Europe: losers' land

Totally off topic, but atleast it has some educational value.

It is so funny reading so many fresh born racists speaking about the "great" deeds of their country. On top of that, i see so fricking much false educated history here, it makes me go vomit.
Oh geez, is this the world of today? Where everyone gets his own portion of truth about the history? You can't be serious about some comments on this thread. They are just so awfully racist, it is incredible. Where did you get those things? Oo

You know, probably one of you even believes in New Schwabenland where the Nazis are sending UFOs all over the world and Hitler still lives. GEeez, get a LITTLE bit of FACTED Education please people :/
Grab a history book and read it. And do not try making up facts of your own, or just because you found them in some internet site. Internet is BAD for educating yourself. Too many people with poor education thinking they are top notch educated are publishing stuff there.

Honestly, i never read so much racist trash as in this thread here for several years :/


/edit:
Being born and living in germany, i often wish that english general had completed his plan about turning germany into one huge natural park. Why? Just for the single reason i would not have been born a german.
You people see, i had no choice to chose the place of my birth. Yet EVERYONE expects me to endure the typical "Nazi" Comment thrown in my face... just for being born in this country. Everyone expects me to feel regret about the crimes "i" died in the second world war. Which crimes did i do again? I wasn't even BORN. Yet i am a criminal in the eyes of most people.
On top of that i'm getting labeled an outcast when i say i have nothing to do with the crimes of the second world war.

Read it:
I did not commit a single racist crime, i did not chose to get born in germany. You can now stop calling me and other similiar persons "nazi".

Chill out, Feli. Nobody is accusing you. For those who lack the knowledge, the Nazi / SS were the German second world war equivilent to the American FBI. Only they where nastier, and ran things more like a military regime, they would kill you if you spoke against them, yes they kill hundred if not thousands of Germans too no just Jews.

"it's purely engineering task, not a scientific breakthrough."

It took a scientific breakthrough for that "enginerring task". Yeesh!

"Some tactics already changed. Strategy lessons were mostly learned from WW2."

No, for modern warfare most tactics were learned in the First Gulf War, Veitnam, etc... The days of WWII style fighting are over. There will no longer be large armies fighting one another. Iraq's army was not large or formidable so cannot even be compared to any of the armies in WWII.

"WW2. Thanks for proving that you don't think about what are you writing once again."

I do think about it. Obviously you don't. WWII nuclear bombs were deliverable ONLY by plane. Today's nuclear weapons can spam the globe. If you don't know how that changes strategy and tactics then you are a lost cause.

"Gorilla warfare? LOL
Guerilla btw. WW2 and earlier."

Nope, most prevailent now with terrorism. You can call it anything you want. But terrorist use those types of tactics. No longer are countries fighting other countries. Now they are fighting organizations and groups. This style of fighting is very effective too, look at Spain leaving the Coalition in Iraq. Look at the way Saddam bought off France, Germany and Russia with oil to stall the UK and the USA from going into Iraq.

"It's not a strategy and not tactics, it's a delivery vehicle. Besides, what's the tactical use of ICBMs? Ok, even strategical one?"

It is a strategy and tactic all its own and it causes a strategy and tactic to counter it. Even now countries are forming new and different ways to counter ICBM's and other long range missiles. The most well known was for short-ranged missiles during the Gulf War, the Patriot Missile. The USA is even now reviving the SDI and creating air-to-air, ground-to-air missle defense systems. If you can't understand how that revolutionizes warfare then you are a lost cause.

"Guidance system, just an improvement for already existing weapons....
Besides, self-guided torpedoes existed during WW2 if i am not mistaken."

There is no point discussing this if you even think current self-guided weapons even remotely are the same as WWII self-guided weapons. That is like calling a calculator a desktop computer...

"Probably that's why you don't know anything about WW2 - you read only USA books about it."

I stand corrected. I am guilty of thinking in an American way just as others here think Eurocentrically. I was wrong and I thank you for showing me that.

"LOL i wrote that just to taunt you. It worked. "

Don't worry, I wrote some of my things to taunt eventhorizon. I will not anymore since he has shown a Nazi flair to his thoughts...

"Like which ones?"

The most obvious one to think of is the Chinese Dynasties during the European Dark ages. They were the first to create steel, to advance enough to get to calculus, trigonometry, etc... They also created medicines that took Europe until the 18th and 19th century to compete with...penicilin not withstanding. Etc...etc... If you want to speak in terms of warfare then know the Chinese Dynasties were the first in all of recorded history to use Psychological Warfare.

"Gave it a glance, nothing special. If you know how to play strategy games, then there is nothing new there. Good for a newcomers who don't have a strategical thinking."

You should read it fully. You will see how much it has influenced you without you even knowing.

"No, i was mistaken. You're a board bull, you see red and CHAAAARGE across your keyboard. So funny "

Yes and no. See, I was bored when I first started responding to all of this. I charged knowing it would cause others to see red. I admit this was quite entertaining and fun until eventhorizon gave a glimpse of his true Nazi self... But oh well...

Besides, Russian team is already in a 10th place after 3 days http://ladder.guildwars.com/ladder.dll?name=Out+Of+Mana
Other Europe, don't fall back! It is time to assault the ladder

I usually refrain from threads like this, because they tend to become a 'who studied history best?' thread. But here i want to make a few remarks, breaking my own rule.
yes, the russians we're lucky. Stalin killed in his paranoia a lot of higher army commanders, which left the army weakened as well as the points the poster pointed out.
However it was also Germany's (read: Hitler) blindless for not adepting. They didn't take care of their long stretched supply lines, and even when commanders in Russia asked for a retreat to regroup, they weren't allowed to retreat. This were 2 major militairy blunders on Germany's side.

As for the:
no, he does not speak for Europe. No one can, just look at the trouble they have for coming to a Constitutional Law .
But that remark is probably generated from a strange behavior on US side i've noticed. Americans seem to regurlary want to remind Europeans that we owe them for bailing us out. A regurlar reminder like that tends to provoke a remark like the one eventhorizon posted. not that i agree with that remark, its trolling.

How come no European knows the reason why Hitler stopped bombing Britain? It is quite simple actually. He needed raw materials, oil and alike to finally strike England in a decisive way. The long air battle had sucked german resources. The only way the Reich could acquire this goal was invading the vast lands of Russia: problem is the operation began too late and russian winter stopped the germans from taking Moscow. What happened later is well known. Everything I just wrote you could easily find in any serious history text, so I'm not playing the part of the smart one at all.

However, I don't like the way this thread is going. I opened it for a GW related issue, not to wake old and pointless nationalisms.

Can we please talk about the "different language districts" and Europe being owned daily in the Tomb of Primeval Kings please?

Thanks

I agree and there have been alot of people already complaining about it on this thread...

Is there an admin in the house??

The Snowman

Well, if people could stop posting OT, there would be no reason to close this thread...otherwise...I'm the one asking it.

back to OP, Europe is winning far more often than they once were. I notice them either holding or contending quite regularly now. I'm 100% in favor of the language districts.

Ill be asking the moderators to get you a ban for that. Pointing out the likelyhood of almost every human being being under Nazi leadership had certain aspects of the second world war not gone the way they did hardly makes me a Nazi.

However I did disagree with you, so I should expect a character assasination.

Your point about Geurilla warfare being used by Terrorists, thus it being modern is amusing. Christians around the time of Nero were hiding out in caves Bin Laden style, although without the rpg's and grenades.

Anyway, any form of warfare used by the USA, regardless of who inveted it, or when, has to be their own modern military work of genius, and any tactic used by a foe, no matter who invented it or when, has to be the work of a modern military genius... lol

Im not a racist, not in the correct meaning of the word. The true racists of this world are the people who are using up everything around them to fulfill their own gluttonous desires, while over half the world starves to death, dies of curable diseases, or has a living standard worse than the domesticated animals of afore mentioned people. The true racists think that is ok.

It amuses me to see how so many people think wealth and military power some how equals high morality, or philosophical integrity. Like the Romans in the past thought, the people living the highest standard of life think they are the highest form of human being. They think they are somehow superior in all aspects, when really all that counts today is money, thus all you need to trick yourself into thinking you are superior is a good job in the right part of the world...

Call me a racist Nazi all you like, I believe in the supremacy of human dignity and consciousness over the evil of gluttony, greed, selfishness and enviromental and species wide rape.

strange.. last time i saw this post it was about game issues, like the districts spreading... in the other hand, i shall give my opinion aswell, i consider myself, more than a european, a human that lives in huge community called world... not part of little countries or squared ideas... and i'm not saying that any group of people with customs, and related history should forget it to join a colectivity like ants... (or the borgs for the ones that saw star trek) but people tend to forget something easily, we all are people... no one is more worth than another, a life, is a life... and btw... i suggest that the tread go back it's main purpose, or get closed at all

not much unity in the european union is there?

Oh my, this comment hit me like head ---> rock. Truly awesome idea. The competition would (could) be ammense.

But, there's ofcourse the obvious problem. What if the big guns simply decided to join the same "organization". It would leave even less competition and frankly I don't see how you could work around that possibility however good an idea it seems.

A few helpful corrections

Yes, a scientific breakthrough that was not performed or funded by any branch of the US government. That was performed by scientists prior to WW2 that all nations hoped to develop, but which the Americans were the first to sucessfully complete.

That tactics and strategy have changed since WW2 is undeniable, over 60 years and plenty of wars have passed but there have been few if any conflicts as revolutionary to tactics and strategy as WW2 in the last century.

You mean using the ICBMs developed by Wernher von Braun the man who made the V1 and V2 and based on these inventions, so absolutely no connection to WW2 then.

Who you are fighting does not necessarily change how you fight them, especially at ground level. As for the comment about Spain, thats a very simple understanding of a very complex issue and really only goes to show your grasp of contempary issues is about the same as your grasp of history. The comments about France et al only go to show any attempt to understand the past is going to be clouded by your current politics.

Patriot missles are really more designed for SRBMs rather than ICBMs and even then the sucess rate is pretty low. Missile defence programs in development at the moment just do not have the capability to defeat massed MIRVed ICBMs they are instead designed to defeat a small number of missiles fired by a technologically inferior enemy. Although ICBMs have revolutionised warfare in the sense it just doesn't happen between states with ICBM capability. But that doesn't really directly change the wars that are fought.

Increasing the accuracy of weapons does allow for a slight change in tactics but hardly a revolutionary one.

Arena net need to understand that there is french people in america also (Montreal and Quebec city for example) ... I woudnt mind at all playing on french servers but for the moment it is impossible to select some with my version.

That is wierd since the manual that came with the game is both in french and english.

And there is tons of players out here, at least one district would be filled.

Anet should probably implement language districts on north america and korea servers. i.e. well, spanish, french, and english for north america.

in the meantime, there should be no problem with you switching from north america server to europe server. switching your lang options to french will automatically put you in the french language districts.
my french is just so so and honestly after all the BS i went thru with draconian language police and Loi 101 in quebec. i am not fond of the language at all and only speak it if i absolutely have to. before the district split, it was often easier to get a french speaking group than an english one so i imagine you would have fun.

Why in a thread about Europe being a loser land in GW do we have a debate about where Alexander the Great was born, who invented the atomic bomb, what affect WW2 has had on the strageys and tatics of todays millitarys, how much people whine, and many other way off topic posts?

Yes I realize that my post is probabily off topic also.

As to what the OT was I'm on the American servers because I live in America and am in a guild with many europeans who are good at PvP and GvG and their main complaint with the european servers was that the people sucked. I wonder if all the good europeans have come to amercian servers because the could find no good people on the euro servers as they had had the same problem and came to america. this creates a cycle with europe becomeing a n00b land with crappy PvP players.

I have only few words to this.
Generalizing is so easy, isn´t it ?

Yes it is and its 0400 were I am and I have a fever of 102 so I'm sorry if I can't provide a better argument at the moment. Now this is just my opinion based on what I have seen and heard I might be compleatly wrong nut who really cares as some of the posts in this thread have been more incorrect than mine by a lot.

IMHO
Everywhere (America, Europe, Korea) are the same sorts of players (good, average and bad - I dont like using the word noob because it seems to be some sort of trend when everybody is using it without regard to themselves).
America and Korea have it much more simplyfied because everyone on their servers speaks the same language.
So, what I am trying to say is that America has much more english speaking players from each of mentioned group. So english speaking people who dont have their guild situated in Europe (or the entire guild agrees to move on other server) just act like this : "Ah, America has much more players and everyone understands one another, lets move there". And this simply means more people for America and even less people who can understand one another for Europe.

Ill provide an example.
Which ice hockey team do you think will win ? The one from America where is huge number of players to choose from or the one where can be the best players from Europe but they won´t understand one another or average players from small european district (lets say France) that have the same language but there is little variety of players that can be used to set up the team ?
(Dont take into consideration that now the pro hockey players speak english as this is not usual in Guild Wars).

I hope you are healthy again soon

At least Europe has it's own server to play on and compete with. Last time I checked, Central-Southern and South-Eastern Asia didn't have it's own server.

I don't understand a word of Korean but I do speak flawless English so I play on the American server.

Maybe I should head to Europe once i've got all my characters fitted out and ready for PvP. I was born and raised in the picket-fenced middle-class suburbs of Sheffield after all.

And how a discussion on the language and game-mechanics induced hinderence of the European advancement in GW went to a minor flame fest on socio-scientific-military history is beyond me.

Fact of the matter is the one thing a poster already pointed out in this thread but nobody listened to him: Europeans should focus on European guilds and not German, Celtic, Finnish etc guilds. It doesnt take very much.

10-15 people who form your GvG pool of competitors. Another 10-15 PvEers who can be used to support GvGers in their grind up to get skills. That's all it takes. And you can't tell me there aren't 30 skilled players from all over Europe who would not be willing to form up for Europe.

For Europe, without the nationality-egotism and language-centricity.

Im trying to do that :P
And when i see another dutch guild, im trying to convince them to join another dutch guild and form one large guild from a country instead of 30 5 man guilds
I realy think it sucks making a guild with only 1 country allowed
Gives u a big penalty ureself cause when you see a good caster, too bad other country than youre guild is

When do you guys play?

I play evenings, and I've never noticed that the servers (there's usually 8 english-language servers, and I normally use whichever I'm sent to, for some reason often #7) are particularly empty. At all places where there's missions there's also always people looking for groups.
I _have_ on a few occasions, at 3-4 in the morning, entered very small towns (like Maguuma Stade or what it's called, in the jungle) and there were only 2-3 people there, it'd have been difficult to get a team of 8 together there and then.

There's always like 200 players in Ascalon and Lions Arch, and perhaps 30-50 in every mission starter town.

Then again, I've never been to the US servers, so perhaps you guys have 200 peeps in every mission starter town. I don't really know what you guys mean by "a lot" or "very few" players.

Anyway, euro players who feel the server is empty should go to server #1. The servers share load, so that you're always automatically directed to the server with the lightest load, but server #1 is normally the one with the most people.

Another thing is if you guys play PvP... Most european players are NOT old beta-players, and are still in the PvE campaign, or just finishing it.
I'm not sure a majority of european players are interested in PvP, I've certainly had no luck getting my mates to even try PvP, but as euro players finish the PvE I expect more will start playing PvP.

Uhm... you should start to learn more about history... Wernher von Braun... does that name sound familiar? Ooh ofcourse, he was that european (German to be exact) dude, who built the A-Bomb for the Americans! So stop babbling rubbish and accept the facts! Not that the Europeans should be proud of that, as the A-Bomb will kill the entire human race somewhen in future

LOL!
Werner von Braun spent WW2 working for the Germans, building V2 rockets.

The americans basically kidnapped him at the end of the war, giving him the choice of either being tried and hanged for war crimes, or working for them. He's the father of the US space program, but he had little or nothing to do with the A-bomb.

Insomuch as any single person out of the thousands who worked on Project Manhattan can be said to be the father of the a-bomb, it'd have to be Robert Oppenheimer.

This region thing is the only aspect in GW I absolutely dislike. Why can't they just put people into districts where other people are instead of forcing them to play in a specific region? I sometimes play at times where not too many other people in Europe seem to play. This means I have to solo pretty much everything with henchies because it's next to impossible to form a group during these times. Knowing that other regions might be full of players at the same moment sucks...

Also I don't care much for PvP and the one thing I can't understand is why a PvE aspect of the game (Fissure) has to be dependent on a PvP aspect? It shouldn't be that way, IMHO. PvP and PvE are two different things. That's bad especially if you are in Europe and NEVER seem to have favor. At most times favor goes from Korea directly to America. Sometimes Europe will get favor of course, but until you port to Temple and form a team it might be already gone again, for EU can't seem to hold it for long. And I still don't care about that, I just want to go explore Fissure whenever I want to, that's all!

I really would like to be able to swap regions as much as I want to, so I can find other players to form groups with even when playing in non primetime hours. If the favor thing currently prevents ANet to do so, well, change it! And yes, I am tempted to permanently move my home to USA as well, because this situation just sucks.

Since the day I opened this thread the situation has improved a little bit. Europe has favor more often, most of the times between 3 and 10 pm, thanks to pro guilds like The Valandor, RusCorp or Out Of Mana. The problem is, only top european guilds can stand a chance out there, while many american or korean PuGs do very well in many cases. European PUGs are the worst example of GW pvp EVER.

I still think that the districts division is cutting Europe out from the real game. It's even difficult to play PvE decently sometimes, because districts are almost empty later in the game, and when they're not, you'll find people that don't have a slight idea on how to play.

I would like to thank all of you for the one thing in the past few years that has made me feel good about being Americain again.

And Fantus, change your name to Danielle, would you? :P

I foresaw this issue (as did many others) and thus never joined Europe at all. I don't see a reason to stay on Europe. If you all get on America we could all have favor more often and you wouldn't have problems finding people to play with. Only nationalism or stubbornness would keep you on Europe.

I live in England and immediatly changed to american servers.....atleast they have a chance of getting favour.

Well, lack of English language skills would, too.
Also what currently keeps me from doing so is that it's often nighttime in the US when I am playing. I might just exchange empty EU servers for empty US servers...
But yes, if scores of EU players would start to flock to US servers, this might send some kind of message to ANet that something seriously is wrong with that region (mis)concept of theirs...

...btw. I am playing since 8 hours staight now, and Korea holds the HoH in all that time now. So, no, I don't think that this situation has improved much...

Not true. You'll find a reasonable number of people on the american servers even when time zones are completely different.

Or timezone??

I play on Europe mostly weeknights and evenings and most of the time never have an issue finding group or pvp match. The cities are always pretty lively and there is a good level of trade and banter!

Also on Europe you a pretty much guarenteed not to get questions like
"Europeshire? Where's that, near Boston?", "Aren't you over the dateline, what month is it there?" or comments like "Wow, you English is really good"

And with reagrds to HoH Pwnership, I went to the ToA for the 1st time this week and enter just as Europe won favour of the gods...Awesome!

The best thing of all about Europe is that there seem to be far less 'l33t kidz' around, most groups (in the English districts anyway) are pretty polite and tend to know what they are doing. You still get idiots, but at least they tend to not be abusive.

Tombs is a prime example, the US teams are generally plain rude (the koreans might be as well, i can't read korean) and if I were on their team I'd be embarassed to say the least.

That many americans are rude is a known issue. Since this is a game though, I prefer non-nice people who know how to play, rather than nice people who don't even have an idea of how Healing Seed works.

Besides, have you played with german/french/italian kids? They're no better than their american counterpart.

yep. that`s what keeps me away from playing on us server

most american guys i met in mmorpgs seem to like trashtalking, bragging and insulting more than anything else ...

btw i`m european and stubborn so you will see me fighting for euro teams in pvp very often.

now that my dsl is fixed and doesn´t crash always anymore i made some PuGs during the weekend and did very well (got about a dozen times into hoh but couldn´t win it. but went from 78 fame to 230 on the way )

today i had a very good PuG. but 3 korean teams teamed up in the 6 teams map (after we killed one korean team) and beat us (ok, it was an epic fight lasting 20 mins with lots of deads and fun, but still a pity to get killed this way when you have a real good PuG )

and such things happened very often the last days.

but sooner or later one of the PuGs i join will win the HoH - even if whole Korea and USA should ally against us

I agree. I am an American who served in the military and spent two very cool years in Germany. The anti Germany crap is mostly from immature brats.

Also, a lot of Americans, including me, are from German descent. So I hope you, and other Euro's don't mistakenly stereotype us Americans as being hate mongers, that simply is not true. There are just a minority of loud hateful punks who have nothing better to do than insult people. But hey, they insult everyone, not just you.

That said, I feel for ya. I think they should limit Europe's districts into the main 2-3 languages, not for every country. Most Euro's speak multiple languages anyway...

Is there any online statistics on GW? Like, the last week Korea has held HoH x hours, America y hours, and English-speaking-europe z hours?

Hey,

I myself am an Europian, and the language district seems to be actually helpfull as when while you are actually waiting you start talking a bit with your current teammembers and create a better bond and thus you will achieve better teamplay. Also people become more patient and don't really care the 10 seconds extra delay cause one is currently selling some loot or setting up skills. This actually gives better results in later missions. (unless you have a bad combination of professions which does happen)

Also the language district pulls members from other districts that also know English (people that come there allready have a better attitude cause they want to speak another language then their primair language. Also people that learned how to speak another language are generally more mature as you don't learn a second language when you are 13.)

But offcourse not everyone knows English and that can sometimes tend to make players of same skill miss eachother and not form the great guild for HoH. That in combination of the lack of players in one district will be quite bad for Europe's HoH favour.

For now, soon most Europian countries will have holidays instead of exams and this will probably also help the Europians get more favour of the Gods. I'm going to go for it anywayz