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Saerden

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 15:45 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

so you're happy that they've rewarded you for not being any good at the game? The game is supposed to be tough...you're supposed to have to try things multiple times...you shouldn't be able to just rush your way through the game.

hehe i had to smile

being good at a game = start bot, go out, hope you dont get banned

No really, i can understand that the PvE may seem easy to some. A Hell difficuly might solve this.
Or filling every mission with mobs so that you no longer can see the ground.

Twilight Doll

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 15:46 - 122

From reading a thread such as this one, I can only imagine the type of pressure built up for the developers. Every time they release a patch, I'm sure they conduct orderly discussion and execution.

I think the new SoC system implementation was a wonderful idea. In response to those that think it takes away the sense of accomplishment, (I could be totally off on this but after thinking about it,) I think it has something to do with insecurity in one way or another. You liked being one of the few who had the elite skill and now it's going to be just as easy for the rest to capture the skill. I think that it isn't the same as just allowing you to purchase the skill through a skill trainer. You still have to go through the trouble of getting to the target's location and decease the boss. As you know having an elite skill has it advantages. Does it suck now that there is a higher risk that you run into an opponent who has one that you consider uber and now is a challenge to you? If the game initially had this system for SoC, I'm sure we would have far many less complainers. People just don't like change sometimes whether it's good or bad because of a convenience issue. For those who just like to PvE, I don't know what to say other than the game was largely based on PvP as others have stated. I do enjoy both aspects of the game.

I personally think Anet is doing a wonderful job. The game has only been officially out for a litte over a month and they've already made numerous tweaks and changes. It'll be a matter of time before things start to iron out. Any changes to the game can always be adjusted. You can only expect for them to test, apply, and gather data (the players), unless you'd rather have no change. But that's what we're all here for right? To express our opinion. I respect everyone's opinions however I do not agree with some.

Envy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

QQ

Mo/Me

09 Jun 2005 at 16:13 - 123

First off I read every post here. Alot of the hurray's I just don't understand. How is increasing monster diifficulty and making drops less reducing the grind exactly? It's not. It adds more. Now I have to work 10 times as hard to unlock stupid runes that earlier farmers got off of easy street. I have to work 20 times harder to be able to afford things like weapons I must buy off people now because they don't drop. Not to mention it will ALWAYS be the same farmers selling them for a huge price since the made their million plat before all the nerfs.

Every single thing that has come out over the patches has benefitted the early farmers and screwed the new players. I could have bought half the superior runes in Lions arch for the same amount as the new merchants. I still can't afford 80k for a superior vigor rune. The price of sigils is still 60k + even after the "sigil" patch. Runes will now sell unidentified from the "farmers" who unlocked them all early for more then the npc merchant sells regular ones for.

Want to truly "reduce the grind and farmers" Arena Net? Make drops 10X more common. That will kill all the insane prices of farmers plus make it easy to unlock all the junk for pvp characters. There you go. Problem fixed and we can all get on with our pvp. No need to farm anymore because everything will be common.

I just finished Iron Mines and Thunderhead Keep with a full group of players. I didnt see not 1 yellow fall and only saw 1 purple armor. The 2 blues I got, yes 2 blues in 2 missions, were both crap I could have gotten outside of lions arch. WOW this is so much better! I only have to run through missions 50 times now to have a chance at unlocking a major rune!

Okra

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

VOD - Victory or Death

N/Mo

09 Jun 2005 at 16:34 - 124

Nice patch, I guess.

Really pisses me off that I did Galrath just last weekend, and now they've upped it to 4000 xp. Lame. Would be nice to get a chunk of that to get another attribute point.

My suggestion: allow players that have already done that quest to be able to do Villiany of Galrath again.
If that is in the next patch, I would be impressed.

I'm not holding my breath.

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 16:38 - 125

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

hehe i had to smile

being good at a game = start bot, go out, hope you dont get banned

No really, i can understand that the PvE may seem easy to some. A Hell difficuly might solve this.
Or filling every mission with mobs so that you no longer can see the ground.

you keep talking about bots...who cares if people that want to cheat have an easy time with the game...they're cheating, IT'LL NEVER BE DIFFICULT FOR THEM....I'm talking about the people that actually want to play it.

I'm going back to console....online games aren't worth the money.

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

09 Jun 2005 at 16:39 - 126

i wish i can come to town and start a huge war with other players!! or join the darkside of the charrs

Pyrthas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Me/

09 Jun 2005 at 17:05 - 127

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobum

This is exactly what I don't understand. (and this isn't directed at you personally Moo)

Isn't the idea about build your character to put in a little work, time and effort and "building your character"? If someone can put in 3 hours a day and you only 2, how is it unfair that he may find better stuff or have more experience than you? If you don't want to put in any time to build a good character then why not play something like Unreal Tournament? You don't have to spend any time there to get an uber character with uber weapons. I just don't get it.

These are probably the same people who, when they were little kids, had to be given a gift at their siblings birthday party to keep them quiet because "Well if Johnny is getting presents then I want one too - that's not fair...."

See, Guild Wars is supposed to be a game in which you don't have to grind to be good. You don't have to put in lots of time to be good. You have to be good to be good. You have to have skill to be good. That's the whole point of trying to build a game without the grind; the fun is supposed to come from the gameplay itself (and strategy revolving around that gameplay).

Why not play something like UT? Because the gameplay in GW is very different. But GW shares a lot more with games like UT than it does with games like WoW. A whole lot. In GW, effectiveness is supposed to be about skill (skill in skill selection, skill in team building, skill in strategy and tactics), not about time devoted to the game. Of course, time spent playing means more experience with the game, which often translates into higher skill, but it isn't anything like "more time = better chance of getting good items = more effective character." Or at least, that's not what it's supposed to be like.

Lymix

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Kansas City

W/R

09 Jun 2005 at 17:40 - 128

I would have to agree with the minority on the issue of new changes to the Signet of Capture. Making elite skills difficult to aquire from bosses is what made them "elite". Now that you're able to pick the one you want off of the mob's lifeless body makes them just as easy to aquire as if you learned them from a Skills trainer. Time to rename them from "Elite" to something more appropriate.

nechronius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Southern Cali

Herald of the Storm

W/R

09 Jun 2005 at 17:55 - 129

Reduction of the grind is a POSITIVE thing. Not having to lather, rinse, repeat every boss to attain that elusive skill is a GOOD thing. Spend your hours elsewhere, like crafting a new, oddball but interesting character or perfecting your PvP game.

People who complain about the new capture system being too easy have probably already invested dozens, if not hundreds, of hours grinding to attain a handful of elite skills. Now you begrudge the rest who either don't have the Time or energy to spend doing the same thing over and over to attain the same thing you have. It's called sour grapes, so get over it. Or gather up your toys, get out of the playground, and go home.

NilePenguin

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

The edge of insanity.

Flying Purple Hippos

Me/

09 Jun 2005 at 17:55 - 130

Lymix, one question: Ever tried to capture the mesmer skill 'echo' before the changes?

One of the following things would happen, always:
- The mob dies to the Jade Bows right next to them;
- The mob dies to your henchies before casting Echo;
- The mob dies to the Ether Seal;
- The mob dies even before you arrive, to god-knows-what;
- You die because you try to get the mob away from the Jades and the Ether tower;
- You die because you ignore the jades and run towards the mob as soon as possible, hoping to catch an early Echo.

It was a tedious hell. There's more skills that were hell to get, for mutliple reason (Battle Rage, anyone?). Besides, how much fun is it to be forced to try a million times to find and capture from a single mob, just to be competitive in PvP?

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 18:01 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

Reduction of the grind is a POSITIVE thing. Not having to lather, rinse, repeat every boss to attain that elusive skill is a GOOD thing. Spend your hours elsewhere, like crafting a new, oddball but interesting character or perfecting your PvP game.

People who complain about the new capture system being too easy have probably already invested dozens, if not hundreds, of hours grinding to attain a handful of elite skills. Now you begrudge the rest who either don't have the Time or energy to spend doing the same thing over and over to attain the same thing you have. It's called sour grapes, so get over it. Or gather up your toys, get out of the playground, and go home.

I'm only a level 13....I'm not even 1/3 of the way through the game yet....I still believe this patch was a bad fix....aimed at appeasing the players who want instant gratification.

however, I'm not going to say that it will change the game play dynamics enough to make me not like the game...I'm just saying that at this early stage of the game...it doesn't look as though I'll enjoy the game for much longer. Getting an elite skill simply by doing my given task...doesn't make the skill elite. If everyone has it....how is it elite?

dansamy

Chasing Dragons

Join Date: May 2005

Lost in La-La Land

LFGuild

Mo/Me

09 Jun 2005 at 18:05 - 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

Grab some friends and go compete in the Tournament. Riches, fame and fun beyond your wildest dreams await you. Now don't say you'd rather farm than do that.

Bull$#it! For weeks we've all heard the PvPers complain that there is no monetary reward in the Tombs other than the Sigil drop, and those prices are dropping. Nevermind the fact that you can play Tombs for hours without winning one darn thing that will net you the gold you need to pay for 15 plat armor.

nechronius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Southern Cali

Herald of the Storm

W/R

09 Jun 2005 at 18:10 - 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I'm only a level 13....I'm not even 1/3 of the way through the game yet....I still believe this patch was a bad fix....aimed at appeasing the players who want instant gratification.

however, I'm not going to say that it will change the game play dynamics enough to make me not like the game...I'm just saying that at this early stage of the game...it doesn't look as though I'll enjoy the game for much longer. Getting an elite skill simply by doing my given task...doesn't make the skill elite. If everyone has it....how is it elite?

I have several characters going through the game. The highest is in the desert now moving toward ascension with the lowest in Lion's Arch. The game is certainly still challenging enough without having to repeat areas over and over to attain one skill. Some of the bosses are probably in out-of-the-way areas, maybe two warps away from the nearest town. There are plenty of skills out there you will need to unlock by taking a class you may not normally take.

I don't know where you're at now in the game, but at level 13 the odds are you haven't even seen your first elite skill in use yet by a boss. I'm actually surprised at your judgement of their new system without having tried it yet. That is, unless you have.

dansamy

Chasing Dragons

Join Date: May 2005

Lost in La-La Land

LFGuild

Mo/Me

09 Jun 2005 at 18:11 - 134

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrthas

Here's the thing, though. GW was never supposed to be a game in which you were to spend countless hours striving to make your character the best it could be. It's supposed to be relatively easy to get things like elites and good weapons. Grinding for those improvements for your character is precisely the grind that Anet wants to get rid of.

Not really. You're supposed to be able to compete in PvE, too. I think that part of the problem is that people equate PvE and grinding. That's not what it's supposed to be in GW. You say that they need to be careful with changing PvE. I agree. But PvE content in GW isn't farming and getting better loot. PvE should be not entirely unlike PvP in GW; both depend a great deal on planning and not as much on how long you've spent hunting down the best stuff. Giving PvEers better stuff doesn't screw up Anet's vision any more than giving PvPers better stuff does, because in neither case is it supposed to be a peron's items/unlocked skills/unlocked runes that determines his or her success.

Requiring people to spend hours farming to get good stuff for PvE goes against Anet's concept of this game for exactly the same reason that requiring people to spend hours farming to get good stuff for PvP does. PvE and PvP are not suppoosed to be playstyles as distinct as people seem to want them to be.

Has this all been said before? Well, yeah, but it still doesn't seem to have sunk in. Also, I'm procrastinating.

But I've written way more than I should, so I'll stop.

Well that's just great that they don't want there to be a grind, but I have played the entire storyline without amassing the wealth needed to craft armor at 15 plat per piece. Much less having the crafting materials on top of the plat. If they don't want there to be a grind, then drops need increasing, not decreasing. Now, all they've done is make it harder for me to get the plat and materials I need to craft my last armor set.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

09 Jun 2005 at 18:12 - 135

It's not about people annoyed at this change for SoC because they felt like one of the special few who got elites. For one, I don't have ANY elites, and I'd still rather the old SoC system. Same with the rune trader. It was a nice addition and if it's the way the other dude said it is (it practically being the middle man instead of the "WTS X RUNE OF X X" all over the place), then I'm fine with it.

I have seen many of you say it yourself, that the runes and upgrades and such aren't really UBER as per say because the game is balanced. What is wrong with having things that give you even the slightest edge in PvP if you want to put the effort into it? Having all the runes, elites and weapon parts wont assure you victory at all. So what the hell is up with people pointing the finger and saying that the people who don't welcome this change are stuck in an old mentality? That's an old mentality in itself with this game.

Putting time and effort into PvP will increase your skill (possibly, you could just really suck) some faster then others. Putting time and effort into customising your character should also yield it's own rewards. As I said, putting uber everthing possible for your character on it will not assure you victory, it will give you the slightest edge. Of course someone with decent skill can use that edge to their advantage. If you're good at the game, your opponent with everything possible to make his character tougher/stronger will not even phase you.

Saerden

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 18:17 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lymix

I would have to agree with the minority on the issue of new changes to the Signet of Capture. Making elite skills difficult to aquire from bosses is what made them "elite". Now that you're able to pick the one you want off of the mob's lifeless body makes them just as easy to aquire as if you learned them from a Skills trainer. Time to rename them from "Elite" to something more appropriate.

Do the elite skills make you elite? If not, the label was wrong from the very beginning.

*edit: In GW, the unique item you and noone else has is the top spot on the ladder. If you want hard to get, elite rewards that affect pvp, and that can only a minority can attain, then its either you or us. Take over the game of leave. There will be no truce.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

09 Jun 2005 at 18:19 - 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by NilePenguin

Lymix, one question: Ever tried to capture the mesmer skill 'echo' before the changes?

One of the following things would happen, always:
- The mob dies to the Jade Bows right next to them;
- The mob dies to your henchies before casting Echo;
- The mob dies to the Ether Seal;
- The mob dies even before you arrive, to god-knows-what;
- You die because you try to get the mob away from the Jades and the Ether tower;
- You die because you ignore the jades and run towards the mob as soon as possible, hoping to catch an early Echo.

It was a tedious hell. There's more skills that were hell to get, for mutliple reason (Battle Rage, anyone?). Besides, how much fun is it to be forced to try a million times to find and capture from a single mob, just to be competitive in PvP?

"Hey, I'll just wander up to the lifeless body of this boss which was killed before I got here and cycle through his skills, hey look an elite! I'll take that."

gg wp

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

People who complain about the new capture system being too easy have probably already invested dozens, if not hundreds, of hours grinding to attain a handful of elite skills.

And now that time and effort means nothing.

Quote:

Do the elite skills make you elite? If not, the label was wrong from the very beginning.

LMAO! Because what a skill is labelled, defines what you are right?

The skill is called elite, because the skill is elite. Not so any more though, now you shop through and grab what you want. Because we all know how uber tough bosses are right?

joeljermon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 18:23 - 138

They're called elite because you can only have one in the skill bar, not because they were a pain to get. They've been called that since the early betas, when they were bought from trainers just like normal skills. And if you hadn't captured a single elite, then you can't really make a judgement on the new system. The old system was fundamentally flawed in many ways. For example, capturing stances was just a matter of spamming the SoC again and again.

Saerden

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 18:26 - 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeljermon

They're called elite because you can only have one in the skill bar, not because they were a pain to get.

Hey, thats true and makes sense, stop it.

15k armors are: unique (not everyone has them) and a pain to get (lots of gold if you were not farming). Happy now? Oh wait, they dont make you better at all. .. what a waste.

Lymix

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Kansas City

W/R

09 Jun 2005 at 18:26 - 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by NilePenguin

Lymix, one question: Ever tried to capture the mesmer skill 'echo' before the changes?

One of the following things would happen, always:
- The mob dies to the Jade Bows right next to them;
- The mob dies to your henchies before casting Echo;
- The mob dies to the Ether Seal;
- The mob dies even before you arrive, to god-knows-what;
- You die because you try to get the mob away from the Jades and the Ether tower;
- You die because you ignore the jades and run towards the mob as soon as possible, hoping to catch an early Echo.

It was a tedious hell. There's more skills that were hell to get, for mutliple reason (Battle Rage, anyone?). Besides, how much fun is it to be forced to try a million times to find and capture from a single mob, just to be competitive in PvP?

To answer your question, no haven't tried to capture that skill. Sounds like it was a real pain in the arse to get it.. but I imagine it felt really good when you finally DID capture that skill. It is called "Elite" for a reason. Or rather it was...

I'm very aware that there can be multiple ways to look at the changes that ANet decided to make to the SoC. Part of me is relieved that I won't have to try, try again to get that special skill like I did with Earth Shaker (I'm a hammer user).. Between my henchies killing the boss first, or the boss *using* the skill to knock me down and interupt my capture attempt, it was a real pain to get from him! But at the same time, part of me is saddened by the fact that these elite skills will now be commonplace by taking out the challenge of their acquisition.

That being said, I imagine opinions on this matter will be wide and diverse and I readily accept that not all will share this point of view.

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 18:29 - 141

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

I have several characters going through the game. The highest is in the desert now moving toward ascension with the lowest in Lion's Arch. The game is certainly still challenging enough without having to repeat areas over and over to attain one skill. Some of the bosses are probably in out-of-the-way areas, maybe two warps away from the nearest town. There are plenty of skills out there you will need to unlock by taking a class you may not normally take.

I don't know where you're at now in the game, but at level 13 the odds are you haven't even seen your first elite skill in use yet by a boss. I'm actually surprised at your judgement of their new system without having tried it yet. That is, unless you have.

I haven't yet....which is why I'm not saying that the patch will change the game play dynamics...though I do get a sense of accomplishment out of attaining a skill that takes effort and numerous attempts. and from what I've gathered elite skills used to require this. I was looking forward to attempting to achieve them...now all I have to do is slaughter the boss and select it,.

Twilight Doll

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 18:33 - 142

Quote:

They're called elite because you can only have one in the skill bar, not because they were a pain to get.

To further embelish this statement, they are elite because there would be too much imbalance if these elite skills weren't restricted to 1 spot on your skill bar.

And to further comment on the SoC, I didn't feel a sense a accomplishment when I obtained elite skills the old way. Instead I felt like it was a pain in the arse, and when I finally did capture a skill, it was a relief so I can move onto doing something else.

Witt78

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 18:36 - 143

Quote refers to the Skill Capture Signet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aetherfukz

Best. Change. Ever.

Earlier, I heard somebody talking about a possible problem with this change.

Basicly he stated that killing some Bosses will trigger a Cinematic scene that will trigger the end of the mission.

Now. In my mind, that doesn't PROVE there is a problem. The patch also added more boss NPC's to a lot of zones. Perhaps you can get the elite skills on those NPC's...

But if the skill is on a boss that triggers the end of that mission....

Just my 2 Cents. Love the patch!

-Witt78

nechronius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Southern Cali

Herald of the Storm

W/R

09 Jun 2005 at 18:40 - 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

And now that time and effort means nothing.

Like I said, sour grapes. Hundreds of hours that you deem "wasted" because now the same feat can be done a few dozen, and somehow you feel that the rest of us aren't worthy unless we go through the same agony you did.

Look on the bright side. The sacrifice you made clearly demonstrated that the old system was horribly broken enough to warrant a change. We lesser mortals who will not have to endure the same horrible fate thank your pioneering work. I'll buy you a pint if you're ever in my neck of the woods.

Unless you're not old enough. Then you might have to settle for something else.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

09 Jun 2005 at 18:49 - 145

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeljermon

They're called elite because you can only have one in the skill bar, not because they were a pain to get. They've been called that since the early betas, when they were bought from trainers just like normal skills. And if you hadn't captured a single elite, then you can't really make a judgement on the new system. The old system was fundamentally flawed in many ways. For example, capturing stances was just a matter of spamming the SoC again and again.

Thankyou for assuming I have no idea what I'm talking about. I mean, just from that post alone I think I can safely assume you think in absolutes. Me not capturing an elite = me having never tried. The SoC system not being frustrating = pathetically easy ( you may as well throw them in shops then ).

Enough with the personal attacking though. What I am complaining about is that the system went from one extreme to another. I *think* many of you would agree if it was made instead to be easy, keep it as the old system but make it more that if the boss has used the elite so far that you can capture it from then on in that instance, while it's still alive though. Perhaps even lengthening the time between skills, making them cast it more often and showing stances up would be another idea. Yet another one could possibly make the SoC a hex of some kind, whenever the boss casts the elite, while that hex is on it, you capture it.

That's three ideas I grabbed off the top of my head that could keep the difficulty of capturing from being so patheticlly easy and possibly get rid of the frustration involved in the old system. I had nothing against the old system and would be open to a change to make it less frustrating for others. But not at this cost.

I haven't got any elites, I have tried to obtain some (nothing incredibly nessecary for my build though) and have come to the realisation long ago that:

I DON'T NEED THOSE ELITES TO BE GOOD IN PVP IN FACT YOU CAN IGNORE THEM ALL TOGETHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR THEM BECAUSE I'M SURE IF YOU'RE CRAP AT PVP IT WILL INCREASE YOUR SKILL TEN FOLD!

nechronius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Southern Cali

Herald of the Storm

W/R

09 Jun 2005 at 18:56 - 146

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I haven't yet....which is why I'm not saying that the patch will change the game play dynamics...though I do get a sense of accomplishment out of attaining a skill that takes effort and numerous attempts. and from what I've gathered elite skills used to require this. I was looking forward to attempting to achieve them...now all I have to do is slaughter the boss and select it,.

You make it sound like you can just waltz right into an area and kill a boss and take his loot. He's still going to fight you for it.

You may still end up doing it numerous Times before you're successful anyway.

Just try it first and withold judgement until afterwards.

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 18:59 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

You make it sound like you can just waltz right into an area and kill a boss and take his loot. He's still going to fight you for it.

You may still end up doing it numerous Times before you're successful anyway.

Just try it first and withold judgement until afterwards.

I'm not judging this specific patch. I bought this game for the PvE aspect....and from what I can see looking through the updates that have taken place thus far...ArenaNet is changing the gameplay dynamic to appease to the PvP players that just want all the elite weapons/skills/runes/vigors...and don't want to have to work for them. And unfortunately for me...that's not what I paid for.

When this game because Guild Wars:Counter Strike....even the PvPers won't like it....for at that point they'll start dealing with hackers.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

09 Jun 2005 at 19:03 - 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

Like I said, sour grapes. Hundreds of hours that you deem "wasted" because now the same feat can be done a few dozen, and somehow you feel that the rest of us aren't worthy unless we go through the same agony you did.

No I don't expect people to waste hundreds of hours because I don't deem them worthy enough. But I mean, the people who did spend a hundred hours to accomplish all that really worked for it and now you don't have to put any effort at all into it. Bosses are childs play to kill. Keeping them alive to steal a skill takes a bit more effort. A system which requires you to actually CAPTURE the skill instead of looting it (which the SoC should now be changed to SoL) making sure it's hard enough to put a decent effort in, but easy enough to make sure it's not entirely impossible or close to it to capture.

If the boss was getting attacked by other mobs, move the boss. If stances don't show up, make them show up. If they cast a spell too quickly after they cast their elite, change it to make them wait a decent amount of time to capture. As you all seem to be quoting, this is a game that rewards player skill, what is more rewarding then capturing an elite which requires skill (keep him alive) and not time played (not repeating it over and over because it's impossible to get the skill with that set of circumstances in that instance)?

Really, you may as well just throw an elite skill trader in town with this new system.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

09 Jun 2005 at 19:07 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

You make it sound like you can just waltz right into an area and kill a boss and take his loot. He's still going to fight you for it.

Oh but that's what the system is, you can just waltz in there and kill him then take his skills like loot. Of course he's going to fight you for it, but it's really not that hard to take him down. To me, bosses are just like regular mobs, just with a bit more armour/hp and they can heal themselves. Whoopdedoo.

Envy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

QQ

Mo/Me

09 Jun 2005 at 19:23 - 150

I have 3 toons in the ring of fire and 1 finished with the missons. A w/mo, e/mo, mo/me, and a r/me. I have captured elites on all of them to include stances like Charge, Victory is Mine, Bulls Charge, Escape, Marksmens Wager, Energy Drain etc etc. I have alot of the elites unlocked and never had a huge problem with it. In fact a majority were done with the henchmen before the infuse upgrade. I don't think of myself as a elitest or a great gamer. I also didn't have a major problem capturing anything that wasn't of my own making.

Now I have gone out today to grab a few more elites. It's my opinion that it was easier to capture them before. Most the bosses I captured from I never killed. Take Energy Drain for example. I went in with one other player and six henchmen. Ran over to the boss and drained the crapola out of his energy while barely staying alive. He casted, I got, and I died. Wham, two people got it in less then 5 minutes from start to finish. If we had to kill him we would be screwed and doing what most of you have been doing. That being getting almost a full group to capture elites or trying to get them during a mission. Either way it's a bad idea.

Also note on the stances and instant casts that you could just tap the button again or move to stop the capture. If the boss hasn't seemed to cast anything in 5-6 seconds, chances are he used the skill and you can get it anytime before he starts his next skill. I just don't see where all the whine was coming from on elites. Even on my monk, most group were nice enough to save the boss till last or someone would take over healing while I captured.

viet

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

cali, usa

The Samurai Demons

Mo/W

09 Jun 2005 at 19:36 - 151

if you're goin to ad Ale ton the game, u might as well make it so it helps u take damage better in a fight. adds interest to the game. i'm not condoning getting drunk in real life.

galrath. his infamy is so great that they increased the bounty on his head from 400xp to 4000xp! authorities were not aware before how dificult it was to get to him, hence the increase in xp. when galrath was 500xp, i basicaly went back to do it when i was higher level.

the more time u put into the game, your char, the better.

if they wanted to eliminate farming. they can have no monsters, or harder monsters the 2nd time the player went to that area, thus forcing the char to move to another area...

anet has to go with the majority i suppose. i was goin to switch to D&D online but they have a monthly fee. so i'm stuck with GWs for now.

i think u would make kids appreciate PvP more if they had to do more PvE. whats the fun in having a lvl 20 char handed to u in seconds?

& anet's response that not buying the expansion won't hinder your character? thats funny. i wont be gettin the xpansion if this game keeps gettin easier for 11 yr olds.
maybe they should make a section for 18+.

there is no grind. i find it fun to repeat missions. i always see somethin diferent each time. i thought i was kind of silly to do 5 infusion runs, so i jus did 3 then went to another area, or started a new character. then a few days later, i went back for another 2 infuse runs =) was fun as hell!

Saerden

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

09 Jun 2005 at 19:51 - 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by viet

the more time u put into the game, your char, the better.

i think u would make kids appreciate PvP more if they had to do more PvE. whats the fun in having a lvl 20 char handed to u in seconds?

& anet's response that not buying the expansion won't hinder your character? thats funny. i wont be gettin the xpansion if this game keeps gettin easier for 11 yr olds.
maybe they should make a section for 18+.

http://pc.gamezone.com/news/03_09_04_11_19AM.htm

ibex333

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Brooklyn, NY

[EYE]

Rt/A

09 Jun 2005 at 20:02 - 153

I do not think that the Signet of Capture Update was a good idea. It was easy enough to capture skills already. I never ever failed to capture a skill. Not even once. You can get offended, but I must honestly say that anyone who had trouble capturing skills has BAD REFLEXES. No I'm not saying this to put someone down, but you got to face facts. I used to like the idea of a CHALLANGE to capture skills. It was the difference between people like me who had the elite skills, and people who couldnt obtain them. Now, this challange is taken away, and if everyone starts going this route, then this game will become too easy. It's like giving 15k armor and storm bows to everyone just because they say it is too hard to get them.
Again, this is only my opinion, and I do not wish to offend anyone.

Lymix

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Kansas City

W/R

09 Jun 2005 at 20:13 - 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

I do not think that the Signet of Capture Update was a good idea. It was easy enough to capture skills already. I never ever failed to capture a skill. Not even once. You can get offended, but I must honestly say that anyone who had trouble capturing skills has BAD REFLEXES. No I'm not saying this to put someone down, but you got to face facts. I used to like the idea of a CHALLANGE to capture skills. It was the difference between people like me who had the elite skills, and people who couldnt obtain them. Now, this challange is taken away, and if everyone starts going this route, then this game will become too easy. It's like giving 15k armor and storm bows to everyone just because they say it is too hard to get them.
Again, this is only my opinion, and I do not wish to offend anyone.

Well if you really want to avoid offending people you could start off with not telling people who have had to work for their skill captures that they basically suck because they couldn't do it in one try

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

09 Jun 2005 at 20:16 - 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

I do not think that the Signet of Capture Update was a good idea. It was easy enough to capture skills already. I never ever failed to capture a skill. Not even once. You can get offended, but I must honestly say that anyone who had trouble capturing skills has BAD REFLEXES. No I'm not saying this to put someone down, but you got to face facts. I used to like the idea of a CHALLANGE to capture skills. It was the difference between people like me who had the elite skills, and people who couldnt obtain them. Now, this challange is taken away, and if everyone starts going this route, then this game will become too easy. It's like giving 15k armor and storm bows to everyone just because they say it is too hard to get them.
Again, this is only my opinion, and I do not wish to offend anyone.

No, I agree with you entirely. Supposed to reward the player skill, with what? The old SoC system rewarded your skill and effort with an elite. Now you don't have to put any skill and effort to get the elite. The sigils I believe shouldn't be able to be traded but actually won in the HoH. The whole concept of earning a sigil, which was a reward for player skill to get a guild hall (the king or whatever of Kryta would offer you an island for your guild hall if you produced a sigil which proved you worth enough to actually have one) so then GvG would be between players of actual skill.

The people who say that introducing an influx of a bunch of people into the GvG will solve it being stagnant at the top. No it wont. You will have people not worthy enough to EARN a sigil being completely dominated by those who earned theirs.

My guild hasn't got one yet, but we have all in unision agreed that it must be earned and not bought.

ibex333

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Brooklyn, NY

[EYE]

Rt/A

09 Jun 2005 at 20:26 - 156

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

Reduction of the grind is a POSITIVE thing. Not having to lather, rinse, repeat every boss to attain that elusive skill is a GOOD thing. Spend your hours elsewhere, like crafting a new, oddball but interesting character or perfecting your PvP game.

People who complain about the new capture system being too easy have probably already invested dozens, if not hundreds, of hours grinding to attain a handful of elite skills. Now you begrudge the rest who either don't have the Time or energy to spend doing the same thing over and over to attain the same thing you have. It's called sour grapes, so get over it. Or gather up your toys, get out of the playground, and go home.

Heh.. Sour grapes?? You dont have the time or energy to spend doing the same thing over and over to attein the same thing I have?? THEN DONT PLAY THE GAME. Go play UT or Battlefield instead.
Yes I did spend a lot of time and energy to have what I got. And it pisses me off to see people getting this stuff without a problem now. It was what made this game interesting in the 1st place. I'm glad I have the time to play this game now, but when I'll get a descent job, I'll simply quit playing GW. I surely won't whine that I dont have the time to acquite skills and items however.
Mark my words.. If this simplifying shit dont stop, this game will end up like Diablo 2, where a new 13 year old kid called me a NOOB every day just because he felt like insulting me.
I am so glad that I passed the whole game, and it's many great challanges - like a true devoted gamer, and made 170k from farming before this damned patch was applied.

codemonkey

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

NH

The Wizard Ninjas [TWN]

09 Jun 2005 at 20:42 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

Heh.. Sour grapes?? You dont have the time or energy to spend doing the same thing over and over to attein the same thing I have?? THEN DONT PLAY THE GAME. Go play UT or Battlefield instead.
Yes I did spend a lot of time and energy to have what I got. And it pisses me off to see people getting this stuff without a problem now. It was what made this game interesting in the 1st place. I'm glad I have the time to play this game now, but when I'll get a descent job, I'll simply quit playing GW. I surely won't whine that I dont have the time to acquite skills and items however.
Mark my words.. If this simplifying shit dont stop, this game will end up like Diablo 2, where a new 13 year old kid called me a NOOB every day just because he felt like insulting me.
I am so glad that I passed the whole game, and it's many great challanges - like a true devoted gamer, and made 170k from farming before this damned patch was applied.

And it makes me upset to see people spending tons of hours in a game to repeat the same thing over and over and over again. However you seem to have an issue with people doing things faster with less tedium because it would make your lack of a real job more meaningful... I do not see the correlation. If I can get an elite skill in 50% faster then I could w/o the patch how does this effect you personally? Does it insult you that I am able to sit down for 2 hours and make some positive progress in a game? Does it insult you that I didn't burn 40+ hours in front of my monitor just to get a few really nice skills? I guess, I'm confused....

I guess I'll never understand the concept of "I spent tons of wasted time on a game and you have what I have with less time spent." Seems like a childish concept. I play the game for fun, not to be so super cool that I can say I'm better then everyone else because I spent more hours online...

CodeMonkey

Phantom Force

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

New York

W/Mo

09 Jun 2005 at 21:08 - 158

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Now, perception of "unnecessary" differs. Some will claim it's necessary no matter what. But for the common definition, there will be changes coming.

To comment on your quoute about farming. I've said this on many posts time and time again. Not that what I think always matters, but people fail to see that farming, PvP, PvE story/replay, etc. all intertwines. If you take things away that let people kill time while waiting for new stories/events/skills/levels and so on then GW will lose valuable customers. The game isn't solely about PvP and people just wanting to PvP. People like to farm (few religiously, some casually on and off {me}, and others not so much. When you don't want to farm or have to farm you do things like PvP or replay another character. Maybe I'm just stupid in thinking it but yay for me. I have a feeling that if you nerf farming to make it harder by lowering drop rate, nerfing farm areas, or anything else you'll begin to lose people. Not everyone is stuck on just PvP to hold them over. Story line gets old after 1st or 2nd time through. So then what? You help friends for a bit, PvP, and? I for one would not PvP every night til the next patch. I don't think majority all just PvP 24/7 either. By taking away a cornerstone of any MMORPG or CORPG the rest will start to fall. I don't think any game will survive solely on PvE or just PvP.

codemonkey

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

NH

The Wizard Ninjas [TWN]

09 Jun 2005 at 21:27 - 159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Force

To comment on your quoute about farming. I've said this on many posts time and time again. Not that what I think always matters, but people fail to see that farming, PvP, PvE story/replay, etc. all intertwines. If you take things away that let people kill time while waiting for new stories/events/skills/levels and so on then GW will lose valuable customers. The game isn't solely about PvP and people just wanting to PvP. People like to farm (few religiously, some casually on and off {me}, and others not so much. When you don't want to farm or have to farm you do things like PvP or replay another character. Maybe I'm just stupid in thinking it but yay for me. I have a feeling that if you nerf farming to make it harder by lowering drop rate, nerfing farm areas, or anything else you'll begin to lose people. Not everyone is stuck on just PvP to hold them over. Story line gets old after 1st or 2nd time through. So then what? You help friends for a bit, PvP, and? I for one would not PvP every night til the next patch. I don't think majority all just PvP 24/7 either. By taking away a cornerstone of any MMORPG or CORPG the rest will start to fall. I don't think any game will survive solely on PvE or just PvP.

I only do not agree with mining money if its done in an automated method (i.e. using bots, or cheats). If you want to run out and kill things over and over and over then that's fine with me because it doesn't effect my playing. If it doesn't hurt the game itself then roll with it. If what your doing is hurting others playtime then you should be shot

CodeMonkey