Whats so bad about farming?

I suppose killing monsters and getting experience in a single player game so you don't die to a boss is cheating too?

Bingo!

Heaven forbid that you need to put in time make money and aquire items. To me constant quests where getting 10 of this and that for Famer Smith is grinding. I mean to each thier own, but farming is not a mandatory thing in this game atleast from what I can tell.

Next thing people will say is that we all should be able to instantly have level 20 characters with skills and weapons for PvP...oh wait.

Because it gives an unfair advantage. Thats what a cheat is.

But its NOT an unfair advantage! I dont see why the heck anyone thinks its an advantage at all. Is it just because farmers find items while you have to pay for them? Well guess what, the items you are paying for are probably from farmers and without them, there would be much less items. They are spending their time and you are paying for it. Dont like buying? Then farm. Dont like farming or buying? Then oh well, it will just take you a little bit longer. Its not like everyone has to enter pvp at the same exact time! Not that it matters to me because all I want is a set of 15k armor. Just think of it this way. Farmers are like HoHers. They both do the same thing over and over again. HoHers collect sigils and sell them. Farmers find items and sell them. Whats the difference?

Pope, your logic is flawed. It's a choice avaiable to all, therefore nobody has an advantage. Whether they want to do it or not is their choice.

It is not a choice available to all. Many people cannot farm without, say, taking time off from their jobs. Most people's time is worth too much to blow it on farming.

As I stated before, farming does not take that much time! Anyone can get a decent amount of gold by farming in the time it takes to do one mission. Dont have time? They might as well take out all the ascension mission then because they take up MUCH more time.

If farming takes up too much time, and people want everyone to be totally equal, then you might as well give out celestial sigils and unid superior vigor runes because those are pretty much impossible to get for both the average farmer and normal player.

Here is a solution. Instead of killing the drops and making the monsters impossible, why not put the drops and monsters back to normal, and set like a 30 minute timer on each area. For 30 mins in each area, that area will drop items normally. After this amount of time, the drops can diminish a lot until the timer resets. This timer would be reset every 24 hours. This would work because:

1. People who do missions will get normal drops while doing missions because they will take around 30 mins (the 30 mins might have to be adjusted for later missions)

2. Farming would be a choice that even normal people can partake in. There would be no advantage to people with more time because they would have a time limit on the drops for each area.

3. This would promote people to go into all the areas of the game.

In parties, when someone has already spent their time, the loot would be split in an uneven ratio with more loot going to those that did not use their time yet. What happens when everyone in a party has used up their time? The ratio will be like normal with the loot split evenly.

What do you think?

How is it cheating or unfair? Granted it takes time to get the perfect uber farmer but anyone can spend 15-20 minutes out of thier gametime to clear out a area for items (skins crafing components ect). Heck people will spend that much in town doing LFG shouts. Heck it's only a level 20 levelcap fer petes sake, we're not talking FFXI.

How can someone say that having +3 to an attribute, +1 to the rest, almost the same health (sup vigor), energy steal on hit and 20% longer enchantments is fair? Then there's the fact that people who have lots of skills unlocked can base their character around what the group needs, rather than having to find a group that needs their character.

NO ONE deserves unfair advantages. I don't care how you got it, it isn't fair and you don't deserve it. If you got it by farming, then its bad. If you got it by buying it on ebay, its bad. If you got it by playing normally, its bad.

I don't really have anything against farming in itself, I'm just against people getting unfair advantages. Farming for stuff like 15k armor and black dye is fine.

That makes no sense and you know it

So you measure someone's skill and their ability to use that skill based on what, exactly, how they attained it with IN THE GAME means? Please!

Well, I have it, and I earned it. Whether or not I deserve it, ANET decides. i suppose you could just not play. No wait, I'm pushing reality beyond limits here.

I've got runes too. But at least I don't pretend that I earned them - I was randomly allocated them by drop tables.

So if someone spends hours to create a farming character and spends more time getting the drops to attain or buy the items thats an unfair advantage? Well, I guess that's true, but then again I'm sure Tiger Woods would have a unfair advantage over me in golf.

I would wholeheartedly agree with you if there was competion for the drops, but there isn't really anything that someone who spends a little extra time on can do. You may not be able to it in a week, but what's the hurry there's no monthly charge.

You know if they do nerf farming, there will be an even more of an unfair advantage on people who never got the benefits of it. Just a thought....

Tiger Woods wouldn't have an unfair advantage, he would just be a better player. There is a big difference.

Hang on hang on. Lets just get an idea what "Farming" is for these people and how it works.

- First off, are the people who are saying "Don't want to do mind numbingly repetetive grind just to get a few items" after the items themselves or the money they'll get from selling them.

- Second, lets ask the farmers how long they have to farm to aquire.. a major rune.. 5K.. a superior rune? Because if the people who DO farm, come across a few of these quite quickly (lets say 15 minutes), then I suggest there's not much problem for OTHERS to go do the same thing if they want the same rewards.

And don't forget, everything is kept in perspective. When I was level 9 I was farming blue items and gold drops of 7 or so. Once I aqquire the skills I'll be farming in the lvl 20 areas, so it's not like only lvl 20's can farm. Just don't be greedy and run before you can walk.

Okay back to the points. Lets say the answer to point 2 is... 30 minutes +. This is why the people from the first point are mad. Rares are rares we all agree that. You shouldn't be finding gold drops everytime you walk out a zone.
BUT, it's an unfair advantage for people to get rares by spending time that other people don't want to OR CAN'T.. there are many reasons why people CAN'T spend their time sitting there farming. I think this is what the rune trader is doing now. People can still aqquire runes. Even at the rune trader, they are going to be rare! I don't think the game was designed for everyone to get runes on all pieces of their armor so easily.

So, the sum up is runes should be made available as rares. Forget that you WANT that superior vigor. I think it's going to be a lot harder to come by. People will come across the drops as they play the game, and once again it will be YAY I found a rune. Then they either use it, or sell it to a player or to the rune trader. If they then sell it to the rune trader, she has one to sell.

I think this is great. I see too many gold weapons and major runes being sold by people, they're rares for christs sake. The rune trader is going to be giving an idea of rune PRICES, so even though a drop in runes will appear (if they get rid of farming abilities), they won't become stupid prices.

Oh and remember, if they'd introduced the rune trader at the start of the game.. the farmers wouldn't have any problem with it. They'd be out there farming to re-sell to the rune trader etc.


P.s.. it's not your god given right to be rich in these games, so don't moan when it's taken away from you. If being rich is what makes a game fun for you, then find a game that allows that. They're just trying to introduce stablility into the economy so it is NOT run by players. I would love it if that happened.

So he was born talented and a pro at golf? Maybe to an extent but it took much training I am sure. It takes some time to create a farming character too. Actually its really not that much time but :P

Some characters are good at doing pvp but horrible at pve. Does this mean that those that are good at pve have an unfair advantage? No.

Some characters are good at soloing some mobs while other are good at being in a group. Does this mean that those that are good at soloing and farming have an unfair advantage? No.

Besides, I dont see what takes up so much time while farming.

Does it take a ton of time to create a farming character? No. If you started a character and you really really want to farm then there is a reason why AreaNet gave you four character slots. Dont have the time to create another character? Change your secondary and buy the skills. Actual farming doesnt take that much time.

I guess it all comes down to this:
Farming is basically the end game for those who want to exclusively play PvE. The end game for PvE players is getting unique looking items (15k armor, rare weapons,) getting skills and items (just for the hell of it to maybe try pvp at some time,) and helping newbies. Its going to be a long long time before the next expansion and removing such a large part of pve such as farming is going to make it a much much longer wait.

i have finished the whole game and i am not one of these eople who likes going back and repeating thing i have done before. In othe rsingle player games i will play throught it once. i mite go back for a bit of replay value but i wont set the difficulty a bot harder cus its essentially the same game just with 2 or 3 more guys to kill :S


LEAVE FARMING ALONE OR IM GIVING UP THIS GAME

I have nothing against farming in itself. Farming for unique items should be in the game, and it's a good feature. However, giving farmers advantages in PvP for farming forces people to become farmers for a fair game.

My viewpont is essentially Farming = good/no problem, Unfair advantages = bad. People should have to work for status symbols, but not for the tools required to play the game properly.

If you're happy to farm for things like Lightning Dragon Swords and 100k armors, good luck to you. I'll be impressed when I see someone with that kind of thing. However, forcing everyone to get them in order to PvP just cheapens them. It's not special anymore if everyone has one, and forcing people to get them means that everyone will get them.

It really doesn't make that much of a difference. If you are good, your are good no matter what you are wearing or what your opponent is wearing. There are plenty of people who get trashed in PvP even with Sup Vigors/Absorption, Zealout grips, etc. That extra 50 health from the sup vigor will definitely help, but its not going to decide anything in terms of the eventual outcome in a PvP match.

Agreed. You basically just trashed the "unfair" argument

I think there's a little confusion here as to what happened since this last update, and so I'll try to make this clearer - anyone who knows better, please correct the following or add some insight as to what may be happening...

I'm not a "farmer" in the strict sense, ie. I don't go out and spend hours farming for loot or rare items to resell to others. I just go through the quests and missions, sometimes on my own to get more of the drops, and sometimes with a PuG or Henchmen.

What has happened since the last patch is that if you are in an area by yourself, or even with a henchman, doing a normal quest and killing creatures, after a very short period of time, killing the same type of creature triggers them to stop dropping items or gold altogether, or drop only collector items and non-rare salvage materials. If you leave that zone and re-enter to reset the instance, it doesn't reset the drops and you get nothing but experience. Eventually creatures stop dropping everywhere. Logging off and restarting doesn't seem to have an effect either.

Make sense? This has been reported and confirmed by people on this forum, as well as on the two other major GW forum sites. There has been speculation that if one completes a mission or turns in the reward for a quest, that drops are reset for that character and start again, but not enough people have reported this behavior to nail down the pattern. It's not discussed in the update notes on the GW site, but appears to be a side effect of their attempts to prohibit "bot farming" altogether.

I'm not a farmer... but I like to do several quests at once and then go turn them in all at the same time, not do them one by one. If I'm in Kryta running around the land trying to do several quests in solo mode or with a hench or two, eventually all drops stop. When I solo, I'll often get overwhelmed and die a lot, and so decide to restart back at a town and try again to lose the dealth penalty, but the next time through there aren't any drops at all... this happened to me last night.

Also last night, a friend asked me to come back to Ascalon and help him get through the Nolani mission and bonus to which I said, "sure." I'm lvl 16 and the other three were below lvl 10, and I'd already completed both the mission and bonus. During the mission, unlike on my previous run throughs, I got like zero worthwhile drops... a few non-rare armors, a shell and a charr hide - for the entire mission and bonus. Meanwhile my friend and the others got all kinds of drops on just about every creature. At first I didn't think anything of it, just thought it was bad luck. But as the mission continued, I started wondering what the heck was going on... it wasn't normal, as I've gone through previous missions with high level characters before and never had such poor drops or lack thereof altogether. So not only did I get like zero experience for helping out, but I got hardly any items to sell to the merchant as well. I remember going through a mission with a full party and having my inventory crammed with stuff, or having to salvage items to make room during the mission... now i'm lucky to fill up the backpack.

On another site, a level 20 reported that he went back to help someone through an Ascalon mission today and didn't get a single drop the entire mission. So there is something going on here.

Why? He got that way by spending hours on the course practicing and has sponser that give him the best clubs money can buy....I can't afford to spend the time nor the money, I'm just a casual player. (wink)

The very fact that the farmers have more time than the casual gamer is the problem. Not the farming itself. You say it's unfair because the farmer has more time, which he uses to farm.

Okay, let's say the farmer uses his time (which is greater than the casual gamer's) to improve on his PvP playing. Heaven forbid practicing PvP is an unfair advantage!

But lo and behold, bet you some whiny snob will come and say that the farmer has an unfair advantage in the fact that he has more time to practice PvP, and therefore kicks the snot out of the casual gamer. Same with farming, except it's dealing with items.

The Tiger Woods comparison doesn't make sence. No-one who farms was born with the talent to do so over everyone else. Understand that. Farming compared to golf, is like... well. Lets say winning the PGA tour is the same as getting a superior vigor (although it's not cos golf requires skill) BUT we'll use the example in the sence of repetition.

Imagine you're not playing ANYone.. just out there by yourself. You need to make a birdie on every par. If you do that, you win! Oh and by the way.. your birdie relys on something out of your control. (This is the randomness whether you get a drop or not.)
Okay, so you've won. Do this MANY many times.. say for like, 100 YEARS.. that's how you can even come close to comparing Tiger Woods with Farming. A golfer would need to do that to be in with a shot of getting as many wins as Tiger.

Oh and, the non farmers are the people who play against other people, and hit a birdie through luck once in a while.

PGA - The drop
Birdie - The requirements to aquire that drop which are out of your control (meaning there's no defined skill involved)
100 years - The repetition to get all the drops you want, ie. no-one gets them all first time round.

I think I need to explain the veiwpoint of a PvPer. This game is essentially a large scale version of paper rock scissors. To keep this analogy simple, we are going to use just those 3 things to represent different builds that counter eachother the same way they do in the hand game. Typically, paper beats rock, rock beats scissors, and scissors beats paper. Now if we assume a team decked out in runes is for example rock+1 then we have this:

Rock+1>Scissors
Rock+1<Paper
Rock+1>Rock

Now of course a team doesn't always face an exact mirror such as rock vs rock, but a vs a similar build it would work the same way as this analogy. If you want to argue that regular rock could beat rock+1 with enough skill, just add +1 or +2 to regular rock to account for skill. Oh goodness, I just realized I derived that items = skill

If you're implying that hitting birdies in reality is random chance or that there is no skill involved, then you obviously do not play golf. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what it sounds like you're suggesting. Hitting a birdie on every shot takes enormous skill and practice.

And after this last update, neither on the second, or the third, or the fourth...

No. Runes are not "rock+1". Runes make the build somewhat different, because they affect attribute distribution. The "+#" addition would account for actual skill (tactics/strategy). A plain "rock build" would simply be "rock", but a runed rock build would be something different ("Granite" for example).

This would look like...

Rock<Granite<Limestone<Pebbles<Rock

Of course, not that simple

He didn't trash anything. I agree that it could be more unfair than it is. I agree that skill is more important than items. I agree that being shot in the head is worse than being shot in the foot. That doesn't make it a good thing.

Or is using unlimited money codes in an RTS not a cheat because other games contain god mode?

People should earn their HoH wins and ladder ranking, not just get easy wins because they've been around for a long time.

I agree. But farming does not necessarily mean an unfair advantage. Generally, if the opposing team is sufficiently more skilled then their "farming" opponents, they will win...

Exactly. Seems like most of the more popular MMO games nowadays almost bend over backward for the casual gamer (PvE). This game you don't have to run from town to town, there is no crafting skill needed, every area is instanced (go out kill, zone, rinse, repeat), AND your characters all share the same storage. I won't even mention the fact you can hire henchmen if you can't find a group (and when I say hire...I mean free). Gad I've waited for parties in FF longer than I've played this game.

For me right now I go out and farm crafting materials for 15 minutes before work.... I've gotten 1 gold item, and was pretty stoked. The quest are getting a little challenging and I usually get schooled in PvP. I know eventually I will be able to hold my own, but it's the getting there thats part of the fun.

Of course.

But Guild Wars is not real life. Guild Wars is meant to cut out all that repetition and get straight to the fun parts.

Ahem, *cough*...
Quoted since my earlier post didn't seem to make an impact on this discussion whatsoever.

There are two types of "farmers"...

1) The evil bad guys who farm to rip off the poor noobs, get a guild hall yesterday, or gain an advantage in PvP sooner than your average mortal. They screw up the economy, and spam chat the trade channel for hours on end. According to this thread and others like it, these people are the scum of the earth and need to get a life.

2) The normal, everyday player who likes to go on quests alone or with henchmen to get a larger share of drops, looking for cool items or things to sell to the merchants or other players in town for extra cash. Often they follow the quests and missions, give cool items away or cheaply which would be a shame to drop off at the merchant, and pretty much only want to get enough to buy that really cool dragon armor at some point.

Under the current situation, group 2 is being penalized because of the actions of group 1 and the nefarious "bot farmers."

In order to get the +3, Sup Vigor etc etc., which gives this "unfair" advantage....they farm.....so you're NOT against farming??

that whole comment goes back on itself, and then to say that someone who just played thru the game and possibly had the luck to get a Sup Vig drop along with a Sup that went with their class falls in the same category....hmmm to quote the game I'm hitting control+condition - I HAVE BLIND ON ME!!!!
w/e

LOL. Meph Runs! Countess Runs! Baal Runs! Wow, that brings back memories.

If GW got like Diablo, I'd ditch it for the next game that came out (just like I did with LOD).

Read what I said. I said "Oh.. and by the way, a birdie relys on something out of your control". That's what I meant when you couldn't compare golf to farming. Because you success at golf IS in your control, it's based on your skill and natural abilities. Farming is based on repetition. Read the WHOLE post before you question others.

And that little key at the bottom was just so people could understand what each bit was.

Heheh well, you're reading way too much into it. My only point is/or was that people who invest the time and practice will always have an advantage over someone who plays casually. If golfing had team play (show's how much I know about golf) and Tiger was on thier team, that would be an unfair advantage would it not? I'm sure he had lots of talent to start out with but he has the luxury of playing with the best equipment anytime he wants.

Now I could have picked a better example I admit, but I didn't think someone was going to start comparing birdies to character skills....lol.

I would have to think that before they were enjoying the glamour life in GW, the people who kick butt had to spend a bit a time and practice to get where they are. ...or did they somehow get a version of the game I didn't.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. I did read it several times, because it was confusing to me. Didn't quite get the whole metaphor thing you were going for, but that's cool. No need to get confrontational, I wasn't attacking...

Guess that's the part that made no sense. In golf, a birdie relies on your skill and ability, not something out of your control. It's not luck. Pro golfers hit birdie's because they want to, and miss because of luck, not the other way around. Just an fyi...