Whats so bad about farming?

ok ill break it down for you since you dont get it,

Lets say 100 people buy GW.
Anet makes money this day

If after 1 month 100 people still play.
Anet is losing money because no monthly fee + they pay to keep servers going + they pay devs + they pay employee's + advertising + more!

After buying the game clients pay NOTHING forever!

Now lets look at how Anet can save or make more money...

1. Make Money - Release an expansion.
2. Make Money - Keep more people buying the game by promoting that they update it. Try to keep it free of Bots.
3. Save Money - Lose 40% of the current people who play but bring them back with an expansion. Why? So instead of paying for 10 servers + for bandwidth + for electricity you only have to pay for 6 servers, 60% of your electricity, 60% of your bandwidth.

Lets answer number 2 and 3 in 1 solution. Make it impossible to farm. Bye bye bots, bye bye legit farmers that play 8+ hours a day with nothing else left to do.. see you next expansion.

Lets face it there is a strategy behind every product on the market to make more money and to save money. Thats what businesses do. Anet IS a business. They don't care if you play it after you buy the game as long as you buy the game and buy the next expansion. Its hard to pull of getting people to buy it and wanting the next expansion while also saving as much money as they can in between... which is what they are doing. Keep in mind they have to keep the illusion of caring to make people want the expansion.

Hmm lets see. Have a real life job unlike those who play 24/7. Have a wife, which I would safely bet at least 50% of people play don't. Have a job. Yes I usually play 2-3 hours a day maybe, except if my wife works then maybe a little more. Guild Wars is an MMORPG/CORPG whichever you'd prefer. Either way these types of games are SUPPOSE to last quite some time. I do not think the game is horrible, but people do not listen to my point. Things all work together. If you eliminate some then things will fall apart. Examples AC2 and SWG nerf'd skills and lost a lot customers before they even had expansions out. Nerfing stuff cause it so people couldn't do the things they wanted. Aside from nerfing effecting solo play to farm for an item you wanted, it effected the game play which upset people. Anet doesn't nerf skills they just nerf mobs to prevent farming. This still does not provide the solution that what if I want 15k armor? Hmm... Options to obtain money for that and/or superior rune I can't find through normal game play to unlock. Lets see for gold I could be one of the idiots who blow RL money for in game money (not an option my money is far more important). So how else do I get the money? Between 3 characters I've leveled to nearly 20 so far w/o farming I've accumulated about 20k gold. Spent the gold I've made to upgrade armor at critical times, and purchased skills/capture signets to get skills. And I'm a pack rat so I keep everything that drops for me to sell.
Now what about runes? I've met at least 10 people who haven't even unlocked 1 superior rune (including myself). This means we could buy one but don't have gold, can't find one because we can't farm, and if we did buy it still isn't unlocked. Guess I'll complain to Anet that since reducing grind was a viable option and considering UAS they might as well UAI (unlock all items) too for PvE + PvP. Point is if you can't find what you want you farm for it, but people don't realize most farmers aren't religious. Nuff said.

Point I was making before is that people will leave game because they are upset. If you leave a game because it's going in wrong direction, take things away people like to do, take things away that keep people playing, they will lose money not gain money. They will NOT buy expansion and will take their business else where. Games survivability depend on PvE and PvP. PvE has nothing for you to do other than complete game (once is enough), unlock skills (most have already done with 2 characters or been rushed through to do), and then what help a buddy for awhile. I dont think Anet should have farming where you get 15 gold items because you could kill 20 golems. But gimme a break they nerf'd drop rates and nerf'd monsters. Those who already farmed for stuff before nerfs have more gold than they need (people always complaining about gold sinks), and have found majority of items (maybe not all) that they need or wanted. So how does this help those still arriving to the game or those who didn't rush through to get 20, farm for item unlocking, and get skills asap to get items they need. It doesn't. Fixing the drop rate was a good idea, I only ask that they make farming possible not impossible.

Oh here is comes, the name calling.

Why don't you direct your statements at who they were intended, or are you just here to insult everyone without cause?

.. Weezer Blue,

I don't think anyone is trying to convince you that "farming is fun." Rather, what I figure someone--and what I've been saying--is that I LIKE TO FARM. I ENJOY FARMING. And in the same way I don't like football or knitting or teaching advanced calculus, I don't expect others to like what I think is fun.

I like to farm.

I like item-finding.

I like to find goodies.

I don't expect everyone else to like what I like.

I'm just saying. I'm tired of people writing off the farmers as these kind of sub-human robot-things who farm because THEY JUST HAVE TO GET THE EDGE IN PVP and are horrible players and are ruining the game and since they're so awful we shouldn't give them even one iota of respect.

Last time I checked, I bought this game to enjoy it, too.

- edit -

And for everyone suggesting that it's aNet's plot to scare some of us off in order to save money, they actuall stand to lose customer-base by the negative reports those people hand out.

If they have one-hundred people, if forty of those leave, while aNet initially saves some money there, they'll have sixty people going, "Hey, it's good/all right game," and forty people going "HOMG ANET *****S."

Now, increase those numbers to be more representative of the population, and take into account the tendency for people to acknowledge the negative while ignoring the good..

If aNet wants to stay profitable, they not only have to pander to their current customer base, but do everything possible to maintain their positive look.

I wanted to avoid posting in this thread, and have kept my comments to myself or have talked about them with guild members, but I felt I should speak my mind, so here goes:

Good point, DrSLUGFly -- they shouldn't totally remove farming from the game, but it shouldn't have to feel like a necessity. Players aren't REQUIRED to spend hours and hours farming items/gold. Unlockable items should definitely be available through regular game play, without needing to farm for them. Not everyone farms to unlock items for PvP. Some farm just for the gold, so they can afford things that other players are lucky to find. Most of the things I find are for warriors and necromancers, and occasionally some wands and staffs. I never find good things for my Elementalist, but other people have great max damage staffs that I eye, or runes other than minor air (I find a million of these).

I agree - even farming stuff that doesn't drop super cool unid'ed armors, just to get gold to buy materials, dyes, etc.. isn't so bad. Dyes, 15K armor.. don't even affect the stats, and doesn't give one player an advantage over another player. They're little rewards to blow your money on, and if people want them, why shouldn't they be allowed to work for them? As boring as farming can be, I have to admit I do get a kick out of seeing Inferno do 200 damage on a monster, and I definitely enjoy having the gold to spend on dye.

Yeah, I spent over 5K on Dwarven Ale so my guild members and I could have a fun party at the Guild Hall while we promoted someone to officer. But now, I need to hang onto what's left, because I still want to buy my 15K armor, and need to buy runes to spice them up.

YES! Very simply put, and very true. We basically just need the NECESSITIES (armor, runes) to be affordable for all players -- and the fancy shmancy not-so-necessary items to act as gold sinks.

Example, a good max damage fire staff with energy +12, skill recharge & skill casting time improved might go for a large amount of money. However, you don't HAVE to buy a fire staff -- you could buy/find a wand with skill recharge, and buy/find an offhand item with energy+12 and skill casting improvement, and it would be EXACTLY THE SAME. There will be those who will want to spend the extra money on a staff because it is one less space in the inventory taken up and because they might like the look of a staff better than a wand.

Another example, the infamous Fiery Dragon Sword -- so what, it's not like it does +50 more damage than any other sword? You don't HAVE to have it - you'll be fine with your regular sword; the fiery one should cost more for its cosmetics.

I'm hoping runes will continue to drop in price, and that they will drop more frequently, so that the prices won't be outrageously high. However, ANet should introduce more gold sinks. We've got 15K fancy armor with same stats, 50gold per character to share storage, 1K fee to enter UW/Fissue, and Dwarven Ale to get drunk. We've also got those cosmetic items like staffs, fiery swords, and chaos axes. Simply introduce more items that don't boost stats, but are comstic or for fun, and you'll have a good way to destroy the gold as easily as it is coming in. These items will be needed eventually ANYWAY - because even through regular gameplay, people will be collecting gold, and eventually everyone will be rich. We need to waste our gold on something.

Actually, they've made it really difficult to farm. Drop rates have changed, enemies have been relocated or replaced, and random trees have been placed to block pathways people used on their runs. Some enemies apparently also are stronger, hit harder, and have better defense: lightning drakes, for example. Now, I tried killing them on a mission with my Elementalist before - I would take on 2, and each time, I almost died. I can't imagine how difficult/impossible they are for me to kill now. Yes, they have made it more difficult to farm, but now these enemies are difficult for the quests/missions, as well. How exactly does making it harder to attain drops & kill monsters help the casual player?

This patch not only made changes to farming, but just in general the ways of spending & buying money. Runes for example are now being sold at somewhat reasonable prices by the trader (100-200 gold for minors is reasonable, 100 platinum for a superior vigor is not lol). I'm fine with that, I'll spend a couple platinum bars here and there to buy some nice runes for my character. But what happens when I want to buy something else? Hm, well I could sell some runes back to the trader to earn money, right? Not so -- not when he only wants 29 gold for my major runes. -_-;;

And generally, it's difficult to make money now, with the changes that have been made. Only three or four of my guild members farm for gold. The other 15+ guild members are poor and still find gold to be valuable. To them, 5K is a lot of money. We often assist the other members financially be supplying them with gold to buy weapons, armor, and runes. Lately though, we've had to conserve the gold for ourselves. A friend of mine paid the 75K for our guild hall, plus bought his 15k armor and all the runes he wanted -- now his second character is poor, and I am always offering to lend gold because he can't make money fast enough through regular playing. He's tried to farm with his new character, but it's too difficult to do.

Farming isn't a cheat though. The +3 attribute, the 20% enchantment, are all available as part of the game through random drops. It is not like a player went into the source code of the game and tweaked it so that only their character owned those items. Using bots and external programs is cheating. Spending your free time to gather items and gold is not cheating.

And over the course of time, any casual player could unlock all the skills, runes, and modifiers. But does someone honestly NEED to unlock all skills, runes, and modifiers? No. It is a choice a person makes to satisfy themselves. I would like to one day have all the skills unlocked -- I don't want it so bad that I am farming to unlock, but I know that as I continue to play the game, it is possible.

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I realize the game is supposed to be "fun", but everyone has their own definition of it.

For me, fun is getting a good party and completing missions, as well as being able to afford cool things like 15K armor and large amounts of Dwarven Ale to share with my guild members. If I can make the money to do this in a matter of an hour or less, then yay! Having to spend over a week through 'regular gameplay' (not farming, not exploring, only selling the drops I find on quests & missions, not playing the materials market, not going to the uw/fissue, not having the luck of finding super awesome weapons that people want to shell 50k for), not so fun. People seem to complain about the disadvantage that farming has over casual players, using the "player skill over time" argument. But let's make things clear -- It is NOT impossible to afford things like 15K armor or novelty items through regular gameplay. It is also NOT REQUIRED to have these things. Through regular gameplay, anyone can afford these gold sinks. Farming just assists those who are impatient and want to enjoy the fun novelty items right away.

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I think there are both kinds of people. Some are farming for gold, so they can afford items they DO want. Others are taking a gamble, to find the item they want themselves.

What is the difference between spending 30 minutse farming for an item you want, and spending 30 minutes spamming "WTB < ITEM>" in trade chat, to purchase it from someone else who found it?

I can't answer this question - because I don't farm to acquire runes. However, I farm to earn money to buy things I want. With that said, if I was poor and wanted 1k to buy a few dwarven ales, without any hardcore farming builds and just with my simple quest/mission build, I could probably earn the 1 platinum in a matter of minutes -- simply by going out and killing some monsters for a while (whether it be a "run" or through means of exploring), and selling everything I find back to the merchant.

I'll also say - in the entire amount of time I have played the game, whether with a "farm build" or a regular character, I have never EVER ever found a Superior Vigor, let alone a rune I actually want. Nor have I ever found a staff I'm actually happy with, or modifiers for weapons I use.

Thank you very much for putting that into words. I think most people have the mindset that you must own the best of everything to be the best of everything. This game was advertised as player skill over time, and it is just that. I know people who have the super best items, and I still see them die in battle. I, myself, don't even use a max damage weapon, nor have I unlocked all the skills I want, and I have managed to do some good damage and survive.

I don't know if that was meant to be funny, but I laughed at the bare honesty of it.

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I've written.. a lot, so I think I'll just end with where my guild members stand at this moment, as a result of all the changes that have been made:

- the poor guild members don't play so much because they can't raise the money for armor to pve efficiently / want to pvp but don't like how long it takes to unlock stuff
- the rich guild members either spent their money and are poor now / are hanging onto their money because once it's gone, it's difficult to earn more now / are wishing there were more gold sinks to splurge on
- we haven't done a lot of pvp or any gvg because some aren't ready to pvp or want to pve still
- a lot of guild members are taking a break away from the game b/c they are unhappy with the current situation

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In addition, here is what I suggest:
- increase drops & don't make it so hard to get them (this will lower prices, increase supply, and no one will have unfair advantages over each other)
- allow us to sell 'rare' items like major runes for reasonable amounts of money (more than 29 gold)
- implement more gold sinks for the rich players to splurge on
- allow pvp players the benefit to unlock skills/runes/etc through pvp. pve players aren't really forced to pvp, so equally, pvp shouldn't be forced to pve.

I keep hearing that PvP is all about skill. In many FPS style games skill means that while everyone has the big guns you can win with a dagger.

...but anyways Studio Gigli I hear ya. The game has alot of different players who get different things out of this game. I though it was pretty cool they made it so you can either play PvP only, and give you a lvl20 character or you can take the time and do the RP adventure. It still boggle me that people think that farming is cheating but whatever...

Baaa, farming? Cheating? There is no way a person could say that is the deal.

Until the update.

Until then everyone had access to farming. Now, there is "no" farming?

I guess you could ponder if the Devs farmed all their runes, items, and money, and are now trying to cut it off for everyone else. That would be more realistic than calling farming cheating.

You don't necassarily need the best of everything to be the best of everything, but it certainly helps. Not having that superior rune and perfect hale staff head is just another way of gimping a character. Skills provide versatality which is absoultely crucial to this game. Was it otherwise everyone would use the premaded characters in PvP. Its absolutely true that you can 'do some good damage and survive' but some of us are looking to more than 'good damage and surive.' A character with minor runes vs a char with major runes is like using a MP5 with no body armor vs a M4A1 with full armor + helmet + grenades in Counter Strike. Sure, the guy with the MP5 can win, but everyone wants the M4 anyway.

Tuna, I see your point. But even so, it's not like the best items in the game are impossible to come by. There are only a few items that people seem to be struggling to attain, one of which is the Superior Rune of Vigor. Currently, supply does not mean demand. Increase supply, and soon they won't cost 100 platinum.

This is exactly the problem, by nerfing the farming spots the drastically cut supply. If they don't change anything the problem will only get worse. Superior vigor is most notable because every character should have one, but unlocked superior runes in general is a problem.

And the newb arrives...

So what exactly is farming again?

Killing monsters for loot and gold (and sometimes XP)

It is repeatedly killing monsters in certain areas, and then reloading and doing the same thing. If you find a good way/area to do this, you net money and items way faster than playing "normally."

I do not know if ANet came out and said "we never intended you guys to farm," but I'm assuming they didn't. Thus, I'm going to say, there's nothing bad about farming, unless you're someone who does not have much spare time or find farming boring.

If that is the case, let it be. Deal with it. Stop hating on farmers just because they have more spare time and are willing to go through the monotony. In reality, someone said it may be fun to farm, and I agree. Farming is just another play-style. To me, it is just as legit as doing all quests/missions. However, it simply yields a higher profit and some find it boring. There is nothing inherently wrong with farming. Farming causes inflation? No, greedy players cause inflation.

sorry if this point has been made already, i don't feel like reading this thread.

i see a lot of people saying that the devs don't want you to farm, they want you to play the game, and farming isn't the way they want you to play the game and stuff like that. well, tell me this... why the hell did the devs put armor in the game that costs 15k a piece and how the hell do you make 60-75k without farming?!?! next, show me someone that has done it without farming.

there isn't enough rewards from quests and missions and loot just from doing the quests and missions to get that amount of money by the end of the game WITHOUT farming.

Unless you get lucky and find a Superior Vigor on a mission.

Win in the Hall of Heroes and sell a sigil, or get a lucky drop.


*raises hand*


That's why it's a vanity item. If everyone had 100 plat laying around we wouldn't have this conversation. 15k and particularly fissure armors are functionally identical but 'sexier' armors for people to blow their savings upon. If you're not rolling in cash, don't bother, there are better places to spend cash.

Peace,
-CxE

Well -- the 15k armor isn't a necessity. No one needs to buy 15k armor. People just WANT to buy the 15k armor for cosmetic appearance and bragging rights. It has exactly the same stats as the 1.5k armor, and you can definitely make 6-8k through regular means.

Why create the 15k armor? To satisfy those players that want to have something that looks a little more fancy shmancy. And, as a reward to those perhaps who have played the game through more than one character and racked up enough extra cash after buying the stuff they needed.

With that said - I had 30 or 35k before I started farming (because this is when I found out about the 15k armor, and wanted to have my own set). I also went to Fissue one day with a group to check it out and do some quests (5000-10000XP FOR QUESTS! My jaw dropped.). On my first visit there, I walked out with a Chaos Axe, two Shadow Shields, and a couple of items which were safe to sell to a merchant. I announced I had a Chaos Axe for sale in the trade chat, thinking it would go for about 6-10k -- I was wrong, it went for 45k. I didn't spend hours farming away for it. I went down for some fun and exp (for skill points! yay!), and got something lucky out of it. I wasn't even in the Fissure of Woe very long (was still working on the first quest) when I got that Chaos Axe.

So -- it is possible to earn the money for 15k armor without farming. It's not fast money right away, but it's steady money, so it's definitely possible. Especially if a player chooses to always get Collector's Armor, rather than getting armor crafted, then they save money as they go through the game.

Well guess what, those people who bought those from you farmed to get that amount of money.

You're right. If someone, somewhere hadn't farmed, I doubt there'd be enough collective money for more than a few guilds to own a hall.

Considering how new this game is, most likely yes, those people did farm to afford these things. But even beforehand, I said I had around 30k before I even started farming - any player trades that I had been a part of were under 4k, which is an amount attainable through regular means.

ok just my 2 cents if you dont like grinding ,then you dont farm, i hear all these people say its boring, its repetitive, its grinding, DONT DO IT! go pvp, or go through a mission play how you want to play the game, the reason I had bought this game was the fun fact of you could either pvp or pve now with the non farming deal i cant pve which sucks. Believe me i love pvp but after 2 failed attempts with a nub grp then a good run with a beter group im tired of the pvp so i want to go pve and farm a little bit just to get some cash for 15k armor or to unlock a rune or two (fyi you did'nt get alot of rune drops not as many as you people may think)but i cant because of this dumb patch, this whole thing is just going to skyrockt prices on rares,sup vig runes ie; rich get richer poor stay poor as hell and try to save up the uber gold you get in a party (121 max) divided by 8 nice!, to get some armor or a bow string or hilt etc,etc farming is not unfair anyone can go make a farm toon and go farm, and dont give me that BS of the whole casual gamer line a-net figures it like this
-Player 1 is a casual game who playes 3 hours per night
-Player 2 is a hardcore gamer who plays 6 hours per night
Player 2 would have the advantage in pvp as well as cash because he plays more,solution to this: Screw Player 2
they say they want to rid the game of unfair advantages from the whole "grinding" deal there is no way to get rid of the grind it shall forever be there in a rpg thats the whole point of an rpg,you play and gain experience from playing. i think they more need to address the problem with botting, lineage 2 had a big problem with the chinese botters, and they put in gameguard that stopped third party programs,botting is an unfair disadvantage because you dont have to be at the computer to actually make that cash you dont have to "work" for your prizes, where as us farmers sit there for hours sometimes hitting the same 4 buttons in hopes of getting something worthwile,which ill then unlock and if i dont need it sell it to YOU for cheap. yes its repetitive,YES its boring,but it's my choice to sit there and do the same mission over and over its my decision to grind just as its the pvper's decision to pvp all day long in HoH
Dont hate on farmers, Hate on the Botters!

VIVA LA FARMING!

Here's my sarcastic remark for the evening, to get at the root of the farming problem, the problem of unfairness to the average player, is to make those farmers with too much time on their hands get a job! and if they have a job a second or third job! put em to work! that way they have to become average gamers and only play the game as many hours as everyone else does! Everyone should be made a casual gamer!

Alright sarcasm over. I hate farming, I hated having to run through things just to kill them so I could get loot. But what else am I suppose to do? Beside the fact that I want my 75k armor set (yeah I'm vain what can I say) I would like to unlock all the runes just because I'm a collector/completionist (Yeah one of those morons who in FFX unlocked everything on the sphere grid with all the characters).

This being said I devoted a little more time then a causal gamer to farming. Sure I skipped out on heading to the movies or going bowling with my buddies but I by games to play them and enjoy them just like I do with everything else. But heres the thing, my luck SUCKS! Yup you heard it. My friends were unlocking major and superior runes just by doing regular missions and quests, me the best thing I get is a blue wand or shield or something. I don't blame them because they just happened to be there its how the cookie crumbles I guess.

I laughed at the gold anologies and sure its about skill, every game sport what have you is skill. But there's also a bit of luck involved. Anyone who's played golf has sworn at least a few times as they've whacked a ball off the tee only to feel a strong gust take the ball and deposit it in a hazard. Same goes with item drops. Sure there are mathmatical formuli that could be applied to take out the exact number of this or that for drops but for me its random.

So anyway here's the connection with farming. I hate farming I said it once and I'll say it again. But as it stands since I'm not that lucky to get that superior rune of vigor or energy storage or superior rune of something or other I gotta keep killing stuff till it drops. Oh sure I could just buy it you say but then again it even said it on the site, the runes you buy do not unlock these runes, its only for you to use. Godly items are neat to find, I wouldn't mind finding a few and running around hitting things with them but I've never found one, even a semi crappy gold item. And to put it into prospective I have 3 level 20 ascended infused characters so no I'm not just piddling around in the newbie areas. Like I said my luck with good drops suck.

So then they nerfed the farming areas, it was alright I thought. I wanted those items and like anything you want, you should have to work for it so I put in a few more hours (still got nothing but eh thats my luck) and tried to get those runes and upgrades unlocked. Then they nerfed farming all togother and now I'm stuck with more hours attempting to kill stuff just so I can unlock stuff which only means now I have to stop every so often take a half hour to beat a mission and then try to get my runes unlocked.

Sure its a grind to farm, but I was always told by my grand dad that if I wanted something I'd have to go out and work for it. If I wanted a new car well by gum I had better get out there and make some money to get a new car. And low and behold there I am with a job and a few months later a new car (not a great car but its mine ). I don't see how thats any different in a game, if you want something bad enough you go out and work for it. Want a 75k armor? Go out and earn the gold for it. Wanna unlock a superior rune of what ever? Better get to killing stuff so you can unlock it.

I don't see how it's fair that people who work for something they want should be labeled as cheaters or told that they're doing something wrong. Some of us just are so lucky as to stumble on a gold peice of armor that has that lucky superior rune on it, and some of us are. Why penalize the people who aren't that lucky and willing to work for it by taking their only means of working for it. I mean sure I'd love if they just unlocked everything for me and then i wouldn't have to worry about collecting it because well I'd have it (although that would take away from the fun of finding it myself) but they haven't and they've taken away the only way for us unlucky players to maybe get what we need.

So what I'm trying to get at is this. When you say farming is unfair ask yourself why it's unfair. Why do you believe its unfair to you? Because you don't want to spend the extra time someone else does to find the things they do? Or is it really unfair because they can do it and you don't want to sacrafice the time to do what they do? Then ask you self is it fair that you worked so hard to have what you have around you be it computer, tv, stereo, a significant other (yes their hard to get too and harder to keep!) only to have the means in which you worked hard at are yanked from you and your told you can no longer work hard at it because its unfair to the people who don't want to work hard at it.

The bottom line is, why are we punishing people for putting extra effort and work into getting what they want? When did we start telling people that it was bad to work for things you want? When did we decide that everyone must be equal in the rewards they reaped even when others sacraficed more?

Farmers aren't bad, its people who want something and took the initiative to go work for it.

Seems to me people consider farming alot of things in this game. If you consider farming going out and harvesting crafting supplies, armor, and weapons anyone who complains that it is grinding is pretty casual because it takes no more than 15 minutes out of your gametime go back and forth and harvest. I'd hardly call that a grind.

I think if anything, the drops from mobs in this game trivialises loot that you get. I don't know how manytimes I've said "oh boy another grim cesta".....and unless it's blue, purple or gold it seems well anti-climatic. Crafting items can make you decent money but since theres not alot of crafting going on, it's not glamorus. And gold there's not a whole lot to buy. It would be nice to have more armor styles or maybe a player auction house to spend money on.

It was one of the hooks that sent me onto Guild Wars. I love to find items--and Guild Wars seemed to have a lot of those handy, and in steady supply. :d

But surely the point of playing a fantasy game is that it should be better than real life? All this talk of having to "work" and knuckle-down to some "grind" just seems ridiculous. I spend all day at work - when I get home and play a game I don't want to have to partake in mind-numbing chores, I want to have fun. I want to have adventures, chat to friends and enjoy the comradeship and the fun of exploring together. Sitting by yourself "grinding" away a lonely furrow to own virtual possessions is surely not what gaming is all about, is it? The real world is materialistic enough without bringing the same conventions to what is supposed to be an escapist, fantasy world?

You might think you are not hurting anyone else so why does it bother people? Well, have you considered the fact that there might only be a certain percentage of "good" drops allocated over a time period? That people who vociferously farm will get more of these items and therefore reduce the chance of ordinary players from getting them, thus detracting from their game? This has the effect of then making those players have to farm too just to stay competitive which, of course, just exacerbates the whole situation. Once everyone is farming it just means that everyone has to farm harder just to keep their head above water. Artificially inflating drop values simply makes things worse for everyone in the long run. Can't you see this?

No one said anyone has to farm items, this game makes it easy just to jump in and play. Over the normal course of questing you can easily get good loot. If one needs to have all the best right away, well then yea a little extra legwork is required. If one can't stand when you lose in pvp because someone has better items (which they spent the extra time to get) then yea it might be a problem.

I myself along with many other people think the gathering aspect is part of the game experience, this game in my opinion allows both...but you can't fault people if they want to make a effort to do more.

Well, before this patch, giants used to yield a gold armor every 2 runs or so. So you can just spend 30 minutes a day, and get a gold or 2 =P

Now, you can run it 10 times, and not have a blue drop =/ So now the real farmers will still farm and get what they need, while people who just do it for a bit a day get screwed =/

The whole farming issue stems from human nature, Jelousy and the "Hes not as skilled as me" outlook.

People say "I dont have time to farm all day to get XXX Item that looks uber cool" Well, tough, sorry, if i work 12 hours a day, and you only work for 4 hours, im going to make more than you 9 times out of 10. Its the way the world works. If that bugs you very badly, online gaming is NOT for you. In all competitive online games, Time played will always = more items, knowlege, skill and versatility than a casual gamer.

The other argument is "It creates an unfair PvP advantage, i lost cos he was decked out in runes and XXX items" people say that to themselves because they will never admit to themselevs that you just got beaten because you were not skilled enough, simple put a battle report window after you lose a PvP fight to combat this.

It would show you all your opponents stats, skills used and items worn, so you can see no they didnt have xxx runes ect ect, you just lost because HE/SHE was a better player than you, not because they MUST have farmed for 12 days straight to get an unfair advantage.

All the gold items I've gotten I've gotten during quests. Farming isn't all about getting rare items... Here's a thought, the money you make farming you can buy items. You can go in and out of Piken square and it's raining char hides and trade them in for fur squares, I see people all the time wanting to buy them. I mean maybe thats not what you're thinking in terms of gold, but it can be done.

This game is about as casual as you can get in a MMO....Except for maybe CoH.

People shouldn't complain about not havnig items that "look uber cool" -- because the stats on those items are the same as the regular items, a lot of times, or sometimes not even comparable.

Honestly, if people want the "best" weapons, why don't you check the collectors that are around the desert or Droknar's? Many of those weapons and offhand items include, not only perfect stats "max damage, max energy", but also additional mods which include 20% (not 10 or 15 percent) skill recharge AND improved casting speed. Those items can easily be attained through normal game play.

And yes, even the "super cool" items like the fiery dragon sword can be found through normal gameplay. While I personally have never had one in my inventory, I have been on missions where I've seen up to three drop. And that's why a trade system is in place -- you might find something you don't want, while someone else has something you do want.

Things aren't entirely unfair in PvP, either. Your PvP pre-made characters already come with max damage weapons and the highest level armor available, while PvE players who have access to Dragon's Lair/Tombs might not even have any of that yet. So they bought or found a Superior Rune, it's not like you don't have access to it. I know, the price is totally unreasonable right now, but perhaps if ArenaNet increases the drops (and if the drop rate increases, farmers gather more and more), then the prices will surely go down, over the course of time. Or so what, they bought 15k armor -- it's not like the extra platinum they spent is going to boost their stats in anyway.

I really don't care about rare weapons, I mostly use collector weapons. Its the rune unlocking that I care about.

Didn't read any of the Replies so may have been said already.

A-net designed the groups of mobs to be killed by a group of people. So the loot is split between the group members evenly. Now when your zoning in and out, in and out, killing the same group of level 20 mobs that is supposed to be a challenge for a group, but doing it solo, obviously its not working as intended.

The way farming should be if they allow it: If you want to farm, kill level 10 monsters over and over, and have fun. A level 20 E/Mo should not be able to solo 6 level 20 mobs at a time. Not working as intended, just cause you don't agree doesn't make them wrong.

My guild knew a great place to farm and I got up to 9 superior runes a day. We're a respectful and truthful guild though so one of our officers informed the devs about the incredibly lucky are to get runes and consequently some monsters now have chillblains in that area making it next to impossible to farm there. Unfortunately I hadn't found a superior vigor yet and suspect it will take quite some time for me to find runes now that my favourite farming area is unfarmable. And for all you whiners out there, STOP WHINING. Just because I have a superior fire rune doesn't mean I can kick your butt in PvP. On the contrary, I get my butt kicked as often as everyone else. The weapon upgrades can hardly be considered a significant advantage either. Guild Wars truly is a game greatly dependent on the skill of the player than the skill of their air magic or healing prayers.

What level 10? mobs. You are lazy and bored.

If A.Net found a place for me to go kill level 24 Justicar, I would do it. I would try to see how many I can survive with on me, and the Exp would be great.

With emphesis, just because there are combos of skills that make upper level mobs weak and powerless does not destroy the spirit of the game.

The skills you are allowed to use are the ones you are allowed to use. If you can find a way to put skills together and win, one or eight person, you have played the game.

Why am I only allowed to use skill combonations that you say are right? Is there some rule somewhere saying that even though I am a Monk secondary, I can only use my primary skills. Or is there a rule saying that while playing the game solo, I cannot use Smite skills?

Come on, let me play the game already.

Doesn't make them right either
But I do understand your point, which is a good one. Most of the farming I've seen they were not the same level.

No one is ever going to be satisfied with any solution. The hardcore farmers will always farm (and complain) as will the people who think it is unfair.
The thing I hope never happens is that they make it easier for everyone rather than make it a challenge. This game already makes things a little too convenient (IMHO).

Ya, with farming nerfed, i can't get my 8k scar patterns. Vellum cost so much to get, even with going to the material crafters

All I have to say on this matter is that my friend would go to underworld or Fissure of Woe that is where he goes to get items and the most amount of gold in the game along with exp right now he has max gold in his vault and on his character that is also the best place for you to find armor it is better that the 15k and it is all off of traders.

There is no "better than the 15K armor". The Fissure Armor costs the same amount of gold, but it's the materials that make it cost more. Looks are different, but statswise, they are the same as the regular 15K stuff, as well as the 1.5K Droknar's Forge armor.

Mm why bring up my old thread again? My opinion has totally changed now. I dont need to farm, I found a faster way to make gold.

If everyone is that desperate for gold, may I suggest you just head over to your local 3rd party site and buy all you need.
Then you can all be super uber, leet, and holier than I can ever imagine.

Of course, then the whining will begin that player x looks prettier than player y..
Jeez...it never ends.

Tal