Hostility Towards Guild Specificity? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

GraceAlone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Phoenix, AZ

Semper Reformanda [SeRe]

16 Jun 2005 at 17:43 - 1

I just have a general question for the community and if this is the wrong forum I apologize and a mod can please move it

I have a guild that is for Christian and we use to share our faith in game (in an unintrusive way). But when posting to recruit in game or on other forums I have had nothing but slanderous, hateful, condemning, and all sorts of other very rude/degrading things said to me. I suppose my question/frustration is that the community (not GWG in general) is very hostile towards...people of faith lets say. Or is it just Christians?

Personally if there is a guild that wants to be Buddhist only, or muslim only, or old married men with 2 kids and a white dog only guilds, that's fine with me. I have no problem with that go right ahead, and if you are recruiting, more power to ya! I'll just turn off the local channel or move to another district if it is bothersome. I've only tried to recruit once so far and got the reactions mentioned above. I had one guy that even said he was going to report me to Anet...not sure on what grounds but...

Guess I just want to get other peoples opinions/thoughts/insights.

Thanks,
GraceAlone

Rasp

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 17:46 - 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

Personally if there is a guild that wants to be Buddhist only, or muslim only, or old married men with 2 kids and a white dog only guilds, that's fine with me. I have no problem with that go right ahead, and if you are recruiting, more power to ya!

Agreed.

Ignore the ignorant, do as you wish.

Dragonkin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Infront of my pc, UK.

Dragon Guard Alliance

R/Mo

16 Jun 2005 at 17:50 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

the community (not GWG in general) is very hostile towards...people of faith lets say. Or is it just Christians?

I'm not sure about other places in the world, but in the UK Christians are the only relgious group that can be openly abused and messed about without any outcry at all, no-one dares tell muslims they can't have there holidays, but when we want a Happy Christmas sign up on our city hall we can't have it because it "may offend people of other religions".

It's a complete joke, just because christians aren't seen as a minority we get trampled on in the rush to be completely PC and not offend anyone.

Kuku Monk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Me/E

16 Jun 2005 at 17:52 - 4

To be a Christian is to be persecuted.

Matthew 24:9
Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

Dragonkin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Infront of my pc, UK.

Dragon Guard Alliance

R/Mo

16 Jun 2005 at 17:54 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuku Monk

To be a Christian is to be persecuted.

Matthew 24:9
Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

Very true indeed.

Synthos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 17:56 - 6

You said that your group is unintrusive yet you say your trying to share your faith in the game. You really need to step away from your faith for a while to really see why people are annoyed with this, mabey watch some George Carlin for a while. I guess it just comes down to, people dont want you to share your faith with them just as much as you dont want to hear a White power activist clan, So please, take into consideration other people.

Cap'n Hoek

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Sunny California

Ancient Avatars

16 Jun 2005 at 17:56 - 7

Sounds like you've met with the bottom of the barrel in GW. There are plenty of people in game that don't know the first thing about tolerance, or kindness, or patience, etc. Good luck with your guild and don't let the immaturity of some bring you down.

GraceAlone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Phoenix, AZ

Semper Reformanda [SeRe]

16 Jun 2005 at 17:57 - 8

Yep, I understand that we are persecuted and abused, but I have never in my life (and I want to be a pastor!) had some much hostility. Glad to get some "symathy" that's what I love about GWG!

Edit:
By saying we are non intrusive what I mean is this. I recruited saying in all chat this [b]exactly[/]

Quote:

Are you a Christian? Then consider Servants of the Son for your guild!

that's it! I wasn't standing on the corner trying to spam the living daylights out of the server, or jumping to a district every three seconds spamming the same message. And this was the first time that I had ever done it! We're not trying to force people to be Christians! But we are trying to meet other Christians and talk with people about the gospel. If someone that I grouped with told me to keep my religion to myself, then I would politely not engage such a person in a religious conversation.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

16 Jun 2005 at 17:57 - 9

I think I actually saw some of your recruiting in Ascalon City a few days back. I thought nothing of it, as everyone should, because frankly, religious hatred is stupid. There are only two things I hate in this world:

People who are intolerant of other people's religions...

...and the Amish.

Kuku Monk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Me/E

16 Jun 2005 at 17:58 - 10

It's cool that you got the gutts to make a stand of faith in an online game. Keep it up!

Synthos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:00 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

Yep, I understand that we are persecuted and abused, but I have never in my life (and I want to be a pastor!) had some much hostility. Glad to get some "symathy" that's what I love about GWG!

Being insulted by a bunch of 13 year olds is hardly being persecuted and abused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

I think I actually saw some of your recruiting in Ascalon City a few days back. I thought nothing of it, as everyone should, because frankly, religious hatred is stupid. There are only two things I hate in this world:

People who are intolerant of other people's religions...

...and the Amish.

I live in a town with the Amish, they are really nice people (North East, Ohio). Our wallmart is actually caterting to them.

Deathlord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

PVP Ranger: Does Stuff Fast

XXX

W/Mo

16 Jun 2005 at 18:06 - 12

I don't see a reason why any religion would bash other's. NO religion that I know of (Cult's don't count) purposely tells the people to bash other god's or the people that worship them, insted, they'd rather you help them to see the light or watch them burn in hell if they don't (Couldn't resist). I see no problem with any guild based on any religion as long as they themselves arn't jackasses. There can be a group of Asians/muslims/mormons (I'm not sure if i spelled the 2 m'words right), if they're nice all around and good people then I wouldn't care. It's stupid to spend time bashing people verbally with digital text in a game.

Stev0

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Halifax, NS, Canada

16 Jun 2005 at 18:09 - 13

We used to play DnD with a GM who was a Presbyterian Minister. The only religion brought to the game was that all characters were Good. There were no 'Gods', only 'The One'. Anyone who gambled were told to 'deduct the amount of gold from your purses'.

I don't have a problem with a Guild that has a theme. As long as that theme is'nt forced on to the public at large.

Synthos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:15 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathlord

I don't see a reason why any religion would bash other's. NO religion that I know of (Cult's don't count) purposely tells the people to bash other god's or the people that worship them, insted, they'd rather you help them to see the light or watch them burn in hell if they don't (Couldn't resist). I see no problem with any guild based on any religion as long as they themselves arn't jackasses. There can be a group of Asians/muslims/mormons (I'm not sure if i spelled the 2 m'words right), if they're nice all around and good people then I wouldn't care. It's stupid to spend time bashing people verbally with digital text in a game.

The terrorists that smashed into the world trade center killing thousands were following their religion, take a look at all the fighting in the middle east as well. Religion is the basis behind all wars, that and George Bush. How would you feel if someone was occupying your country and telling you that you shouldnt belive in Jesus, that your god was a fake and you should "see the light".

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

16 Jun 2005 at 18:19 - 15

Personally, I don't care how guilds recruit, so long as it doesn't affect me.

Next time you try to recruit, try leaving religion out of it. If you still get flamed, then the people are simply morons with no life and nothing better to do.

While I myself do not care for religion, I do support any guild with common interests (and religion would happen to qualify as a common interest

)

Just don't start any wars

Gedscho

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

the Zen Men

Mo/W

16 Jun 2005 at 18:21 - 16

my english isnt that good, and this requires complex words, so be patient with me.

as i, and i believe many other young people too, feel that a lot of bad things have been done in christianities, or even worse, gods name.
whereas it may be stupid turning your back to the church, because someone burned galileo a loooooong time ago, it is NOT stupid turning your back, when you realize it only a few years ago, THEY FINALLY APOLOGIZED.

you know, where i come from, christianity, or catholicism even more stands for hippocrism. i would never follow a group that preaches "love em all" but locks down their churches at night, so homeless cant sleep in there. but i guess i am talking crap, because the few places where homeless can stay are generally run by some christian organisation.
but that doesnt matter, because what i basically wanna say is:

the whole christian mythology is a two-thumbs-up but i guess the catholics and whatever all those subgroups are called have done a lot of things they rather should not have been even thinking about. ( i mean, hey, NOOOOOObody expects the spanish inquisition.

)
i do not understand, why someone must react as harsh as you have been experiencing, but i DO understand some.... fears.... people feel, when they hear about christianity.

ooh btw... could someone teach me about some bad things that have been done in buddhisms name, plz?

Than

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Texas

UGLY

Me/N

16 Jun 2005 at 18:22 - 17

Quote:

The terrorists that smashed into the world trade center killing thousands were following their religion, take a look at all the fighting in the middle east as well. Religion is the basis behind all wars, that and George Bush. How would you feel if someone was occupying your country and telling you that you shouldnt belive in Jesus, that your god was a fake and you should "see the light".

1. You're an idiot.
2. Jesus Christ you're an idiot.
3. Relgion isn't the basis of all wars. Hasn't been the basis of most wars. Such gradios generalizations are moronic.
4. Guess which President brought the Civil War in the south of Sudan to a halt(for the time being). I'll give you a hint, it was a US president in the last 10 years and not Clinton.
5. Did I mention you're a freaking idiot?
6. Who exactly is occupying a country and telling them which way to practice? Other then China?
7. Sweet Mary mother of Christ you're stupid.

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

16 Jun 2005 at 18:23 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedscho

ooh btw... could someone teach me about some bad things that have been done in buddhisms name, plz?

Heh, to my knowledge, Buddhism hasn't done anything (caused wars, inquisition, etc.). I looked into Buddhism for a little while, and it seemed pretty nice

Corwin_Andros

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

Wayward Wanderers

W/E

16 Jun 2005 at 18:23 - 19

I'll say this up front.. I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN.. nor am I Muslim, Jewish, Buhdist or even Aethiest. I am a Pagan (you can even insert Witch if you so choose) .. not very devout mind you.. but Pagan none the less. I understand a bit about persecution.

I kinda feel for you getting abused. I'm a pretty tolerant person, but one thing that gets on my nerves faster than most is having someone of religion.. ANY religion... come preaching at me or spreading the word. Especially in a game.

I have about as much interest in sharing your religion in-game as you wuold likely feel about sharing mine.

My advise would be to limit advertising you are a christian guild to your recruiting drives and otherwise keep the sharing amongst your guildmates. Pretty much something to the effect of "Guild *****, a devout Christian guild, is recruiting.. blah blah blah.." and leave it at that.

Don't attempt to share your faith with other players in-game. As seriously as some people take their games, it is primarily a form of entertainment or escapism for most.. and definitely not the place for "sharing" religion. It irritates people when they feel like their fun is being intruded on.

As long as you follow these guidelines, you'd do well to try and ignore the asinine bunches that harrass you. If you aren't trying to "share" with others and are harrassed just because you are trying to form or recruit a Christians Only guild, you could actually report the harrassment to ANet and have a decent chance of having some action taken against the harrassers.

Try and have fun with the game.. and if you get the kind of people you are looking for to play with on a regular basis and can discuss the wonders of your faith while doing so.. more power to you.

dansamy

Chasing Dragons

Join Date: May 2005

Lost in La-La Land

LFGuild

Mo/Me

16 Jun 2005 at 18:25 - 20

Well, I ran into outright preaching in Ascalon (post-searing) the other day. I do not know if it was a member of your guild or not, but I was very upset over it. If I wish to hear preaching, I will go to church or turn the channel on my TV to the Christian station, which coincedentally had Carmen on the other night. I play my game as a fantasy escape from the real world. I do not wish to have your religion imposed on me while I'm visiting said fantasy-land.

DarrenJasper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:25 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

Edit:
By saying we are non intrusive what I mean is this. I recruited saying in all chat this [b]exactly[/]
that's it! I wasn't standing on the corner trying to spam the living daylights out of the server, or jumping to a district every three seconds spamming the same message. And this was the first time that I had ever done it! We're not trying to force people to be Christians! But we are trying to meet other Christians and talk with people about the gospel. If someone that I grouped with told me to keep my religion to myself, then I would politely not engage such a person in a religious conversation.

If that's all you were doing, I have no problem with it. No different from a guild narrowing their applicant pool down to all females, or 21+, or above level 20.

But I have to admit I am a little wary of devout Christians who I don't know (because the ones I do are all awesome), and that's mostly because Christianity does seem to have the most aggressive recruitment policy of any major religion. I have to deal with people shouting at me through loudspeakers on the street and waving signs and pamphlets in my face, knocking on my door and calling me on the phone on a pretty regular basis. I can see that isn't you so it's an unfair bias and forgive me for my gut reaction, but some people may deal with the same thing and won't make that distinction right away.

I also kind of know how you feel. In America, it's unthinkable to denounce any race, religion, class or gender.... unless it's Christians or white males, who seem to be fair game. I'm not Christian but as a white male the double-standard really bugs me. I don't own any slaves, I'm not oppressing anyone, and I shouldn't have to pay for any amount of stigma from forefathers I never knew.

DarrenJasper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:27 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Than

1. You're an idiot.
2. Jesus Christ you're an idiot.
3. Relgion isn't the basis of all wars. Hasn't been the basis of most wars. Such gradios generalizations are moronic.
4. Guess which President brought the Civil War in the south of Sudan to a halt(for the time being). I'll give you a hint, it was a US president in the last 10 years and not Clinton.
5. Did I mention you're a freaking idiot?
6. Who exactly is occupying a country and telling them which way to practice? Other then China?
7. Sweet Mary mother of Christ you're stupid.

If you turn this into a debate over the merits or failings of President Bush... you will lose.

Than

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Texas

UGLY

Me/N

16 Jun 2005 at 18:28 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

If you turn this into a debate over the merits or failings of President Bush... you will lose.

Try it.

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

16 Jun 2005 at 18:29 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

If you turn this into a debate over the merits or failings of President Bush... you will lose.

Not lose; fail miserably. "Loss" would infer that it was an actual contest to begin with

Eugaet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

US

Righteous Apathy [RA]

16 Jun 2005 at 18:29 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonkin

I'm not sure about other places in the world, but in the UK Christians are the only relgious group that can be openly abused and messed about without any outcry at all...

Seems to be the way it is in the US as well. Even in the 'Bible Belt'.

If that recruiting line is all you say, then I don't see what the problem is. It's not like your standing on a corner waving a bible in the air, calling everyone who passes a sinner. I say more power to ya.

Mountain Man

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

N/E

16 Jun 2005 at 18:30 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuku Monk

To be a Christian is to be persecuted.

Matthew 24:9
Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

It should also be noted that few American Christians really understand what persecution is. We can openly hold a church service and our right to do so is legally protected. Try that in a communist nation like China and you put your very life on the line.

So I really wouldn't consider a few harmless insults in a gaming environment to represent persecution. But the fact that Christianity is one of the world's least tolerated world views is self-evident.

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

16 Jun 2005 at 18:30 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugaet

It's not like your standing on a corner waving a bible in the air, calling everyone who passes a sinner.

Isn't there an NPC that DOES do that though?

Corwin_Andros

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

Wayward Wanderers

W/E

16 Jun 2005 at 18:31 - 28

Darren.. Than..

Let's not drag politics into our religious discussion..

If you two want to bash eachother over political beliefs..PLEASE do it through PM. I think the majority of us had enough politicking during last year's election campaign to satisfy us for the next 3 or 4 years.

Kryss

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:31 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthos

You said that your group is unintrusive yet you say your trying to share your faith in the game. You really need to step away from your faith for a while to really see why people are annoyed with this, mabey watch some George Carlin for a while. I guess it just comes down to, people dont want you to share your faith with them just as much as you dont want to hear a White power activist clan, So please, take into consideration other people.

Your comments were rude and inconsiderate.

He’s not preaching in game nor is he here, he’s simply stating he belongs to a Christian guild that is interested in others that share the same values in life "and" game.

There is a real simple solution should you run across him in game and don’t care to hear. Report it if you feel he's in violation or /ignore works wonders!

DarrenJasper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:31 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Than

Try it.

Are you sure about that, considering your only arguments thus far are that he allegedly halted the war in Sudan (as if that has occured in a vacuum) and that people who don't like him are stupid?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

Not lose; fail miserably. "Loss" would infer that it was an actual contest to begin with

Good point. No use arguing whether the Earth is round.

Dreamsmith

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Minnesota

Beguine Guild [BGN]

16 Jun 2005 at 18:33 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Than

Try it.

Don't. At least not in this thread, it's off-topic -- you can talk about President Bush elsewhere.

As far as religion goes, the motivation for crashing planes into the World Trade Center was not religious. If they had wanted to strike out at Christians, they'd have crashed planes into the Vatican. They wanted to strike out at Americans, who they don't generally perceive as having any religion at all, but that's not really their beef either.

Mountain Man

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

N/E

16 Jun 2005 at 18:35 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthos

Religion is the basis behind all wars...

I'd say religion is the excuse rather than the cause. Most often it's greed or fear that inspires war.

Than

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Texas

UGLY

Me/N

16 Jun 2005 at 18:35 - 33

Quote:

Are you sure about that, considering your only arguments thus far are that he allegedly halted the war in Sudan (as if that has occured in a vacuum) and that people who don't like him are stupid?

Which was in response to all wars are caused by Bush and Religion? I was pointing out a obvious flaw in that posters asertation.

As a student majoring in history, yes, he was a LARGE idiot for making such a generalization. The posters view of the president had jack didally to do with it. Such statements are moronic and instantly recived response stating as such from when if and when I see them.

Talizar

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:35 - 34

"Are you a Christian? Then consider Servants of the Son for your guild!"

Not that i am personally offended by this, but i can see how some people would be offended or insulted by this.

What if i was "Are you white? Consider drinking from this fountain?" you dont think black people would find this offensive?

By your recruiting line u are implying that if u are not a christian u are not "good" enough to join the guild.

Than

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Texas

UGLY

Me/N

16 Jun 2005 at 18:36 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

Don't. At least not in this thread, it's off-topic.

Ill cut it out in here.

Synthos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:37 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryss

Your comments were rude and inconsiderate.

He’s not preaching in game nor is he here, he’s simply stating he belongs to a Christian guild that is interested in others that share the same values in life "and" game.

There is a real simple solution should you run across him in game and don’t care to hear. Report it if you feel he's in violation or /ignore works wonders!

Your right i was a bit off saying that, im just really frustrated and tired of being confronted (not waying you were). I even get confronted on a daily basis by preaching bums.

Dreamsmith

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Minnesota

Beguine Guild [BGN]

16 Jun 2005 at 18:37 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talizar

"Are you a Christian? Then consider Servants of the Son for your guild!"

Not that i am personally offended by this, but i can see how some people would be offended or insulted by this.

What if i was "Are you white? Consider drinking from this fountain?" you dont think black people would find this offensive?

By your recruiting line u are implying that if u are not a christian u are not "good" enough to join the guild.

No it's not! If I make a guild for anime fans and spam, "Are you an anime fan? Consider joining the Otaku Guild!", I am not implying that if you are not an anime fan you are not "good" enough to join. Just that you probably wouldn't be interested...

DarrenJasper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:39 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talizar

"Are you a Christian? Then consider Servants of the Son for your guild!"

Not that i am personally offended by this, but i can see how some people would be offended or insulted by this.

What if i was "Are you white? Consider drinking from this fountain?" you dont think black people would find this offensive?

By your recruiting line u are implying that if u are not a christian u are not "good" enough to join the guild.

I don't think that's true. "Drink from this public fountain" is not the same as "join my personal club". I'm not upset that I can't be in the NAACP, nor do I figure they think they're better than me just because they want their forum to be exclusive to people of a certain kind.

Synthos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:39 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

I'd say religion is the excuse rather than the cause. Most often it's greed or fear that inspires war.

Good point, but relgion is still a factor. It really shows where the modern man's priorities lie

Hehe.. i wonder if people are upset because you have to kneel to the Guild Wars false gods, like Balthazar and Dwana.

Kuku Monk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Me/E

16 Jun 2005 at 18:39 - 40

Let's kill the debate and actually go play the game for a change!