Hostility Towards Guild Specificity?

A fresh new round of oh so fun terrorist attacks

*sigh* They are helping the people in need. In a culture where we define ourselves by rules and traditions, when that is all taken away suddenly what is left? Self preservation. And naturally this begins to infiringe on other peoples self preservation thus the lack of social structure. Looting of food, harsh protection over territory and goods. Thats when they need the red cross and national guard to come in.

I think it would be a LOT more than that, since the Islamic extremists have yet to attract mass appeal to their cause even in the face of the Iraq and Afghan war. Blocking off access to their holiest site would be something even non-Muslims will condemn.

A more valid comparison would be, what if Muslims decided their holy land was actually Dallas, became outraged that it was in the hands of infidels, and cut a bloody swath through the U.S. in order to reclaim it?

I think there would be more terrorist attacks because they would be able to recruit more people. When you enrage an entire section of the world by taking something they value (Mecca, etc.), it is bound to stir up MASS anti-US (or whoever else is doing it) sentiment

Sentimentalize or commend the seizure of private property? I hardly think the tone of my post implies so; no ethical, responsible person could condone this behavior (oh, wait... the US government also has that right. But I digress.). However, it did happen prior to the war, and many of these properties/interests were put in the hands of colleagues of Hitler's... I don't believe I said the properties were absorbed by the state at all, but I apologize if my post could be construed to imply it.

Yes, but instead of sparking off another 'round of terrorist attacks', we'd probably see full scale war adopted by even moderate Muslims (which is what the terrorists have been trying to achieve all this time). In other words, a lot worse.

Not really. That was the land of Jesus. Had been recognized as such from the get go. And was probably THE major pilgramage site for Christians for the time period. Not to mention had been Christian land until the Moslim conquests in the 7th century.

I doubt the Muslims were living there, having "recognized" it as the "land of Jesus", just to piss everyone off.

No but the Seljuk Turks occupying the land, barring and harrasing christian pilgrams, and destroying a major church kinda pissed some people off.

Molims had live in and ruled that land for nearly 4 centuries w/o a attempted Christian retaking(with the exception of the Byzantines). The pope didn't get up one morning and say "You know, I really could go for some Falaffal. I know, Crusades!"

Edit:I would also like to add the Moslims knew damn well where Jesus lived and died. Hell Mary is mentioned more in the Koran then the Bible.

Edit(yes again):I would additionaly like to add the there is some conjecture as to the religious make up of the Holy Land at the period. It hasn't been proven that a majority of the population was Moslim. Or Christian for that matter.

Yes, Jesus is a revered man by Muslims. They just don't deify him.

Muslims were also happy to allow Christian pilgrims in the Holy Land for centuries. It was the Turk invaders in the 11th century who sparked off the First Crusade by banning them.

Shouldn't this thread be in the "Off-topic and the Absurd" forum? While it started out with a reasonable question, it's drifted pretty far from GW territory...

And to the OP's question...

I've seen your guild's adverts ingame, and didn't have a problem with them. I'll be honest that my initial reaction wasn't good though... while I respect any guild's desire to have membership requirements, and think it's a good idea for christians who want to play together to have a guild, I really don't like encountering evangelical proselytizing in an online fantasy based video game. And some of the adverts I saw we're a little more than just a "christian guild looking for members" kinda thing...

Frankly, I think it's somewhat hypocritical that a "real" Christian guild would even exist for a game like this... the game is about killing as many other living things as possible. In other words...

Jesus wouldn't play Guild Wars.

What? Your saying Jesus didn't eat meat? I coulda sworn there was this whole bit about Fish.


Edit:and I almost forgot, Exorcising possessed pigs and driving them into a lake(and killing them).

I have strong doubts that the Red Cross was formed due to a fear of disaster-stricken people becoming barbaric and waging resource war on the more fortunate people nearby.

As another example, the European man who started directing traffic in New York during the city-wide blackout. Do you think this man was motivated by fear of barbarism? What about foreign aid workers in Iraq? Do you think they put themselves in that much danger because they are afraid the middle east and subsequently the whole world will fall into chaos if they don't?

I think you are letting the negative behavior of a small percentage of the population define the general state of the population. There are some people who are concerned with things above and beyond self-preservation, regardless of their immediate circumstances.

Um, last time i checked, digital bits were not considered life.

It's about the concept though...

Would you not say Grand Theft Auto is an "immora"l (or "unethical" for the rest of us), even though it is not "real"? The concept behind GTA is horrible

Best wishes for your guild. With the wrath of the Lord Jesus on your team, how can you possibly fail?

Let us pray for those who smite us.

If he did hed probably be a monk

Could you imagine playing PVP against Jesus
Hed probably win

First, someone wants to recruit Christians into a guild where I guess they can pray before going to ambush and kill usually minding-their-own-business monsters and take their stuff, I have no problem with it. Seems an odd thing for Christians to band around but again, no problem.

I do have a couple problems with Christianity and with the current American state of Christianity. The Religious Right (TM), instead of loving everyone and being non-judgmental and turning the other cheek, has become the source of bigotry in our times with their hatred and discrimination against gays in the secular world. They "defend marriage" from people who want to be married while ignoring the fact that evangelicals have a higher divorce rate than the average couple. They are filling the same exact role (and usually using the same religious rhetoric) that the people trying to keep segregation in place and those trying to stop interracial marriage used. The followers of the Prince of Peace go to funerals of people killed for being gay and shout "Fags Burn in Hell" to the grieving family members. These same people are feted and given money from the Bush administration. They are MAINSTREAM, not out in left field Christians now. They've institutionalized bigotry in half their state constitutions, all led by a brazen political objective that had nothing to do with Christianity, but by raising fear of the other and making people feel persecuted when they most decidedly are not.

That's the next complaint. Someone got ridiculed in a chat in a game over their Christian themed guild and someone is comparing it to the persecution that caused early Christians like Stephen to be crucified upside-down. When people burn down your church and kill your people, then you are being persecuted. If nobody does anything about it, then you're seeing official persecution. Being flamed in a chat room in a game is so far from being persecuted as to ruin the word's meaning. Try to get some perspective people.

Christians run the country. They've got political power. They're using it in a variety of ways that run antithetical to a "Christian nation".

I wanted to mention something about the religious aspect of wars that were being argued about. Religion is often used to rally people for a cause, usually by cynical leaders pressing an agenda. The rally against gay marriage to give better electoral chances for Republicans for example. Riled people up in election season sending out pamphlets showing two men kissing and a big "Allowed!" on it and Bible with a big X on it saying "Banned!". Truly I'll have more respect for the Christian church when they don't fall for such imbecilic crap.

Where the people arguing for the religious aspect of war have things right is that when it comes to religion, nobody has the provably right answer. When an argument over which religion is right comes along, it cannot be decided, which leads to some form of coercion or force being used to decide the issue. We can argue about whether global warming is real because we can measure and eventually know a real, true, answer. Short of Armageddon and the Second Coming happening we can't do that with religion. So we've got to try to just live together and quit hating each other for what we believe. But I don't believe I'd be remiss in asking that those who profess a belief in loving everyone and turning the other cheek start doing that too.

Oh, and a "culture of life" that likes war and supports the death penalty? Whatever.

Nah, he'd be beaten by a mob of psycho warrior/necros

Quoted for emphasis.

I have to agree with everything in your arguments. One of the best posts in this thread by far

If you have seen members recruiting in a way that is offensive please, please, please send me a PM/whisper of the individuals name so that I can speak with them. There are several other Christian guilds out there so don't be confused that it is SoS

And to your comment about playing a killing type game...hmm...last time I checked we were still allowed to have fun. I also play some FPS is that ok? It's killing made even worse because it's people! Games are games...*sigh*...

Truly peaceful people have no desire to play violent games.

My gay friend that i mentioned actually finds some of the extreme christian groups to be hillarious. Like he recently showed me a picture of this child holding up a poster on the side of the road proclaiming "Fags Blew up the Space Shuttle!"

Yay! finally done with my last final
Yes im working too..

GTA is a great game, and no more unethical than movies like The Godfather, or for that matter, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

Only people who have trouble separating fantasy from reality, or fictional stories from real life, are going to find it immoral to enjoy such games or movies, regardless of how pacifistic their personal ethics may be.

I've got no problem with people having fun, regardless of their religious background. It's when said game then gets turned into an arena to "share our faith in game" that the inherent hypocrisy becomes a little too much to take.

I find gays and other groups who are frowned upon by the religious right to be WAY more tolerant than these christians.

And these christian groups create non-stop comedy for me

Good point. But please, don't drag such classics as The Godfather down to the level of random games

Godfather Boxset. pwned

Edit: Sorry for double post

Depends on what you mean by "truly peaceful people". To make your statement true, I think you'd have to define that term to only include people who either don't exist or are extremely rare.

Real world pacificists have as much urge to kill other people as anyone else. What distinguishes them is that they refuse to actually do it, they think it's wrong.

Most truly peaceful people (in the sense of real world people who actually exist and are peaceful) have as much desire to commit violence as anyone else. They just don't do it. It's not that they lack a desire for violence, just that their desire to not commit violence is greater.

If they enjoy playing a video game instead to indulge that desire without actually committing violence, that's fine, and perfectly consistent with their values.

Never claimed to be perfect and never will in this life. Personally I enjoy being able to kick some Charr butt, it's great stress relief

Never really got that statement, our imperfections makes us who we are. Without our imperfections what are we? Whordes of minds thinking in the same tune, non deviating; I dont want to be a computer in the afterlife.

So by this logic then all of us who play this game support the killing of living beings?

That's quite a stretch.

From my point of view, it would be immoral/unethical to give GTA to a child to play, just as it would be to give them any other adult rated material. Otherwise, i don't see it as possessing any moral qualities, as it's not real. Is it immoral to play a WWII sim knowing that in reality so many people died during that conflict, and yet you're being entertained by sniping germans with well placed head shots?

If satan can be found under every stone, does God lie behind every cloud?
I'm Roman Catholic; aye, the very epitome of the evil incarnate zionist world domination team.
I don't force my religion or beliefs on anyone.
If you ask, I will answer, but I do not initiate the conversation.

That said, in my opinion real world religion has no place in a make believe online game.
It is no more approrpiate than introducing current events and world politics into the game.

My 2cp, but consider - in "exercising" your faith, who are you annoying?
That is what we have prayer, worship and church for.

Regards,

Talesin (the evil incarnate) Darkbriar

rofl .. christian guild wars guilds.. pray to jesus in order to win the favor of the gods

I can't stand people who try to spread their stupid faith. If I want your faith i'll find you and harass you about it. Everyone knows Christians are the kings of this shit, "Believe what I do or you'll go to hell." Yea, makes sence to me. Sorry vast majority of the world, you worship false Gods, have fun burning in the firey bowels of hell.

I have Christain friends, ones who dont try to "save" me, they just keep their beliefs to themselves and are happy thinking they're going to a better place when they die. I also know people who try to force their religion on me, make me think im a bad person because I dont belive some guy was the son of God. My favoite part about these people is that they are usually as big of asshole sinners as I am, and they're only Christian as long as it doesn't inconvience them.

Do everyone you'll ever meet in life a huge favor and keep your religion to yourself.

Note: I was born and raised as a Christian.
/end rant

Crude but true, i was also born and raised a christian

I don't get that statement. Why would two perfect minds think the same tune without deviation? This strikes me as a non-theistic form of monotheism: the belief that there's only one right way, one ideal way, so any perfect mind would be forced along the same path. Nonsense, I say. As the great prophets of Perl intone, TIMTOWTDI! (There Is More Than One Way To Do It!) A perfect mind would not be so constrained, indeed a perfect mind could see the infinite alternatives. Only lesser minds are so constrained.

Infinite alternatives to what tho? There are no problems in heaven. Im not sure how your chemical driven mind would change in such a way, if its possible i want an upgrade! The concept of heaven is as appealing to me as death, either way you lose everything you know and love, who you are..

Well, in that we agree. Heaven is as silly a concept as Hell. No man has ever been infinitely good, and thus deserving of an infinite reward, just as no man has never been infinitely evil, and thus deserving of an eternal punishment. It follows from this that either there is no Heaven and no Hell (in the standard eternal reward/punishment sense), or that God is infinitely unjust. I find the latter proposition absurd, so I'm forced to conclude the former.

Oh bother...here we go on the crazy train....
Well, as is so fondly quoted on the EQ2 forums:

"In before the lock."