Sick and Tired of the monk abuse

I do a lot of quests without healer. When I know that I will be ejected, I'll keep my mouth shut. Am I asking for abuse? I know that. I can take the heat, when I know it's coming. I have points in healing, and so should your Mesmer, Warrior, assassin, Ranger or Necro. Learn to play without the healer, and you'll discover a whole new world

And I would agree with that except in obvious places like the Kryta missions where there is a preponderence of undead just asking to be smote .

However, if the mission/quest is going well, why shouldn't a monk be dealing damage? My retired Healer carried Spiteful Spirit as her elite (otherwise set for full heal) just to relieve the boredom. Very seldom did she run dry of energy and the ones who died were either squishies trying to tank (hey, even a healer extraordinaire can only do so much) or warriors caught in a hell-of-their-own-making (i.e. stupid aggro. Note to warriors: Charge!, Sprint and other running skills are not for running far ahead of the party to engage without back-up).

I suspect that Tavish (the Smiter) will be set for Heal more often than not when in a PuG, but if I'm henching it, then I'll go smite.....or ranged

If everyone brings enough self heals then they wouldnt need a monk and would go without one. If they invite a monk and expect him to heal that means they want to focus on something else(like damage) and let the monk focus on heals.

A monk might be a support character, be s/he's nobody's slave. In this game I meet so many people who are beyond healing, that I don't see the point of being a "full" healer. Many times my monk was the last one standing, without any ability to kill the monsters that were camping the bodys of my mates. Don't tell me that I should have brought rebirth, because when you follow the story-line, you don't get it before Lion's or Yaks (I think).

There are 2 exceptions to this and that is if there is a Mesmer and an Elementalist in the party they don't have great self heals especially in poison water or any.That is where a Monk comes in and can clear it up.I am not sure about Sins or Rits as they are new and I haven't played one full out.

You are correct in way but as that is the way it use to be but the skill trainers have more skills you can get it in Ascalon but I prefer Restorelife as it doesn't use up to much energy or drain you afterwards.This is even if I am protect and I like Res. chant as well.

Didn't you say before the entire reason you play a monk is because you have constant horrible delay - somewhere around an entire second's worth of it - and found all you could really do in such a situation is stand back and heal?

Also, you're no more a slave as a healer to your team than warriors are for dishing out damage for it. It's a cooperative relationship. You're simply fooling others' into thinking you are what they expected for your own enjoyment, whether it hurts the team or not. If you feel the way you've said, why not be honest about it? At least then they could prepare, or find someone else who better fits their group's ideas.

Nobody is telling the warrior what to bring, and most people create a warrior because they like to chop heads

I use Zealot's Fire and Smite Hex because they target my allies. That way I am still in my role as healer and only have to target the red bars. Targeting a moving object is almost impossible for me, since they are never where I see them.
Using Zealot's, I can heal someone and smite their attackers at the same time. Child's play
Do you like to see my skill list?

If you're tired of the abuse you get as a monk, then don't play one or don't join PUGs (which is essentially the same as not playing one if you don't belong to a good guild or have a regular bunch of friends you can group with). I find monking so much more enjoyable when I'm out with guildies--people seem more relaxed about everything and aren't just there because they want to rush through a mission.

Note that I've been out with a lot of bad monks. I don't think they deserve abuse, as no player does, but they definitely should consider playing something else.

One of my rangers is a beastmaster. Without her pet, she's much less effective, not to mention that her pet is often the best tank in the group. She does her best to keep her pet alive, but when a monk pitches in, it's great. Good monks always recognize early on how much her pet is helping the group and keep the pet healed. Bad monks don't.

No one's telling a warrior what to bring because they assume it's going to be tanking, just as they don't tell a monk exactly what to bring because they assume it's going to be "monking" - if that warrior brought a nuking build and started firing from a distance, the team'd probably be just as annoyed.

Anyway, my point is, it isn't wrong for a group to ask for a complete and dedicated healer - unfairly tricking them for your own reasons is, though.

Communication is the essence, because most rangers have only their remaining points in beastmastery and don't carry any pet skills.
I can recognize a strong pet, but it takes at least 2 battles.

It is wrong, but the only option if you don't want to be kicked. The people are tough on non-cookie builds.

You really don't have a clue, do you?
A smiting monk is on par with a nuker when it comes to dealing out dmg, if you know what your doing. Then you go Mo/E and you out dmg the nuker easy.
Healing/protection can very effectevly be done by a Rit, even a N/Mo can heal very well with an endless(soulreaping) supply off energy, specialy in cantha with the big mob's.
Please start thinking outside the cockie box

I'd be the first to say that I hate to see groups wanting cookie-cutter builds, but if that's what they're asking for, it *is* wrong to claim you're something you're not, or to knowingly not mention that you happen to be a smiter, when you know they're most likely looking for a healer. It's not fair to the players in the group.

I'd say 99% of the time (on Euro servers at least) monks are expected to be healers. Then if there is already a monk in the party the 2nd monk may be asked if they're prot or heal. Smiters are by and large unwelcomed/not the expectation of the party.

As for bad monks, well fair point but even factoring that in, the monk class is the singularly most abused class. Maybe crazy wammos and sometimes tanking eles might get a bit of stick (ESPECIALLY if they have the nerve to complain about dying afterwards) but most of the time mesmers, rangers, eles, necros etc who die a lot/don't play too well don't receive much stick. The same can't be said of monk players, regardless if they play well or badly and that's probably one reason why there aren't many of them around.

It's not about wanting to be treated special or have people grovelling at your feet - just to be treated the same as most other classes i.e. not being blamed for everything and other peoples' mistakes. A lot of people seem to forget there's a player behind the monk as well, who may be spending most of the time just looking at some bars moving back and forth and changing colour. How exciting..

All it takes is one whiner in the group to ruin the gameplay for up to 7 others.


edit: let's for argument's sake say ritualists take over the monk role. What will happen is they'll just become the most abused class and take all the flack instead

My monk is only lvl 18, but with lvl 13 healing, 6 divine and 6 smiting, I am technically a healer
I also have lvl 6 Inspiration Magic, but that doesn't make me a mesmer either.

My monk has never been verbally abused. She does her job, and no one (except a few over-zealous wammos) has ever complained about her healing/prot abilities. What I find abusive is that other players, desperate for a monk, will actually lie to me to get me to join their teams - then expect me to stay and complete the mission with them. I have in the past, but no longer.

Of course the monk should be one of the last one's standing(in pve), most likely your gonna be standing in the backline healing. Which is why monks are the most common class expected to carry a res.

If your talking about builds before lions arch then you dont exactly have hardly any smiting skills either.

But of course the skill trainers have any skills that are unlocked so anyone who has played the game for a bit will most likely have rebirth unlocked I would think.

There are a few smite skills available. Not all skills are available everywhere. You have to progress. My monk which had most of them unlocked was deleted. I have rebirth now. Despite my attitude here, I am still not a bad healer. When I tell my team mates that I am a healer, that is what they get. The smiting is what I do for fun, because I am not that far yet that I have to spam heals of over 200 life. Healing lvl 13 with Divine lvl 9 should be able to keep players alive at least until the desert. If it doesn't, tough luck.

My monk is my second oldest characters at about 1 yr old now as well as one of my most played. From my experience I generally don't see much abuse when I play as him. Sure every once in a blue moon someone will get mad when they die, but that has been a very rare occurence.

(emphasis mine)

My monk, Cait (Tyrian, retired), had very few if any complaints about her healing. And trust me, it was a long process to fully learn and understand how to be a good healer. Just because you have a "Mo" and linen armor/tats with a full skillbar of healing skills does not mean you are a good healer! Luckily, a fellow player monk took Cait under her tutelage and saved her from a very early retirement rather than after endgame.

Bad healers are known all over the internet

I dont really see how this picture fits into a monk thread^^
its not like Warlocks are known for their healing abilities
But anyway I know the problem from my WoW time with my warlock

My monk is my second oldest characters at about 1 yr old now as well as one of my most played. From my experience I generally don't see much abuse when I play as him. Sure every once in a blue moon someone will get mad when they die, but that has been a very rare occurence.

It just shows that when you ask for a healer, you better make darn sure it is one, or you're dead. Not every cute girl holding flowers is a healer

Why is it that i only see nice and reasonable people in the forums and not actually in the game?^^

Gaming turns respectable businessmen in raving lunatics

I love my monk. I like being in a healing/support role. I'm good at it, so I haven't had much abuse (there will always be idiots).

However, there are a few things I dislike.

1: That monks are (almost) always *expected* to be healers/protectors.
2: 55 Mo/Ws, who will either refuse to change their builds when politely asked, or say they have but still be running it when PvE is entered.
3: Parties who lie to get a monk to join them. (I joined an Isle of Fire mission primarily to cap Restore Conditions, and told the party I would gladly stay to help them complete the mission if they helped me cap my elite first. I stopped moving when they suddenly refused on my side of the deal, and they all ended up dying. I know gloating is unbecoming, but... )
4: Parties who think that a mission is impossible without a monk. More, people who will quit as soon as the party monk does. Come on. Take some responsibility for your own HPs, you slackers.

What I like:

1: People who take the time to thank the monks for their efforts. Sometimes I think the only people who do this must be those who have a monk char of their own, so they know how hard it can be...

2: People who realise a monk can't do everything and isn't perfect.

I like being treated like every other member of the team, I don't believe my job is any more difficult than that of the Warrior or the Elementalist or anyone.

One thing I have come to really hate is all the blind invites I get while playing my monk. It seems like sometimes I have to be spamming "waiting for guildies, no invites please." Blind invites are extremely rude, and I shouldn't have to decline an invite from the same person more than once.

These days I have been tempted to just set up as smiting at times I am just sitting around chatting with friends or waiting for them to arrive. That way I can accept the more persistant blind invites and be ready to go as a smiter right away. I have been very tempted to go into mean mode these days. Since common courtesy is not practiced by most people anymore. The only times it seems like I ever see it is at the end of the mission, when people may more may not say thanks and great job everybody.

These days I am mostly just heal or prot for my guild, though on occasion I will help a PUG with a mission. More often than not the only time I even deal with randoms guildies are along as well. I have better things to do than wonder if little Johnny (whatever prof) knows how to play their character.

Pretty much my view. No one needs to thank an Ele for good nuking, a Warrior for tanking something great, a Minion Master for making a minion at just the right moment, or pretty much any other profession - you just did you job. All those professions get heck (if not for the swear filters I would use stronger language).

But, to be fair, it seems that forum monks seem to be most of the prima donna's (that's not to say most monks on forums are, just that most of the monk prima donna's gripe on forums). There are lots that don't feel they are the absolute most vital part and need constant praise or they go "on strike". I would even say it is the rule, not the exception. But for some reason the prima donna's tend to be Monks (I rather suspect that the job of "healer" attracts that type of person for several reasons, just as a high percentage of a certain mindset choose w/mo even though there are quite a few great w/mo's).

I've also seen many many many monks that moan and complain about us being horrid when the henchie did the same job perfectly fine. I tend to ignore most complaints - especially when the henchie monk consistently does the "impossible".

That's not to say some complaints aren't valid - some really are. Every profession has them - monks are not singled out and IMO are not the worst treated. So don't get me wrong - there are quite a few times I've seen/read stuff that I cringe at directed at monks. I just do not see it much different than crap directed at any of the other classes, less than quite a few (you don't see the hate that w/mo's get, regardless of if you play the class combo well or not - and I'm one that doesn't play it well so I only go with henchies and that class). If you are one that has a real gripe I don't have any animosity towards what you are saying - just that if you think it is really bad for monks or have an invalid one you are being an idiot.

Try rolling a Mesmer or other non-visable support character. See when you did a bang up job of shutting down the nukers/healers and the other group drops *really* quickly because of it and the whole group says "Wow - that was great. Just think how fast we would have went through them if that Mesmer did something useful". Then you know unappreciated and disrespected. Let alone when you didn't do that great. It's not just some random individual - but a LARGE group and there is *nothing* you can ever do about the situation. You already did a great job, doing worse will just make you more useless. There is no nice little bar they get to not see go up - if they get creamed the next group then, of course, they would have gotten creamed worse as you are bringing the team down. Yet, you don't see a mesmer strike or constant threads.

i was doing a cooperative missions an i was the only monk there

so we took another 3 ritualist and each one had work defined out

I was resposnible top heal the tankers and keep them alive

being the monk u need to set out instructions earlier

there was this warrior who used to aggro like anything and i was alike 2 on energy later i realised jhe was aiming for the masters reward

Monk abuse is a part of the game, just as 'good nuking ele' is a comment often heard in parties with a mesmer.

Prevent it by playing with mates instead of pugs. Pugs will always expect standard builds, and if you dont tell them you are for instance also running very bad lasting Area of Effect smite on the side the group will not love you (especially the tank and especially if i am tanking).

Good is also to check your healing skills as compared to a henchy. Take 7 npcs out for a walk, and only direct them... don't heal... afterwards drop the healing hench and try again. If you weren't dying the first time and are the second one there may be some room for improving your monk skills.

It may sounds harsh, but I know that alot of the people think that they are great monks, but that is just their perception. I've played with some of the posters here, and believe me, they aren't as great monks as they think. To me FoW is the ultimate monk challenge, and if you can keep a party alive after the other monk had an error you can call yourself a great monk.

As it is now 60-80% of the pug monks cannot outheal a henchie (they may have no energy management at all, may decide meteor shower is a really cool spell, may be 50% smiting, may think heal party is the way to heal, may be the amazing lagging monk).

if the team fails its not down to a single member, the blame is assigned to everyone.

Monk's don't have infinite energy and can't keep the team alive forever, if your team fails it's because your opponent has better co-ordination, positioning and execution, the monk tries it's best to heal everyone but I can guarentee that everyone in the team part the monks don't care about anything but themselves.

An example, players SIT in traps constantly whilst they are being set of, i.e warriors and dust trap and they moan constantly on vent/ts saying "blind on xx" expecting the monk to take it of everytime.
This shows that the warrior doesn't think about the monks position, he doesnt think about the cost of RC, the recharge time of RC and the conditions curently on the team, instead he sits in dust trap moaning get blind of me!

Other conditions are spirits such as QZ and EW that heavily affects the monk roles yet some teams don't even realise that effect and leave those spirits up expecting monk's to just as effective through them as if they weren't there.

Monk's do suffer the most abuse but that is only in PuG groups and immature gamers, better formed groups such as guild and friends tends to understand the situations more and blame is less assigned.

However one role that should reach praise is the infuser, as that is the most difficult role to master and to play in the game.

Oh, I'm not saying anyone *needs* to thank someone else for doing their job. But some people do. Regardless of the profession that's being thanked, anyone likes to feel appreciated. And it's only courtesy to appreciate someone if you think they just gave a great performance. IMO at least...

This is not to say there aren't grandstanders out there. There are more than enough monks who go "you'd be dead without me LOLERSKATES" or ones that demand gold to join a team... etc

I guess i've lucked out, cause i avoided most abuse by just using henchies and smiting until the later missions.
But I've gotta say there are some awesome players out there. When I went through tombs i let them know i wasn't used to healing,
and it actually went well cause they were listening to my energy levels.
Guess what i'm trying to say is this
1. lettem know if you're a smiter or not(even if its just to jerk their chain by being a smiter)
2. be polite until they stop being so
3.be independent if you can't deal with being with jerks
4. be nice to the non warriors and elementalists. Theres nothing like hiding behind a line of barrage rangers while you heal
them and chat about the weather. Or having a necro who times his blood ritual so you don't even have to ask for it.
5. If you're on a team with another monk, coordinate the healing/prot or whatever. makes life easier

Don't give them the excuse to call us idiots. And if i sound like one with this list, its cause its 4 am so

As soon as I feel disrespected on my Monk, I make note of it. The next outpost we enter, I leave the party.

I started as a Ritualist a couple of weeks ago. I didn't mind the idea of healing but didn't want to be a monk... I get funny reactions from people when I say I'm a Healing Ritualist - often "What's a healing ritualist?", and they still don't get it when I explain what I can do... I decided to go Restoration just to try to remove this "Every party NEEDS a MONK attitude" - I may not be as good as a monk, but I can keep a party going pretty damn well when I need to...

One of my biggest tests was Zen Daijun...I got into a group with 3 Rangers, 2 Monks and 1 Ritualist (Me) - The monks did NOTHING....I don't know if it was deliberate to 'make a point' or anything, but I was the only one keeping the entire group, who favoured the 'rush in and die' approach, healed... Eventually I said "Are the monks even doing any healing, or is it only me", to which one of the monks replied "Oh, I've been AFK most of the time..." - the GIT!

My brother started as a monk, and he's very good. Since he can get into a group within seconds of entering a mission town, I use him as my passage in, I'm hoping I can return the favour with my healing rit sometime... (yes, we do tend to be like, Mo & X LFG - Take both or none!) - maybe a bit cheeky, but it works! My brother does have a sadistic side, however, where he will sit in an outpost (waiting for me) and reject everyone's invites - 'cause he can - but when he gets in the mission, he works is ass off to keep the group running...and NEVER quits. The amount of monks who enter a mission just to quit out 2 mins in astonishes me...

I'm lucky enough to have avoided the bad pugs for the most part, but I can tell where you guys are coming from having been in a few. I use E/Mo and usually wind up using my heal/buff build because noone else is willing to. It's a combo of that and just straight up not trusting someone who must be the last resort to even change. Even so if not I still bring a self heal and ask others to do the same(+hard rez in the case of likly death, often).

The worst I've done is refused to rez an idiot until combat's over, good reason because death penalty piles up for them most of the time. Does this seem like a petty thing(the asking for them to watch themselves and refusing) or an actual feasable strategy, both for party longevity and dealing with annoyances?

I monk solo in tombs, it's not hard :/.

Monks are generally crap, no hex removal, no decent energy manegement. It sucks, because when I want to flame a monk it's just seen as the regular "monk abuse".

If you stop monking because of idiots, you're pathetic. Play the game how you want to. Disable team chat, local chat, trade chat and just talk in guild chat .

When I play a character without healing abilities, I learn how tough the job of a monk is.
My necro simply does a job to hurt monsters, never have to worry about health of team mates. It is very relaxing after a few missions of heavy monking. I don't even bother to ask the monk if s/he actually has healing spells, because I play this character to get away from it all. When I die, I relax even more. I just stay there until the monk, or somebody with a rez, decides to revive me. As monk, I always felt a little shame, but as necro I just think "Oh well".

Actually, I don't even mind when there is no monk at all.

How hard would it be getting this thread tossed in the monk section?