I don't know if its juts me, but more and more, I see players coming into pre searing ascalon and dye farming. They create a new charcter buy all the black dye they can and ever color they can from newbies who don't know any better and then take it back to sell in post searing ascalon.
Something needs to be done about it. I think its wrong to scam newbies in this manner. It hasn't happened to me personally, but I just can't stand seeing it done to people who are new to the game. Thoughts ?
Dye Farmers - Presearing, Something should be done.
aeroclown
Itbegins
dude if they want to take 6 hours and get like 4k let them i can do a quest in ring of fire in 30minutes and get an extra 2k ez just calm down theres no problem with people buying dyes in presearing personally to take the time to get 1000-2000 gold in pre sear is such a waste of tiiiimmmmeeee
aeroclown
Im not hyped up at all, I dont need to calm down, I think its wrong pure and simple, and to be honest, I could rob you blind of dye in a few minutes and be level 3 and out the door to make the sale in under 30 minutes. And get far more then 2000 gp, 1 black dye sales for 4, you have an inventory of atleast 10 slots, you can very easily get 10 to 20 k in one run and people are doing it. Its unfair and its wrong.
Indigo
Do what I do in presearing when I hear "Buying Black Dye for 200"...
I always shout "Black Dye sells for 3k-4k in post searing" (at the time, it did... Not sure what it sells for now)
Sometimes, I get a curse fest from the farmer telling me to be quiet... Other times I get "really?" from the new players...
Basically, if the new player wants to get cheated out of some gold at a later date, for gold in his account now, that's his/her business... But I just make sure the playing field is level, when I can...
I always shout "Black Dye sells for 3k-4k in post searing" (at the time, it did... Not sure what it sells for now)
Sometimes, I get a curse fest from the farmer telling me to be quiet... Other times I get "really?" from the new players...
Basically, if the new player wants to get cheated out of some gold at a later date, for gold in his account now, that's his/her business... But I just make sure the playing field is level, when I can...
Zeru
Frankly I don't see anything wrong with preying on others stupidity with virtual items. I never made any trades until I had enough information to adequately determine if I was getting ripped off or not. If some people don't, that's their problem and loss.
Arrow Whisper
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zeru
Frankly I don't see anything wrong with preying on others stupidity with virtual items.
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ManadartheHealer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arrow Whisper
Hey Zeru what's your IGN? I've got a spot on my ignore list for you.
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nechronius
Hehe, I do believe Arrow already ran out of slots for people to add to their ignore list anyway....
Zeru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arrow Whisper
Hey Zeru what's your IGN? I've got a spot on my ignore list for you.
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Talesin Darkbriar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aeroclown
I don't know if its juts me, but more and more, I see players coming into pre searing ascalon and dye farming. They create a new charcter buy all the black dye they can and ever color they can from newbies who don't know any better and then take it back to sell in post searing ascalon.
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Solution: Make your own new character and go outfarm them.
Dreamsmith
OMG! There are people in the world that still act on that incredibly evil principle, "Buy low, sell high"? They MUST be stopped!
Numa Pompilius
The point is that noobs have no way to know, or even reason to suspect, that dye is expensive post searing.
When I hear people preying on noobs in pre-searing, I do like that other poster: I shout what the prices of dye post-searing is.
When I hear people preying on noobs in pre-searing, I do like that other poster: I shout what the prices of dye post-searing is.
Paladin_Adoni
taking advantage of people who are new to the game and dont know better is bad!
I dont care what your "reasoning" is, you shouldnt do it. how about instead of bringing the community down (thats all your doing, when these people get to post-searing and see how much they got ripped off, there pissed, and more than likely start to view others as shady). you help these new people by telling them what there really worth.
for gods sake, if your in pre-searing go actually farm the dye. the whole place is like dye central! and stop preying on the new people.
its just wrong. END OF STORY
I dont care what your "reasoning" is, you shouldnt do it. how about instead of bringing the community down (thats all your doing, when these people get to post-searing and see how much they got ripped off, there pissed, and more than likely start to view others as shady). you help these new people by telling them what there really worth.
for gods sake, if your in pre-searing go actually farm the dye. the whole place is like dye central! and stop preying on the new people.
its just wrong. END OF STORY
DeFi
Who are you to judge what is right or wrong?
I'll leave it up for ANet to decide.
I'll leave it up for ANet to decide.
Paladin_Adoni
the common decency of a person is the judge.
Anet are just the executioners :P
Anet are just the executioners :P
DrSLUGFly
lol... this is getting ridiculous... we aren't in a police state here. The whole functionality of a free market is that SOMEBODY is paying or receiving less than they should and therefore somebody else is making cash... It's not farming it's trading and there's a crucial difference.
Someone said "silver for 50" I bought it. They said ty, I said ty, nobody was hurt. Where's the issue? Later they realize that it's worth 10 times that (the equivilent to black for 300) and think, 'oh crap, well, I'll hold on to the next one then.' And that's it.
As was said, if someone is spending all the necessary time to buy black dyes in pre-searing (including the time it takes to make a few hundred coin while there, the deleted character, levelling the character to post-searing... let them... it's all good
Someone said "silver for 50" I bought it. They said ty, I said ty, nobody was hurt. Where's the issue? Later they realize that it's worth 10 times that (the equivilent to black for 300) and think, 'oh crap, well, I'll hold on to the next one then.' And that's it.
As was said, if someone is spending all the necessary time to buy black dyes in pre-searing (including the time it takes to make a few hundred coin while there, the deleted character, levelling the character to post-searing... let them... it's all good
Paladin_Adoni
^ a suprising (NOT) view from someone who does it.....
Dax
Well, coming from someone who has never bought or sold anything to/from a player, I don't think it's so bad. After all a new player doesn't really need that much money (unless they do something stupid like pay someone so they can get endgame armor), stuff drops like crazy in the game and there isn't a whol lot to buy.
I've gone through most of the game, selling everything to merchants and traders, upgraded my armor everystep of the way...non rushed. and I still have more money than I know what to do with. But if there are people who want to be enterprising and farm dye or buy it from the newbies who are more than happy to get a bit of gold ...let them spend the time doing so
..besides if it's that big a deal new players can create another char and farm dyes themselves.
I've gone through most of the game, selling everything to merchants and traders, upgraded my armor everystep of the way...non rushed. and I still have more money than I know what to do with. But if there are people who want to be enterprising and farm dye or buy it from the newbies who are more than happy to get a bit of gold ...let them spend the time doing so
..besides if it's that big a deal new players can create another char and farm dyes themselves.
Soup4Brains
How do they send items to their post-searing account from their pre-searing?
I've only had the game 2 days thus far and I'd like to know how to send items between characters.
I've only had the game 2 days thus far and I'd like to know how to send items between characters.
Khift
It's fair game, man. If you think it's disgusting, do something about it. Go make a new character and run around pre-searing warning people not to sell their dyes for too little.
If you actually do it, you know what? I'll come with you. If you make it your goal -- to close this opportunity for experienced players to exploit the new and unknowing, I will do the same. But if you don't actually care enough to do something about it and you only want someone else to do it for you, then you are no better than the people who do it.
This is coming from someone who has done it before, and will do it again next chance I get. You'd better get out there warning people before that happens.
Show me some integrity, man. Be better than most of the rabble out there and do something about it. And I'll help you if you do.
If you actually do it, you know what? I'll come with you. If you make it your goal -- to close this opportunity for experienced players to exploit the new and unknowing, I will do the same. But if you don't actually care enough to do something about it and you only want someone else to do it for you, then you are no better than the people who do it.
This is coming from someone who has done it before, and will do it again next chance I get. You'd better get out there warning people before that happens.
Show me some integrity, man. Be better than most of the rabble out there and do something about it. And I'll help you if you do.
Sallythekiller
I'm pretty much in agreement with the farmers and farmer sympathizers. I've never farmed, I don't plan to, and I've yet to trade in this game, but I figure if there's a loophole, it will get exploited. Nothing you say or do can stop it. If you remove the dyes from pre-seer, what will be put in their place? They are a viable part of the guild wars economy. When I was a noob, I found dyes in pre-seer that bought my armor in post. I think the system works fine as is, the economy system is great, and people will be people. If they want cash bad enough, they'll get it
Christ67
Lets try to keep profiteering and farming seperate.
Taking advantage of unknowing new people is wrong morally and should not be endorsed. No argument here. Calling that farming is incorrect.
Farming is where you go and kill monsters repeatedly to get items sell to other characters or a trader for gold. Farming in this game has already been so nerfed that it has become useless. Don't mislabel it or it might be nerfed further.
Why would a new person sell dye at low prices? Mabey because there is so little money to be found in pre. Could this be caused due to farming being nerfed? A-net created the monster of profiteering by nerfing farming. All games will have people taking advantage of a situation, but this was created by A-net's patches. Here is a nice fix, reverse the nerf to farming so new people aren't so desperate for money. Or possibly give greater drops for killing monsters (isn't a cane that sells for 4 gold a little disappointing after killing the Lvl 5 Skullreaver boss or Riverdrake?)
Oh well please keep your terminology clear or the reactionary A-net will patch this too and make trading between characters unavailable (/rolldice)
Taking advantage of unknowing new people is wrong morally and should not be endorsed. No argument here. Calling that farming is incorrect.
Farming is where you go and kill monsters repeatedly to get items sell to other characters or a trader for gold. Farming in this game has already been so nerfed that it has become useless. Don't mislabel it or it might be nerfed further.
Why would a new person sell dye at low prices? Mabey because there is so little money to be found in pre. Could this be caused due to farming being nerfed? A-net created the monster of profiteering by nerfing farming. All games will have people taking advantage of a situation, but this was created by A-net's patches. Here is a nice fix, reverse the nerf to farming so new people aren't so desperate for money. Or possibly give greater drops for killing monsters (isn't a cane that sells for 4 gold a little disappointing after killing the Lvl 5 Skullreaver boss or Riverdrake?)
Oh well please keep your terminology clear or the reactionary A-net will patch this too and make trading between characters unavailable (/rolldice)
gabby2600
My tactic works wonderfully aobut this, create pre-searing character, and tell the new players the truth about prices and that they are being conned. The con men soon stop, do this enough and the world will spread. Or do the noble thing and say I will buy the dye of them at x price (x = a resonable going rate) when they get to post searing. that will soon stop the con men.
Saerden
If someone does not take his time to figure out the best prices for his wares, he has no right to be selling them for a fair price. Not everyone who plays this game for 30mins is retarded. The costs (yes, information is a MAJOR part of the costs in online games, because most other costs are meaningless) of finding out how much stuff is worth are not something the experienced player has to pay (information needs time investment). If you sell black dyes for 100g, and expect me to tell you the real price, your SCAMMING me out of the information costs. Sorry, i hate scammers.
gabby2600
simple solution put a dye trader in pre searing.
DrSLUGFly
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Khift
It's fair game, man. If you think it's disgusting, do something about it. Go make a new character and run around pre-searing warning people not to sell their dyes for too little.
If you actually do it, you know what? I'll come with you. If you make it your goal -- to close this opportunity for experienced players to exploit the new and unknowing, I will do the same. But if you don't actually care enough to do something about it and you only want someone else to do it for you, then you are no better than the people who do it. This is coming from someone who has done it before, and will do it again next chance I get. You'd better get out there warning people before that happens. Show me some integrity, man. Be better than most of the rabble out there and do something about it. And I'll help you if you do. |
Aka
This discussion is a micro version of the debate over unregulated capitalism that has been going on in the dark corners of the world since the invention of the damn thing.
Yes people will take advantage if they can. Yes it's wrong. Yes something should be done. Can something be done? No, nothing can be done. Only indiviuals who are motivated to make change can make change. Will they? Time will tell.
I sympathize with the people who want an institutional solution (A-net will fix it) but I ask those poeple, how do we learn? What leasons do we learn best? How hot is fire?
(sorry, I've started brewing my own beer and have had a few tonight. /philosophy)
Yes people will take advantage if they can. Yes it's wrong. Yes something should be done. Can something be done? No, nothing can be done. Only indiviuals who are motivated to make change can make change. Will they? Time will tell.
I sympathize with the people who want an institutional solution (A-net will fix it) but I ask those poeple, how do we learn? What leasons do we learn best? How hot is fire?
(sorry, I've started brewing my own beer and have had a few tonight. /philosophy)
Porkchop Sandwhiches
Man the only thing wrong is that it just isn't nice. And if you want to be nice or not to new players is up to you I supose.
However, I always love to tell people in Pre-Searing about the correct price of dyes, personally crap like preying on newbies who don't know better can ruin their view of the game... but then again I realize there are plenty of people already out there willing to do that.
Guild Wars community FTW.
But seriously, there are better and easier ways to make money. Salvaging anyone? People who sit in towns all day spamming to buy black dye from the unsuspecting are just... lame.
(sorry, terrible mood today, heh)
And if you want to be nice or not to new players is up to you I supose.However, I always love to tell people in Pre-Searing about the correct price of dyes, personally crap like preying on newbies who don't know better can ruin their view of the game... but then again I realize there are plenty of people already out there willing to do that.
Guild Wars community FTW.
But seriously, there are better and easier ways to make money. Salvaging anyone? People who sit in towns all day spamming to buy black dye from the unsuspecting are just... lame.
(sorry, terrible mood today, heh)
Dax
It's amazing how much money you can make from salvaging..but having said that I agree you're neve going to stop people from taking advantage of other people. Farming is not a bad thing....
One thing all new players should take the time to do is read some of the new player guides that are on various fan sites.. I know quite a few that say "SAVE YOUR DYES" because later in the game they go for alot of money
One thing all new players should take the time to do is read some of the new player guides that are on various fan sites.. I know quite a few that say "SAVE YOUR DYES" because later in the game they go for alot of money
Aniewiel
Of course, this IS just a game, however the true character of a person comes glaring through. As IRL, there are exploiters and honest people. Honesty demands that you at least give the "n00b" (Good Lord, I hate that moniker) the true information about what it is that you're trying to buy from him/her. Then, if they still wish to make the deal, so be it. It's akin to truth in advertising.
*shrugs* Will it ever stop? No, just as it doesn't EVER stop IRL. As one guards oneself against scams when buying products IRL, one should guard oneself in games as well. So-called n00bs should have some sort of warning given when they make a character. Maybe one of those pop-up boxes in pre-searing Ascalon would be nice:
Buyer/Seller Beware! Numerous scams exist in the realms of Ascalon! Both honest and nefarious characters abound in the world so arm yourself with information before accepting trades or selling items.
*shrugs* Will it ever stop? No, just as it doesn't EVER stop IRL. As one guards oneself against scams when buying products IRL, one should guard oneself in games as well. So-called n00bs should have some sort of warning given when they make a character. Maybe one of those pop-up boxes in pre-searing Ascalon would be nice:
Buyer/Seller Beware! Numerous scams exist in the realms of Ascalon! Both honest and nefarious characters abound in the world so arm yourself with information before accepting trades or selling items.
DavenXion
1. New players will scam themselves out of dye. Seriously take a look around Pre one day and see how many people run about with their lowest armor dyed. I've seen a warrior with chest and leggings dyed black. Guess what? He cost himself at least 10k. Did he care at that point? No probably not in the slightest, he was having fun and looking like the Fanzi 'ehhhh'.
2. There is a difference in gold drop between Pre and Post...its a different world. When gold drops in piles of 2-5 and you can sell an item for 50, 100, or "omg that guy just gave me 200 gold for something only worth 1 gold". I know people from RL who thought they were rich leaving Pre with 750 gold.
3. Ignorance is bliss. So don't screw with their bliss. If I find someone selling a dye cheap in Pre I'll buy it. If I find someone spamming for "any dye color - 50 gold", I'll call them on it, maybe offer more or make a vague statement about saving it for better armor. But don't ruin the story line for a town full of people to save maybe 4 or 5 people some gold.
There's no reason to spam "Dyes sell for up to 5000 gold in Post-sear." Guess what, not only have you blown a few holes in a hundred people's unknown story line, but now those same people are going to try and take all their pre-sear pals for any gold they have. I've seen someone charging post price in pre....guess what he had no takers. I whispered him, (not yelled in open channel!!) and told him that he may want to move on in the story line where there's more people to pay those prices.
2. There is a difference in gold drop between Pre and Post...its a different world. When gold drops in piles of 2-5 and you can sell an item for 50, 100, or "omg that guy just gave me 200 gold for something only worth 1 gold". I know people from RL who thought they were rich leaving Pre with 750 gold.
3. Ignorance is bliss. So don't screw with their bliss. If I find someone selling a dye cheap in Pre I'll buy it. If I find someone spamming for "any dye color - 50 gold", I'll call them on it, maybe offer more or make a vague statement about saving it for better armor. But don't ruin the story line for a town full of people to save maybe 4 or 5 people some gold.
There's no reason to spam "Dyes sell for up to 5000 gold in Post-sear." Guess what, not only have you blown a few holes in a hundred people's unknown story line, but now those same people are going to try and take all their pre-sear pals for any gold they have. I've seen someone charging post price in pre....guess what he had no takers. I whispered him, (not yelled in open channel!!) and told him that he may want to move on in the story line where there's more people to pay those prices.
Algren Cole
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Itbegins
dude if they want to take 6 hours and get like 4k let them i can do a quest in ring of fire in 30minutes and get an extra 2k ez just calm down theres no problem with people buying dyes in presearing personally to take the time to get 1000-2000 gold in pre sear is such a waste of tiiiimmmmeeee
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my Mesmer(still pre-sear) has 12 black dyes in his inventory....that's a tad more than 4K
asdar
We're not talking about an opportunity shopper here getting lucky. We're talking about people who knowingly take advantage of people new to the game.
New people aren't stupid, They're just inexperienced. You shouldn't have to go on web sites and research to play a game.
If you're building up a new character and see someone selling and you buy I've got no problem, if you're going to pre-sear Ascalon just waiting for someone you can take advantage of then you're doing the wrong thing.
If your moral code is truly "It's only wrong if you get caught, and punished" then nothing anyone says is going to change you but this is morally wrong.
The only thing anyone can do is tell the zone when they go in that black dye is 3k+.
New people aren't stupid, They're just inexperienced. You shouldn't have to go on web sites and research to play a game.
If you're building up a new character and see someone selling and you buy I've got no problem, if you're going to pre-sear Ascalon just waiting for someone you can take advantage of then you're doing the wrong thing.
If your moral code is truly "It's only wrong if you get caught, and punished" then nothing anyone says is going to change you but this is morally wrong.
The only thing anyone can do is tell the zone when they go in that black dye is 3k+.
robmdq
As someone said, the best way to solve this matter is to put a dye trader in pre-searing.
and, since some ppl brought the farming topic, since the most farming places were nerfed, farming in a party is, most of the times, quite useless and farming solo is not possible with all character classes/builds, salvaging is my main gold source ^_^ just say i can get 250 woods in less than 2 hours, then sell them in maybe 10 minutes for 8-9 golds a piece, is a good "legit" way to make money while no hurting anyone
and, since some ppl brought the farming topic, since the most farming places were nerfed, farming in a party is, most of the times, quite useless and farming solo is not possible with all character classes/builds, salvaging is my main gold source ^_^ just say i can get 250 woods in less than 2 hours, then sell them in maybe 10 minutes for 8-9 golds a piece, is a good "legit" way to make money while no hurting anyone
Granamyr
Two idioms apply in this case:
1. Any item is worth what it sells for.
2. You can only scam yourself.
There is no morality associated with economics. I had friends selling dye to the merchant for 1gold. Is the merchant evil? Is ANet? If person X thinks 200 gold is a good price for black dye, then it is. It is not your job to tell them otherwise and if you do, it should also be incumbent upon you to recompensate said person for the difference. Otherwise, what help have you given?
I'll echo what General Zod said above and rest assured this post is coming to you moonshine-free. Do not create a society of dependency out there....be it information or otherwise. Yes, be helpful but realize that lessons learned are best learned the hard way.
The person that sells their black dye for 200 gold and realizes the lost profit instantly becomes one of the more savvy traders in the game because he will forever research item prices from then on.
The person that depends on you to tell him the fair market value of every item is the same one you find in the final missions spamming "WHAT IS A MAJOR RUNE OF BEASTMASTERY WORTH!!!!!?"
1. Any item is worth what it sells for.
2. You can only scam yourself.
There is no morality associated with economics. I had friends selling dye to the merchant for 1gold. Is the merchant evil? Is ANet? If person X thinks 200 gold is a good price for black dye, then it is. It is not your job to tell them otherwise and if you do, it should also be incumbent upon you to recompensate said person for the difference. Otherwise, what help have you given?
I'll echo what General Zod said above and rest assured this post is coming to you moonshine-free. Do not create a society of dependency out there....be it information or otherwise. Yes, be helpful but realize that lessons learned are best learned the hard way.
The person that sells their black dye for 200 gold and realizes the lost profit instantly becomes one of the more savvy traders in the game because he will forever research item prices from then on.
The person that depends on you to tell him the fair market value of every item is the same one you find in the final missions spamming "WHAT IS A MAJOR RUNE OF BEASTMASTERY WORTH!!!!!?"
Aniewiel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by asdar
If you're building up a new character and see someone selling and you buy I've got no problem, if you're going to pre-sear Ascalon just waiting for someone you can take advantage of then you're doing the wrong thing.
If your moral code is truly "It's only wrong if you get caught, and punished" then nothing anyone says is going to change you but this is morally wrong. |
smitty-gw
It's only dye.
So what that some people take advantage of newbs. Its a free trade market world.
Acquiring 200 gold in pre-Sear to spam "WTB Black dye 200g each" takes some time and is a waste of it, in my opinion.
These things are part of the learning curve of the game, no biggie. And people who prosper this way and brag about it usually have real life self-esteem issues greater than the virtual world that most of us "play" in.
Does anyone really have any problems getting items or gold to acquire what they want in this game? I know I sure don't. And if it takes me an extra day or two to acquire enough gold for that last black dye I so desperately want, then so be it.
I'm am not a high maintenance person, nor am I a slave to my Id.
So what that some people take advantage of newbs. Its a free trade market world.
Acquiring 200 gold in pre-Sear to spam "WTB Black dye 200g each" takes some time and is a waste of it, in my opinion.
These things are part of the learning curve of the game, no biggie. And people who prosper this way and brag about it usually have real life self-esteem issues greater than the virtual world that most of us "play" in.
Does anyone really have any problems getting items or gold to acquire what they want in this game? I know I sure don't. And if it takes me an extra day or two to acquire enough gold for that last black dye I so desperately want, then so be it.
I'm am not a high maintenance person, nor am I a slave to my Id.
Ristaron
What is it to an inexperienced player if you buy a black dye from them for 20, or 200, or 2,000 gold? It's more than they get at the merchant. They'll be happy, they just made more gold than selling several drops would get them.
In fact...
Lots of people in presearing don't even have ID kits, they don't get their precious items so they get cheated. Are you saying that the ID kits are a scam? I for one am not going to run district to district proclaiming the value of an ID kit.
"BUY ONE AND IDENTIFY UNIDENTIFIED THINGS FOR MORE GOLD!"
Kind of a waste of time, if you ask me.
As is dye-farming these days... it was so much easier a month or two ago, when the game just came out. My first two characters were financed almost entirely on dye. I kept it all in the vault until I got to Lion's Arch.
Then they put in the dye trader at all major cities.
In fact...
Lots of people in presearing don't even have ID kits, they don't get their precious items so they get cheated. Are you saying that the ID kits are a scam? I for one am not going to run district to district proclaiming the value of an ID kit.
"BUY ONE AND IDENTIFY UNIDENTIFIED THINGS FOR MORE GOLD!"
Kind of a waste of time, if you ask me.
As is dye-farming these days... it was so much easier a month or two ago, when the game just came out. My first two characters were financed almost entirely on dye. I kept it all in the vault until I got to Lion's Arch.
Then they put in the dye trader at all major cities.
thesecondrei
To Aeroclown: Quite frankly, given how obscenely high prices are for items these days, I don't see how you would think dye farming is "wrong."
Mak
Who cares; its not real money. And besides the noob would probably just waste it dying there presearing armour(I did in my first Beta, I had black pants with a red shirt- d'oh), so really the traders are kind of helping noobs.