It has been talked over in other posts, so I will not go into discussing the issue but double skills have caused quite a lot of stir. The official position of Anet is that these skills were added to give a new strategic aspect to the game and to make those skills available to Factions only characters.
Counter arguements are numerous but mainly: if they wanted us to be able to double skills more often, they could've just added one-two more echo-like skill; if they wanted the skills to be available to Factions only characters they could've just added them to core set.
Bottom line is: no one seems to be happy with this decision, so I'm starting this petition to get rid of these skills and replace them with unique ones. I think that while we are at it, we might as well give suggestions to what those skills could be doing instead of being just a name change.
Get rid of doubled skills (petition)
Hella Good
Cybah
/signed
TideSwayer
If you don't like them you don't have to buy them from the skill trader. I personally love the idea.
tONYY
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TideSwayer
If you don't like them you don't have to buy them from the skill trader. I personally love the idea.
|
Haggard
i love galrath slash, having silverwing strike gives me a free, permanent, non elite Echo of it 
Thom
I think you are missing the point. Having two inspired hex/inspired enchantments/galraths... adds interesting options. Obviously A-net shouldn't do this too often, but for certain skills it provides flexiblity.
fallot
I'm happy with the double-skills, they add an interesting element to the game.
/not signed
/not signed
Pandora's box
The skills are not double for those who dont own the core game. A better solution would be to provide a cheaper 'merge only' version for those who already own chapter 1. Because for owners of the original game Factions is really no more than an expansion...
Joh
So what does prophecies only-owners lose from this? Absolutely nothing. Anyone into PvP will buy both, simply to get access to all skills. Anyone into PvE only will buy either of them, or both. Once again, what exactly does anybody lose from duplicated skills that are available in factions only? If they want the dupes, they'll just have to buy factions, like they'll have to with every other faction-only skill.
/not signed
/not signed
drowningfish999
A.Net isn't cheating you out of anything, because they still are giving you all the new skills they promised PLUS the clones.
/not signed
/not signed
Shattered Self
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hella Good
Counter arguements are numerous but mainly: if they wanted us to be able to double skills more often, they could've just added one-two more echo-like skill; if they wanted the skills to be available to Factions only characters they could've just added them to core set.
|
/NOT signed
Tuoba Hturt Eht
I slap you with a Kai Den's "Signet of Major Disapproval"
/not signed
I'm happy with the double skills.
The "Double Skills" will be here to stay. Period.
/not signed
I'm happy with the double skills.
The "Double Skills" will be here to stay. Period.
SparhawkJC
I agree double skills just puts the Prophecies owners at such a huge advantage over only-Factions owners. For example someone with both Prophecies and Factions could use Galrath+Silverwing+Final Thrust for a mean spike instead of the Sever artery+gash+silverwing+final thrust that Factions owners would be stuck with. Definitely goes against the Guild Wars mantra of having someone with only Factions be competative.
Also do you have any evidence that these doubled skills are here to stay? My guess is that they're only placeholder skills until a-net figures out how to balance the actual skills that they meant to put in the game.
/signed
Also do you have any evidence that these doubled skills are here to stay? My guess is that they're only placeholder skills until a-net figures out how to balance the actual skills that they meant to put in the game.
/signed
Amok
I like the idea of the double skills, bringing more combinations to skills sets is a great idea. I don't think there will be any huge advantages to those who have both, just more options. And yes we do get 300 totally new skills, plus these doubles.
Not Signed.
Not Signed.
Minus Sign
/not signed.
The only {real} downside to these skills is that they have the potential to make things Diversion less effective. The up-sides are too numerous to count and, as has been stated, we still get oodles of completely unique skills to put on our bar.
EDIT: on the Prophecies+Factions will be greater than just Prophecies or Factions issue:
Of course merging accounts will net you benifits in skill combos (probably Attribute points as well if there are quests like the ones found in Crystal Desert and outside Copperhammer). Thats part of the logic behind it. They don't want you to own 1 of 2 games; they want you to buy both.
Anet said there would be many reasons it is advantages to merge the two games upon purchase. This is just one more.
The only {real} downside to these skills is that they have the potential to make things Diversion less effective. The up-sides are too numerous to count and, as has been stated, we still get oodles of completely unique skills to put on our bar.
EDIT: on the Prophecies+Factions will be greater than just Prophecies or Factions issue:
Of course merging accounts will net you benifits in skill combos (probably Attribute points as well if there are quests like the ones found in Crystal Desert and outside Copperhammer). Thats part of the logic behind it. They don't want you to own 1 of 2 games; they want you to buy both.
Anet said there would be many reasons it is advantages to merge the two games upon purchase. This is just one more.
Synthos
Im confused.. What do you guys mean by doubleing skills..
Can someone explain?
Can someone explain?
yesitsrob
If you don't have factions you're at severely large disadvantage for any form of competition anyway (no eviscerate, no dwaynas kiss to name a few) - double skills or no double skills won't change that at all. This idea is stupid, totally not signed
Minus Sign
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Synthos
Im confused.. What do you guys mean by doubleing skills..
Can someone explain? |
Shattered Self
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Synthos
Im confused.. What do you guys mean by doubleing skills..
Can someone explain? |
Pillz_veritas
/not signed.
This simply adds WAY WAY To much build possibilities to be taken out of game just because a few whiners dont like having to buy more skills to get a complete set.
This simply adds WAY WAY To much build possibilities to be taken out of game just because a few whiners dont like having to buy more skills to get a complete set.
ibex333
/not signed
Synthos
Alright 
..
I'll have to look more closely then, I didnt really notice.
..I'll have to look more closely then, I didnt really notice.
Loviatar
/not signed for the simple reason if you put in a dupe you are choosing to leave another (possibly very good) skill out of your skill bar.
you are acting as outraged as if they tacked on a 9th skill slot for this.
you are acting as outraged as if they tacked on a 9th skill slot for this.
D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E
/not signed; some of the clones are usfull to the core class, 4 SS's anyone? (necro in FoW) flexibility is nice.
Sayshina
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SparhawkJC
I agree double skills just puts the Prophecies owners at such a huge advantage over only-Factions owners. For example someone with both Prophecies and Factions could use Galrath+Silverwing+Final Thrust for a mean spike instead of the Sever artery+gash+silverwing+final thrust that Factions owners would be stuck with. Definitely goes against the Guild Wars mantra of having someone with only Factions be competative.
Also do you have any evidence that these doubled skills are here to stay? My guess is that they're only placeholder skills until a-net figures out how to balance the actual skills that they meant to put in the game. /signed |
As to whether they are a good idea, that depends. Anet has stated for the record that they derive their inspiration for the skill system from Magic the Gathering. If we look at that game, there have been over the years many "duplicates", some because a limited skill set was instituted for a given format, others to allow for multiple copies of a usefull skill to be used. Does that last part sound familiar?
There have been very few cases of abuse involving these "copies", primarily because Wizards always recognized the potential for abuse and generally only duped the utility skills like disenchant (of which I think you could run almost 1 out of 3 at one time.
Please, if it's not too much trouble, could you show me the godly combo that is now possible? The best I've seen anyone come up with in this thread is double Galraths + FT, and if that's the best you can do you're in trouble with this whole arguement. If that's your idea of overpowered...
War's are not the best spikers. War's are all about constant pressure, even after the adren nerf (or fix, I guess it depends on your perspective). If you're getting spiked by a war I have to wonder if you're talking about Random PvP, which really, who cares about? In PvE it's irrelevant. Casters and rangers far out damage monsters, and the best use for a war is as a stance tank. In PvP (real PvP that is), it has been shown many times that more adren skills = less damage over time. Sure, it allows for a spike, but it's a pathetic spike compared to 4 rangers, or even 4 air ele's for that matter.
And that's the only example you've come up with. Are you going to claim that having 2 Tiger's Fury's will lead to any godly combo's? How about any of the rest? Can you find a single realistic case of an abusable combo? The best I've heard of up till now was the Necro touch skills, and that's just silly.
Pharoke
/not signing
another cry-baby nerf this now petition. Jeez you people make me sick. There are ways to counter everything in the game figure it out.
another cry-baby nerf this now petition. Jeez you people make me sick. There are ways to counter everything in the game figure it out.
Well99
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TideSwayer
If you don't like them you don't have to buy them from the skill trader. I personally love the idea.
|
Have to agree with TideSwayer.The answer is simple...dont like it... dont use it.
Why is it every game I play folks dont get that?Anyhoo there are enough nerfs as is..oh well ..)
Ole Man Bourbon
Anyone have a list of all the duplicate skills?
Arkyn sei
If you hadn't noticed , all the double skills are Factions campaign only , and the originals are Prophecies meaning that if you only have factions , you can only have factions skills and vice versa.
Rey Lentless
I don't mind any of the current skills that are duplicated. In fact, I like most of them. I just don't like the trend.
I don't like the idea that every new game every 6 months is going to have duplicate skills. I hope they don't get carried away here.
I don't like the idea that every new game every 6 months is going to have duplicate skills. I hope they don't get carried away here.
Ensign
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Thom
I think you are missing the point. Having two inspired hex/inspired enchantments/galraths... adds interesting options. Obviously A-net shouldn't do this too often, but for certain skills it provides flexiblity.
|
I.E., I feel somewhat cheated by the dupes, because a new skill, even if it's terrible, is at least a new option. Giving us another copy of a non-impact skill just waters down the skill pool, it doesn't expand it at all.
Peace,
-CxE
Dragonblood
I don't mind the duplicated skills, because...
1) you can use duplicated skills like Vampiric Bite, Vampiric Touch, plus Vampiric Gaze. To heal yourself, while the monk heals other players. That's if you own both games.
2) you don't have to buy the duplicated skill(s) if you don't want to. That easy.
3) thier there for new players that don't own Prophecies. Which has be said over and over again.
4) not all the duplicated skills are the same, example Animate Bone Horror and Animate Vampiric Horror. Both minions look the same but, vampiric minions also steal health if you lose health. Do normal minions do that, no.
1) you can use duplicated skills like Vampiric Bite, Vampiric Touch, plus Vampiric Gaze. To heal yourself, while the monk heals other players. That's if you own both games.
2) you don't have to buy the duplicated skill(s) if you don't want to. That easy.
3) thier there for new players that don't own Prophecies. Which has be said over and over again.
4) not all the duplicated skills are the same, example Animate Bone Horror and Animate Vampiric Horror. Both minions look the same but, vampiric minions also steal health if you lose health. Do normal minions do that, no.
LifeInfusion
that way you don't need echo, which means you dont need primary/secondary elite skill to copy.
Also, having two of the same thing means you can pull off combos faster and in new ways.Think 30-60 sec+ recharges.
/not sign
Also, having two of the same thing means you can pull off combos faster and in new ways.Think 30-60 sec+ recharges.
/not sign
Jas D
I think your petition isn't working, lol.
Renegade ++RIP++
/sign
if you want them to be available to factionbuyers, then they are coreskills, that simple. Using 2 times the same skill is in my eyes BS, I would prefer some alterations to them to increase options and synergies in stead of the take along to counter interruption and because of lower importance of other skills, or less interest in taking other skills along.
if you want them to be available to factionbuyers, then they are coreskills, that simple. Using 2 times the same skill is in my eyes BS, I would prefer some alterations to them to increase options and synergies in stead of the take along to counter interruption and because of lower importance of other skills, or less interest in taking other skills along.
Omega X
Ok, if they add 30 duplicate skills. Then what is the point of having core universal skills. It defeats the purpose.
Shattered Self
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Omega X
Ok, if they add 30 duplicate skills. Then what is the point of having core universal skills. It defeats the purpose.
|
). The core skills they picked for Factions will always be core skills, whereas the duplicated skills and their duplicates probably won't be in the other chapters./NOT signed
Wicked V
/notsighned
i agree, i think it has a positive strategic effect to the alliance arenas.
i agree, i think it has a positive strategic effect to the alliance arenas.
TGgold
The only core skill that worries me somewhat is Arcane Larency.
Echo, A Echo, AThievery, ALarency. That's 4 skills from your oppenents bar totally gone.
The other options are just dandy though. I think it's partly an attempt to make the mesmer subclass less desirable just to use echo for.
Echo, A Echo, AThievery, ALarency. That's 4 skills from your oppenents bar totally gone.
The other options are just dandy though. I think it's partly an attempt to make the mesmer subclass less desirable just to use echo for.
Grammar
Does anyone else see this as an attempt to buff certain attributes/weapons rather than to "add flexibility"?
For example, Axes are typically the dominate weapon in Guild Wars at the moment, but now swords are getting a pretty big buff as a result of Galrath Slash being doubled.
Anyone have a full list of doubled skills?
I'd be curious to see which attribute lines get buffed the most from this.
(I hope they double MS, lol
)
For example, Axes are typically the dominate weapon in Guild Wars at the moment, but now swords are getting a pretty big buff as a result of Galrath Slash being doubled.
Anyone have a full list of doubled skills?
I'd be curious to see which attribute lines get buffed the most from this.
(I hope they double MS, lol
)