So what happened to 6 x 100% content math

I love the new factions game, I especially like the option of travel between campaigns (Campaigns that’s the main word here) the 100% content I believe is based on the campaign you select at the character creation screen. The chance to later visit the other campaign is a blessed bonus.

My only grip is that if I have a guild member who needs help in missions before LA that I will have to use an old character. If you tri and use a factions character you get an error message telling you that you have a disallowed character in the group. If they could fix this to allow us to participate to help our players but not get the reward that would be fine.

But if not that’s fine, I still love the game so far I have over 1100 hrs on playtime on the first release and I hope to equal this on the new campaign.

I enjoyed Factions really well myself as well :-) I'm glad others are enjoying it.. I look forward to playing it again this Friday.

On the 100%, actually that's not what people are talking about (campaign-selection screen). If that was the case, there wouldn't be as much a case to merge them together (since you can create a Tyrian in one and Canthan in the other).

Many of you are saying that you get 100% across all slots, and thast what we've paid for and what was said, but I have to say your wrong. If you look at what Gaile said it was that not merging accounts was having 8 slots that could only have 50% content, and mergin, giving 6 with 100%. Now the way that she chose to potray this is 8 x 50% and 6 x 100%.

This implied ot me that all 6 spaces would have access to 100% of the gameplay material if I wanted them to, not that across the 6 slots I could make up the 100%.

Tyria Characters cannot do all Cantha Material, the first missions are a no-no, and likewise, your Cantha character cannot do all Tyria Material. Although I think the idea of "oh what if after you have killed the titans..." is novel it is also silly, they would have to have programed a whole new sequence of events for the missiosn to make sense if you did them LA>Ascalon direction and had to "retake" Ascalon.

OK, I aso saw the arguemnt "But your always limited by your secondary class" wrong, simply put, in the crystal desert you can change your secondary class, and then go back and do quests related to that profession. For isntance i changed my W/R into a W/Mo, went and did "Wayward Monk" out of Yak's bend.

So it is possible to do 100% of the profession specific quests with any 1 character, so please consider that argument defunct.

I'm not ludicrously upset over this, however I fail to see how you have decided Gail's comment was rhetorical. Gail is the liason between the GW team and the community, in the past, and currently, it has been her job to pass on factual information regarding the game to us, I know she is often prone to jokes and having a laugh, she's only human. But when she, in big violet text, responds to the "should I merge or not" question, and answers with a 8 x 50% / 6x100% comment then I choose to take that seriously. She has never, as long as ive read the dev forum made a joke / rhetorical response to a seriously asked question.

Ok, I'm not saying it's Gail's fault, shes been wrong before, she wasnt aware we would be given the 2 slots for the pre-release, which caused me to delete a character, but i'm not bitter about that, because I deleted that char before we were then informed we would get those spaces.

However to make such a comment, in a way which doesnt really allow much room for incorrect interpretation in my eyes, and then not to correct herself when she found out that was wrong (and I know im assuming she found out it was wrong, but they must have play tested "blocking" Cantha chars doing Kates etc)

I dont think we have been decieved, I think there has been alot of miss-information handed around, which has led many of us to believe something that is not true. And moreso I should mention that I do not feel I have gotten everything I paid for, because I paid for 6x100% at the end of the day, I wanted to take my Assassin to Nolani and do the mission (as a note you can't do Cities of Ascalon quest with a Cantha char because of this) so its not even you can do all missions without quests.

I have jumped to defend Anet in the past over the Tengu / headstart times, and even the delay of CE, but this really is quite silly now, theres no real reason to stop us doing those missions, it would give us more to do and remove the onset of monotomy before C3 comes out. I had a lovely plan of doing all of Tyria with ym Assassin, then doing Cantha stuff, but I cant, and that is a bit annoying.

Yes I can do all missions across my slots but thats not the point, I dont even care your Tyira char cant do the monestary missions, its only 2 and they are lame, but for a canthan chracter, they have blocked off the first 25% or so of Tyria.

Now I'm fairly mirfed about this as a C1 > C2 player, but what happens when those who got C2 first, then baught C1 take their beloved character across and are told they cant play the first considerably large bit of content of what is to them, a new game.

As much sense as this does make, if they were so worried about the missions being chronologically accurate, then why do they let you go back and do missions over again? It doesn't make sense to let Tyrian characters GO BACK and do old missions and not let Canthan characters do this because it's "not part of their timeline".

Not that i'm saying we shouldn't be able to go back and do old missions, but it seems kind of ridiculous to pull this "timeline" crap.

Initially, every character slot has access to 100% of the content. How you play determines what is eventually restricted. If she said "every character slot will always be able to access 100% of the content", it would have been different.

Low-level arenas can be considered content. Your choice to level higher than the range allowed restricts your ability to enter them, just as your choice to be a Canthan restricts your ability to do pre-LA missions. This is just a much larger step.

You're right.. In that case, it might be better to have 4 slots with 100% of Tyria and 4 slots with 100% of Cantha (unless you plan more than 4 other either Tyrians or Canthans). If you change your mind, that's another story. If you want 8 Tyrians or 8 Canthans, the same applies. In either case, the trade-off is between having 8 characters, each with 100% access to what they start in but no access to the other one or only 6 characters with 100% access to what they start in but about 70%(Tyria) or 99%(Cantha) access to the other one (depending upon Canthan or Tyrian and the numbers of each). With the noted technique allowing a person to run two copies of GW at once, you get the bonus of being able to take two characters out together (such as to run your other character yourself).

Some people weren't thinking that we'd get low-level missions as such (that wouldn't be too much fun, but something). Someone asked a while back (to Gaile or the Frog, or maybe one of the NCSoft interviews) how it would be possible for level 20 ascended characters to enjoy all of the content in the other one. The answer was something to the effect that we shouldn't worry about it and that we'll like what we see. This is true with Factions. They designed the game so it really starts at level 20 after pre-sear. I, among some others, was intrigued by the idea that they were going to somehow make Chapter 1 playable to Canthans and was thinking along the lines of missions being more powerful when Canthans went into them. I kick myself though when I do that. I get too optimistic and start dreaming away at things that probably don't happen, causing my own disappointment lol.

I'm merging mine because there's the possibility that the Ascalon content is actually at the end of the story this time (but matched to a Canthan's level). There goes me dreaming again, but perhaps.. :-) Plus, I'm attached to my primary character and want him to conquer Cantha lol

If I was a Factions player first, I think it would be a bit different. By then I'd have more than a Ritualist and Assassin. I'd probably feel compelled to delete the others and restart them in Tyria so I can experience everything instead of having say 2 warriors or 2 monks, etc.. Tyrian players don't have that problem. Our characters pretty much get all Cantha has to offer since we can add the two new classes.

Sense to the story arc with expanding characters is irrelevant. Teh story arc doesn't make sense that you can become an outlaw wanted for treachery against the state and ever reappear in Kryta, the Wilds, or Ascalon either. To make chronological sense the game would have to prevent any character from going back to a previously traversed area, and prevent them from leaving one they ahve not completely finished. This would not be profitable for ANet. One a person had played thru all the way with each available class they would have no reason to ever play again.

Under the chronological scenario guild members should never be able to go and assist fellow guildees at lower levels of play. All members of a guild would have to be of the same level and in the same area. The area restrictions set against being a part of missions etc. is based more on an unwilingness to try and ballance the skills of the opposed forces with those of the new classes.

An example would be that Gnashers use Bone Fiends, so that spell remains unaltered. Core skills had to be balanced against the new ones and the combinations used by monsters. Not having to deal with the intricacies of the monster groups in lower areas saves time on analysis and avoids additional nerfing/tweaking.

All in all, 6 months appears to be too optimistic an output for ANet to manage given their resources. Prophecies was just starting to be fully functional when Factions came out. A year of tweaking on each 6 month release, instead of a couple extra months to do more difficulty prevention, will become production time consuming.

Denying classes access to the various missions and quests forces two things:
1) It creates a gold sink for any campaign specific skills.
2) It forces active guilds to maintain officers capable of both or be unable to assist and support their membership. Afterall, a guild founded in Cantha will be of little or no use to anyone playing in Prophecies. Only elite guilds formed by the most avid players, that continue to buy all chapters, will be able to assist members in areas they need to tackle. It amounts to buy it or be excluded.

Personally I see no reason to be this way. The game is becoming too rigid in all respects. It is not flexible enough to hold value for the huge variaty of real lives it must interface with.

1) The mission and quest limitations rigidly prevent player interaction.
- They should be open so that guilds can move about and assist their members freely.

2) The comm.s limitations in alliance situations rigidly prevent player interaction.
- The players fighting on the same side should be able to interact with each other without having to relay all messages to fellow players through commanders/guild officers or shout their intentions in the all channel.

3) the Party Formation list is too rigid.
- The players should be able to read and follow the position of all allied members, not just their team limit.
- Further the Party Formation list is too random. The player should be able to arrange the names in their list accoring to preference. In example, a monk should be able to place warriors together, casters together, monks and ritualists together, or however they feel would best suit their observance of the field and ability to act. Skills can be moved from slot to slot, party member names in the list could be set to move in the same manner. And disconnected mapped names should drop to the bottom sliding every name previously below up one.

4) The alliance system is too rigid for casual players. It pits large guilds containing avid profesional players against small guilds of friends, and ensures smaller guilds, who will never have equal amounts of faction, must play an inferior game exiled from certain other areas. This caste system is appropriate to the Oriental Dynasties of Egypt thru China millenia ago, but is not appropriate for modern peoples. It is as bad or worse than failing to have alternate access systems for PvP controlled areas in Prophecies.

Fitz

The slot math was always fuzzy, but this mission/quest lock-out feature isn't a totally bad one.

Early quests/missions offer very little challenge to a lvl 14+ canthan character that has just got out of shing jae... but you would feel "forced" to do them anyway for the skill points. Now, you aren't. With all the xp/skills you get, shing jae isn't the equiavlent of pre-sear, its the equivalent of the entire game up to kryta. If tyrians are kept out of the shing jae missions, canthans have to be kept out of ascalon to avoid canthans having unfair rewards avaliable to them. The extra skills the cantha prof switching grants makes up for the profession-specific ascalon quests you are missing out on as well.

Although it would be more ideal if you could participate in the missions without recieving any awards, then you can help your guildies or explore the entire map if you wanted. Still, that would be even more confusing if it wasn't explained somehow in-game.

I was going to post this exact arguement till i saw yours. i've sat down and tried to think of a logical reason (costs on their end, character 'glitches' that could be caused etc) and I see absolutely ZERO logical reason to block early mission content. i'm very much hoping theres a legit reason, and they do have the right to force people to create prophecies characters to access those missions, but why? why do something "stupid" thats only going to make the customers unhappy (which this is just one more straw on the factions-camel's-back for me).

Maybe its about the fact that it doesnt make sense story wise... what im trying to say is pre-LA is about the Ascalonians getting to Kryta and away from the Charr.

Thats just my oppinion

So how does it make sense, story-wise, that any level 20 Prophesies character can travel back in time at the click of a mouse button and replay those missions? How does it make sense that any Prophesies character can get run to Droknar's, do all missions from that point onward, then go back and finish random missions in no particular chronological order?

It doesn't, does it? Why arbitrarily allow Tyria-born characters to mess up the story and deny Canthans that privilige?

ID Hardly say equivalent, it doesnt have the same amount of content, fair enough by the time you finish the monestary you can be the same level as reaching Kryta, but you can finish all monestary area stuff in less than a day, doing everything on the way to kryta would take longer. So imo, they are equivalent in numbers, but not in content.

The latter part of that is what they do now

What also annoys me is that you can't create Rits and Assassins for the Prophecies campaign. When everyone was worried about whether Factions would ruin PvE, I thought, even if it does, I get two new professions to play in Prophecies. That turned out to be only partially true. It wouldn't have taken much for them to allow rits/assassins to be created for Prophecies--add a few training quests to pre, update the quests that give out skills. That's it.

As for the 100% content, when someone says if you link Factions and Prophecies accounts, you only get two slots, but you have access to 100% content, then I expect access to 100% content (barring the training areas). 100% content means all missions and quests for both campaigns. It does not mean each character slot *initially* has access to 100% content or any bullshit like that. 100% content was NOT qualified in any way--linking Prophecies and Factions was hyped to us as the better option because then your characters would have 100% content in Tyria AND Cantha.

Screw the story--nobody really gives a crap about the story after they've been through it once (some people don't give a crap ever). Since when has continuity been important in GW?

well, 6x80% = 480
thats still better than 8x50% = 400

i took my assassin to ascalon yesterday and it really sucks to find all the quests and missions disabled. almost as frustrating as exploring in cantha where, if you somehow make it to the next town, the gate is locked EVERY time :S

what happened to giving the players the freedom to decide how they want to play?

As another post about this exact same topic, 100% content is decided by the game makers. We have 100% content available to all characters. Anything EXTRA, like the stuff before LA for Canthan characters and the same goes for Tyria characters trying to go to the extra areas below where they start out is just that, EXTRA.
End users do not dictate what is 100% content. You can obviously voice your opinions about things you'd like to add to that content, or whatever suggestions to make the game better for ALL, not just those who don't follow the storyline.

How can that be true when some of my characters can't play all missions?

I doubt there'd be much complaining if Anet had spelled out exactly what content Canthan and Tyrian characters would have access to if you linked accounts. What it did say was that if you linked accounts, you would only get two new character slots, but all characters would have access to 100% content. It's not unreasonable, based on that, for people to expect that all six characters can do all storyline missions and all optional quests.

if i make a char in world x i get 100% of world x content... problem is when char x goes to world y you get less than 100% of y content...

access to content does not redefine what it means to be 100%.

Anet, this is a deal breaking issue, you lied to me. You will not see more of my $ ever unless you fix this.

Heh, we may not dictate what 100% means but we were led to believe "100% of Tyria" meant just that. When the game is released only to reveal that 100% of Tyria actually means 75-80% of Tyria with no ability to begin a Factions character IN Tyria, is it really surprising some of us are a little miffed about it?

So I'll say again, it's not about what they gave us, it's about them leading us to believe that if we linked our accounts and gave up 2 character slots, we would get more than they gave us. I'm not so sure I would have linked them if I knew I would be unable to start a Zin or Rit in Old Ascalon.....I would have possibly just left them separate and played Factions as a new game. Honestly, who knows? The fact is I didn't even have the correct information I should have had laid out in front of me before I had to make such a decision. Now I am left feeling decieved.

I won't stop playing since I love Guild Wars and am rather loyal to A.Net for the work they've done and the customer support they put out but it will most likely (unless A.Net shows their old colors again and really shines through on updates) cause me to be joining the throngs of people who will bow out of chapter 3. I like the way they used to make us (the gamers) feel like important pieces in a million piece puzzle...the way they ran their PR campaign just makes me feel like a cog in a corporate factory.

I've been wondering what happened to the supposedly 6 x 100% as well. Though I am even more curious as to why Arena Net has yet to respond to this with their excuse as to why we aren't getting 100% as they said we would. It is quite obvious they are reading these posts still as shown here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3024947
Just seems a little... odd, no?

The OP is correct.

The logic was: merge accounts and get more content!

Then it came... oh you can buy more slots for $10 a pop.
Then... Canthan characters can't do quests before LA.

So... Tyria 100%, Cantha 100% = merge two 80% content. Imagine I'm a new player and I buy both games. I start in Cantha and can't do pre-LA quests. From the point of view of the character I lost content. From the point of view from the player I can just make a new character in Tyria and get access to everything.

So..rip off!

Greetings,

I, like many others, was confused about the whole "6x100% vs 8x50%" explanation. I don't know if this was made perfectly clear by ANet (I don't feel like digging through the history), but I took that to mean 6 characters would have 100% of the content (merged) vs having 8 characters only having 50% of the content (unmerged).

If the 6x100% was account based, then fine - 100% content it is. However, why didn't they (ANet) just simply say our accounts would have 100% of the content. "6x100%" implies to me that the 6 characters would have 100% content. An individual character DOES NOT have 100% content, as implied by the "6x100%" argument. There are many posts explaining this, but let me summarize:

1. Tyrian characters cannot do the missions on the Shing Jea Monastery island. This is counted in the Canthan Explorer title as well as the Canthan missions title.
2. Canthan characters cannot do the missions in Ascalon or North Shiverpeaks (have not personally tested this, but other posters confirm this). This is counted in the Tyrian Explorer title as well as the Tyrian missions title.
3. If Tyrians and Canthans were not meant to explore their non-native continent, why are the related titles tracked on those characters?

I am with others that have posted similar feelings. The impression we were given is that the CHARACTERS, not the ACCOUNT, would be given full 100% access, hence the "6x100%" argument.

I accepted the fact that immigrating characters wouldn't have full access on the first day when my Tyrian characters were not able to do the Shing Jea Monastery missions (I brought them over for Day of the Tengu). That does not mean I'm happy about it, or that we were not mislead by a vague statement of what the 100% in the formula was indicating.

If those who are arguing the counter to this position would provide links to ANet comments to support their position that we, the player base, were not mislead, then by all means feel free. If the opposing position is proven, then I will amend my position at that time. Until then, I will play the game, and accept the fact that we are not getting 100% of the content as indicated.

Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777

You are admitting then that they created titles that are then denied the charcters based on place of birth. (And I like and promoted the concept of titles.) You are also assuming, inspite of the many threads to the contrary, that a complaint about access to content based on character creation is the only complaint anyone has or has made about the Factions campaign. That is so optimistic as to require Crimson and Clover to achieve.

There are complaints about spell casting times in timed missions with no timer to guage your performance by. There are complaints about Assassins lacking skills that are really effective to make up for their lack of armor when their combat techniques require tanking. There are complaints about armor. There are complaints about access based upon someone else controlling cities/missions. There are complaints about the inefficiency of ANet and NC Soft to bother observing and preparing for their consumer base to purchase and receive the product in a timely manner. There are complaints about the nerf bat attacking necro core skills needed in Tyria, but whose counter skills to offset the change are supplied in Cantha. There are complaints about body blocking creating problems to the point where some must log off and start their mission over in order to get past an NPC or get a henchman unstuck from an NPC. There are complaints about body blocking failing to be limited in dimension so foes can block you from 30 ft below the bridge you are crossing. There are complaints about lack of bonus content and a feeling of being lied to when we were told each mission would have two bonuses. Now one gets to do the missions 2-4 times for: capping, mission (kill-fast), bonus 1 (kill faster), Bonus 2 (kill fastest). To many this makes the two bonuses per mission a sham, providing no content and done as an attempt to force PvP style play on the PvE player. There are complaints about being forced to destroy one's guild in order to join the biggest most powerfull faction-farming machine posible to have access to areas without having to beg someone to let you in (or potentially pay them). There are complaints about the server system interfering with the play of friends. (Americans can form teams anywhere and transport them from international and home districts, but other regions cant.) There were pre-existing complaints about PvP controlling PvE content access, now made into a worse system. There are complaints about the 12v12 Party List not showing evrything a monk wants to know and a party leader needs to know. There are complaints about comm.s being restricted to guild leaders and leaving the line incapable of coordinating without going thru the time consuming command and control communications system that is set up. (This will mean no one will be allowed to do alliance battles that is not on Teamspeak or Ventrilo.) There are complaints about increased lag since Factions started.

I would say that trying to indicate we are merely nit-picking on one small measely little thing is an inaccurate perception.

Fitz

yes there is a lot of nitpicking going on, a lot of which doesnt have anything to do with the threads topic.
that being said, i really dont see a reason why we shouldnt be allowed to do all missions. my goal is to get as many titles as possible with my main character, and i cant get the canthan exploration or missions titles. i cant take my assassin to try and solo nolani together with prince rurik. and if a friend wants to get a survivor title with a new character, i cant help because my monk doesnt have access to the early missions :S

I'll have to agree with this one; my understanding was that if you merged your accounts all your chars would have free reign to all the content of both chapters (except maybe the "presearing" areas I guess)

This was disappointing to find out you don't get that - it's beside the point that the story doesn't make sense/time travel... since people often go back and do previous quests/missions perhaps with guildmates etc. anyway

I also don't see why it's been limited in this way. It can't be to do with levels because there are no limits on chapter 1 chars going back and doing older missions, so why this limitation for merged accounts?

There should be an option, once one has the same number of skills available in Pre (ie. has chosen a second class) to go to Post Searing Ascalon. The difficulty comes about in that ANet will not have enough room to create skills quests just for the new classes of every new release. There is no reason GW could not last thru chapter 20. If MASH and the Simpsons can do it - why not?

What I recommend is that each new class have its skills made available from the skills trainers. Certain of these, that would be regularly received thru quests, cost gold but not a skill point.

I do not remember any quests that grant both skills and a skill point but I could be wrong. That could be amended so that the new classes do not lose out on skill points for transfering.

What is paramount is that two things have occurred on this issue that need corrected:

1) The consumer has had the product misrepresented to them to such an extent that many feel they have been defrauded.
2) The characters cannot provide the support and interaction necessary to assist fellow guild members at any place and any time, meaning the concept of cooperative play is non-existent. This undermines the very foundation of the Guilds.

Fitz

I have a feeling that Anet will be getting coal this Christmas...

Yeah, I am baffled at this decision to prevent completion of missions. There is absolutely 0 reason Anet chose to do this. Most things, I can at least see a half-thought through reasoning, for this, none. So what if the Shing Jea missions are beginner. There are NOT on the same level as the one "semi" mission which brings you to Old Ascalon via Pre-sear (which does NOT count as 1 of the 25 missions of Tyria). Nor should it matter if level 20 Canthans go back and do Ruins of Surmia or what have you. That is an option of a Tyrian character, so it in turn should be the same for Canthan, based upon the premise of 6*100% content. This is definately a slip-up on Anet's part IMO and needs to be changed in the future.

The Prophecies story never made sense anyway. After fleeing Ascalon with Rurik, you should never be allowed back into the Ascalon areas and cities, but you are. Also, there's a glitch in the storyline in that you can get quests from Shining Blade people before you discover <something> about the White Mantle. If you follow the optional quests in the order given, you accidentally leap over a mission that clues you in to the <something>. So I don't buy that they did it for story reasons since the story never hung together, anyway.

Wait, so all of you are angry that you can't stomp through newbie missions with your high-level characters? When they said 100%, they meant 100% of the content sane people care about.

I care about the storyline missions before Gates of Kryta. Nobody is talking about pre-searing. I also care that I can't create Rits and Assassins for the Prophecies campaign.

Well...

You get like 6x80%, which is like 480%, vs. 8x50%, which is 400%, so you still come out on top... kinda.

And, of course, if you're a big PvPer, merging is the obvious choice to be able to use all the stuff you've unlocked for that account.

It's official and we all knew it... the merge = 100% math was just some rationalization to appease the masses (the players). GW screwed us all.

I don't like the complaining, but I will agree that there is no reason that Anet can pin their hat on about not allowing Canthan characters to do missions pre-LA.

Tyrian characters can skip around and then go back... I did with my last two characters - I took them straight from Ascalon to Sanctum Cay and did the missions from there until Droks.

I took my level 13 Mesmer through Ascension and became level 18... then I went to UW/FOW for some fun.

Then I went back later to do the earlier quests for the skill points, etc.

Perhaps Anet is working on augmenting those areas and they will be open in the future, but simple not allowing it does not have a valid reason that I can see.

Explain exaclty how you got screwed.

We didn't get what they said we'd get if we linked Prophecies and Factions.

I'm still not understanding why anyone thinks we didn't get 100% content. Do you not aknowledge that YOU do not determine what 100% content is, the game developers do, so we have 100% content, period, end of dicussion.

Obviously the EXTRA areas would be nice to explore and do the misssion, but it doesn't fit the storyline, etc.... but make suggestions and maybe they will give us this EXTRA area, but until we get 150% or 200% content, be happy with the 100% we have been given.

Somehow there are those that can not grasp the concept of 100% content

I have responded to your Re-Defining 100% coments already. Please read.

You must work for Anet.

nolani is not an extra area of prophecies. You are saying I have 80% access to Tyria so therefore that is 100%

Many people have refuted the storyline argument here - by that logic , you sholdn't be able to back track. How does the fact you roam around LA after the fact you killed off their leaders and would be considered a tratior fit into the 'storyline'? If the continituty of the story line means so much to you - then do go back and play them.

For those that want to, it doesn't affect your experience with the story so why restrict them?

As for free Xp and Skill points - clearly this is not an Anet concern as they give both away like candy in Cantha.

It was advertised before release that you were able to get 100%. Its almost like a bait and switch tactic. I'm sure people would have still bought faction, but don't lie to us about it.

I personally think Anet lost some credibility and it will hurt them in the next chapter.

I love it.

New math, back tracking, semantics, etc.

New excuses, same ol sh!t.