Add %'s for individual areas

Pre-searing + Catacombs arent included in exploration! So if you were exploring pre-searing to include that in the cartographer title, you kind of wasted your time.

But that isnt your fault, you wouldnt have known when you first started, just as I didnt.

To help newbies, we dont need %s on areas. Instead we need the training areas to include training in exploration. Lessons about uncovering fog and hugging walls. A short quest to make you explore a small-ish area of land and once you do, you get a reward.

Have a short bit of text explaining that places like the catacombs and pre-searing dont count towards the title. That would be alot more helpfull at teaching people to explore.

Then we dont need % counts for set areas.

I 100% sympathise because ive been there and done it obviously. I know you've probably put a hole in your wall already from frustration.

But I personally have to stick to my belief that %s arent needed. Purely because I know it can be done. But I wish you all the best, and I hope you get that last 2%. You will feel on-top of the world once you do. You'l be dancing from the roof top and you'l be able to relax.

It'l be worth it.

/signed - I personally love this idea.

/signed

i like it

Since ANet seems to be devoting some resources to those that stay in presearing, Defender of Ascalon, Charr Bags, etc, perhaps this is another thing that could be added, Ascalonian Cartographer...although with the way ANet's been moving with places like the Undercity in Factions and alot of the underground locations in Nightfall where those areas don't actually count towards the mapping titles.

Personally, I haven't done any exploration in a while. I did most of the mapping as I went, I just wanted to explore everything with my assassin, my first character. It was pretty easy to get up to 80%. 90% just meant mapping all those far out areas in the Jade Sea or the Echovald Forest. Getting up to 95% (and to where I currently am) involved looking at a few threads and realising that I had to map the PvP areas, , challenge missions, get banished by Shiro, etc, but that was long before Nightfall came out. I haven't even really considered trying more in months. Something like this though, if it happens, I probably would go back and finish it off.

As for getting excited or putting holes in walls, perhaps, perhaps not. I tend not to get overly excited at times. It'd probably be a good feeling to get it done, but I doubt I'll be shouting from the roof tops. I definately won't be dancing. I couldn't inflict that on the world.

Is it really just seeing percentages on maps that bother you? What if instead it was just that when you complete an area, like Sunqua Valley or Kaineng Center, it just gets marked with a different colour when your explorer title is activated? ie when you get to 60% you can check the title and then on the continent map the names of the towns are marked in a different colour or perhaps colours (ie darkens from yellow to red, since green is a quest marker) for the amount of that area completed. Would that bother you so much?

I'm willing to admit that some of my motivation against this idea is because its unfair to those of us who got 100% without the need for this.

There are those of us who (as mentioned) spent along time, and alot of frustration getting grandmaster using the existing system.

If Anet suddenly added this % system into the game and removed that frustration and difficulty, its kind of a slap in the face. But my motivation is primarily that I strongly believe its not needed, because those of us who have it are evidence it can be done.

I think better ingame training for exploration is whats needed.

I have written very long posts concerning this issue.
To put it in a nutshell, I believe that ANet has omitted that by error. I don't believe that their intention was for us to "scrape" walls for a living.

I hope that they "fix" this.

I would also like to suggest that we have a poll on this, and that it is included in the proposals towards the developers.

/signed

Negative Ghostrider! All that BS about pixels and "I mapped everything and I can't find the last spots PLEASE HELP ME.." really means they DID NOT edge all the zones. Every time I earned a GMC title I started with one zone and mapped them all and checked them off a list. That's how it is and how it should stay. If you're not willing to do that then you don't deserve the title.

Says who Stank Tank? You?!!

I did what you say. I mapped and got off the list. GMC title cannot be achieved by casually mapping. I have reached 98.8% in Cantha and 98.6% in Elona.

IMHO people who put the effort and time, and are willing to fight the mobs and scrape ALL the walls do deserve the GMC title.

I do agree that by entering the percentiles will make it easier. But it will still requier a LOT of work and dedication.

/signed

Just tell which area is not fully explored might not need to tell the percentage.
It hard to spot those little cloud anyway.
/signed
Maybe they the next chapter cloud make the exploration title simple by adding a landmark point instead of clearing out the fog.

in the light of this idea. they should also add ?/5 chests opened for those doing the treasure hunter title.

/signed

i would actually go for these titles if something like this were implemented. currently, i won't bother because i would be super pissed if i got to 99% and had to resort to pixel hunting (which is just dumb, imo, because of the clouds/jpeg compression/wiggle room/etc). this title should be for everyone willing to explore every area 100%, not just those who are better at finding a needle in a haystack in photoshop, so to speak.

I am doing the Cartographer titles on my warrior at the moment, and in tyria i am on 99.2% and i cant see any areas besides the old arenas that are not uncovered. But as frustrating and difficult it is to find all the tiny little slithers of cloud i have missed, and as much as this idea would be great i am gonna have to say

/notsigned

Simply because it will make the titles to easy to gain since youll know where to look for the missing map. And also its a kick in the nads to those people who have already worked to earn these titles. Id be kinda miffed too if after the time ive put into scraping areas especially S.shiverpeaks and RoF, and they add this new feature. The completion of grinding to earn one of these titles also has the satisfaction of having earned it, adding this feature will imho cheapen the title too.

/not signed this is probably the hardest title to get and it would simply become a pointless title if the percentages were used.

I think that instead of percentages, it should show if you fully did an area or not. It isn't hurting anybody, and it is still going to be a pain to find that spot, but at least someone doesn't have to waste as much time scrapping walls all over the place and finding the needle isn't as hard. I don't think that many more people will go for the title, but if so oh well, it'll help people (and those people probably need it).

I have to add another thought to this.

I think the main issue with the Grandmaster Cartog title is that it has this stigmata in the GWs world of being "easy". So many (arrogrant) players run around, making statements about the exploration titles being easy to attain.

The chances are their probably wammos who think the sun shines out their own rear-ends. They think they could move the moon if they tried, but they dont.

The result is that other players think "Hmmm ok. Im going to try for exploration since it so easy."

Then once they start doing it, they realise its actually alot of hard work and requires time and effort and patience.

When that patience runs out, and they can't be bothered. They start complaining and want it changed to benefit them.

Before you start exploring, keep in mind that its not as easy as people say it is. Its not just a case of hugging walls, and having a nice walk around the game. Most people who say "ah... that title is rubbish because its easy", have never even tried it, or they gave up.

You have to be prepared to put time and effort into 100%.




Percentages in seperate areas is just a complete /notsigned

I could be persuaded to /sign the idea of showing which areas are 100% complete. Like a flag on an area to show 100% for that zone.

But individual, exact % marks in set areas is just tooooo easy as I've said before.

all it tells you is how much of that part of the map you have explored. it doesnt tell you where the missing piece is. There are parts of the map i still dont see i missed but my title shows i have. The % would at least tell me where i am missing in general. This isnt spoon feeding only ending redundant wandering somewhere u dont need.

/signed

~the rat~

If you consider how big a map area (the area between two or more portals) can be, it is spoon feeding. Areas dont tend to be very big, and some are extremely small.

Or it is in my view.

And what you can "redundant wandering" I call hard work, effort and persistance.

I think this is a good idea i have little specks missiong and i don't know where they are.... if this was shows from 1% then it would be easy to sit and look and say hey ive got 45% of that portal i need to go and uncover more ground. This WOULD be easy, however... if this worked like the new Vanquisher title and only showed a marker of 100% when the area has been completed then youd be able to see what areas still need to be completed but not by how much or where youd just have to go back to that area and look around harder.

Thats just my thought and i thihnk it would work very vell... but hey thats just me haha.

Happy Hunting!

Yep. I definitely can't keep track of which explorable areas i've scraped in Tyria and which ones I haven't. O.o;

/signed

You're so right ... /signed.

/signed with this idea

/signed.

I've always wanted to do Cartographer but when I look at it on a large scale I put myself off of it because of the size of the provinces and if I got to 99.9% and couldn't find the rest, I wouldn't be happy.

perhaps a region %? like ascalon, kryta, southern shiver, etc?

its rather lame to have 99.5% and cant find what your missing no matter how many times you compare a map..

happened to me with my nec 99.9 for 2 months till i was helping a guildie with bloodstone fen and poof i had it..../signed with a golden pen made of awesomeness

Id have to agree with putting some sort of symbol to show which regions of the map have been fully explored and which ones havent. I wouldnt suggest putting the % missing in each region just for the fact that people have already gotten this title without any help at all. But sitting there with 2-3% and not knowing where to start sucks.

/signed

And to the people that say this would make this "unhard" for ppl to get, what about vanquishing titles? They have the # of monsters killed in a little box on your screen...Hard mode is suppose to be hard and having a box to tell you how close you are to vanquishing an area seems pretty easy to me.

Your comparing the vanquishing counter to having a % mark for exploration?

1) One is exploration and one is killing!!!
2) You need to know whether you are close to wiping all the creatures.
3) Vanquishing is new and people dont know how many creatures are in areas. They have never had to concider it!
4) Vanquishing can be ALOT harder then exploring in certain areas. The counter a necessity.
4) Exploration has been proven to be do-able without % marks.
5) The fog is the equilivant of the counter in vanquishing.
6) Everytime you enter to vanquish an area it resets to 0, unlike exploration and the fog. You need to keep track of what you kill each time.

The bottom line is that exploration can be done without % marks.

And having a counter when vanquishing, certainly DOESNT make it any easier. Does the counter make the creatures easier to kill? does it make them stand still and let us pumell them? do they kill themselves with their own weapons because the counter tells them too?

Nope. The counter is just a counter, it doesnt help in anyway with vanquishing other then to show how many are left.

Yes, exactly.
/Notsigned.

For one thing i didnt say put the % you need in each area, if you read what i typed i said to just put something to show which areas have been fully explored, that way you dont need to go to an area already fully explored.

Vanquishing can be done without seeing how close you are to having all monsters dead aswell, all you do is it push the button "u" or "m" look at where all your little red dots are and if you see a spot that doesnt have red dots, thats where the rest of your monsters are. And if im correct, once you vanquish each area the helmet on your map turns gold with a star next to it...why cant explorer title have something like that?

Even if it did just tick off which areas you have completed instead of %s in zones. I just dont believe that any changes are needed to exploration, as its shown it can be done without anything changed.

As for vanquishing...

When seeing little red dots on the U map, that is limited to your field of view. You cant see the creatures which are outside of that. Its not just a case of pressing U and expanding the map and it shows you all the creatures in a zone and their locations.

And how does opening the map help with vanquishing when it doesnt show anything to do with creatures?

The major difference with the vanquishing count (as I said), is that it resets each time you enter. Its not a case of entering a zone, killing some creatures and having it save your progress, so you enter later and finished the job.

But exploration saves your progress! It saves what you reveal and removes the fog as you go. It is just a case of leaving a zone and finishing it later.

We need the counter due to that reset and because it can vary how many creatures are in a zone. Its not always the same value, so you need a counter/meter to gives you an estimate on how many are left.

I just dont understand how you can make a comparison between exploring and vanquishing, because they are completely different activities which require different techniques and mentalities to do.

/notsignedevenwithguntohead

anyone that knows me knows how much i HATE mapping
i still managed to get Grandmaster , only done one so far, but still
this would be a huge cheat, just like some ppl getting Legendary Skill Hunter buy tomes , whats the point in that, i was proud of my cap title cause i worked hard to kill every boss and cap it, now ppl just "buy" it.

like ppl have said before me, this title should be HARD to get
just jumping between zones would make this title doable in a day easily if u had already finished the game

The game already has too many easy/ebay titles. If they keep making them easier, there's no point in them.
Besides, MANY, MANY people achieved Legendary GM, including me, the way it is now. It's far from impossible to achieve...

/notsigned

Ever notice a pattern on Guru?
"I had to grind why make it easier" but it's called evolution when it happens on a grand scale and that attitude is stupidity at its finest

What if Swan and Edison said "i had to read by flame light why bother helping others create a light bulb" (Specially Swan as he played a huge part but if you ask 99% of people who worked on the light bulb they will say Edison and not mention Swan, even though all Edison did was imporve the "life-time" of the filiment).

History is full of people that have solved the first half of a thoery or half invented something for it to be picked up later and finished by others, the people that made the first half rarely get half the recognition they deserve.

Back on GW topic : Sorry if more people having Legendary Cartographer will de-value yours but the "I had to struggle why can't others" is a really bad attitude to have.

Did you just compare exploration to the invention of the light-bulb!!

Seriously, you cannot compare the invention of a lightbulb to exploration inside guildwars! But if you insist...

Your talking about the development of technology which was a necessity to supplying cheaper and more efficient lighting and warmth to millions of people around the country and the world.

The exploration of a fog covered JPG image doesnt really register quite that high up in terms of importance.

We're not preventing the reinvention of the wheel, or stopping the solution to world hunger, or prevent space exploration by saying...

"We dont need % marks in GWs because it can be done without them".

...adding % marks is not going to suddenly create renewable enegery sources, cure cancer or get this I like to talk to me!

The only thing it will do, is make life a bit easier for some lazey ingame players, who cant be bothered to put the same effort in as the other 100s of legendary cartrographers. While also dragging Anet staff away from more important stuff.

People please understand this before you try to start exploring... its hard and it takes time and effort.

If you listen to all those rumours about "exploration is easy and it'l get you an easy 3 maxed titles" then you will learn the hard way.

Back to the lightbulb thing...

...do you not think inventing the lightbulb was easy or hard? Did he stop half way through and winge and cry and shout "dam you god, why cant you make the lightbulb easier to invent"?

And then sit around and wait for god to make it a bit easier before continuing!

You cant compare the need to create a new way to create light, to improving the way in which people explore a map inside a computer game.

The exploration in the game already exists and works.

The lightbulb didnt exist and needed created.

/signed.
I don't try and get it, but I can see this helping those who do, out alot!

Or you can use someone mod (cough) http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:..._modifications to mae unfogging easier and more optical. Ate all, knowing which sport to unfog is better than having 99% at area and no clue where to go.

heh. Fish you sure are getting freeked out in this thread :P
(for the record i agree with JeniM totally; and Fish you should know that laughing at someone like that is rather rude)

/signed

One still would need to do the 'work' of uncovering each area.

What this change would mean is that the pointless, wasteful time spent trying to work out what little tiny insubstancial part of the world... is yet uncovered; is diminished. It changes it to which little tiny insubstancial part of one area of the world.

That is not an unreasonable suggestion. In fact it is a very sensible one. That allows people to spend more time playing the game, than comparing pixels.

Some would say that just because it was a certain way before, sticking with that way is best...even if it is actually not the most sensible way. That attitude seems a little unreasonable to me.

I get that people have done it the 'hard way'. Great. You sat there thinking that this title is sensible..?.comparing different pixels from one map to another time and again, to work out which pixels havent been 'explored'...? :P

edit- Sorry mate, have to disagree again here - im not a lazy ingame player, far from it. I dont expect this to be changed, and i will in fact continue to keep doing the silly walking around walls for as long as it takes to get the title (just made 74% last night heh) So its nothing to do with not being bothered as you say.... Also, in terms of implementing it, i doubt it would take long, since there already is the opposing % figure of uncompleted, just would need to be split into areas if it isnt already (hidden) so. /edit

Comon guys, the whole purpose of us all suggesting things is to improve the gameplay for all.... as someone mentioned..evolution..

The concept of the title is good... exploring the gameworld. The flaw is that one can procede through areas actually exploring amazingly well, and STILL not achieve 100%. Multiply that by as many zones as there are in a gameworld, and you create a bit of a silly pixel hunt, which would be a little helped by using this suggestion. Cheers

OK i'll use the old standard statment for all the "I have it so keep it hard to get" people

"If their was a cure for cancer would you not want others to have it just because you beat cancer without it?" - A wise Guru poster

Thats a better analogy

/signed that would really reduce teh frustatrion of hugging the walls of every area just to find that last bit

/signed.....

/signed
Yep, that would be awesome!