Using this thread as a reference, it seems everyone's fears came true--and worse. Only the controlling alliance has access to the Elite Missions, and to compound on that, there are a grand total of two.
Two.
Bullshit. I asked Gaile about this roughly a week before release, her response was to "wait and see before I complain". Okay. I waited. I saw. I'm complaining.
Bullshit.
So, uh. (Elite Missions)
Kakumei
Str0b0
I knew it was gonna happen and what will also happen is maybe a grand total of five alliances get to do the missions the entire span of the game. Bugger the zodiac skins. I've got bank and someone will sell them for the right price. What I can't get through play I get with plat.
UndeadRoadkill
Yeah, I remember when everyone was worried about this, and anet refused to give us any solid information about it.
thrice
I guess I can safely say that I'll never be able to play an elite mission then.
sinisters chaos
yeah, kinda gay of GW, now about 3 diff alliances will be goging the towns, also when i asked gaile about this, she said "Im sure every alliance will have a chance" ... i laughed and knew it was complete BULLSHIT
elite items = GG, get ready to pay millions.
elite items = GG, get ready to pay millions.
UndeadRoadkill
This is the reason that my guild leader refuses to ally with my friend's one-man guild. The three of us all know each other in real life, and I thought it would be great to have us all in the same alliance, but no, "he doesn't have enough members in his guild to earn faction."
I paid for the content in those missions, but I'll likely never have a shot at them; and, to add insult to injury, they've created another system of exclusion.
I paid for the content in those missions, but I'll likely never have a shot at them; and, to add insult to injury, they've created another system of exclusion.
Kakumei
Very few alliances will control the capital cities. It's a simple fact. Being that there are only two, and you have to get more faction than EVERYONE ELSE, it's not going to change hands often--and when it does change hands, it'll only do it among a few different alliances.
It's not only unfair, it's horrible game design. Sure, design some awesome elite missions but only like three thousand people ever, out of hundreds of thousands, will ever get to see them. It's the (incredibly shitty) Favor system taken to even worse extremes.
And they didn't even toss in any other new tough dungeons to compensate--sure, you can access FoW and UW from Zin Ku Corridor, but there's literally nothing new.
What the hell, Anet?
It's not only unfair, it's horrible game design. Sure, design some awesome elite missions but only like three thousand people ever, out of hundreds of thousands, will ever get to see them. It's the (incredibly shitty) Favor system taken to even worse extremes.
And they didn't even toss in any other new tough dungeons to compensate--sure, you can access FoW and UW from Zin Ku Corridor, but there's literally nothing new.
What the hell, Anet?
Sayshina
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Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill
Yeah, I remember when everyone was worried about this, and anet refused to give us any solid information about it.
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Then they all shut up and suddenly Grey was the ONLY one you could talk to, and she simply ignored any post that wasn't a handjob, or if she did reply to something negative she usualy got sarcastic, dismissive, and in some cases downright rude to whoever had the nerve to complain.
The ONLY difference I can see this time around is that she seems to have learned her lesson about being rude. Well, that and the fact that all the decent PvP guys have already quit, so there probably won't be any mass exodos this time around.
But really. If you actualy thought this time was going to be different, you deserve what you got. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". This is clearly part of their business model. It seems to be along the lines of "these kids are so hopelessly stupid they'll buy whatever we decide to give them".
Why on earth did you give them your money without waiting to see where they were going to screw you this time around?
UndeadRoadkill
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Originally Posted by Kakumei
It's the (incredibly shitty) Favor system taken to even worse extremes.
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It's like they only listened to the complaints about how PvP was affecting PvE, and thought they had a really great idea about how PvE players could get in on it, and didn't really think about how exclusive it still was, and how it shits all over smal guilds and casual players.
I thought the complaints about favor expressed not so much that people had a problem with PvP controlling PvE, but that people *just don't like* exclusionary systems like this.
UndeadRoadkill
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Originally Posted by Sayshina
They did exactly the same thing at the end of beta's for the original release. They played all coy, told us to wait, we wouldn't be disappointed, blah, blah, blah.
Then they all shut up and suddenly Grey was the ONLY one you could talk to, and she simply ignored any post that wasn't a handjob, or if she did reply to something negative she usualy got sarcastic, dismissive, and in some cases downright rude to whoever had the nerve to complain. The ONLY difference I can see this time around is that she seems to have learned her lesson about being rude. Well, that and the fact that all the decent PvP guys have already quit, so there probably won't be any mass exodos this time around. But really. If you actualy thought this time was going to be different, you deserve what you got. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". This is clearly part of their business model. It seems to be along the lines of "these kids are so hopelessly stupid they'll buy whatever we decide to give them". Why on earth did you give them your money without waiting to see where they were going to screw you this time around? |
Red
Props to Roadkill, from the rest of us who are without knowledge of beta.
I feel the same way as the OP here... but let me just say: the exclusionary factor is in large part defeated, if the alliances can be kind enough to allow 1 or 2 casual guilds to enter at a time? By rotating like this, guilds who really want to get in can get the top alliances to temporarily let them in?
I wonder if the top alliances would be this kind... hm.
I feel the same way as the OP here... but let me just say: the exclusionary factor is in large part defeated, if the alliances can be kind enough to allow 1 or 2 casual guilds to enter at a time? By rotating like this, guilds who really want to get in can get the top alliances to temporarily let them in?
I wonder if the top alliances would be this kind... hm.
UndeadRoadkill
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Originally Posted by Redly
I wonder if the top alliances would be this kind... hm.
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Griff Mon
You know, the game is not even a week old at this point....
Allow things to develop a little bit.
When the whole "Favor of the Gods" thing started only America had favor with Korea getting it late at night and Europe getting it about once a month. Now Korea rarely has it, Taiwan and Japan pop up once in a while, and Europe and America fight over favor. I can't believe the amount of crying there is in ToA when it is after 8:00 PM Pacific when America doesn't have favor.
This is a new system of the game and things have to evolve. Give it time to work itself out.
Allow things to develop a little bit.
When the whole "Favor of the Gods" thing started only America had favor with Korea getting it late at night and Europe getting it about once a month. Now Korea rarely has it, Taiwan and Japan pop up once in a while, and Europe and America fight over favor. I can't believe the amount of crying there is in ToA when it is after 8:00 PM Pacific when America doesn't have favor.
This is a new system of the game and things have to evolve. Give it time to work itself out.
jules
I haven't bought Factions (yet) but from what I've been told the majority of faction earned will be from PvE. If this is true, competitive PvP guilds will not have an advantage over a big PvE guild.
Str0b0
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Originally Posted by jules
I haven't bought Factions (yet) but from what I've been told the majority of faction earned will be from PvE. If this is true, competitive PvP guilds will not have an advantage over a big PvE guild.
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Hello Kitty
I heard you just need one member of the controlling alliance to be nice enough to take you down there... anybody try that yet?
Seems like this might not be so bad. Anyone that is controlling will likely have buttloads of people, and the odds of you not knowing at least one person in that alliance would be pretty small amongst a full guild of people.
Seems like this might not be so bad. Anyone that is controlling will likely have buttloads of people, and the odds of you not knowing at least one person in that alliance would be pretty small amongst a full guild of people.
Lexar
It's not even the better guilds that dominate here, but the guilds with more people. No 12 man uber-dedicated and uber-skilled team will ever compete against a 1000 man behemoth alliance. Kinda goes against the skill over grinding principle that Anet is so proud to advertise.
I saw this coming a long time ago and posted on our guild forum about it, and our general consensus was that they'd never be foolish enough to make it actually work like this in the final product, but I guess we were kidding ourselves. I agree with the OP that indeed this is straight from the bull and kinda smelly. Lots of things like little mission bugs, armor not upgraded right 85 armor on platemail for example, all those things I don't care about, it's just small bugs that will get fixed. But this is a system at the very core of the game. They must have thought about this. This is a concept that just excludes 99.9% of the playerbase from content in the game, and that actually encourages faction farming on a massive scale. Is it just me or does that sound like it goes against everything that guildwars is supposed to stand for? No matter how good you are, you will probably never play elite missions unless you join a guild in a huge alliance.
I saw this coming a long time ago and posted on our guild forum about it, and our general consensus was that they'd never be foolish enough to make it actually work like this in the final product, but I guess we were kidding ourselves. I agree with the OP that indeed this is straight from the bull and kinda smelly. Lots of things like little mission bugs, armor not upgraded right 85 armor on platemail for example, all those things I don't care about, it's just small bugs that will get fixed. But this is a system at the very core of the game. They must have thought about this. This is a concept that just excludes 99.9% of the playerbase from content in the game, and that actually encourages faction farming on a massive scale. Is it just me or does that sound like it goes against everything that guildwars is supposed to stand for? No matter how good you are, you will probably never play elite missions unless you join a guild in a huge alliance.
Zaxan Razor
There may be hope yet..
as of earlier today..the alliance controlling Cavalon had 1.2 million faction.
Yesterday, a different alliance was controlling it with 2.4 million faction.
Maybe we need to analyse how alliances are awarded control.
as of earlier today..the alliance controlling Cavalon had 1.2 million faction.
Yesterday, a different alliance was controlling it with 2.4 million faction.
Maybe we need to analyse how alliances are awarded control.
ricocheting
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Originally Posted by Griff Mon
When the whole "Favor of the Gods" thing started only America had favor with Korea getting it late at night and Europe getting it about once a month. Now Korea rarely has it, Taiwan and Japan pop up once in a while, and Europe and America fight over favor.
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I don't know, and although i like that theres much more high-level content, I don't see anything at all to keep a pve player interested in factions. i'm very disapointed and as a pve player i'm personally loosing interest very fast
Kakumei
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Originally Posted by Esprit
If you pretend like there is no Fireworks master on the other side of the door, then you won't feel an emptiness of never hoping to talk to him.
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Originally Posted by ricocheting
I don't know, and although i like that theres much more high-level content, I don't see anything at all to keep a pve player interested in factions. i'm very disapointed and as a pve player i'm personally loosing interest very fast
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Esprit
Quote:
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But, I was being more sarcastic than anything. I want the Elite Missions too.Faction control degrades, the more you have, the more the loss will be after it degrades.
Lexar
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Originally Posted by Esprit
Faction control degrades, the more you have, the more the loss will be after it degrades.
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Still doesn't change the fact that the system is unfair to 99% of the players.
UndeadRoadkill
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Originally Posted by Lexar
Still doesn't change the fact that the system is unfair to 99% of the players.
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d3kst3r
So who are the two alliances that have control of the Elite Missions anyway?
Iskrah
Wow, talk about elitism.
That is just... wow.
Do they know how hard it is to find a good guild or to form a good grown-up alliance?
To get into HoH is peanuts compared to that.
That is just... wow.
Do they know how hard it is to find a good guild or to form a good grown-up alliance?
To get into HoH is peanuts compared to that.
Diablo???
As much as I loved all the new contents in factions, I have to agree this is rather discouraging. I rather a game that promotes newbies to join a competitive mission rather than to lock them out.
But if there's anything we've learned in the past, its that Arenanet may make some mistakes every now and then, but they're never too ashamed to correct them.... give it time.
But if there's anything we've learned in the past, its that Arenanet may make some mistakes every now and then, but they're never too ashamed to correct them.... give it time.
UndeadRoadkill
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Originally Posted by Diablo™
But if there's anything we've learned in the past, its that Arenanet may make some mistakes every now and then, but they're never too ashamed to correct them.... give it time.
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Fireworks, parades, having your alliance's name on a town, even discounts at merchants, all this would be fine. But what were they thinking when they cut people out of missions?
Does anyone know if the elite mission territory counts towards your exploration title percentage?
Celeborn
Actually at Breaker Hollow the gate is open (I don't control it though) and you can talk to the Fireworks guy. :P
(well it is for me anyways)
(well it is for me anyways)
Gli
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Originally Posted by Zaxan Razor
There may be hope yet..
as of earlier today..the alliance controlling Cavalon had 1.2 million faction. Yesterday, a different alliance was controlling it with 2.4 million faction. Maybe we need to analyse how alliances are awarded control. |
Tortoise
I'm not a huge fan of the system but it might not be as bad as we all fear.
1.2 million, though an awfull lot is basicly 120 people dumping their max faction. 160 people is quite a lot but it is only 16 people per guild. If you just want to access Elite missions then you could save up your faction and 'dump' it all at once at a pre-defined time. You thus get a huge boost and might be able to take control for a short time. I'm not sure this would solve all problems but it might give more people a chance to access them.
1.2 million, though an awfull lot is basicly 120 people dumping their max faction. 160 people is quite a lot but it is only 16 people per guild. If you just want to access Elite missions then you could save up your faction and 'dump' it all at once at a pre-defined time. You thus get a huge boost and might be able to take control for a short time. I'm not sure this would solve all problems but it might give more people a chance to access them.
Gli
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Originally Posted by Tortoise
I'm not a huge fan of the system but it might not be as bad as we all fear.
1.2 million, though an awfull lot is basicly 120 people dumping their max faction. 160 people is quite a lot but it is only 16 people per guild. If you just want to access Elite missions then you could save up your faction and 'dump' it all at once at a pre-defined time. You thus get a huge boost and might be able to take control for a short time. I'm not sure this would solve all problems but it might give more people a chance to access them. |
Sab
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Originally Posted by Diablo™
But if there's anything we've learned in the past, its that Arenanet may make some mistakes every now and then, but they're never too ashamed to correct them.... give it time.
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Justafyme
Awww but don't lose hope people...c'mon they just offered the CE people a little pet dragon to make up for the fact they were totally screwed over in multiple ways. Surely the 99.99% of us who aren't in huge guilds and can't access the elite missions will have something equally awesome thrown our way.
Oh I know maybe they will come up with a new system...where I can pay Anet real world money to buy time in the elite missions? My own little instanced copy that only costs me $10.00 a try.. BAH!
Oh I know maybe they will come up with a new system...where I can pay Anet real world money to buy time in the elite missions? My own little instanced copy that only costs me $10.00 a try.. BAH!
primal98
The games only a week old... so no worries :P Many things in the past have seemed like a total disater "OH NOES ANET TEH THIEF OF MA MON3Y!!"... and it all worked out nicely. If this method turns out to be a total disaster, Im sure ANET will fix it Give it a chance, as the month progresses more and more people will get further into thr game, new guilds will surface, and the control thing may balance out
~prime
Give it a chance, as the month progresses more and more people will get further into thr game, new guilds will surface, and the control thing may balance out ~prime
Iskrah
ANet did have an answer to the Favors' problem: "suck it up, get better and you'll get access. That's what competition is about baby.". The law of the jungle basically.
Well, when you have hundreds of thousands of people playing for America, and the same number for Europe, that makes 2 regions that will get Favor quite often (well, even then...). Or you could switch servers (and forget about playing with fellow americans, or fellow frenchies, or fellow germans, etc). That was already a big deal, as a Euro-server player, I felt bad for our Asian pals because we would just own the place.
Now it goes totally overboard.
I'm supposed to find AT LEAST 120 players coordinated in an alliance to take control of the capital, using all their Faction points? Knowing that barely 5% of the players even know of the existance of the cities because they're still in Kaineng? It will only get harder and harder. I'm sure HoH was nothing in April 2005 compared to now. What will city-owning be next? Just another world to motivated, but somewhat isolated, players.
Fck it. I've spent more than a few hundred hours on this great game, I love it, I've made friends but hey, it happens that the nicest and the funniest people are not always the most competitive. We're doing our best, enjoying the fact that others also have only 200 skill points...
I happen to be a guildmaster now, I have friends, we have a good time, but there is no chance we will get there. What will winning guilds do? Charge a fee to enter with them?
ArenaNet, I like your game most of all because of the level 20 concept. That's great. But you just go the exact opposite way there. That pisses off people, you should know that, right?
A solution maybe: leave the option to those guilds to leave the zone totally open (without having to send their players in parties). They'll get a nice reputation.
Well, when you have hundreds of thousands of people playing for America, and the same number for Europe, that makes 2 regions that will get Favor quite often (well, even then...). Or you could switch servers (and forget about playing with fellow americans, or fellow frenchies, or fellow germans, etc). That was already a big deal, as a Euro-server player, I felt bad for our Asian pals because we would just own the place.
Now it goes totally overboard.
I'm supposed to find AT LEAST 120 players coordinated in an alliance to take control of the capital, using all their Faction points? Knowing that barely 5% of the players even know of the existance of the cities because they're still in Kaineng? It will only get harder and harder. I'm sure HoH was nothing in April 2005 compared to now. What will city-owning be next? Just another world to motivated, but somewhat isolated, players.
Fck it. I've spent more than a few hundred hours on this great game, I love it, I've made friends but hey, it happens that the nicest and the funniest people are not always the most competitive. We're doing our best, enjoying the fact that others also have only 200 skill points...
I happen to be a guildmaster now, I have friends, we have a good time, but there is no chance we will get there. What will winning guilds do? Charge a fee to enter with them?
ArenaNet, I like your game most of all because of the level 20 concept. That's great. But you just go the exact opposite way there. That pisses off people, you should know that, right?
A solution maybe: leave the option to those guilds to leave the zone totally open (without having to send their players in parties). They'll get a nice reputation.
vtrajan
Do you all know the controlling alliances?
I would not judge groups of people you do not know. There may be some groups that would charge, but I sincerely believe that many of them would not charge entry fees. I do of course admit it is very possible, but unlikely.
Perhaps you might be able to contact the leading figures in some of these alliances, maybe a smaller one or one that you like, and apply to join?
If there's 10 guilds, it's likely there are positions open. Many positions.
I would think if you were smart, capable and mature you could apply and play with some good people that you like.
Many of them are open minded and accepting of players, especially with the possibility of someone to contribute faction. Just don't be a lunatic or a complete retard.
Hell..try to establish contact with some of them and play with them. Don't try to befriend them just to get into the mission.
It's a very challenging mission. Even if 90% of the people had access to it they would just die. And then they'd whine about the difficulty instead of the exclusivity (sp?). I think it's called Elite for more than just the comment.
Are you miffed because you have to spend faction for your guild and not for yourself to get amber/jadeite?
I would not judge groups of people you do not know. There may be some groups that would charge, but I sincerely believe that many of them would not charge entry fees. I do of course admit it is very possible, but unlikely.
Perhaps you might be able to contact the leading figures in some of these alliances, maybe a smaller one or one that you like, and apply to join?
If there's 10 guilds, it's likely there are positions open. Many positions.
I would think if you were smart, capable and mature you could apply and play with some good people that you like.
Many of them are open minded and accepting of players, especially with the possibility of someone to contribute faction. Just don't be a lunatic or a complete retard.
Hell..try to establish contact with some of them and play with them. Don't try to befriend them just to get into the mission.
It's a very challenging mission. Even if 90% of the people had access to it they would just die. And then they'd whine about the difficulty instead of the exclusivity (sp?). I think it's called Elite for more than just the comment.
Are you miffed because you have to spend faction for your guild and not for yourself to get amber/jadeite?
boxcarracers052
I'm pissed about this whole controlling thing too, but....
Why don't they make it so an Alliance can BUY ACCESS TO ELITE MISSIONS for say, a month at a time. If there are 12 stages to the mission, then it could be 100k faction for each stage. After paying 1.2 mil faction, you would have the entire elite mission unlocked for your guild for a whole month. Then, after the month the price could go down, maybe to 80k faction per stage. This would make it easier to get the more you get it, and encourage alliances to keep working hard to get access. Or, it could go opposite. Make it easy to get the first few times, but then make the cost higher and higher, so the alliances that like it most will work harder and harder to get more faction and capture!
Why don't they make it so an Alliance can BUY ACCESS TO ELITE MISSIONS for say, a month at a time. If there are 12 stages to the mission, then it could be 100k faction for each stage. After paying 1.2 mil faction, you would have the entire elite mission unlocked for your guild for a whole month. Then, after the month the price could go down, maybe to 80k faction per stage. This would make it easier to get the more you get it, and encourage alliances to keep working hard to get access. Or, it could go opposite. Make it easy to get the first few times, but then make the cost higher and higher, so the alliances that like it most will work harder and harder to get more faction and capture!
Greedy Gus
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Originally Posted by Gli
It's not as if some people don't have anything better to do with their lives than set a calender date for a damn computer game. I might have 15 years ago, but not in 2006.
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To all the people who are again using the silly logic that you're being denied access to "a part of the game that you paid for", that's just ridiculous. You bought a game that labels itself as a competitive roleplaying game, you paid for the ability to compete for the best stuff. Frankly, it's no mystery to me why the top alliances have decent to heavy PvP guild involvement; these are the people who, instead of immediately going to the forums to bitch and whine, actually have the drive to go out and grab what they want in the game.
Kool Pajamas
You know...you dont NEED to do the elite missions. Even when America has favor I rarely ever do FoW or UW. It's possible to live without it. Deal with it. I may never get into an elite mission either but I dont care. There are other things to do.
I'm sure once Chapter 3 comes out it will be extremely easy to get into Elite missions....
I'm sure once Chapter 3 comes out it will be extremely easy to get into Elite missions....
Eclair
Maybe they should make it so that elite missions become open to the public once a week or something for 24 hours, then its complete off limits again.
This way the top guilds can join the missions anytime they want and retain a huge advantage for controlling the top cities, but the public at least isn't totally cut off from it.
This way the top guilds can join the missions anytime they want and retain a huge advantage for controlling the top cities, but the public at least isn't totally cut off from it.