So, uh. (Elite Missions) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

AydenV2

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

[TCD]

Mo/Me

04 May 2006 at 11:30 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Maybe the reason you have no shot at gaining access to these elite, competitive PvE missions is that you're not competitive...not even having the drive to do something as simple as setting up a time to dump faction.

To all the people who are again using the silly logic that you're being denied access to "a part of the game that you paid for", that's just ridiculous. You bought a game that labels itself as a competitive roleplaying game, you paid for the ability to compete for the best stuff. Frankly, it's no mystery to me why the top alliances have decent to heavy PvP guild involvement; these are the people who, instead of immediately going to the forums to bitch and whine, actually have the drive to go out and grab what they want in the game.

/agreed 100%. You get what you pay for, if you dont want to take the time and effort that the high end guilds are using for these missions, why should you have access to them?

aron searle

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

04 May 2006 at 11:32 - 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

/agreed 100%. You get what you pay for, if you dont want to take the time and effort that the high end guilds are using for these missions, why should you have access to them?

2 Words

Casual Gamer

AydenV2

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

[TCD]

Mo/Me

04 May 2006 at 11:38 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

2 Words

Casual Gamer

Since when has PVP EVER, in ANY game catered to the casual gamer? PvE is casual enough and this elite missions are more of a bonus/side mission than anything. It doesn't take away from your storyline, it doesnt provide items you need for the main quest or any other quests, so why must casual gamers get the free ride to access it?

Vel Satis

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

No guild as yet

04 May 2006 at 11:40 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitsu Bishi

You are happy with max stat armor and weapons and normal missions -> buy Droks, collector's items and play the game without bothering about grind

You want to be shiny and access special content -> farm, grind and enjoy

You want to be shiny and access special content without grinding -> well, I'd like to be a millionaire, too without having to work for it but life isn't that fair to me unfortunately

How about 'You want to access content without grinding'? You are confusing content with items, there is a huge difference between a set of armour with a different look and an entire high level mission. I don't care about not getting FoW armour or any of the other rare stuff because I am happy with droks etc. and I don't get any less of a game than someone who spends hours just grinding. If I don't want to grind faction then I will get less of a game than someone who has hours to sit at their computer every day.

The point is supposed to be skill over time spent, right? How can they justify this when you don't get to play the entire game unless you grind for faction?

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

04 May 2006 at 11:57 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

Since when has PVP EVER, in ANY game catered to the casual gamer? PvE is casual enough and this elite missions are more of a bonus/side mission than anything. It doesn't take away from your storyline, it doesnt provide items you need for the main quest or any other quests, so why must casual gamers get the free ride to access it?

Why can't I just team up with my real-life buddies with whom I share a rather small guild and earn this access on the merit of our own skills?

Why are we forced to rely on people we've never met before? (People who frankly I don't have any desire to meet) People who are playing in different instances? Why should my options in the game be determined by events outside of my ability to participate in? That's not good game design by any stretch of the imagination. Every other aspect of the game prior to this factions/alliances nonsense was accessible by the core playing unit: a party. That's how this game should be. Anything beyond that is just so much rubbish.

AydenV2

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

[TCD]

Mo/Me

04 May 2006 at 12:01 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Why can't I just team up with my real-life buddies with whom I share a rather small guild and earn this access on the merit of our own skills?

Why are we forced to rely on people we've never met before? (People who frankly I don't have any desire to meet) People who are playing in different instances? Why should my options in the game be determined by events outside of my ability to participate in? That's not good game design by any stretch of the imagination. Every other aspect of the game prior to this factions/alliances nonsense was accessible by the core playing unit: a party. That's how this game should be. Anything beyond that is just so much rubbish.

They game is built around competition, the better man wins, because the better man deserves it.

Take basketball for example. You play a game with another team, whoever wins gets some cash you will use to buy a good time of some sort, whether it be movies or whatnot. They are far better than your team, and are whooping your rear. Do you expect them to give you a chance at the cash while they are still striving for the same goal?

It's all about the competition, if you can't compete then you are not worthy of the prize, plain and simple.

aron searle

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

04 May 2006 at 12:06 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

They game is built around competition, the better man wins, because the better man deserves it.

Take basketball for example. You play a game with another team, whoever wins gets some cash you will use to buy a good time of some sort, whether it be movies or whatnot. They are far better than your team, and are whooping your rear. Do you expect them to give you a chance at the cash while they are still striving for the same goal?

It's all about the competition, if you can't compete then you are not worthy of the prize, plain and simple.

A casual gamer can still be skilled.

I dont know why you are arguing that time played should = skill.

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

04 May 2006 at 12:12 - 88

It's just that acquiring Elite Missions is so conditional on such limiting factors. You either have to have a big guild with a lot of PvP focused players are you find an Alliance that has such players. It's not because your guild or its players don't have any skill.

AydenV2

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

[TCD]

Mo/Me

04 May 2006 at 12:13 - 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

A casual gamer can still be skilled.

I dont know why you are arguing that time played should = skill.

Time played does equal skill, in some sense. More time played means more experiences. More chances to see your build fail, more chances to build upon your build with the knowledge you got in the PVP field.

I agree with you, casuals can be skilled. Some people are born to game, and are good at it right off the bat.

When I mean time played, I also mean devotion. When you see someone play guild wars PVP for hours and hours, you know he is diehard devoted to this game. All of his heart and soul pour into this game. He is more devouted then casual gamers are. So, why should he have to work hard to get to the same goal you are, why do you expect to be placed at his level (regarding missions) without doing all the hard work that it took him to get there.

See what I mean? I don't mean to argue, its just the way I think, I am very critical at times.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

04 May 2006 at 12:17 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

They game is built around competition, the better man wins, because the better man deserves it.

Take basketball for example. You play a game with another team, whoever wins gets some cash you will use to buy a good time of some sort, whether it be movies or whatnot. They are far better than your team, and are whooping your rear. Do you expect them to give you a chance at the cash while they are still striving for the same goal?

It's all about the competition, if you can't compete then you are not worthy of the prize, plain and simple.

Why do you bother quoting me if you don't address any point I raise in my post?

What if, hypothetically speaking, my small guild can totally and utterly humiliate any team any of the big alliances can throw at us? I still won't be able to win access, because they have 99 other teams grinding away, racking up more points in an hour than we can hope to make in week.

It's not about skill, it's about numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

Time played does equal skill, in some sense. More time played means more experiences. More chances to see your build fail, more chances to build upon your build with the knowledge you got in the PVP field.

I agree with you, casuals can be skilled. Some people are born to game, and are good at it right off the bat.

When I mean time played, I also mean devotion. When you see someone play guild wars PVP for hours and hours, you know he is diehard devoted to this game. All of his heart and soul pour into this game. He is more devouted then casual gamers are. So, why should he have to work hard to get to the same goal you are, why do you expect to be placed at his level (regarding missions) without doing all the hard work that it took him to get there.

See what I mean? I don't mean to argue, its just the way I think, I am very critical at times.

You really don't get it do you? It's not about anyone's skill or hard work in particular. It's about how many people are working along with you. You can have the best frigging 8 man PvP squad, play for hours every day, you can win the GvG championship, and still not amount to anything in the alliance faction rating scheme.

It makes no sense whatsoever that our gaming experience is decided by other people who I might never even share an instance with.

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

04 May 2006 at 12:22 - 91

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

When I mean time played, I also mean devotion. When you see someone play guild wars PVP for hours and hours, you know he is diehard devoted to this game. All of his heart and soul pour into this game. He is more devouted then casual gamers are. So, why should he have to work hard to get to the same goal you are, why do you expect to be placed at his level (regarding missions) without doing all the hard work that it took him to get there.

So casual gamers get restricted access to certain things, because they have jobs, are in school, i.e. have to deal with real life and cannot afford to grind? That logic seems a little backwards, as a good percentage of Guild Wars players are casual gamers, who have jobs and a real life, and can afford to pay for the game, but just don't have as much time to play, compared to the hardcore players.

myword

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Korea

04 May 2006 at 12:27 - 92

your alliance gains control of towns by offering the most faction points i take it?

if not then ignore the rest of my post

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

/agreed 100%. You get what you pay for, if you dont want to take the time and effort that the high end guilds are using for these missions, why should you have access to them?

i'd be hesitant to call guilds that hold towns in the current system 'high end'
if your definition of 'high end' = large amount of active members to zerg for faction points then maybe, but that's not what the term means

perhaps instead of sweat shop gold farmers, there'll be sweat shop challenge mission faction farmers you can hire for your alliance. yes, there are challenge missions where you can let your henchmen do all the work while you sit there and still get 1.5k faction easily.

the current system granting entry to the 'elite missions' is not based on skill over time, it's time over skill, if you try to claim otherwise, you're confused or you haven't learned how to expoilt certain challenge missions.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

04 May 2006 at 12:29 - 93

I belive its stupid to only allow 2000 people out of ,what,1 million players, to have access to an area simply because they have people alliance battling around the clock.

Its basicly Numbers > Skill.

I mean, do you see any well known HoH/GvG guilds taking control of such cities?Of course not, they're guilds arent simply jam packed with players they simply picked up in RA.

Perhaps they should add the ability to challenge such guilds?I mean..after all, if they have enough people to have 1000000+ faction, they should have enough for a GvG correct?

gragman

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

[Oous]

A/

04 May 2006 at 12:45 - 94

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

Time played does equal skill, in some sense. More time played means more experiences. More chances to see your build fail, more chances to build upon your build with the knowledge you got in the PVP field.

I agree with you, casuals can be skilled. Some people are born to game, and are good at it right off the bat.

When I mean time played, I also mean devotion. When you see someone play guild wars PVP for hours and hours, you know he is diehard devoted to this game. All of his heart and soul pour into this game. He is more devouted then casual gamers are. So, why should he have to work hard to get to the same goal you are, why do you expect to be placed at his level (regarding missions) without doing all the hard work that it took him to get there.

See what I mean? I don't mean to argue, its just the way I think, I am very critical at times.

Excuse me if i'm wrong, but why are you arguing a case against people being allowed access to a PvE area using an argument based around playing in a PvP environment?

Time played != skill, time played == knowledge. Some people may know an awful lot about the game, its dynamics and interaction but STILL not be as good as others with less time played. Its a simple fact.

I personally am a dedicated player, had an account for a little over 4 months now, played 1100 hours (I think I'm married also

). I belive that I am as equally devoted as the PvP player you mention in your post, however the guild I am in, and which I enjoy being in and will not leave, is not large enough, or allied to a large enough alliance, to have the requisite amount of faction to gain control of an elite mission area. We would, however, have as good a chance of successfully completing an Elite Mission as any other team/guild/alliance.

My overall view? Somewhat unhappy with the way this is looking ATM, however not giving up hope entirely

Loralai

Purveyor of Useless Info

Join Date: Oct 2005

Perpetual Motion Squad [PMS]

Mo/

04 May 2006 at 12:56 - 95

Interesting that Anet makes an attempt to remove the "grind" for gold, weapons, and mods by implementing better drops, yet hands over yet another grind scenario via faction. All points made about this being "numbers over skill" are 100% correct, I don't see how anyone could dispute that. If you have an alliance of 5 guilds with 8 people in each, total of 40 people, they would not be on the same competitive level for "FACTION GRIND" as the alliance with 10 guilds of 100 people each, total 1000. Someone explain to me please, how that has anything whatsoever to do with skill? Repeating the same faction-grinding missions/challenges over and over has no merited standing in skill at all...........

torquemada

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

guildless

04 May 2006 at 12:57 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Someone please point out to me the part where Anet said they were going to introduce forced grind for access to content.

Finally, someone said it. This is not skill, this is HUGE enforced GRIND.

Faction=number_0f_ppl * hours_grinding

You bloody insert skill here... Grind is never about skill. It's about that time until your eyes bulge out or your mommy haules you to bed by yer friggin ears.

Should I just disband my guild for the sake of grinding?? Hell, I could be playing WoW right now (which I refuse) and get hell of a lot more content from grinding.

Honestly I didn't play WoW coz of people who play it maniacally 0-24....total hardcore with dobious skill involved. I appriciate skill, not some bullshit grind.

I won't lose my character, nor my guild, nor anything for fcking grind. Not ever.

If this is any indicator in which direction this game is turning....

/ragequit

EDIT. PS. Time may be skill-contributing, but grinding is definitely not. Your grind=subscription fee money (I wonder, I wonder)

Lucifer PVP

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Refuge From Exile [RFE] Refuge-From-Exile.com

W/Mo

04 May 2006 at 13:00 - 97

I played the elite mission on friday and saturday for the kuricks ... honestly it isn't anything special. According to the strat guide there are unique greens that drop but i didn't see any, but i do agree it should be open to everyone. The controlling alliance should be able to do it for free and everyone else should have to pay like 5k or something.

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

04 May 2006 at 13:05 - 98

It seems like the most common solution is a gold sink. We don't need another gold sink. If ANET is even considering fixing the way Elite Missions are accessed they shouldn't cop out with a gold sink.

Takeko Nakano

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Great Britain

W/P

04 May 2006 at 13:12 - 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

It seems like the most common solution is a gold sink. We don't need another gold sink. If ANET is even considering fixing the way Elite Missions are accessed they shouldn't cop out with a gold sink.

Indeed. A faction point sink would be a good idea, as it would stop people from spending it all on amber/jadeite. But a money sink like 5k would be extreme.

Here's another idea. Why not increase faction point decay according to the size of the alliance? Or have a proportional reduction in the amount an alliance benefits from faction gifts according to its size? Obviously it wouldn't be 1:1 (as that would remove the point in having alliances), but perhaps 1:2 or 1:3. That would still give an incentive to get in an alliance, but give smaller groupings more of a chance to gain control.

torquemada

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

guildless

04 May 2006 at 13:13 - 100

I really don't care about elite missions (if there's only 2 of em)...what I am afraid they're trying to do is turn this action-pumped game of skill into a zombie-grind on massive scale.

It's not really about 2 mission access, but the willingness of people to abandon anything for the sake of those and join a huge mass of strangers.

Lucifer PVP

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Refuge From Exile [RFE] Refuge-From-Exile.com

W/Mo

04 May 2006 at 13:25 - 101

Use the Challenge missions. People who have the high score for the day get access, for month get access and all time get access. Along with the holding alliance. Better then a gold sink?

pbspectre

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

Oral's Chosen

W/Mo

04 May 2006 at 13:33 - 102

/agree with the OP x1000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

Here's another idea. Why not increase faction point decay according to the size of the alliance? Or have a proportional reduction in the amount an alliance benefits from faction gifts according to its size? Obviously it wouldn't be 1:1 (as that would remove the point in having alliances), but perhaps 1:2 or 1:3. That would still give an incentive to get in an alliance, but give smaller groupings more of a chance to gain control.

nice idea in theory, but i fear it wouldn't have that much effect in the long term...all that would happen is the top alliances would figure out the exact number of ppl they can have to get the least decay and the most faction farming...once that number is calculated and attained, things will go back to being the way they are now...plus, this senario leaves the door open for the "50k for elite mission access" crap...

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

04 May 2006 at 13:36 - 103

I'm not angry solely because I can't get access. I'm angry thanks to the shitty system that is in place to PROVIDE access. I'm not going to go back and find the posts I wanted to quote, but I'll try to offer a rebuttal to some here.

"If you're not prepared to compete, why should you get to complain?"

Because I shouldn't HAVE to compete. I shouldn't have to grind my life away for faction just to be able to enter what Anet made out to be the be-all, end-all of PVE in this game. I'm complaining because this is an awful system--I shouldn't have to compete, this is PVE. The Favor system was dumb, this system is even worse.

"that dumb sports analogy"

Oh come the hell on. Get out.

"Go do something else. Don't care about the elite missions"

Yeah uh like what?

After you beat Shiro, there is nothing to do in PVE. Nothing.

wren e

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Xen of Onslaught

04 May 2006 at 13:43 - 104

There is a very simple answer to this solution to this problem. Granted that not everyone can acess an elite mission whenever they want, we knew that was going to happen. So what you do is have your guild join in an alliance with another guild, could be friends or people you respect. Then you guys can do the missions or alliance battles and save your faction points and have a turn in date for your alliance. Also remember, the elite missions are designed to be a reward to those that have grinded to get the faction points. Or if you that sounds like too much work to earn it yourself, try and join one of the large allainces and piggy back off of their hard work. I'm sure that people are doing this already.

Mitsu Bishi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Austria

Need for Seed [SeeD]

Mo/Me

04 May 2006 at 13:43 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

After you beat Shiro, there is nothing to do in PVE. Nothing.

And after you beat the elite mission, what's the difference? It's one more mission to do and then you have the same problem. It's not like this mission changes in any way every time you play it again.

shadowfell

hamonite anur ruk

Join Date: Jan 2006

Echovald Forest

[PhD] Teh Academy

Me/A

04 May 2006 at 13:57 - 106

Package it any way you like, this is all amounting to 100% elitism, exclusivity and exclusion, trying to see it any other way is a big stroke job to AN, and a bigger stroke job to the guilds/alliances whose asses you have to kiss to even THINK about seeing the inside of one of these missions.

Also, to whoever said, and I quote the vague point here, "well, you must be a sucky player anyhow, if you can't get into the elite missions"... That is complete, crap.

Nothing is more frustrating than getting through arborstone, with henchies alone, and quite successfully, to see you can't go any further than that because you have nothing to do with an alliance that controls point A. Gee.. If I managed to get through that mission with henchies, I must be a shitty player by your standards.. No wonder I don't deserve the next mission.

Please, give me a break. This system is broken and is frustrating, and I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Maybe some people don't want to have to pay 500k for a pair of nifty looking daggers. They shouldn't HAVE to. But just because some tail smoocher rides an alliances coat tails, they get the opportunity at these missions? Where is the skill in that...

What do I have to do to gain access to these missions if my guild leader, who is also my friend, is the one deciding what guilds we ally with and trust me, the faction ISN'T happening here. So now I have to ditch my guild mates and friends? Nice promo AN..Sick of this crap already and it has only been a week.. I'm not the only one either.

AN knew people would shit their pants and die twice when the rumours of this began to spread beforehand. They wouldn't fess up to it directly however, because, the pre order numbers to them were bank. I doubt they will do anything about it either, but oh well, chase away enough core players and see how high the pre orders for CH3 are.

pbspectre

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

Oral's Chosen

W/Mo

04 May 2006 at 14:04 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by wren e

There is a very simple answer to this solution to this problem. Granted that not everyone can acess an elite mission whenever they want, we knew that was going to happen. So what you do is have your guild join in an alliance with another guild, could be friends or people you respect. Then you guys can do the missions or alliance battles and save your faction points and have a turn in date for your alliance. Also remember, the elite missions are designed to be a reward to those that have grinded to get the faction points. Or if you that sounds like too much work to earn it yourself, try and join one of the large allainces and piggy back off of their hard work. I'm sure that people are doing this already.

ummm...did you read the posts of the ppl who hate the new system?...the whole point is, unless you're in a huge alliance, you have little or no chance to enter the elite missions...and, on top of that, even if most ppl knew enough other guilds with whom they would be willing to align, the numbers would not be anywhere near enough to compete with the huge alliancesand if they wanted to try to compete, it would take hours upon hours of faction farming to do so....

so, this system leaves me with the following impressions:

- time spent (aka grind) > skill
- numbers > comradery
- hardcore player > casual player

nohooiam

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Forsaken Sanctuary

Mo/Me

04 May 2006 at 14:19 - 108

how about just asking the alliance holding the town for access?

i dont think its such an unreasonable request.

SpeedyKQ

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Me

04 May 2006 at 14:20 - 109

I don't want to have to choose between disbanding my small RL friends guild and accessing elite missions. Doesn't mean I'm not competative. Doesn't mean I'm not skilled. Doesn't mean I'm not willing to work for things.

As I've mentioned before, any of these solutions would satisfy me:

Cap alliances at 1000 players instead of 10 guilds.

Give each elite mission a faction price that the controlling alliance doesn't have to pay.

Throw out the whole "access to content as a reward for mostly other people's work" idea, which is the dumbest thing about this otherwise brilliant game series.

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

04 May 2006 at 14:22 - 110

That thread smells so much like politics. I know Inde doesn't want it like that but hey, this is just so clear...
"Don't like to be poor? Then get a better job."
Goddamnit, like I'm not trying my ass off already to make a living for me and others!

Don't like to be refused access to an area you paid for with real money? Then become a part of the 0.01% elite. Which will lead to the challenge being harder and harder...

Minus Sign

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/N

04 May 2006 at 14:22 - 111

*cough* damn crow feathers *cough* I hate eating my own words; Damn you Anet!*cough*

I backed Anet on this issue. Strongly supported them. I mean, after the Favor fiasco that got so many people pissed at them, there was no way they'd make the same mistake twice. Right? No company wants to alienate their customer base; its just not good business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

what I am afraid they're trying to do is turn this action-pumped game of skill into a zombie-grind on massive scale.

QTF. Personal merit should be the deciding factor on the missions you can access in a competitive based game, not the size of your damn guild or the location of your home servers.

Anet...you're morons. So you know, its cost you 400 dollars so far. I've told several RL and online friends that had been considering buying both since it the franchise made it to sequal not to bother with Guild Wars. Sucks for both of us. I was going to invite them to my nice little guild and show them the ropes. Would have been fun, but I won't endorse them wasting their money on a game I know they won't enjoy.

I'ma do what I can to get my 50$ worth out of Factions and probably say Gbye to this company and its products. Too many headgames for the content they provide and I dislike rewarding vendors with my money when they don't learn from their mistakes. But I can't really blame them. Anet, you've fooled me twice. Shame on me. And the rule of nine says my own chain is not finished yet. When 10 people like something, 9 of them won't say anything positive. But when 10 people don't like something, 9 of them will tell their neighbors.

When the majority of your customer base is telling you "We don't like your game anymore" you can bet your ass they're saying it elsewhere.

I know, several of you will reply with the standard fare "Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you" but thats my view.

pbspectre

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

Oral's Chosen

W/Mo

04 May 2006 at 14:24 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohooiam

how about just asking the alliance holding the town for access?

i dont think its such an unreasonable request.

and what's to stop them from saying "Sure, we'll let you in...for 50k a person..."?

if ppl did that, it's extra $$ for the powerful alliances...if not, who cares?...they still control the mish either way...at least with the favor system, you couldn't pay someone to win HoH so you could get to UW/FoW...this system puts way too much power in the hands of a reletively small number of players who have no rules whatsoever governing how they use that power....

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

04 May 2006 at 14:31 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Someone please point out to me the part where Anet said they were going to introduce forced grind for access to content.

They've always said the opposite:

Guild Wars... it's not about how long you spend online, it's about skill.

At least that's what it was initially. What I want to know is how does grinding for faction to access content have anything to do with skill!!

It doesn't and I'm a fool for having taken ANet at their word on this and on other stuff like 6*100%.

Caveat Emptor!

Fitz Rinley

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Rusty Rose

W/Mo

04 May 2006 at 14:32 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Didn't enough people complain about that? Why would they make something worse?

It's like they only listened to the complaints about how PvP was affecting PvE, and thought they had a really great idea about how PvE players could get in on it, and didn't really think about how exclusive it still was, and how it shits all over smal guilds and casual players.

I thought the complaints about favor expressed not so much that people had a problem with PvP controlling PvE, but that people *just don't like* exclusionary systems like this.

PvE players asked for an alternative access to PvE content that is currently controlled by a minority (and they will always be a minority) of professional level HoH players.

Now, ANet has come up with a way to be prejudicial in even greater levels against all casual, non-peak, and non-PvP players. The point appears to be, ''We will cajole, coerce, or force by any method we can create all players to deny their individual creativity and conform to PvP standards of submission to elitest arogant bragadocios. This includes creating elitest arogant boastful guilds which will deny the non-submitters access to the game they paid us for.

Fitz Rinley

QoH

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Divine Beings

R/

04 May 2006 at 14:34 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbspectre

and what's to stop them from saying "Sure, we'll let you in...for 50k a person..."?

Well lets say they do not charge money, but honestly will they ever choose a foreign player instead of their guildmates to do the mission? I am sure not.

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

04 May 2006 at 14:38 - 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

Wow, you guys are awesome.

Gli -- So you think that guilds like iGi, Char, Te and iQ are all real life friends before they started? Have you seen any guild in the top 20 that are all -friends in real life- before making their guild?

Are you really that blindsinded? Do you try to get a job at ANet or what?
I play the game with a bunch of friends met in-game, cool, laidback people and we still do good. We're like 7 really motivated by both PvE and PvP... We can do some tricky stuff in PvE just fine and we have our fair share of winning in PvP. But that's it. Between 15 and 20 members in the guild... How are we supposed to compete for access to those missions?

I'll tell you one thing, GvG requires 8 people and that's it. It's achievable to build such a team and practice. There we're talking massive groups of guildies/allianced. For grinding. It's different from individual practice and small-group organisation.

People are complaining because they have a problem. Obviously you don't. Why do you even bother to be in that thread? You're doing just fine, right? You're not part of the problem for us, so what's the big deal in you posting so much? You don't even discuss, you're sitting there spitting "get competitive, get competitive". Man, how many times do we have to tell you we like the game because in some ways it's merit over grind?

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

04 May 2006 at 14:38 - 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

"Go do something else. Don't care about the elite missions"

Yeah uh like what?

After you beat Shiro, there is nothing to do in PVE. Nothing.

Holy crap Kakumei! You hit the nail on the head. I read this and it was like getting hit by lightning. ANet doesn't want you to do any PvE (or very little) after you finish the story line.

All they want you to do is PvP grind for faction. PvE is a reward for PvP. I should have seen this with FoW/UW and favor.

Proof:
1. Gates... no more running for plats.
2. Lame FedEx quests... who wants to do these over.
3. PvE tied to PvP. Elite missions are not accessible unless you get faction. The fastest way to get it is to PvP.
4. Farming/economy nerf. Higher drop rates of golds mean there's less incentive to take a PvE approach to this game. There are still farmable mobs, but nothing on the scale of Prophecies.

Lex Talionis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

in the real world away from virtual idiots

Wtf Is Guildwars [Duno]

04 May 2006 at 14:39 - 118

I agree that this system is crap. After ppl beat the game, (which doesn't take long imo) they shouldn't have to grind endlessly for faction to donate to their alliance so they could get access to these "elite missions". What if instead of all this owning territory bs, we can just donate the faction towards entering these areas? Now wouldnt that be more fun??

A bit off topic, what i really want to know is why in the hell we can't team up with our alliance members for the 12 v 12 alliance battles?? I mean wth is the point of having 10 guilds allied if we can't even team up for an alliance battle. No, seriously someone answer this as i'm baffled. I'm sick + gdamn tired of being in an alliance battle with 8 other ppl (there is 12 in a team + 4 of those members are guildies) who i don't even know + have no control over wth they do making us lose.

This wasn't fully planned out. Or maybe i'm insane

I'm also pretty sure noone from Anet will address any of these concerns. Either way guess i'll go do some skill capping to kill my boredom.

baz777

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

South East England

Leader: Lady Hairy Armpits S[mell]

E/

04 May 2006 at 14:47 - 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

Still doesn't change the fact that the system is unfair to 99% of the players.

Those 99% who contribute 99% of the turnover/profits yet are excluded.

Good business practice that!

Fitz Rinley

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Rusty Rose

W/Mo

04 May 2006 at 14:52 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

Wow, you guys are awesome.

Gli -- So you think that guilds like iGi, Char, Te and iQ are all real life friends before they started? Have you seen any guild in the top 20 that are all -friends in real life- before making their guild?

It is no crime to become friends while playing in virtual reality. It is a crime to set a system of grind that requires one to abandon one's real life friends and family for attainment. The game for the casual player is eliminated completely. It is equally immoral to establish elitest non-casual player control over access to the full content of the game they paid to play.

ANet has taken the flexibility out of th egame and is creating a rigid caste sytem that will exclude many players. Especially given that more adults play this kind of game than children, some fair percentage being those in between. I was there when Pong made the national news. I have over 30 years of my life having access to video games from the very first Atari, Asteroids, Pacman, wargames by SSI, Eastern Front, Donkey Kong, Bard's Tales, The Legend of Zelda, Sim City, Ultima, Gauntlet, Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone (early 90s), Myst, Tekken, Battlemech, etc. up thru Spyro, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter's Night, Sacred, KotOR, and even Guild Wars. I have RPG experience from Enguarde, Harn, Castle Faulkenstien, White Wolf, Dugneons and Dragons, Traveller (Original up), etc. ANet has taken a stand that principly children play these games. That stand is not correct. Children also play these games, but parents are more likely to buy (and get into) things they also remember as enjoyable.

Gamers today are more sophisticated than a bunch of 8-10 year olds getting access to their first big computer with 2 whole k of memory in their Atari or TRS 80. Nor are we only pre-tweenies looking to bash someone to pieces to relieve hormonal stress, feel powerful, or boast. We are also real life people who want to play what we expected when we shelled out our limited dollars without being controlled or excluded by elites. Real adults get enough of that at work or in college, and are mature enough to run their own lives at home. We don't want it, we dont need it, and we have done noting to be punished for in wanting to be and play for ourself expression with our friends and family.

Fitz