GW's future....

I'm going to preface this post by stating this is all opinion. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but I feel it needs to be said.

All of you know that ANet's business model for GW has been "no subscription fees", substituting semi-annual releases of new "chapters" to generate a revenue stream.

The problem inherent with this business model is that as a development company, they must provide enough adequate content for the consumers to justify the cost, especially when ANet has decided to price the chapters as A List titles ($49.95US retail).

If ANet wants to release a top priced "chapter" every six months - they will need to make sure their customers are getting their money's worth.

Seriously, does Factions measure up? If Factions is skating on thin ice content wise, do you think that future chapters will be worse?

Take a look at Factions as it stands right now. What did we get?

Two new professions (chapter one had 6)
New continent (chapter one was at least twice as big with 2x the missions)
New skills (I'll get to this in a minute)
New armor, artwork, etc (money sinks basically)
New content for PvP (guild halls, etc) but those items are available to chapter one owners as well, it's nothing more than a patch upgrade of features.
New concepts of Alliances and Faction which I'll also get to in more depth later.

I'll leave the new professions alone, that's very subjective, some people like them (I don't) but that's not really the issue, except for one consideration...we're not going to get two new professions with every chapter, they were scraping the bottom of the barrel with the two they introduced now.

The core problem with GW (As I've stated before in other threads) is the combination of balance, level restrictions, and restricted base design. At some point, ANet simply will run out of different ways of combining conditions, damage, energy cost, duration, speed, hex, curse, whatever. There are just so many ways you can deal out the same amount of damage before it becomes just the same thing, different name. We've already reached that point - why does the Ranger have two skills (Penetrating Attack and Sundering Attack) that do exactly the same thing, cost exactly the same energy, the only difference is the artwork of the skill? How many different ways can you set someone on fire as an elementalist? How many different 5 energy healing skills do you really need?

The game itself has a very limited set of conditions, for example. Dazed, Weakness, Blind, Poisoned, Crippled and Bleeding. Because of balance, any new skill introduced must fit within the framework of GW's current design simply because old players that don't buy the new chapters still need to be balanced with new ones.

The same goes for weapons. A Max damage bow is a max damage bow, from chapter one to chapter one hundred. There are a very limited # of mods (Sundering, Zealous, etc), and we've basically already seen just about every combination in all of the different green items. Even, in some cases, we haven't, at some point we will. It's just simple logic. ANet again can't change this due to balance between chapters.

The customer base isn't helping either. They go absolutely apeshit over idiotic toys, spending 100s of platinum for vanity items, when items that actually HELP you play the game better are worth almost nothing, with very few exceptions. The game is barbie fashion designer.

Then there is the alliance/factions idea. As predicted, 99% of the guilds will be locked out of certain content simply because they are not members of a particular alliance or guild. This will never change. The rich get richer.

Already it costs over 1.7 MILLION Faction to "own" a town (House Zu Helter), and the game has been out a week.

What I continually see is ANet consistently underestimating their customers ability to find a way to screw over their fellow players, or find exploits, or devise ways using certain skills/items/runes/armors to have an advantage over others. Factions is no different.

And the PvP content - I'm not impressed at all. We've got a 12v12 that really isn't all that fun, and to make things worse, players dropping left and right when the going gets rough. It can take 10-15 minutes to even enter the mission, as the countdown timer just sits there and recycles over and over - all to gain what, 500 faction on average? Fort Aspenwood is even worse - random 8v8? RA was bad enough in Chapter 1, hey, here's an idea, let's make it 100% more lame by doubling the team size. Apparently everyone feels the same way because Ft Aspenwood is a ghost town. The HA folks got zilch for new maps or game types. Guilds got 4 new maps, which are beautiful (well, two of them are) but again, it's a free patch upgrade, you don't need to buy factions to get it.

As far as the new PvE content - I finished it in 3 days, using mostly PUGs and Henchies, with occasional guild help. The fact we have to go BUY most of the skills is stupid. Yet another money sink. Since there aren't really any missions to gain new skills, the quests themselves are almost exclusively fedex quests to gain exp and skill points. I hate to break it to ANet, but my Ranger already has unlocked all of the Ranger skills and I have over 50 skill points just sitting there. I don't NEED skill points. I don't need experience points.

And ANet learned their lesson with runners. Still think after encountering all of the locked gates in Factions that ANet loved the booming running economy that ruined Chapter 1? I don't care what they "said" - the proof is in the pudding, isn't it? Good thing too, if they allowed people to actually run in this game they would be even more dissapointed with how small the actual continent is.

So, when chapter 3 comes out in October or November, just what is ANet going to include in it to justify 50 bucks more? We already paid that for 1/2 the content of chapter one. As time goes on, there just won't be anything more they can add that is just rehashing the same old junk with new skins. We've already seen this with Factions, and I predict it will just get worse as time goes on.

Can't say I really disagree with you, but we'll just have to see. Anything else is random speculation. Let's hope they learn from the ch2 feedback and make ch3 more worthwhile.

eudas

Now with Faction I can understand why they will release each new chapter every 6 months. It is because each chapter is designed to entertain you for a short time only, not like the original GW we love. We played chapter 1 for the whole 1 year without boring because there are so many things to enjoy after finish the game (UW/FOW, SF, Tomb). It may not be like that anymore.

I just want to add few things to this. A-Net claimed that Guild Wars is all about skills not items. But look at whats happening recently, the mini pets, 15k armors, gold weapons, and other vanity items. Why do they add these kind of things within the game. Its simple, to keep peoples happy and entertained. Do they serve any purpose.... no! I'm telling you now, even with low damage weapons, with the right skills combo, you can take down someone who brought those "l337" golds or greens max damage and mods weapons. There isn't any skills that is needed in factions that you couldn't get in original Guild Wars.

Mimi, tell me if i'm wrong but i saw tons of skills that is just different icon but does the same exact damamge (even has the same recharge rate) as the one in Guild Wars. As for 1k per skills, i think it a waste of money. I really spend golds for anything on skills unless i want to cap a elite or get something that seem useful. If you calculate this, 150 skills times 1k, you would be spending 150k and more to get all the skills in factions. I don't know how long Factions was in development but i think it was rush out the door to get our unwanted attention. I mean, peoples were bored of original guild wars and with the recent beta event, it basically refresh our thirst for going back to the world of Guild Wars. What about the AI, i swear its worst now a day than ever before. In the latest AI setup, the henchies actually stop and res you while the battles is going on. I have died many time (as an assassin) because of henchies (especially the monk) trying to res and not keeping the group alive.

I'm not glad that i've brought factions but than again, you get what you pay for with $50 dollars (for those who getting CE, they'll get more benefit)

Mimi, may i ask, what do you think of the CE delay and the way A-Net response to it? It seem to me, to be almost too good to be true to be given a elite pet just for buying or waiting for CE.

It will be difficult to come up with something new without imbalancing the older professions.

I think (or rather hope) that the new GW expansion will add new concepts that can add substantial content to warrant another purchase.

Like you said, you can only add so much stuff, since its all essentially going to be the same thing because the base model is very restricted.

But this is where we should see real creativity. Restrictions sometimes forces people to become MORE ingenious.

The way the CEs are selling out, I think GW future is assured.

There are problems with Factions, yes, but I have faith the biggest problems will be solved.

Then again, I bought the reg ed, and am now considering buying the CE as well, so I might not be the typical consumer.

/signed all of the above

What's the big deal with these little things? Considering the number of CE sold, the market will be flooded and such a miniature will not be worth that much in In-Game gold. We're talking 20 dollars more for a CE, right?

Anyway, for the future of GW, if the next chapter is 50 dollars and comparable to Factions, it will be last on my priority as its additional content to GW does not compare with the competition of some games that will be coming out. So what am I expecting? GW making great skills in Ch.3 so PvP will be impossible without it.
With no possibility of playing PvP against Ch1 players (and 2 optionally) only.

I SO feel it coming...

I'd be happy if they released new areas every six months that plug into the existing world (preferably Tyria). There are plenty of stories they could write about people we've already met in Prophecies (and now Factions). I'd pay for new content with interesting quests and missions. I don't need new skills, new professions, etc. Just give me more to do with my existing characters or the incentive to create new ones. I agree that there's only so much they can do with the skill system, and many skills are getting repetitive.

imagine if all the content is loaded on the DVD (not saying the next chapter will do that) but would it benefit if A-Net has the time to develop these ideas and concept than do testing to see how it work out before letting us consumers buy the products? The way they have done it now is to do beta event for the whole community and those that got the game. If my memory is correct, i thought the original GW has a beta team testing out everything within the game.

Your view of missions and content in general is limited, the amount fo quests and explorable areas is about the same to that of Prophecies. Only real difference is that its grouped together and the map looks smaller, that seems to be everyones problem "Omg the map is teh smaller! Must be less!" The amount of quests, which are actually interesting if you sit down and read them, is daunting and definately dwarfs what was in Prophecies. The amount of things out in the world for you to find is also alot larger. Factions is more condensed but the content is equal if not more, and I dare say you have yet to even look at the entire world, once you have then please make such an analysis.

Also the number of missions is also higher, challenge missions are usually alot of fun to do with friends and their replayability is high (compared to old prophecies missions). Of course this is all my opinion.

/not signed

Im loving Factions so far, for the most part. Its only been out a week people! Give it some fricking time.

I think i want:

$30 expansion ONLY (not standalone): No new slots or professions, but a new explorable area, missions, a race to save.

now this I will sign. Just give me new places to explore.

True by the time they gotten the bugs fixed, wouldn't you know another new chapter is coming!

After seeing chapter 2, they are going to have a hard time selling me any more chapters. Just my opinion at this point in time. I wasn't all that impressed with chapter 2 before I bought it, and am even less impressed with it now. I'm sure I'll get close to my money's worth out of it ..... but

I do read them, and I agree that there are a lot of quests, but I prefer quality, not quantity. And I'm playing a game--a quest has to be interesting when I'm DOING it. Making the text interesting isn't good enough. The problem is that they're all the same, or at least they are so far. I've only progressed up to the point where you have to choose a faction. The city quests are particularly bad. Get a quest from someone in zone A, they send you to zone B, then to see someone in zone C, oh, now back to zone B, and then back to zone C again for your reward. It's crazy. I know that all the quests in GW are essentially like this, but they managed to disguise it better in Prophecies.

Agreed.
Someone said it before... GWF actually stands for Guild Wars: FedEx.

This is incorrect.

As I said - I finished Factions in three days. The number of missions required to do so is less than half of Chapter 1. The vast majority of the "quests" are nothing more than move this to there, and come back, go to point a, b, c. One quest had you going around kneeling in fields helter skelter for crying out loud. You didn't fight anything. The pattern was stupid, it wasn't linear, it was all over the place. And after all of that, you got experience for it. That is an improvement? As I said, you spend the majority of the time doing fedex quests to gain exp and skill points you don't need.

And as far as your challenge mission comment, think you'll feel that way a month from now?

With Chapter one, at least we gained the benefit of the year long wait by getting added content that actually made the game better - SF and Tombs being the prime examples. Those areas at least provided a repeatable quest, with tangible rewards. Where does our SF exist in Factions? It doesn't.

I really don't get the idea of implementing greens this early in faction's life cycle. I mean, people going to spend time to farm those greens instead of going in a team to do missions or quests. As for future big update for factions... (except the holiday events) we probably won't get any. Since there is no point of adding something like Sorrow Furnace within factions when there is greens everywhere.

Whining whining whining. That's all I ever see here.

But it's to be expected. Every new game has whiners

First, yes, you're correct. I used the ranger skill(s) as simply one example. There are plenty more. Even when the skills are different, the changes are so slight it's moot. Like I said, there are only so many ways you can set someone on fire before it's just rehashing the same old crap.

As far as the CE delay, it's a crime, but not of ANet's doing, from what I can tell. I was all set to buy the CE version as soon as it hit the store shelves - I had it on pre-order. As soon as it was discovered that it was going to be delayed, I cancelled my preorder and switched it to the standard edition. And no, I will not be buying the CE. I feel slightly gypped paying 50 dollars for Factions, I'm not going to spend 80 to get a new dance for professions I don't like.

But the worst part is that while it's nice that ANet is "rewarding" the customers who wait by guving them a new "pet" all they are doing is basically giving those players (my guess) 500K in gold for waiting, as they will essentially sell them as soon as they get them just because a few folks with more money than brains will just have to collect them like pokemon cards.

Factions will go down in gaming history as Guild Wars Pokemon.

/not signed

There are plenty of options and choices that haven't been made or done yet. I just don't feel like tearing the Op's post apart right now.

Get over it. so according to you, every game that has an economy is pokemon?

Pathetic.

without having to pay full price

Thanks for the non constructive input, Tom Brokaw. Trolling a hobby for you?

If you'd like to dispute anything I wrote, please provide your well thought out arguments countering my points. Otherwise, quit whining yourself.

If Anet want to add new contents to Faction (like new UW/FOW, SF or Tomb), they are better do it fast because chapter 3 is coming soon. Humm, may be they will push those "new contents" (they exist?) to chapter 3 for better sale.

/signed but...

We are talking about the future of GW, how many will buy capter 3? Based on the mess with CE I am definitely not getting a chapter 3 CE. With the henchie stupididty getting worse I know a lot of players that have stopped playing Factions and are going back to propecies to finish off their characters there.

The only thing I can see that will ensure the long term survival is adding some major changes, for chapter 3:

1. Old Ascalon has to go, fix the place up.
2. White Manttle and Mursaat, we killed them already time to move on.
3. Stop wasting my time with the same skill just re-worded.
4. Hold off on the nerf bat, think these out a bit more.
5. Different types of armor (not just different looking), I have not changed any of my armor, why, it's the same thing.
6. Fix the runes merchant, I understand the player based economy and support it, but the new classes are still gimped until runes show, "prime the pump"
7. Last but not least, spend more time on the story I have played many RPGs over and over again, because I liked the story. Thats what I liked about Prophecies, The fact that my character will eventually win, and end it (see point 1 and 2)

<sigh>....when the OP tossed out the concept of "business model", I got all excited that someone with an economics background might throw out some ideas and opinions on how ANet is making this thing work. Instead, it's really just a post complaining about Factions

Seriously, let's compare the amount of money I spent buying Factions ($49.99) to the amount of money I'd have to spend playing World of Warcraft. Honestly, I know nothing about WoW, I don't know how often they update or how often they add new content. I do know that if I decided to buy WoW for $49.99, I'd also be paying a monthly of $14.99 just to be able to play the game.

So assuming that the Chaper One Guild Wars is my initial investment, what I'm really looking at is $49.99 every six months to keep playing the game. WoW will give me a deal of $77.94 for six months. Hmmm.....for a price comparison it seems like an OK deal. Of course with GW, I know I'll be getting some new content in every six months also (maybe WoW does this too, I don't know). Of course if I choose never to buy any more GW products, I can still log on an play with my original investment of Chapter One. If I stop paying my monthly fee for WoW, is my original investment in the software still usable?

Over six years ago, I thought Wizard of the Coast had a "flawed business model" for Magic the Gathering, because they were releasing expansions at such a fast rate. Added on to this was the fact that I thought most of these expansions were "flawed" in comparison to the orginal sets, as they had elements that either broke the meta-game or were repeatative. I stopped buying MtG and moved on to other things and predicted MtG would die a slow death. Yet, to my surprise it's still thriving today and WotC is still making money on it.

I see alot of similarities between GW and MtG right now. MtG knew it had to to continue to add new players if it was continue to survive, thus some content decisions were made in an effort to make the game more appealing to new players, even though some of those decisions alieninated the existing player base. While keeping your customer happy is an important part of business, the fact is people will eventually move on to try other things. This is especially true of gaming.

Make no mistake, I am concerned with the direction the GW is taking. Continued expansions with repeatative content, or limited new content are not very appealing to me. But there are all ready a dozen or some threads detailing the perceived flaws in Factions. I was hoping a thread titled "GW's future" would be something else

This is exactly what i wanted for Chapter 3 before i even buy the game. What about runes trade? where is the rune for assassin class, ritualist?

You finished the game in 3 days O_O.... geebus.... I'm not even done the starting quests at the Market Place... I agree with your first points though, how there are only so many combinations...

I don't think thoug that henches have gotten dumber... if anything they are better. When 3 of our members died, and the battle was reliant on the henchies doing there job... well I doubted them... but they focused their attack on the healer... and then took out the rest of the assassins and such(that quest in the marketplace where u have to get to soem guy far far away :P)

~prime

/signed


I agree, as it stand now, I will NOT be buying any future Chapters.
I'm more weary of Anet, they lost some credibility with me already.
If nothing drastically changes in the next few weeks....then GW is shelf permanently. I got my money worth in GWP, but Faction was $50 down the drain.

Waiting for the dreaded farmers to find them.

I didn't need to rehash the cost differential between GW and WoW. That is not the point of my thread. I am comparing Chapter 1, chapter 2, and future installments, and how I forsee lack of sustainability because of the design limitations within GW itself. Of which you already noted and agreed with essentially.

Soooo...thanks for your input?

i can't find any runes for them except Superior or Major one. With the low amount of health on my assassin, adding sup or major runes will make me die alot faster.

How can you call my opinion incorrect? No one forced you to rush through the game in one day, I personally did get through it in one day but that was for my guild's behalf and not my own, and I still say the content per mission and zone is equal to that of Prophecies. I don't compare by numbers, which you seem to do, I compare by the feel I get for each and everything.

What exactly do you want quests to be? Everything that Prophecies had Factions has including some new things, I personally found helping those farmers a nice new twist... though I don't take the game as seriously apperantly. In a month from now if those challenge missions get boring by then, I will have spent a good 100+ hours doing them... you know thats well worth it so your point fails horribly, kthx.

You also state it as if SF and Tombs were there from the start, they weren't. Bringing them up is showing you are spoiled and nothing more; its all I WANT I WANT I I I I I.

There will always be content "burners" in any game. They go through new content like Lindsay Lohan goes through laxatives. 3 days and you're finished!? LOL

My friends and I still aren't even off the starter island. I'm the only one in my little group that even has the first mission finished. For every content burner there are 100 players like me.

For most of us, Factions is just what we wanted. Some fun. No game lasts forever. Will GW be what I'm still playing in 2010? I hope to God not.

I think there is far, far, more good than bad in Factions.

Game design isn't easy, and the more I play the more I am amazed by how well balanced and diverse the 8 professions are. I didn't think they could possibly come up with 2 new professions that weren't somehow copies of existing ones, but they did. The environments (except for the city) are amazing, the gameplay is challenging but not impossible. The storyline is more engaging and easier to follow than Prophecies.

I wish Factions were a little bigger, and I wish I could access elite missions based on my own skills instead of uber-group-grind, but I have to say overall they did a great job.

I agree with this, I'm pretty much an all-PvE player. But they'll have to really work on it, as their system isn't the greatest, though I did appreciate the extra bit of effort they seemed to put into the RP elements of Factions.

I was disturbed by that quote someone posted in the now-closed elite mission thread, where one of the designers basically said, "we were surprised by how many people wanted to keep their PvE characters, so we're trying to nudge people towards PvP in the next chapter." (????)

Its true, no game last forever, but after seeing Faction, I'm going to predict that Chapter 3 will be a failure, and no more chapters after that. Anet's initial release of GWP is now basically just a one hit wonder. As I look through this forum and other forums, there are too many unhappy people. I use to be a GW fanbois, but after seeing Faction, I'm so disgusted with Anet for releasing garbage like this.