The root of all evil (true reason for Factions hate)

I haven't beaten factions yet or got to far in to it but it sure is different than the beta version which in the end prophecies wasn't.I wil have to say this and that is that factions is really not to much for the PvE player as there is next to no solo farming and no running unlike prophecies in otherwords where is the fun.Yes factions is more of a PvP style game.

You must be kidding about the monk henchmen. Most conditions and hexes are gone the moment they land. The previous henchmen couldnt even deal with either of those. Alesia had and still has a nasty habit to run right into the middle of fights or spritz enemies with her wand more than she heals. Sure, people have beef about when and how npcs rez, but thats about the only valid complaint they could possibly have when comparing the monks. Even then, the old ones didnt always res at good times.

If anything the only thing they should complain about is the ritualist henchmen. They drop spirits at very bad times and locations or at times not at all especially if there is more than one spirit henchie. Typically they end up being the first ones dead, even before assassin henchies.

Because I rarely PvP, Factions would probably suck for me. I just plain out love PvE in Prophecies. PvP is ok, but I don't get the same rush as I do in PvE. After reading about how Factions makes the game seem longer by PvP, I have a feeling that I would absolutely hate it.

My one complaint with Factions is that it takes absolutely forever to get anything constructive done.

Case in point is the new "special" armor. 15K armor always required lots of materials and money. But it was within reach. FoW armor required grind, but atleast the areas were fun to go into.

But Kurzick and Luxon armor require hours of grind, in areas that either force you to do PVP, or are repeatable quests that just drive you nuts doing over and over. Yesterday, from about noon to 11 pm, I did the Duel of the Houses quest. I got just about 13 Amber in that ammount of time. For those keeping track that means I earned 1K faction every 1.19 hours. Hell, I know people who farm 3 ectos in that ammount of time.

Faction Rewards are incredibly difficult to get and just increase the grind on PVE players. Unless you wanna be forced into PVP...but since 12vs12 isnt fun anymore, who does?

Another point is the mob size. Apparently Anet decided that instead of making the game harder, they'd just cram more enemies into every area and make them impossible to get through without DP.

Well, you don't have to do the PvP part of it. Alot of it is still PvP. If you like do PvE(doing all the primary quests and missions) then i don't think you'll have a problem with this game because it forces you to do all the missions and primary quests anyway.

Brother Gilburt

Actually you do have to basically. For the Luxons you won't even get enough factions from quests rewards (ie: non repeatable quests) to befriend the luxons and carry on with the campaign, that leaves you with the channel mission (aka mad impossible) or Fort Asphenwood. Alternatively you have to grind the running quest.

Either way it all smells of poorly thought out design and implementation.

Biggest crock of steaming dung I’ve ever read. Didn’t go much beyond the original post, but that original post was so disgusting I couldn’t stand it.

So. If you don’t play GvG, you don’t play Guild Wars? If a game isn’t centered on GvG, which is actually more exclusively and unforgiving than even Hero’s Ascent and serves an even smaller player base, it doesn’t deserve to be a Guild Wars game?

Did you know that’s effectively saying that Factions should not have been produced?

Your argument is basically stating that what you wanted Factions to be an Asian Prophecies. You were told, well before release, that most of Cantha was for lvl20, fully-developed characters. What, exactly, did that mean to you?! Did you think that Cantha would be ten times the size of Tyria to encompass the same mind-numbing, bloody pointless grind to 20 that is Prophecies? Yes, tyria is pretty. It’s also [b]empty[/i]. Eighty percent of it is wasted space. And your argument that Canthan pre-sear ends at Seitung? Let’s try another argument in the same vein, shall we?

Tyrian Pre-Sear doesn’t end until you hit the Southern Shiverpeaks. Or, some would say, Ember Light Camp. Want to know why? Because it’s only when you hit the Southern Shiverpeaks that you can attain end-game armor and the Elite skills that might make you eligible for content beyond hold-your-hand-to-20 quests and missions. You can’t even unlock much more than half the normal skills available to you until you hit Ember Light!

As far as I’m concerned, anyone who is a Tyrian Grand Master Cartographer, as you are, has no voice in determining the worth of Factions. Your joy comes from exploring, and apparently exploring alone. And maybe when you’re done exploring, grinding the UAS account, r9 emote, and FoW armor needed to convince a decent PvP Guild that you may be worth a one-day trial. Cantha is more easily explored than Tyria, thus it is an inferior game? That’s bull.

But not even half as big a pile of it as saying that Factions should not have been produced because it doesn’t focus on GvG. Ahem: BULL-CRACKING-SHITE. Alliance Battles and their rewards are new; of course people are going to focus on them for a while! Give it a few more months and GvG will be the focus again and we all damn well know it, especially since Alliance battles are no longer anything approaching fun.

You want an Asian Prophecies? Too bad. You got Factions. And for guys like me, who do not equate a quest worth 250 experience, nine useless weapons that sell for maybe twenty gold apiece, and the occasional almost-useful skill into a thrill, Factions is awesome. In Factions, you can fight at your full, true power, and it is that power which is challenged. You are a hero, and Cantha will push you to your true limits. Prophecies, Tyria, and the Flameseeker Prophecies is nothing more than a terminal case of, not ascending strength, but diminishing weakness. You aren’t growing stronger as you play the Tyrian campaign, you’re becoming less useless. When it takes three-quarters of the game to get you to within shouting distance of useful in anything but level grind, there’s something wrong.

Cantha puts it all on the table and forces you to acquire skill to progress. Canthan missions are five times harder than Tyrian missions and thank God for that. In Tyria, even in Hell’s Precipice, all it takes is three marginally-skilled players and the least little bit of pre-mission planning to succeed. One Winter-using Ranger, one elemental damage-dealer, and one Monk, and the rest are semi-helpful meatshields. Hell, I played through that mission with an Icy bow and did the work of half the damned PuG! And we won!

In Cantha, that’s no longer possible. Shorter game? Yes. More intense game? God yes. And as far as I’m concerned, intense beats length any day of the week.

You said everything I wanted to say, better than I could.

You had a compelling post until you invalidated it with that comment. Canthan missions are hard? In which freaking reality?

I finished the main storyline missions with my Barrage ranger the day after release. Within three days I had one of every set of 15k armor for which I earned every stinking piece of jade and amber by playing the challenge missions until my brain bled from the tedium. By the end of the week of release I had completed every available non-repeatable quest.

And I have nowhere near the skill at this game that some others I know do. When I made it to the Sanctum the first time, I met someone who was there with his second character.

Factions PvE is mind numbingly easy. Kuunavang is a pushover. Shiro is a bad joke. Factions is, in sum, a total disappointment to me, for I had hoped that PvE would become interesting again.

when i bought factions i was sure im buying someting like "prophecies 2"

but its actually A DIFFRENT GAME!!!

and maby Anet thought that buy saying factions is as long as prophecies when they calculated all the back and forth runing... anyways i see it as pure false advertising!

and the story line seemes to be thrown together very fast, kinda like a last minute thing

97.45% of figures ae made up on the spot.

Pretty much the same with the rest of your bull-cracking-shite post. So how did you derive this figure? 5 times as hard? Please.. nothing in Cantha comes *remotely* close to missions like Thunderhead. Even the final missions? Well they sure gave you a godly skill to help didn't they? Let's just say those skills are too godly

If you consider the Fedex quests in Cantha to be challenging then I pity you, for you are indeed mentally challenged. I for one find them mind numbingly boring. Seriously.

You must be playing a different game from everyone else, Cantha missions are so easy it's laughable. Please stop talking bollocks.

So if we like exploring we arnt allowed to speak? Some of us like wide open spaces, and its not necessarily true that mostly level 20 content means a smaller area. Cantha isnt that much of a challenge... really, its more annoying than challenging.

a lot of the prophesies content which is allready done by those who came from prophecies is also available to faction characters. but because people from prophecies have done it allready, they forget to count it.

this includes UW and FoW to name some
also, factions characters get the chance to do alliance battles, something i do not believe is possible on a prophecies only account.

also, you can't compare the 2 games just by numbers, sure the map is smaller, but the quests in the sifferent area make up for it, instead of 2-3 quests for an area you will get sometimes get 7 quests or more in a single area

and finally, you say "complete the game" and compare how long it takes, in prophecies, wasn't all about getting through the game as fast as humanly possible, you did things along the way, didn't just use your standard skillset, you experimented, tróed different things, did quests for fun. the people who have "completed" the game now have just done the last mission. there is so much more to do than that. wish people saw it, why would you buy a game if not for the fun?

THK is not hard, the only thing that increases its difficulty is the stupidity of people who don't know what to do. Same applies to the Factions Campaign, its all a team game after all. I'd dare say 2nd to last mission is easily harder than THK, seeing as how THK is mind-numbling easy to do with henchmen, not so much for the other.

POV, or point of view, to each person the game is different, you questioning someones view of what is hard and what it not is moronic at best. If you yourself do not want people to whine about what you say as your opinion then do not attack the opinions of others, simple as that.

Not true. The marketing is equaly, if not more of a driveing force behind the quality(forced schedules). It might be possible to make perfect software, but how many years are consumers going to wait for the testing to finish. FULL testing of something like Guild Wars would put it out of date by years when it was done.

Sorry, but the henchmen I've used live up to Prophecies for me. And in some ways progressed. Especially the Ele. The Monk almost allways starts rezing before the Rit (the Rit rezes faster so he sometimes beats her to the finish) A few times they've waithed a LONG time, but I don't know if that's energy or whatnot.

Btw, I've heard from people who work at Pratt & Whitney that problems have arisen from Avionics software bugs. So much for perfect.

To me, Factions is an expansion marketed as a full game. NO matter what a-net says, most players would agree the content you're getting is that of an expansion, only you paid 50$. If they put as much content as a 50$ game should have (not harder monsters or UPS/FedEX quests), or dropped the price to 30$, people wouldn't be so mad.

Swell..

70 dollars, plus, another 49.99 while I'm waiting for the 70 dollar version to arrive (still).. not to mention that the 49.99 was just for a key from ncsoft.. no packaging.. no booklet, no.. anything.

Talk about a bargain!

Not true - when I say I finished the game in just under a week, that wasen't just doing the missions/quests needed to finish the game - it was doing every single mission/quest I could find (enough to have over 81% of cantha uncovered) in the city and on both Luxon and Kurzick side, with some of the repeatable ones done more than once (and some of the missions repeated to help guildioes/alliance members) for the faction needed to complete the the befriending quests.

I've said it before and there is no getting away from it - Factions has a lot less content and is padded out with lots of repetative back-tracking and having to do the same things over and over - for example, tonight I decided to clear up some on the Waijun Bazaar qusts on the 2nd character I'm taking through - half were fresh in the area and half collecting rewards from quests in the area so this was at least the 2nd time I'd had to clear the same area - once cleared I ended up covering the same path of red dots 4 or 5 times to complete the rest of the quests/get rewards, then mapped to the Emperors Hand for the last reward - and bugger me if he didn't then give me a new quest that involved re-clearing the exact same area I'd already just done at least twice (incidently, I'll have to clear this area when making my way to the undercity for those quests too) - this is what makes Factions so boring - I took 5 characters through Prophecies and it kept me hooked for 9 month's because of the variety, but I'm really struggling to stay interested enough to take a 2nd through factions and that dosen't bode well for the future.

I am one of the original doomsayers if you like to call me that, who emerged shortly after factions release, and was dissappointed with factions for many reasons already pointed out several times in this thread and many others.

However having said all theres to be said, i am still playing it and some parts though more frustrating (feels like i am being punished by the game AI at times) than others, there were great moments too, just not that many. Set goals you want to acheive in the game and work towards them and you will be duely rewarded.

Fun finds a way.

My only hope is that Anet reads this and makes a better "expansion" next time and gets on to fixing more of the current game and provide us with the addons as promised.

well, factions is short prolly due to the fact that the missions in the game are short..each can be completed within an hour for a decent player..and for a skillful group, it takes much faster..hence, the main game can be completed quite fast and you are either plunged into pvp or quest/factions grinding too fast

for me, the missions are fun but they are too short. Hence, it makes GW:F a short game comparing to GW:P where the missions are long. As a result, the players complete the game in a manner of days if they are really hardcore..hence, after they completed the game, for the PvE players, all is left to do is quest/factions grinding..well, unless they are interested in jade quarry/fort aspenwood, then at least there are something to do, but if they are otherwise..then quest grinding alone will be boring..

so i think anet better input additional long missions (akin to the missions in GW:P) comparing to GW:F in the future..to prolong the gameplay of future chapter of GW..

I have to make a comment about the map in Factions.

I know it must have seemed like a swell idea to have overlapping zones on the map. I can imagine some young developer running into the office one morning screaming "I've got a great idea!". Me, personally, I like to use my map. I like to open up my map, click through my quests to see where each one is, and plan my route. That is what the map is for, isn't it? The city areas of the map are already next to useless (it looks like someone had a field day in Paintbrush with the grey and brown colors), but then you have to actually overlap two zones? It sort of makes it difficult to tell where I'm suppose to be going for a quest. It's a hassle, one that really doesn't even need to be there, what with all the space on the Canthan map that doesn't get explored. You could have just stuck the Skyway off to the side somewhere, or vice versa with the Undercity. And I know for a fact, at least one part of the outline of the map can only be uncovered from the Undercity, not the Skyway. So there's another hassle for those of us going for 100% map completion. Run through a section of map, then run through it again. I could also mention what a pain in the ass it is trying to figure out what portals on the map are suppose to connect which areas. Prophecies had such clearly defined zones, it was much better.

Also, having separate mission entrance locations for different characters is really just another pointless hassle. Sure, it's cool to have Tyrian characters go about a mission a different way than Canthan characters, but you could have at least put the zones in the same place. You already showed you know how to overlap zones. If my Tyrian character wants to go to the Undercity, he has to go through two areas to get there, where as a Canthan character can just quick travel to the Local Square and step outside. Just unnecessary hassles.

I find that there are not as many primary missions in Factions as there where in Prof.

Also, I think that in prof, your always advancing through the story line a mission at a time, all in different areas. I think you never do a primary mission in an area that you have been in before (I may be wrong, but it must only be 1 or 2). Where in factions, your running over old ground for quite a few missions.

i seen a guy the other day with 90% of cantha unlocked now 1 either the title will change to go with any updates or 2 what we see is all there is lol. it was like going from ascalon to beakans perch lol

I bought into Guild Wars because its main focus was PvP. I had gotten bored of the main competative games. The Unreal Tournaments, and Warcraft IIIs. I wanted something a little more singular and intelligant. Guild Wars filled that space perfectly and Factions extends its PvP gameplay incredibly well. PvE is nice but I have never seen it as a prime goal for the game and people complaining about a lack of it in GW is akin to people complaining that Unreal Tournament has a short single player mode. It just seems a little obvious to me.

If people are looking for a beautifully designed world, full of unique locations, quests and huge landscapes. Pick up Oblivion because Factions and Guild Wars in general just doesn't seem to be the game for you.

Wow and you think the compression/scaling isnt anything related to bitsize?

Actually im quite happy with what they have done with Factions. It would have sucked if it was a direct clone of prophesies, although it seems there are some people that would have liked this. The new areas are very nice, new monsters, new quests/missions, new armor/weapons. That is the standard content you can expect from a sequel/expansion like game.

And if you are whining about not enough content, i guess you whined as well when LoD came out... only 1 act extra compared to the 4 already existing.

Dont say Factions is crap until you have seen it all.

It took me 3 1/2 days to finish Factions and it took me 5 days to finish prophesies. But the latter took only that long, because it took a long time to level up. Maybe I could finish it faster if i took a runner/powerleveler, but that would have taken the fun out of it all, right?

players are going to have different likes/dislikes

I didnt mind the backtracking
(and Prophecies did some too - such as the quest series Minaars Worry/Minaars Trouble from Travelers Vale)


all future expansions will always have the 6 core classes from Prophecy and the expansions will have less content to level new chars to 20

most expansion content will be oriented towards level 20 chars
(level 20 quests were lacking in Prophecy in comparison to Factions)


like someone who posted earlier, I never PvPed in Prophecy (I'm a PvE player) but I did enjoy the PvE/PvP mix in Fort Aspenwood

I wish the city section in Factions wasnt so big but otherwise I'm very happy with the expansion

When the game was first lunched it was marketed as a rpg in beta. In fact there is website from 2005 that talks about how the game was to be made. Also awards and the fact that anet market themself rpg company. Any thing less would be miss leading.

Well I suggest you take a close look at the gamebox again and then tell me where it states that PvP is the main goal.

Guildwars is neither PvE or PvP as a primary focus

GuildWars is marketed as a competitive RPG
- interpret that as you will

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars/525111p1.html
FAQ from this site
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ars-id1290.php

It was first marketed as coaperative then later they added competive.

here is an exmple

http://gwtactics.com/staticpages/index.php?page=pre2

note it say focus on rpg. I have also come a cross where anet talks about in depth how they wanted to make the gamefrom 2005, but it has change from that.

that may have been true prelaunch

but since release (04/2005), GuildWars been called Competitive RPG

the gamespy preview interview was done 06/2004,
almost a year before Guildwars was released

in the link you gave -- it doesnt just say RPG,
it says RPG "playing with and against other players"

I see the competative media push and Factions direction as the best indication of what GW is all about. PvE is developed for sure, ANet are trying to cover both markets. Its just good business sense but honestly i've never seen it as a traditional MMORPG like WoW or FFXI where co-op PvE play was at the fore and PvP was a second thought at best and it was never advetised as such. Its not what I bought the game for and its definatly not what I continue to play it for.

This strand of discussion is a chronically dead horse. Guild Wars is PvP and PvE. PvP is used to balance skills, but the bulk of development time seems to go towards creating a vast PvE world with lots of complex architecture and many different types of mobs to fight, each with their own skills and quirks.

Which is, to me, a pity. If they spent the same amount of dev time on the PvP side, we would have the best PvP game ever. Unfortunately, PvP has remained mostly static since GWP's release (with the exception of skill changes). Alliance Battles are a good addition, but I don't think they have the lasting power of HA or GvG. They are not that fun to play (at the moment) anyhow.

Well, considering i have an outside life (lol, yeah right) I STILL haven't beaten factions, whereas I beat prophesies in like.... a month or two? In fact, my assassin just got to level 15 <3

Yesterday's play reenforced my view that different leveling speed in the two chapters (for me and probably a lot of other PvE players) turns me off.

My lvl end 16 went to Cantha at LA and joined forces there with Mhenlo. I became mid 18 in like 90 minutes [fighting without group but 5 lvl 20 allies]. Then I get 3k exp for some goofer quest when in Tyria mission and bonus give me 2k. Bah.
This kills immersion really fast...

Factions is definatly "The Grind" Mentality - Mob after 10 man Mob with 20 man Mob behind you pressing in but Once you get out of the City area and make it to Cavalon or House zu Heltz The game opens up and I enjoyed it a little bit more. I was a little discusted when I got to the mission before the Harvest Temple w/ my warrior. I was pretty much useless because I couldn't hit the Dragon due to the gulf, I was just stuck working crowd control on the Afflicted and those Land mine Clams.

Missions I would say are not Harder than GWP but are a lot less Henchable but that maybe due to the fact I really haven't learned how to use the new Henchies to there full Potential. I now have to remember to keep in mind there new found Stupidity AI. Just steer clear of the Assassian if you don't want 2-3 mobs on you at once. But w/ a PUG you can run them fairly easy.

I really never had any issues with TDK or Hell's I don't understand why people have issues w/ them besides the fact they are just way to freakin long.

It is just refreshing to have new content just Hate the locked gates after you have already beaten game with one character. Everything at that point should be open to all of your characters and have free run of the map.