Touch Ranger Nerf Idea - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

RTSFirebat

The Humanoid Typhoon

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

28 Jun 2006 at 16:18 - 281

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mov

Something must be done to touch rangers, if they are underpowered like all you touch rangers above say they are, then why is 60-70% of alliance battle players touch rangers? Alliance battles have become Touch Ranger battles, it sucks.

Come now, I'm not sure what time you play on, but while I do see Touch Rangers (Me included sometimes), its not where near that many... normally I see a team of 4 Touch rangers at most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mov

I think being able to stop those attacks with blind is a great idea, if a warrior cant hit you with a big fat hammer, sword, or axe when right in front of players then i think the same should be done to them.

In the short term, I think this idea you gave is the best, if a Touch Ranger is blinded, their Touch skills should simply miss till the effect goes away... or at least make them miss 75% of the time.

Turbobusa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

By the Luxon Scavenger

The Mentalists [THPK]

N/

28 Jun 2006 at 19:34 - 282

what about vampiric gaze and healing touch when blinded?
if you wanna be logical, then you should nerf them with many other skills.
that's not only a touch ranger nerf

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigried

hem cuz if they do they will nefed the necro class

well, as a necromancer, you won't run with this
15e is just too much for the damage output, same as life stealing. vampiric gaze does~ the same, 10e.
nerf it, it's useless for necromancers imo

The Real Roy Keane

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Dublin, Ireland

28 Jun 2006 at 19:53 - 283

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mov

/signed

Something must be done to touch rangers, if they are underpowered like all you touch rangers above say they are, then why is 60-70% of alliance battle players touch rangers? Alliance battles have become Touch Ranger battles, it sucks.

They must all think they have advantage or there wouldnt be so god dam many of em.

Because at least 60-70% of Alliance Battle players wouldn't know a good PvP build if it hit them in the back with Eviscerate. How many times does it have to be stated that there is nothing overpowered about touch Rangers? Gale Warriors, Cripshot Rangers, OoB Boon Monks- these were overpowered builds, but only just, and only when they worked together. The touch Ranger doesn't fit particularly well into any team build and only finds its niche in 'casual' PvP areas such as RA, where it's possible to succeed with self sufficient but unspecialised builds. In fact, should the damage dealt by Touch and Bite be raised slighly, say by five damage or so, the build still wouldn't be anywhere near nerf-worthy.
Seriously people, give it a rest.

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

29 Jun 2006 at 02:05 - 284

I made a PvP mesmer specialising in Domination Magic. I brought Diversion. I watched the touch ranger use Vampiric Touch with Diversion on them. I watched them despiraty use only Vampiric Bite. I used Diversion again and watched the Touch Ranger try to run away. I looked at a dead touch ranger and laughed.

Dark Suoon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Organization of Dawn [DAWN]

W/D

29 Jun 2006 at 02:38 - 285

nerf em if u like but they arent very good now. ppl kno how to overpower em like i do

Aiyla

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Blood Of Orr

R/

29 Jun 2006 at 03:19 - 286

Although touch rangers can be defeated rather easily in strait PvP, they're extremely difficult to deal with when NPCs are involved. I'm talking about Fort Aspenwood. Touch rangers can take out a gate in seconds, and no one can do anything about it. The NPCs don't run away like people would, they just stand there and get owned. Very little anyone can do about this. It's bad enough that the Luxons already have their overpowered seige turtles while the Kurzicks are stuck with their can't-kill-an-NPC-warrior juggernauts. I don't have a proposed solution to this, but it is a problem. Why ANet thought they needed to duplicate skills, I'll never know.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

29 Jun 2006 at 03:27 - 287

As long as necros arent "touched" (no pun intended), nerf away. Because when the actual profession can't use their skills effectively, we have a problem.

If anything they should just be spells with touch range.

primal98

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

29 Jun 2006 at 03:39 - 288

I tried one... it was ok... nothign special. I played a few in alliance battles, and really my ele had no issues dealign with them. I can see at times they can be useful... but I see no reason too nerf? Why must we try and nerf every single build that is halfway decent? In the end we will be left with builds that take an absolute master to be able to play :P

~prime

unholy guardian

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Lost Haven

A/Mo

29 Jun 2006 at 04:31 - 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

As long as necros arent "touched" (no pun intended), nerf away. Because when the actual profession can't use their skills effectively, we have a problem.

If anything they should just be spells with touch range.

i agree... i can see classes being able to do things differently than the main profession, but when it is like this... no necro uses vamparic bite... but a touch ranger can use it like it is nothing.

I'm very up for things like and iw mesmer using flurry, because it's being used differntly than the warrior, but the warrior still uses it well.

For a necro to use vamparic bite you waste 15 energy, do it a couple times and you are drained... a touch ranger can use it all day long practically, it's such a bad imbalance of where blood magic is being used better by another class, a non caster class too. It's like before twisting fangs was moved to critical strikes... rangers did like everything better than the assassin could ever do, and to boot they still have better survivability than an assassin.

I'm not saying rangers should have to stick to bows... but i don't think they should be doing something sooooo much better than the profession is comes from.

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

29 Jun 2006 at 07:58 - 290

Oh come on! Just bombard a touchie immediately and interrupt the others' res sigs. If they manage to res him, bombard again. Even touchies can't cope with 4 ppl whooping his ass at a time. They usually take one target at a time. Maybe some manage 2, but 4??

aeronox

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

29 Jun 2006 at 13:56 - 291

Quote:

Originally Posted by primal98

I tried one... it was ok... nothign special. I played a few in alliance battles, and really my ele had no issues dealign with them. I can see at times they can be useful... but I see no reason too nerf? Why must we try and nerf every single build that is halfway decent? In the end we will be left with builds that take an absolute master to be able to play :P

~prime

The reason I play GW is that it's tough to pull off even mildly effective builds. With the exception of cookie-cutter "Press C, Press Skill1 Skill2 Skill3, Repeat".

The Touch Ranger epidemic is mostly an AB issue, to those saying "we pwned touchies in HA/GvG". I love playing mesmer, but no amount of degen and/or shutdown will be able to handle the flood of Touch Rangers there. I can divert a skill or two on 1 or 2 touchers, but there's still 6+ others in a typical battle that I can't disable.

Making the skills into "Spells" with touch range makes sense - healing touch and blood ritual are such skill types (albeit for allies).

Juicey Shake

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

CA

in it for the trimmmm

R/

29 Jun 2006 at 14:16 - 292

Right, nerf this-- and that, because we can't figure out how to counter it! If there are too many touchers in 12v12, oh, I don't know.. roll a cripshot?... They have no independant self-heal, so disable their movement and it's gg.

aeronox

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

29 Jun 2006 at 14:27 - 293

Plague Touch is pretty effective, and brought specifically for Cripple. With 12 foes + NPCs + Minions, there's no shortage of adjacent targets to transfer the condition.

Guild Wars should encourage diversity and skill. What is diverse or skillful about this build?

RTSFirebat

The Humanoid Typhoon

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

29 Jun 2006 at 15:08 - 294

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeronox

Guild Wars should encourage diversity and skill. What is diverse or skillful about this build?

Yes becuase IWAY fame farming is very diverse and skillful

Undivine

of Brackenwood

Join Date: Oct 2005

Ontario, Canada

29 Jun 2006 at 17:51 - 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Yes becuase IWAY fame farming is very diverse and skillful

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

29 Jun 2006 at 23:24 - 296

Quote:

Originally Posted by primal98

I tried one... it was ok... nothign special. I played a few in alliance battles, and really my ele had no issues dealign with them. I can see at times they can be useful... but I see no reason too nerf? Why must we try and nerf every single build that is halfway decent? In the end we will be left with builds that take an absolute master to be able to play :P

~prime

About changing them to Spells, no, no way at all. I use a necro primarily, and I like to bring Vampiric Touch. It's one of the few skills that works on things using Spell Breaker (because it's a skill) and it goes through most protections (convienient to end a long battle). Just changing it to a spell would defeat its use. Vampiric Gaze is the spell counterpart.

Here's two reasonable aproaches:

1. Change expertise. Make it so that it does not affect skills from other professions (except attack skills). This way rangers are limited to what they can reduce the cost of.

2. Learn how to counter the build. Figure out builds that can easily take them out. If you can make a single person build able to kill one, then touch rangers have become less useful.

One more thing. Can anyone tell me ONE ranger skill that is NOT affected by Expertise?

Gargle Blaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

30 Jun 2006 at 01:58 - 297

killing the build is reasonable? how about yall read the first post for a reasonable buff/nerf...

Cirian

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

European Union

The Amazon Basin

30 Jun 2006 at 09:30 - 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

One more thing. Can anyone tell me ONE ranger skill that is NOT affected by Expertise?

Antidote Signet

markus_thom

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Australia(the land of lesser games)

neptunes grace

R/W

30 Jun 2006 at 09:43 - 299

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

They're not over powered though... Cripple + Degen and they're dead before they know it.

I think your missing the point, what you just mentioned works on anything that is melee based or needs to get close to attack.

But yeah it would make sense if touch rangers when blinded missed, it does Make sense and every other character has to put up with the condition.

GOD dang it dont nerf expertise I dont like nerfing which takes away expertise meaning less combanations of builds, if anything add more effective counters.

ANOTHER IDEA!!!!!

Or just another use for a monk skill.

I THINK THAT THEY could buff THE MOVE SCOURGE HEALING To damage RANGERS when using SELF HEAL touch skills, If you read the description it does mention it does holy damage when healed, not to sure of exact definition of skill.

But It would work lol.

samifly

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Girl Power [GP]

Mo/Me

30 Jun 2006 at 10:28 - 300

What, exactly, would be the point of touch skills, if they dont work blinded. Blackout would be useless, and especially Plauge touch.

Gargle Blaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

30 Jun 2006 at 15:09 - 301

blackout and plauge touch are not attack skills -- but yes blind should work on them too.

Caleb

Nil nisi malis terrori.

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/Me

30 Jun 2006 at 15:13 - 302

My opinion is that no skill nerf is needed, competitors just need to utilize better counters.

Gargle Blaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

30 Jun 2006 at 15:19 - 303

there is no counter to touch skills... only thing you can do is slow them down and speed yourself up.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

30 Jun 2006 at 15:22 - 304

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I dont think that Touchers are overpowered (read my past posts) but im sick of all this arguing. So how about a proposal to change something to satisfy some people?
-----------------------
Proposal
Add a new category of skills called Lifestealing. Vampiric weapons would be categorized as Lifestealing as well. This way we can differentiate from Physical, Elemental, and Lifesteal damage.

Affected Skills
Vampiric Bite: Lifestealing Skill
Vampiric Touch: Lifestealing Skill

Lifestealing skills cost the same to a Necromancer (nothing changes for necros, they are unaffected) but only receive HALF the affect of expertise (Just like how Ritualist spirits give only half the affect of Soul Reaping).

Vampiric Gaze: Lifestealing Spell

Still a spell, still backfired, etc.

Desired Effect
This would tone down the power of the touch ranger skills without competely nerfing them to death.

At 16 Expertise, a ranger can use Vampiric Touch for the cost of 10 energy (i think...)

------------------
so? can we behave now and not fight? (except in RA, TA, GvG, HA, and AB)

I'm quoting myself because no one seems to have read my post, and i feel that its very relevant to the current direction of the thread. -.-

Caleb

Nil nisi malis terrori.

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/Me

30 Jun 2006 at 15:24 - 305

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

there is no counter to touch skills... only thing you can do is slow them down and speed yourself up.

Your own post opens up at least 20 counters to touch skills.

Slow them down (at least 10 skills)

Speed yourself up (at least 10 skills)

Not to mention the other counters already posted in this thread.

quanzong

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere cold

The Followers of the Messiah

W/Me

30 Jun 2006 at 15:28 - 306

ya I think touch rangers should be nerfed, why use a ranger for 50%+ necromancer skills? That is wrong, if you want to use 50% of a class skills, then be that class at least!

Chicken Ftw

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

30 Jun 2006 at 15:49 - 307

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanzong

ya I think touch rangers should be nerfed, why use a ranger for 50%+ necromancer skills? That is wrong, if you want to use 50% of a class skills, then be that class at least!

50%+? Bite, Touch, OoB. 3/8 does not equal 50%+. Also, it's called synergy. If it's removed, there will be no reason to have a second profession. If Anet nerfs touch rangers, I'm done with GW. Why? Because they'll have nerfed a build just because people won't use the counters available. "I don't wanna take a counter just to touch rangers." Snares are anti-melee and anti-kiter as well. They're NOT just anti-toucher. The fact that this and the other topics are still going just shows that people refuse to read and use the counters listed, in which case, we can't help you. Hey, while you're doing useless things, go stand next to that warrior while you're on your necro, he'll thank you for it with an Eviscerate, and you can come here and cry for a warrior nerf. Sadly, some people will listen and agree. <_<

Gargle Blaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

30 Jun 2006 at 15:52 - 308

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caleb The Pontiff

Your own post opens up at least 20 counters to touch skills.

Slow them down (at least 10 skills)

Speed yourself up (at least 10 skills)

Not to mention the other counters already posted in this thread.

lets think about this...

let say we got an ele casting a fire spell, or a warrior swinging at you, or ranger using a bow... you get the idea...

there are LOTS of counters... not only can you interupt but you also get damage reduction... in the form of wards, armors, stances, mantras, ...

how many damage reduction skills are there for touch rangers?

i dont mind running a little but, there is a line that was crossed with the addition of the dupe skills.

killer toast

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

im a guild RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO so not gonna waste time

W/Mo

30 Jun 2006 at 15:59 - 309

they arent that strong they win in ra and ta but in gvgs and ha they are easily outhealed unless you decide to try and tank that damage like a idiot in which case you deserve to die -.- touch rangers=ftl

Ricebox

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

Head Turners Inc.

W/E

30 Jun 2006 at 16:02 - 310

bottom line is EVERYTHING HAS A COUNTER! so yeah, there is really no need to nerf it!

Those people who keep crying for touch rangers to get nerfed are a bunch of lazy people who are too lazy to think of a way to counter such builds!

Minus Sign

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/N

30 Jun 2006 at 16:16 - 311

I've read your post lyra_song. Doubling the skills cost in a mana pool of 35 regularly and only 3 pips of regen. 5 attacks (with OoB and regen calculated for) and you're out of juice. How do you consider that anything less than a massive nerf of the build. That wouldn't be a light nerf, it would DESTROY touch rangers.

On the attack skill issue. Making a touching skill that "does damage" react to conditions like an attack skill will have far more reaching consequences than people understand once the balancing scales are applied to this idea. Example:

Shove: Elite skill. Damage and KD.
Shock: Skill: KD+dmg w/armor penetration

Neither react to blind atm. Both work through evade and block. Both are staples of Knockdown PvP warriors.

So for the last time (hopefully) on "dmg touches should be attacks" issue:

/NOTSIGNEDEVER TO NERF MY W/E!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

let say we got an ele casting a fire spell

lets say she's casting an Earth spell. Lets even call it Obsidian Flame

Quote:

, or a warrior swinging at you

with Warrior's Cunning stance

Quote:

or ranger using a bow...

to fire Called Shot or Crip shot?

Quote:

you get the idea...

I'd like to think I'm starting to...

Quote:

there are LOTS of counters... not only can you interupt

touch skills are 3/4 seconds, bring a mesmer, use a shortbow, knock them down!

Quote:

but you also get damage reduction... in the form of wards, armors, stances, mantras... ...

all the same, block, evade or up armor. Not snare, Edenial, degen, distracting shot and interupts, Distortion (ANTI-SPAM!)...

Quote:

how many damage reduction skills are there for touch rangers?

The real complaint about touch rangers. And the reason why Obsidian spikes kill you so often. And Crystal Wave, etc. I'm sorry I don't know exactly how many slow skills, interupts, knockdowns, degen hexes, anti-spams, etc etc etc etc exist in this game accross all 8 proffessions. But, as I and others have said and shown time and again throughout this thread and others like it, there exist several for each proffession. Perhaps someone here would like to count them all out for us?

Quote:

i dont mind running a little

you must. The only people with reason to complain are those who don't kite.

Quote:

but, there is a line that was crossed with the addition of the dupe skills.

Then step over with the rest of us who bought Factions and adapted. Join the dark side; you'll like it over here.

quanzong

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere cold

The Followers of the Messiah

W/Me

30 Jun 2006 at 16:26 - 312

Sorry I never played a ranger, but I have faced a touch ranger, and I feel like they are cheating agaisnt me, because if something owns a warrior in a 1-1 combat, using melee type skills (have to touch your opponent), and isnt a assassin, or warrior, I consider cheaters. Because if something owns a warrior or assassin in melee, then THEY SHOULD delete the warriors and assassins, since they are worthless agaist a ranger, with cheating skills. All they do is spam same skills over and over with 100% chance win against a warrior who doesnt expect a ranger to have cheap touch necromancer skills. Thats like fighting a mob over and over and always getting gold drop (which is like beating someone up in PvP), and in PvE that is considered cheating.

killer toast

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

im a guild RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO so not gonna waste time

W/Mo

30 Jun 2006 at 16:34 - 313

ummm what type of warrior or assassin are you using to that gets beat by a touchranger? they die fast since they have garbage armor unless they have a monk but thats when you use TEAMWORK

leeroy jenkins=ftl what does getting gold drops have to do with getting pwned lol i like gold drops i dont like getting pwned -.-

quanzong

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere cold

The Followers of the Messiah

W/Me

30 Jun 2006 at 16:42 - 314

I have a good skill set, and 15K gladiator isnt garbage. I almost beat touch ranger but they get health regain health so fast because they spam that vampric touch and other health stealing skills. In Alliance battle when you die, 60% chance your going to go alone since 65% of people are fighting instead of capping, and either a warrior comes to challenge me 1-1, or a touch ranger, sometimes another class. Alliance is very fun I think, but a lot of 1-1s appear in em, I'm sure there are at least 4 1-1s that happened in every alliance battle, whether or not your in one of them. And thats where those Touch Rangers, start spamming there cheat codes.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

30 Jun 2006 at 16:58 - 315

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

I've read your post lyra_song. Doubling the skills cost in a mana pool of 35 regularly and only 3 pips of regen. 5 attacks (with OoB and regen calculated for) and you're out of juice. How do you consider that anything less than a massive nerf of the build. That wouldn't be a light nerf, it would DESTROY touch rangers.

How about a 75% increase as supposed to 100%?? instead of 10 or 5, it would be a middle number...say 7-8.

I dont want to destroy the touchies, i think its the uber most annoying build around. XD

The Hand Of Death

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cavalon

The Last Pirates (SaVY)

N/

30 Jun 2006 at 17:13 - 316

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanzong

ya I think touch rangers should be nerfed, why use a ranger for 50%+ necromancer skills? That is wrong, if you want to use 50% of a class skills, then be that class at least!

Fast Cast Air Spikers? We should nerf them also because they use more than 50% of another classes skills. Same with that Ranger/Assasin pre-made build.

The Hand Of Death

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cavalon

The Last Pirates (SaVY)

N/

30 Jun 2006 at 17:18 - 317

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

there is no counter to touch skills... only thing you can do is slow them down and speed yourself up.

Slowing them down (water ele, cripple, crippling anguish, immagined burden)

Speeding youself up (dodge, sprint)

Constant Degen (life siphon, conjure phantasm, life transfer)

Diversion (killed many touch rangers with this)

Distracting Shot (if your lucky)

Energy Denial (easiest way to kill them, no energy no vampiric touches)

Constant Conditions (make sure they are not around anyone)

There are many ways to kill a touch ranger, they are not very hard to kill. Mesmers do very well against them so if you are worried about touch rangers bring a mesmer along.

Winx.ZN

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

30 Jun 2006 at 22:55 - 318

I dont think they are very useful anywhere but in AB.
Anyway, I think it just makes SENSE that :
To touch/bite/gaze someone you need to see. The picture for "Blind" has a dude with a cover over his eyes, how exactly is he "gazing" me? Last time I tried to eat a burger with my eyes closed it didnt work out too well. If my tank swings a humongous stick at someone and misses 100% of the time then I would guess he cant touch them either.
Either way, dont "nerf", they are only a problem when theres 4 of them really. Just the skill description and logic bugs me.
PS
Even with 4, if they arent smart enough, a smite build with balthazaars aura and zealots fire (most people in AB are worse than the AI, they dun from from AoE) does short work of them.
As a tank I take GB just in case I come up to one of them (or an assassin for that matter).
-ez does it-
: Edit :
Might as well throw my little build here. I made it for touchers, but its fun all round in AB. Works for me. Doesnt stop an army of them, but the they will feel the burn.
Leaves them with a total of -4 energy point regen, -10 health point regen and a loss of 10 energy from the start for a cost of 45 energy in 10 seconds. After that, kite and watch em fall. Someone else in your group can slow them if you like.
MC Hammer (Cant Touch This) N/Me
Wither {E} (-4hpr/-2epr) (10e 2c 10r)
Malaise (-2epr/-2hpr to self) (5e 2c 2r)
Parasitic Bond (-1hpr) (5e 1c 2r) (20 seconds later and you get 129hp, so go around casting on everything you come across!)
Lifesiphon (-2hpr/+2hp to self) (10e 2c 2r) (same here, cast away, while running from shrine to shrine)
Faintheartedness (-3hpr) (10e 1c 8r)
Guilt (steal 10 energy) (5e 2c 30r)
Diversion (no more skill for 38 seconds!) (10e 3c 10r) / Energy Burn (steal 6 and do 60 damage) (10e 3c 10r)
Backfire (98 damage per skill used) (15e 3c 20r)
Attributes :
9 Dom
4 Blood (with minor)
10 Soul Reaping (with minor)
16 Curses (with superior)
Equipment I use : 5^50% HCT Curse (20%) wand craftable outside keineng and Villnars glove (its cheap!) +1 (20%) to Curse and HSR (20%). I guess a 20/20 staff with +5 energy and +1(20%) wrapping is the same thing :P
HF GL ^^

Winstar

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

London

30 Jun 2006 at 23:37 - 319

As mentioned by others they aren't an issue at all in GvG/RA/TA. They can be trouble in AB for your average team which is probably not that well organized. But touchers in groups don't have to be a problem. I once saw a GvG match between 2 highly ranked teams one of which was running a touch team. They got beaten easily by a balanced build. So why in the compressed setting of 4 are they that much more of a problem for another well organzied group of 4?

Imho, Alliance battles aren't really an accurate testing grounds for whether something is overpowered simply because of somewhat random group assignments and bad builds all over the place. If at a higher level of play, a compotent team with a good build doesn't have a chance in the majority of cases against a touch team, then it might deserve nerfing, but thats just not the case. I am certain there are a lot more potent things that could be done in AB's that simply aren't done yet. Over the course of a few games, for fun, some guildmates and I went out with a mini spike team and used TS. We completely rolled every group we hit in less time and with greater ease than any touch team I've ever seen. So if this sort of thing becomes prevelent should rush out and ban an ele spike? NO! Because it can be beaten. We don't need to nerf touchers, people just need to get better, build better, and coordinate better.

Cirian

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

European Union

The Amazon Basin

01 Jul 2006 at 01:23 - 320

It's a shame Touch Rangers aren't more diverse. They're all vampires really...

Like for instance you can make a R/E Touch Ranger with Shock, Lightning Touch and Glyph of Elemental Power, but it's awful

Long recast, poor damage AND exhaustion? Where do I sign?!

You can even make a R/Mo Touch Ranger with some knockdown signets and smite skills (Holy Strike, Soulstone Strike, Smite etc), throw in the Brambles spirit to add bleeding to every knockdown and maybe Quickening Zephyr to get the smite skills ticking over faster. Maybe put CoP in there just because it's a skill and benefits from Expertise

It has a glimmer of potential, but it's probably best forgotten...