Touch Ranger Nerf Idea

touch skills= touch spells. GG. :P

for anyone who thinks vampiric touch & bite should be spells, then check out Cultist's Fervor ...
This would be a huge buff to Primary Necro's add Kinetic armor and steal away!...
So we can have touch necros that can steal even more life from you... not saying people say this i just don't want to read all the pages

edit: link was inproper

if i went Necro/Mesmer then i will arcane echo vamp gaze as well!!! that'd be fun

umm....no.

Like others said before, the skills are fine the way they are, and nerfing expertise would destroy rangers. In case you forgot rangers use expertise for other things such as traps, spirits, etc, not just attacks. Most ranger attacks are 5-10 energy anyways, so restricting expertise to attacks makes the whole primary attribute useless.

Argh!! Those darn touch rangers have taken over GW with their hugely overpowered abilities...err, wait, they're only good against RA players that probably don't even realize that you can RUN AWAY when someone is going after you

So its a FOTM build now is it? Now let me see... Binding Rituals have incredibly annoying recharge times... some of them would definatly be beneficial to have up often... i have an elite that decreases recharge times of them by ~65%

Now let me think? Oh i know! *brings Soul Twisting*

All i can say is bullshit... i never even realised that was a FOTM build until now and i've been waiting to get hold of that elite since i made my Ritualist, a build that is so incredibly obvious isn't copied. We're not talking IWAY here that *was* a well designed build, this is merely bleeding obvious.

The only thing i dislike about the Touch Rangers is the fact they're taking advantage of the utterly stupid clone skills. Its bad enough on my runner who drops all Wilderness Survival and just goes around with Escape, Dodge and Zojun's Haste.

Invictus... i think your missing the point. A Primary necro can't keep spamming Vamp Touch/Bite long at all, Expertise dulls the blow nicely and gives the ranger links to the best evasive stances in the game.

they used to be spells.. that aint gonna happen

Touch rangers dont bother me that much since I play necro in pvp and I bring degen spells.

touches are what they are: touches....not attacks....if ANET does nerf the expertise usage of these skills...they will classify all touch skills (including blackout and shock etc.) into the classification of touch skills. troll unguent, throw dirt, and a few others are regular skills that are meant to be used when needed so they do belong in skills so i can not see anything done about that...but come on guys...bring a snare....not overpowered

nah its fine the way it is its possible to own those touchy's and its even hard so its a challenge as long as not everyone starts being touchy its k

Yeah, I finally got out of RA. It really is pointless, but I wanted to get used to the build before I went to the next level.



Yeah, we sucked balls, didn't we? That was my first time in TA with my Rit last night. Damn, my team build is just freaking HORRIBLE. I need to stop playing. 20 wins in a row in TA the first time I tried? I am a total loser.

I love it when people get pissed off at me and try to prove me wrong. They always, unknowingly, prove my point.

20 consecutive wins. Commendable. But the key issue of this thread is that Touch Rangers are overpowered and prolific in TA and RA.

20 wins back to back. You do realize what you’ve told everyone here with your constant nerf cries, don’t you? 1 of 3 things has happened, or were never there to start.

1. You didn’t face Touch Rangers yesterday. 20 consecutive wins, 20 times back to back and you never faced them. That hardly sounds like a prolific build to me. If they aren’t being overused, maybe there’s a reason behind it (such as, they are easily countered…)

2. You fought them and won with your build. That you won shows that they are not the unrelenting force you have lauded about for low these several days.

3. Your Mesmers took the hint and adjusted their build, bringing the skills people have been telling them to bring for weeks now, and you as well. If so your welcome for your 20 win streak. Next time, don’t be so obnoxious in asking others for help

Whichever the case, thank you kvndoom for proving my and every other anti-nerfers point…and doing it with big flashy pictures too!

Touch Rangers are not overpowered in TA and RA, the only place where they would be. Bring your counters and stop complaining.

GG

Yeah, I think you pretty much won this thread. Nothing left to say.

Touch Rangers yes much talk about them
those who got killed by them call them noobs and
cheaters, those who use them brag about them
and when a Toucher gets killed its a big deal in the
battle field BUT Touch Rangers are not as good as
everyone thinks, its mearly a build that can SEEM
invurnable but they face much difficulties

Weakness
Knock Down
Energy
Melee Range
Face High Hp enemies
Many are Beginners
No Self Heal

Strenght
Seems to have unlimited health
Decent Spamming Damage
Can block and avoid attacks
High Elemental Defence
Using the "perfect build"
Can take out Normal Warriors with ease

and remember Mesmers Back fire and Empathy wont work
so youre wasting your energy however energy denail
and diversion can mean instant death to a Touch Ranger

So i say NO they dont need to get nerfed

and making a touch ranger is hard

First off i love the touch ranger build because its new and i love watching alot of ppl get mad over a new build they cant beat with their current character/build. They should'nt be nerfed at all, all u gotta do is find a way around them. Use KD's E-denial or the other choice, run away. I notice ppl are saying they are only effective in Ra and sumtime Ta. I dont know whether ppl dont have factions or just dont participate in the faction intake, but there is a massive amount of them in Alliance Battles. Dont think they are only made by newbies to the game( dont know how that would work b/c u gotta unlock the skills and the runes) and immediatly run into Ra. They are very very very effective in AB to make ur faction to add to ur alliance/guild. I say this because i run touch ranger in AB b/c 1. Its fun because alot of ppl dont know how to counter it 2. You can get ur faction pretty fast and 3. I love watching the opposing side bash the touch ranger build instead trying to counter it. There is nothing wrong with this build, ppl just have to chill out beacuse they cant just roll over them like any other build they encounter. Just be happy ppl that they hvnt made it into HoH or any major top ranking guilds.

*Pulls hair out of head*

I bet Anerf don't like this Touch Ranger business but we all know what happens to them when they nerf something. Technically, the Touch Rangers are taking an advantage of an error in the description/functionality of expertise because it says that the energy cost of "Attack Skills, Traps and Preparations" are reduced. These touches are NOT attack skills. Do you honestly think the designers inteded for rangers to be doing something like this? They'd nerf it but they get flamed for nerfing. Where do i go for an official response to this?

Not sure how you work that one out... a Touch skill does damage, thus it is an attack skill.

They are attack skills because they do damage to other people.

A.net already stated that experise is working as intended.

I used to hate touch rangers hardcore. Just recently I won 12 rounds in Random Arenas. It was me and my Shockwave Eletanker , A R/me interrupter, an SS/soul barbs Necro, and yes of course the toucher. We had no monk and I was the only person with healing spells in the party. As the battles progressed, I saw that the touch ranger was having it just as bad as the rest of us. She was getting pelted by cripshots, snares, the works. Luckily our necro had revealed hex. She also used plague touch to crip the warriors and get that condition off of here. Our of all the players, the toucher was the hardest to keep alive. Those matches kind of showed me that coordinating with a toucher in a heated fight proved that they aren't as cheap as people believe and yes I will say playing a good toucher takes some level of skill. Its so easy to kite away from touch attacks and every single class in the game has a snare of some sorts to stop them. I was able to obliterate enemy touch rangers with quick moves behind walls and obsidian flame. Our touch ranger hid from cripshots behind walls, retreated when overhexed, and showed there is a "correct" way to play a good toucher. People have this connotation in ther mind that a single touch ranger can wipe out an entire team by himself but this of course is untrue. There are alot of skills that prevent touchers and proper kiting can solve most of your problems. The usual noob touch rangers can be warded off just by running circles around a friendly warrior or obstacle. I don't think this build is cheap or overpowered, people are upset because the weaknesses of a touch ranger force them to change their favorite builds in order to incorporate something that can stop a toucher. Rather than complaining and moaning about a nerf, people need to learn how a touch rangers functions. Once you know the way a toucher operates and what weaknesses the build has, they really arent so bad. I will tell you that one on one in melee range, a touch ranger will eat a warrior alive. Cleave, Shove, even apply poison or sever artery are great moves against touchers if you play a war. Rangers dont have great defense against hexes and conditions like most other classes. A single life trans with a stacked conjure phantasm or imagined burden will waste one instantly.

BOTTOM LINE:
Noobs complain, better players learn how to beat this thing. Stop the touch ranger flaming and learn how they operate. This is a game of skill, just because your a warrior doesnt mean you can run up to anything and hack and slash it to death. Its that mentality thats starting all these arguements. As long as there is a leeroy who is going to rush from the other side of the arena and frenzy into my silver armor, there is always going to be people that complain about new and effective builds. Knowing what your up against and being able to use those mechanics to stategically rip apart an enemy team is what makes it in this game.

My last match in TA we faced a 4 man smite team. These guys were all Mo/R that protected themselves and sent their pets after us with zealots fire. After a long fight our team that dragged its way up the random arenas (toucher included) was ripped apart by flaming smiter dogs of death. Did we complain? No. The enemy teams build was good, solid and played well. Same can be said about touch rangers. They are not overpowered, people are just too lazy to get used to the proper stategy used to beat them. Hell, half of guildwars players don't even know what kiting is. If you just gonna be the average wammo and run up to a toucher ranger with your sword thinking your gonna win because your the "tank," well its your own fault you end up as a shriveled prune in the end.

I have never played a touch ranger, but I see them all the time in aspenwood and RA with my ele. So what, a touch ranger sneaks into the gate and kills gunther? No you didn't lose because of touch ranger cheapness, you lost because some idiot doesnt know how to shut the door. A warrior can do the same thing.

I fight touchers all the time, sometimes I win sometimes I lose. It's based on the circumstances of the match. A noob touch ranger walks into my AoE in order to deal damage. Other veteran touchers wait for me to be KD, or come in and attack me while im charging up a long cast spell. There is alot of skill involved in this game. Its all about timing, so less complaining more working on your skills. That is the final solution to this problem.

Touch Rangers don't need to be nerfed. Community noobness needs to be nerfed.

Idon't realy know whats ur problem...
Your ideas are useles because all touch ranger use plague touch to send conditions right back at you.And you can't suggest that that is changed to attack skill aswell because it is widely used amongst necromancers and not only touchers.

By simply putting one diversion hex on a touch ranger u can disable him completely, since the health gain from using only one of his vampric skills is not nearly enough to keep him alive.

My favourite tactic is to use cripshot on them with apply poisen and hunters shot for degen of 7.Because they can't get close enough to you to touch you they can't get rid of the cripple,poisen and bleeding and they won't live long because they can't steal hp.

Your lack of insight on how to deal with them is no reason to nerf the build.

they should nerf protective spirit so instead of 10% its 20%, it really gets ridiculous in aspenwood with a prot monk hiding behind gate making it extremely difficult to kill the last elementalist. There are already many other overpowered things, to nerf one should mean they would have to nerf them all aka 55 monk lol

Are we gonna talk about what needs to get nerfed?
nerf the 55hp monks then we can talk about nerfing
touch rangers.

however you know their weakness so thats
why it wont happen... learn the weakness
of touch rangers then

all build have a weakness perhaps you should try exploiting that aka DIVERISON

life stealing is not damage.

The only reason I want to see them nerfed is because i'm sick and tired of playing Cripple+Degen and Diversion builds.I go to RA to simply make builds when im bored.

Touch Rangers are fine IMO. If they were ever to be nerfed, IMO it should be to change Vamp Touch and Bite to "Deal X shadow damage. You gain this much in health."

How do you work that one out?

Any spell or skill which takes away life of the enemy by direct damage or life stealing is an attack.

Sure you gaining HP from the touch skill, but your damaging the other person at the same time. Therefore is is an attack.

Explain how Life Stealing is not a attack... if it stole life but didn't damage them that would make sense.

Currently you post makes no sense.

Finally there is nothing wrong with Touch Rangers....

it is an attack but it doesn't do damages, it steals your life. it can't be reduced by AL or monk spells. that's the difference
/signed

That would make it less broken, but still powerful.

Wrong. Vamp touch/bite/touch of agony are all SKILLS, not attacks. Vampyric bite and touch DO NOT deal actual damage. As such, effects like Healing Seed and Mark of Protection will not trigger from vamp touches. Please do 5 seconds of research before pretending to know what you're talking about.

Also, look up "irony."

On a last note, there are 2 ways A-net can go about fixing the touch ranger problem. If they thought it was way overpowered, they could chance the touch skills to spells, so expertise would not affect them.

Or, if they decide it needs a small nerf, they would change the skills to deal damage and gain life seperately.

In case you haven't noticed, Factions has a bunch of "duplicate" prophecies skills. This is so that people who own JUST Factions can still get the skills that ANet thought needed to be in both. IE: Crystal Wave = Teinai's Crystals, Vampiric Touch = Vampiric Bite, Teinai's Heat = Searing Heat, etc. Now you don't see anyone getting all angry about those other duplicates, because they could easily be put into a spike damage build. Touching is just one of the easier builds to play.

I don't see the big deal, I have only gone up against one touch ranger. It isn't like they are everywhere, like 55 monks.

IMO, touch ranger's use skills that in theory should require ur char to reach out and touch someone to steal the health so really when u think about it, if i was blinded i know my ability to reach out n grab someone would be made worse.

Like, a warrior can stand infront of someone with his sword/hammer/axe n be blinded and miss most of the time while swinging his huge weapon about like mad at a target thats one step infront of him, yet a touch skill hits home everytime. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....naw pal.

always confused me.

But the other skills don't do unpreventable life loss and heal the user at the same time, all for 6 energy. Yes, putting 2 heal others or 2 penetrating blows on one bar is effective, but not as broken as touch/bite. Touchers weren't that good before factions simply because their damage was preventable.

At your first statement: Then isn't basically every damage dealing spell an attack? I don't think so. Go tell ANet that Earthquake should be an attack.
Second statement: Like 8/10's of all skills in GW are damage dealing, but most of them aren't attacks. If the damage was physical damage, such as blunt, slashing, or pierced, you would have a point. But you don't. It's stealing health, not attacking the other person.
Final statement: Did you just contradict yourself again? How can you steal health from them and not hurt them? It's called STEALING for a reason..

This build is quite possibly the cheapest thing ever to be in a game, even ahead of the CS AWP. This should be fixed

Solution is either a. Touch skills cancel the dodge skills, which makes them killable, and/or b. put the touch skills in soul so only necro primaries can use them effectively. Solution A is the best.

I have seen many rounds where 8+ Luxons are using touch rangers, and it is getting old. Most I have seen on Kurzik is 4.

Touch rangers are pretty much a joke. Had a touch ranger at my tale once...he died, not me.

/not signed

Ok Vampiric Touch is an attack skill because it deals dmg? Blackout doesn't but that costs less with Expertise so what's your response to that? Anet aren't fixing it because they get flamed for nerfing. That's the bottom line.

Debateable. Do you work for A.net? No. Do I? Nope.

If and when they may ever nerf or change touch skills is unknown.

My Touch Ranger has been beaten plenty of times be Mes who simply disable one of my touch skills.

People need to learn to Counter, and Touch Rangers are easy to counter if you come ready. I love using my Cripshot Ranger against them for example ^^

I dont think that Touchers are overpowered (read my past posts) but im sick of all this arguing. So how about a proposal to change something to satisfy some people?
-----------------------
Proposal
Add a new category of skills called Lifestealing. Vampiric weapons would be categorized as Lifestealing as well. This way we can differentiate from Physical, Elemental, and Lifesteal damage.

Affected Skills
Vampiric Bite: Lifestealing Skill
Vampiric Touch: Lifestealing Skill

Lifestealing skills cost the same to a Necromancer (nothing changes for necros, they are unaffected) but only receive HALF the affect of expertise (Just like how Ritualist spirits give only half the affect of Soul Reaping).

Vampiric Gaze: Lifestealing Spell

Still a spell, still backfired, etc.

Desired Effect
This would tone down the power of the touch ranger skills without competely nerfing them to death.

At 16 Expertise, a ranger can use Vampiric Touch for the cost of 10 energy (i think...)

------------------
so? can we behave now and not fight? (except in RA, TA, GvG, HA, and AB)

i dont think this would work besides they will nerfe more the necro class an not the ranger.

I think it is a awsome build for your info i dont have a touch ranger. But the idea od nefing the touch is like refin the necro more than what they did already and that sucks.

/signed

Something must be done to touch rangers, if they are underpowered like all you touch rangers above say they are, then why is 60-70% of alliance battle players touch rangers? Alliance battles have become Touch Ranger battles, it sucks.

They must all think they have advantage or there wouldnt be so god dam many of em.

I think being able to stop those attacks with blind is a great idea, if a warrior cant hit you with a big fat hammer, sword, or axe when right in front of players then i think the same should be done to them.

cant nerfed them cuz if they do they will nefed the necro class