[Petition] Remove faction reward for the losing side in Aspenwood

If leechers dont violate user argeement, thats fine with me, but ANet have to understand that they piss off many players who honestly trying to play the game. I been playin all day today end every game we got 1-2 leechers on our team.
Seriously, I like this mission type alot, but when I respawn and see the same guy still standing there it make me want to quit (which I often do). I wouldnt mind if they would go into mossion solo and keep farming it like 55 bots, but they also ruin the game for other people.

Solution: plain and simple! No reward for loosing side.

Or better yet: increase reward for winning side and make loosing side actually lose faction regardless of wherever you afk/quit/dropped.

/unsign

That would make Fort Aspenwood fction gain worse than it already is.

how so?

/not signed

All this does is punish the people on the losing side who actually were trying, not the people who just sit there.

wow.. that's a really stupid idea.

Extremely bad idea.
There are much better ways to resolve this issue.
This is not one of them.
/not signed

maybe remove faction rewards from people who never are killed and never kill anything.

I say that both are needed, because Monks dont always kill things, but every player is usually killed atleast once in the mission.

Or just make sure people are moving/attacking in order to recieve faction. Even if its a bot...at least they are doing something.

people who just sit there already punish those who were trying. On the other hand this isnt really a PvE mission where if you lose you just start over again. In PvP loss supposed to punish.
So before I start assuming that you are just one of those leechers trying to protect your free source of faction, give it a though before calling idea stupid.

give me one? And please explain how my idea is bad.

If people don't win and get a runner up prize, they will not want to go back. The replayable part of that mission is that even if you lose, you still get faction.

I would not play Aspenwood at all if I did not receive faction if I lost.

Plus, if you lose, you don't get the automatic 400 faction anymore.

/unsigned

Nobody would play Alliance battles if that happened, PvE is already a more consistent way to get faction as it.

ummm pardon me but is the WIN is the whole point of this? Why should you ever get something for being a loser?
I mean all I hear so far is "people want this... people like that...". People are stupid and lazy, ok? People always want everything, perfect and now. Thats why bots and leechers exist. This IS the ultimate source of the problem that you don't have to try and push yourself to get what you want.
The fact that time/faction wise Aspenwood may become highly inefficient is a totaly different issue, which can be easily addressed by increasing reward for victory only. THIS ISN'T THE POINT! The point is that those who do not play this game should not get any reward.
And fixes like making sure that person moved/died/killed during the game simply do NOT address it. If you can make simple bot to click on "enter mission" button you may aswell make you character move or run into enemy group and die. Fixes like that only slightly increasy complexity, but do not solve the problem.

/signed
Earn that faction.

I dont understand you. You opponents are people, not silly mobs that you can farm. Why would you expect the reward to be consistant? How does this make any sense?
If you good, you will win alot. If you not good you will win much less. If you dont play you will win nothing. Plain and simple. Thus those who good will stick with pvp and win alot, those who not good will stick to pve and win much less but consistant, and others will quit.

Yes, let's give people more of a reason to quit the moment they think they won't win.

Your suggestion would drive even more people away from Alliance battles.

Fort Aspenwood is a PvP mission exclusive to PvE characters. Let's consider that one of the driving forces behind people playing it is to get faction. If Alliance battles become an even more undesirable method of getting Kurzick/Luxon faction, even less people will bother playing it.

Less people playing it, less games.

PvE focused players won't bother because there will be far better ways to get faction. PvP focused players won't bother because there will be far better ways to get a game going in other avenues of PvP. Those that provide them with Balthazar Faction, Rank, or Guild standing I might add.

Your way encourages rage quitters. If a player sees they will lose, they will just rage quit and try again, and hope for a winning team. Rage quitting is a huge problem and would only get worse if you stop awarding faction to the losing team.

If this actually happened, you would only get rage quitters too numerous to even mention. So, no, just no.

I still don't see the problem. Are you all saying that people who like to ragequit for silly reasons deserve faction?

Why?

Right...let's encourage overcompetitiveness and the same stale-arse tactics that make Hero's Ascent unplayable to the masses. Reward only winners, and only winners will play. And when only winners play, you get a miniscule handful of overly-competitive people dominating a feature supposedly for everyone.

Keep Faction rewards for trying. Ragequitting will erupt tenfold and the thing will basically fall apart if you don't.

I ALREADY quit when I see afks after timer ran out. Team is ALREADY very likely to lose if there are leechers involved. Everything you saying is old news. Otherwise how what you describe different from RA or HA?

Also what is the problem with quitting? It's not like you deny opposing team victory they deserved. It's not like you gain something by not staying to the end. If you don't want to win, nobody can make you, but it doesn't mean you should still get a reward.

Hey ira, saw you playing in aspenwood today. Anyway, it is a nice idea and all, but something tells me it would piss off a ton of players, especially the legit ones. That's just my two cents, I am not gonna be rude like I see alot of other people, I am just going to give my two cents, and say not signed.

/Not Signed.

Why are you so threatened by competitiveness? Last I checked, GW was a CORPG. Guess what the C stands for.

Faction:
It doesn't say winning for the Kurzicks, it says aiding. Participating in a competitive mission (which is PvE, not PvP) is aiding and thus earns you faction, regardless of whether you win or lose. It's the same with alliance battles.

The "no reward for the losing side" doesn't cut it, as AFK/bot players have existed long before Factions was released, in that cesspool we all know as Random Arenas. Real players are hurt because they're only on so many hours a day and so they end their day with less faction in their pocket. For an AFKer/bot though, they'll be on 24/7 and can wait for as long as they need to to get faction. To them, time isn't a concern because there will always eventually be winners and they will get faction regardless. Removing the faction from losses only affects global faction earning rates, it does nothing to eliminate the problem of AFKers and bots at all.

People who stick around under the current system and try are given faction, as opposed to people who leave early who don't get anything. Under Ira Blink's proposal, people who stick around and people who ragequit earn the same thing - nothing. In fact, if you lost faction for losses people would be even more eager to quit early (which has no fair solution). So why bother trying and wasting time when you can just quit and enter until you get a godly team, or do the far more boring but more rewarding challenge missions and quests?

@Sanji: alliance battles are 12v12. Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are "competitive missions" as Anet puts it.

I can actualy see this.... If they make it so that every time you win you get 2,500 Faction.... Or atleas Triple what it currently is at Otherwise no.

Because there are times when you look like your going to lose, but manage to pull through. If you dont award faction, and your team looks likely to lose, people drop and you are gaurenteed to lose. If you do award faction, the rage quitter stays and helps you to at least gain more factin that you could if he was gone.

Sure, the quitter doesn't really deserve to win. But the other people on his team dont deserve to lose out simply because of 1 person.

*sigh*
I'll explain once again for bilateralrope and Savio. The problem you describing ALREADY exists. Regardless of wherever someone have quit or afk'd whole thing you ALREADY very likely to lose. The thing I dont understand is why one leecher is ok, while one quitter is autolose?

wth are you talkin about? Ofcourse it has fair solution. Game can simply calculate faction for every player after game ended and not at the point they quit. That is already given that penalty is non-static, which it doesnt have to be. Say if your team won - you'd get 1000 faction. If your team lost - you lose 300. If you have quit before game eneded - you still lose 300 regardless. Easy!
I honestly don't understand your attitude towards this issue. It's like you intentionally trying to overcomplicate everything I say.

Yes, the ragequitters already exist. But if they didn't get faction if they stayed, there would be even more ragequitters.

Also, say you lose faction for each loss. What happens when you reach 0 faction ?

Because I can and have won with people leaving and AFK. Your claim is utter nonsense.

I've disconnected several times during Fort Aspenwood. Do I or anyone else who's had lag issues deserve to lose faction because of circumstances beyond our control? Notice how there never has been a penalty for leavers so far? It's an issue Anet either cannot change or deliberately does not change.

What I don't get is what you are trying to propose. You say you want to cut down on bots and AFKers, but all you've proposed is to make it more cuthroat and competitive. Will it cut down on people who AFK? Not a bit, as the bots keep joining games all day and could care less if there's the occasional loss or ten. Will it drive off a lot of people who enjoy doing this mission? You can bet it'll become a ghost town the second that's implemented. "Let's get rid of the bots by driving away their teammates who help them to get free faction!"

The C in CORPG doesn't mean competitive, it means Cooperative or Co-op for short with the O.

Its actually competative/cooperative. its both.

check page 112 of you Guild Wars: Factions Manuscripts.

err what? o...k I might be missing something here, but isn't team with one afk = 7 people and team with one quitter = still 7 people? Wth are you talking about anyway?


yes, that is the basic nature of pvp in any game out there. You can not play the game if you disconnected, thus you lose. If you getting disconnected too often to make serious impact on you faction, then you should just quit playing and pissing off your possible teammates.

well maybe thats exactly what the problem is? People are encouraged to be losers by not having penalties for loss.
You think it is only pvp problem? It is the same in pve. You can't imagine how many people I saw who have been to various high level areas maybe hundreds of times and still haven't learn basic things like aggro control, energy management etc. Why? Because when they fail, they just blame the noob team and start over instead of learning something.

What I don't get is how it should drive anyone off? I mean I hope you don't think I win all the time or never quit myself when I see afkers, yet I don't have any problems with what I'm suggesting.

/unsigned

This is PvP play that I, as a usually exclusive PvE'r, truly enjoy. Why this desire to make something so utterly "win" or "lose"? Either way, everyone is playing for the same amount of time.

If the leechers are the problem, then ask for a new solution, such as auto-boot after so much time of not using a skill, or something along those lines. Penalizing other people who participate, because of 1 or 2, is one good and solid way to make a whole lot of PvE'ers stop giving PvP a chance.

this is exactly a pve mindset I'm talking about: "I spend this much time on game, so the game is obligated to give me this much back". I'm sorry, you are dead wrong. This might work when you farm ettins, but in Aspenwood you dont fight the game, you fight real people on the other side, and they do not owe you anything.

I'm pretty sure I already explained why this doen't work. Please bother to read something beside first post next time. And as the time goes by this problem will only be getting worse. The only real solution is to make losing unprofitable.

If you want to play PvP, play GvG or even Arenas/HA. Leave this alone.

/un-signed

fine then, it only means that I will continue leaving the game if I see afks at start.

If we want the afker problem to go away or at least lessen, the we need Anet to understand, faction farming is not fun.
The dull, game play of Factions is what is causing this to happen. Anet wants the players to play these missions cause, quite frankly, that's all there is after the game is over... well, those or the repeatable quests which are terribly boring after doing them about five times.
If Anet were to add better quests with better rewards on the PvE side then the afkers would go down. However, that would defeat Anet's desire to have more people playing these missions.
So, the only way to win for the players is to lessen the amount of faction needed for armor/town control. As we all know, players will take the road of least resistance while trying to get what they desire. And Anet can't really adjust the town control unless it is allowed shared ownership... we are in the same faction (Luxon vs Kurzick).
Anet's odd nerf* on the 19th worsened the afkers a great deal because now finding a group is a must for gaining faction. Some people will say "Lfg" only so many times before they get bored and grab henchies. Henchies don't cut it for faction farming (time over skill these days is name of the game, so faster is better). No groups, players head to the missions and since they don't like PvP or feel they can't win, they afk it.

People here are correct in saying by removing the points for the losing side will only further discourage other from even trying it (time over skill these days).

*The nerf was odd as it came before real fixes were put in place. The nerf slowed the faction gain for everyone, not just the big alliances. Therefore, the small alliances still have the same chance at out farming the larger ones. The only thing the nerf accoplished is to slow down the rate at which people gained their faction based armor... which is odd because Chapter 3 is only 5 months away and the armor we are getting now will likely be replaced.

Unfortunatly, due to the broken system at play here, those people afking wont care. They are there to lose and get fast faction points. Again the time over skill at play shows up.
It is in my opinion that once Anet stops trying to push PvP on PvEers or stops rewarding PvEers for playing in PvP games, those that enjoy PvP games will have a less corrupted gaming experience.
There will be fewer people playing those, but at least it will be those that are wanting to play it and not farm it.
It sounds like you are playing the PvP game to win (which I would assume is the way it is meant to be played), but those afkers are there with a different goal in mind.

WasAGuest, you call everything a nerf. When you do that, you truly take away from the word it's true meaning. Simply tweaking and adjusting is not nerfing. Balancing is not nerfing. Please, please, learn to distinguish between them. (Please do not claim you already do. All you call things are 'nerfs.')