Petition to seperate PvP from PvE

It seems there is an animosity between PvP and PvE players that is increasing since the release of Factions. I know there are many of you who enjoy both aspects of the game, but there are those that lean more towards one style and have a disregard for the other.

There was always a conflict between the two sides (factions?) in Prophecies. That conflict has greatly increased in Factions now that Anet has tried to push us all closer together. I am hoping that Anet sees the error of their ways and, in future chapters, will seperate PvP and PvE so we can all enjoy the aspects of the game we prefer without further increasing the conflicts, flaming and name calling.

Please. No flames or attacks. Let's just discuss this suggestion in a peaceful manner, so we can all enjoy this game in our own way.

Peace.

/Not Signed

Anet is trying to heal the rift with factions, if it workes or made it worse is still yet to be seen. They gave ability via quest to earn faction points so an all PvE guild or mixed PvE/PvP guild could take a city so you can avoid the 12x12 battles.

I personally don't think they should try and split it. I think the biggest issue when you only play a specific way, any changes that affect you in a negative way cause's the hate / strife not seeing the big picture on how it helps the game as a whole. That is not to say Anet has made some mistakes but Anet also responds. I would give Factions some more time, look how many changes C1 did before it get refined to what it is today.

/signed

i hate pvp and i dont feel the need to be forced into it or have it influence so heavily the way pve is played

well as it is now and always has been they have always had special things for pvp. now don t get me wrong if you can come up with a build for pvp and do good you deserve whatever benefit you get from pvp. but here is the problem that most people have. they say well i don t have rank so it is no fair to me. well in some ways this is true but you can still pvp. just like pvp people can pve. so to seperate them i think you would be asking for something that is already around now. you do not have to 12v12 to get faction. yes it is a easy way to get it but you do not need it. now you say well i am only in a guild with 20 people. well no offense but you will never own a town no matter how much 12v12 you do lol. so factions for you would be used for jade and stuff. and if you are mad at that then it is not a pvp-pve problem you are just greedy that you cannot get enough faction w/o pvp so that you can make a ton of money. so unless you would like to see a all pvp game or a all pve game there will never be a seperation of pvp and pve.

I do not mean any disrespect for any of you out there, although i will be flamed for saying this anyway...
Giuld Wars is a PvP game, whether you want it to be or not. They balance skills based on PvP abuse (and 1% of the time on farming abuse). PvE is just an introduction, and should not be kept that seperate.

I started this game as a PvE'er, and a few months into it, started hardcore PvPing, and now I do both, and enjoy both almost equally (most pve players have no clue at all about how combat works). Without combining the 2, I would probably still be rank 0 (not like it's any different from rank 12).

I'm all for completely seperating the two aspects of the game. I'll mention why, and I'll mention why I don't think Anet will or can do it though.

First, the Why:

PvE and PvP players have completely different goals when they play. One side plays for ego, the other more for vanity and then some both. I'll leave it to you all to descide which is which. Now, ego and vanity are not bad things when game playing, they are a part of the fun. The two playstyles do not mix well at all when attempting to reach their seperate goals.
We can see a rather heated debate going on in several threads about "leechers" and "afkers" going on right now. Well, those "leechers" and "afkers" are just PvEers using the fastest, easiest way they can to get what they are after. If Anet were to not allow rewards (or lessen) for these missions, the PvEers would leave them alone. Of course, this would not be completely fair to the PvPers in those missions. So we have the clashing now.
There's no fix. Sorry, there isn't. Anet can band aid it all they want, but it will never go away. They can add a "kick" system as requested by some and we will find that abused as bigger groups of "leechers" head to those missions and begin to kick out of spite for being kicked and eventually you'll have those missions ruined. You can remove the rewards, but again, that's not really fair. The only way to stop this type of behavior is to seperate the two completely and unlink them 100%. No Favor system. No Rewards for PvE in PvP and vice versa.

Another reason why I support the idea is the quality of the game type suffers from mixing the two. With all the effort put in place to make the two game types come together, the over all game suffered a great deal. Don't agree?, that's fine. We are all entitled to our opinions, but I feel Factions could have been 100 times better if less emphasis was put on bringing the two types together. We probably would have had more and better quests/missions for PvE and the PvP side could have had some newly created, maybe even ground breaking competition style games.

Major upsets, is another reason. The second Anet shows any favor to one of the playstyles and not the other, these boards lite up in flames. Players get ticked off fast. If Anet rewards the PvP mini games in Factions more rewards, then the time playing the other quests and missions is not worth the same, thus the players feel forced to play them. It's the same situation we had with the Luxon Supply run and Kurzick Duel Farm. The other quests were pretty much ignored once players learned these because doing anything else was more time consuming and not worth the effort. At this point, the PvPers wanting to play Jade/Aspen were feeling their gaming choices were not worth it cause the rewards were not on par with the other. As I often do, I mention a possible fix, support it if you like: Here

Why Anet can't seperate the two completely:

This is purely theory on my part.

Anet has a 1 year dev cycle for each chapter. Most PvE or RPGs take longer than that to make. The fact they are able to do a release in that matter still impresses me. PvE content takes much longer to make and release. PvP content is the players. The devs provide the playground and toys and they are done. So, by attempting to bring the two playstyles closer, Anet seems to understand they can release on schedule with a much smaller game world with PvE lite content "if" the PvEers can get hooked into the PvP mini games. This is not said as a bad thing or idea, if it did work, Anet would be right on. However, many people can not stand the competition for various reasons. Personally, I do not enjoy (actually, I despise) the PvP game "feel". It's rushed and I'm rushed all day. I like to log in, have a relaxing time with friends. The PvP games could close down and it would be a month before I noticed for that matter. That said, Anet has, IMO, missed it's target in thinking more people would actually play these PvP mini games. The PvEers seem more opt to just sit there (as I said they would upon seeing the FPE) and soak up the rewards... hey, I'm an old man still playing these games, I've seen the way people behave and watched them for years smash in Pong arcade systems when they lost.

/signed for completely seperating the two play styles so we can have a richer experience on both poles of the game. Don't think it will happen, but I can always hope. I can also hope Chapter 3 isn't built in a "conflict" (PvP) heavy way. I can also hope that Chapter 4 (since the Factions team is working on that) stays away from this type of play, maybe they learned enough to know the two do not mix well... on either side.

Bingo you just said the biggest problem right there. You really are ruining the whole idea that this war affects the gameplay and such. I enjoy both sides and it gives me addvantages over people who do just one.

Also if Anet forced everyone to do both there wouldn't be any PvEers and PvPer now would there.

Please just keep it the way it is.

/not signed

No Flame actually - In the Radio Interview with Jeff (co-founder of Anet). He stated GW started as an RPG/Pve game with PvP added in (at it's heart was an RPG), they asked which came 1st but he goes on to say that BOTH are now very important PvE and PvP and they take great care to not neglect either one. The oringal set up was to go through via PvE then move on to Pvp to keep you in the game. Aka GW is BOTH now so the chicken / egg arugment has no merit anymore IMO.

/notsigned.

I PvP with my PvE characters rather often. I wouldn't want to have to choose one or the other (I'd choose PvE btw, but still). Plus, I don't know how you would completely seperate them, other than releasing two entirely separate games.

/signed

Remove the rewards for PvP play from affecting the PvE environment. Let the players who want to affect the PvE environment do so on their own - by playing the RPG aspect of the game.

/notsigned

One thing that people always say is theyre being forced to PvP - ur not if u want to faction farm do the supply run! if you want to try something different go for the PvP side. Im in a guild with a lot of new players that wont get in a PvP team apart from random arenas because they get called "noobs" when their not with the guild. The quests have let them try a different side of the game which most seem to have enjoyed.

Also its nice to have a fight for some objectives rather then just seeing what winning streak u can get for Balthasaar faction to spend on all the stuff ive already unlocked by PvE

Reward's earned in PvE should not affect PvP and vise vers.
Then you really have the freedom of choise, you can still do PvP with your PvE toon but any rewards earnd during PvP does not count towards any PvE titels or Favor like system. And make factions earnd during missions and quests only count towards alliance goals, jade and amber can be made to drop insted of being exchanged for factions.


/not signed But I still do not want to PvP

/not signed

I enjoy that you need to pvp to enjoy certain special areas. PvP in this game is very fun compared to the mind numbingly boring pve aspects. The proposed split says nothing of what will happen with FoW/UW, Faction Points, Skill Unlocks, etc. That by itself makes this unsignable.

At some point pve players gotta stop and realize this is a brilliant pvp game and stop repeating the same content and try something that makes them think just a tad. If the want to play FoW/UW or get factions rewards they need to pvp. I am not for unearned rewards for those unwilling to try pvp. I respect the opinion of those that hate pvp but I completely disagree with them on the view.

*slaps the guy who insulted PvE (boring my foot)*

*slaps the guy who insulted PvP (boring my foot)*

It's good to have both sides in a game. And besides, PvP areas are few and far between.

Said with respect, and in no way a flame. I enjoy your post cause it is the opposite (almost complete opposite of my view point). I find the PvP rushed, and to me, is dull. See target, spike target, rinse repeat.
I also feel that Anet needs to stop and realize there is potential for an even better PvE game and PvP game if they would stop spending resources on force feeding competition and merging the two styles.
By unlinking the two aspects completely, Anet would allow for each side to play as they desire. By unlinking, no one is saying do away with or limit the play. People would still be able to take the PvE characters to Battle Isle and play all they want. They could still enter arenas and play. What is meant by unlinking is that players are not wanting one side (and currently only one side) determining when and where the other can access. FoW was mentioned, and this is exactly what a great deal of people see as a problem. This has been a long standing debate and has been beaten to death as neither side understands the reasons (or even cares as is often the case) for the other point of view.
The most frustrating to most players is the fact that only the PvE gaming is limited and restricted by the PvP game. We could light a match to this thread and say "PvP matches should only be accessable after the player has completed the Titan Missions and the player only has 4 hours after that to compete". That solves nothing though and further irritates the issue.
That is why many want the two unlinked. It in no way restricts the players from playing what they want, it only removes the restrictions that are in place.
I've seen tons of arguments against removing favor and unlinking the two game styles, but I have yet to see a single one that would add respect or consern to a PvEer. Factions has tried to do that, but has failed*. I still do not care about the PvP game/titles or anything else PvP related... in fact, I see even less a reason to PvP with the addition of Factions. I believe this is due to PvP being Faction vs Faction (luxon vs kurzick) and the PvE being Alliance vs Alliance (bickering over Elite Missions)... if that info is incorrect, it would show even further how little the PvP meta game means to the Factions system.

I know saying "failed" is pretty bold, but one only has to look in the forums and see the arguments between the PvP and PvE crowd currently going on. They arguments are even more intense then they were pre-Factions.

*rubs face* Ouch. lol

You know sometimes you get home from work and want to relax, been thinking all day on Important matters, matters that concern ppl's lively hood other peopls invested money and so on. Then go and do PvP so I can think a bit more while I get verbally abused by some preteen because his mamma pissed him off, or my attiention wanderd a tad, No thx I prefer PvE, where I can turn off chat channel and play the game.

I don't mind pvp players being around. But as a rpg player i would like to see anet keep it promise of a good rpg. I would also like to see all the cool stuff for rpg. I don't want to see ideas throwen out because of pvp. I also don't want to see the skill rate change. If the pvp player want all there skills then give to them. let the rpg players get all the cool projects. I don't want force pvp on me as rpg player. I don't want a hack and slash game, I want real rp.

I have played pvp, I just don't find it fun. there is no real large scale battles and there is no mounts. The only thing fun I like in pvp is the cats. !2 vs 12 is ok.

/Not signed

/reverse petition

Integrate PVP and PVE more. Make a super rare armors set that requires Balthazar Faction.

Seriously. if you stay with just PvP or PvE, you are seriously lessening the full possibilities of this game.

dont care about pvp more than a few minutes of random arena per month

BUT players should NEVER be forced into it (ex: factions pts )

Seriously why not have NC-Soft close down A-Net straight away.
If you read the threads here on Guru you must have realiste by now that a big part of players prefere one form of the game and not the other and do not like beeing forced to enjoy the other ,pve to pvp or pvp to pve. This is not school where you have to do what your told.
GW is a game ppl love and they are making suggestions hoping to improve the game not kill it.
Neither side would standfor more integration, and if too many ppl leave the game, it's over, finito, goodbye THE END

I appreciate all the feedback, and the fact that so far this remains civil. I am enjoying reading all the diverse opinions. But let me clarify. I'm not asking for a seperation in the sense that you either do one or the other. I know enough players enjoy doing both and want to keep that diversity. But as some have stated there is too strong a link between the two which tends to cause a riff between the hardcore and the casual players. "Bob" may want to come home from work (school) and unwind by going head to head with others, while "Joe" just wants to relax and do some casual problem solving. Why can't we have both without requiring the two to overlap so much. And Anet has stated that they intended to integrate PvP and PvE more in Factions. Result so far is the increased animosity seen on this, and other forums.

{Edited for spelling}

Im VERY well aware of the massive rift between the PvP players and the PvE players. -.-

Personal preference aside, i believe that keeping PvP and PvE seperate will only WIDEN the gap between the two player types and force more animosity and bias. Both player types NEED to understand each other, and you cant learn about another kind of person by staying far far far away. The two communities need to get up close and personal and learn from each other.

The WaW system is an example of how PvE and PvP are linked. However this is flawed because it is a ONE WAY relationship.

I dislike playing a game with such a divided community. In factions, we are divide via factions, but PvP is still PvP and PvE is still PvE, regardless of faction.

I HATE people who only choose to play one side or another and refuse to give the other playing style another shot. Seriously PvP is fun. Defeating a real person in a good match is very satisfying and heart racing. PvE is also massively fun. I love the grind. I love treasure hunting. I love exploring and capping skills.

Anet's idea of making the community whole is fine, its just their way of doing it is flawed.

another flame by our wonderfull friend here at walmart. instead of just saying do not come into pvp why not give a reason why a pve player should not or actually say something about this guys thread other then just flaming every post you answer.

The way things are now is mostly perfect. People can do whichever they like, or both, and avoid what they dislike. I was worried that Factions was going to force PVE'ers to PVP, but thankfully it didn't.

The sole exception to this is the favor of the gods system. When and if they make a way for PVE'ers to access the gods' realms without PVPing, I'll be 100% satisfied.

Umm actually the kurz/lux faction that you get is worthless to people who only pvp. These rewards are only useful for rpg characters. The only people who farm it are the ones who actually enjoy the format, and the hybrid(pvp+pve) players.

I enjoy both sides and would like to see them brought closer together. I'd like to be able to use this faction for something besides fancy armor, or control of a town (which my small guild could never even hope for).

The problem isn't that PvE and PvP are integrated. The problem is that PvE and PvP are -poorly- integrated.

No matter how extremist bluster and seethe about their "mode" of Guild Wars on the forums, figuring a way to build positive and fun synergy between PvE and PvP would without a doubt be better for the game.

As for the identity of the afks, and leechers in faction - i thinks its bad apples from both "sides" rather than one, and as both the "purist" PvP & PvE still can and avoid each other it isnt that much of a problem.

In faction, its mostly PVE that has been forced doing PvP, rather than the opposite (not counting PvP tutorial island and Heroes Ascent). In prophesies a little PVP was mandatory for PvE (the transition between Pre and Post).

Then there are those PVPs that like doing the PVEs PVP arenas, rushing their lowlevel characters with droknar armor for battles in Ascalon Arena, and skipping the rest.

The PVEP missions isnt mandatory, and can easily be skipped for those who dont like it. There are other ways of getting faction, than PVP after all

-I Personally as a PVE are more disturbed by the Coop missions; in short.
Having the success (or failure rest upon ones shoulder) for the mission, due to an unknown party that I have no option of affecting or communicating with.

For example
dying shortly after starting the mission because the Local people couldnt adequatly defend Master Togu, before the foreign "cavalry" to appear. Most often a sad assasin, that didnt get an party invitation -and thus decided to hench it.

QFT! This is my exact sentiments! >.<

I want all PvP and PvE to be one happy family, acknowledging each other as part of the same game community.

I think the new Title system will help with much of the internal discord. I too would like the community more united, even if theres a fraction between Luxons and Kursicks factions.

"we should not be enemies, the things that unite us are greater than the things that seperate us"

I do mostly PVE, but does occasionally PVP

Can the OP be a bit more clear no how he (or she?) wants to "seperate" the 2 sides?

The favour for UW/FoW system is the only thing really affecting anybody, and there have been enough posts about that in the past. Everything is entirely OPTIONAL to the PvE'r. Whereas PvP'ers who want to become and remain competetive, absolutely requires a PvE char, but that is for another thread.

I agree with this. I don't want bickering back and forth either. But, this will never happen unless Anet unlinks the two sides from (and here's the key) being reliant or bound to each other. Why? Not everyone enjoys the PvP game, no matter how good it is, no matter how many ways it's told "You should try it, I love it!"... it will never matter. In fact, the more Anet and players attempt to shove PvP at the PvEers, the more hostile the situation will become. This is true with PvP players the second someone mentions all HoH battles will be locked untill each member has completed the Titan Quests (or whatever the choice of the week is).
One side should never and I mean never have to play one play style to gain access to an area they want to get into. Is this the current case? Some will say yes. Keep reading and you will find it's not 100% true.
The Elite Missions are gained via faction farming. Farming being amoung the more boring eye bleeding forms of game play one can think of (to me anyway). Only the largest alliances have a chance at "earning" their way there. And in this case, "earning" is used lightly as it's just time spent ala repetition.
FoW and UW. Only way to "earn" or gain access to them is via PvP. Sorry, there's no other way. PvE content is 100% blocked unless the region you are in has won HoH via PvP.
This spite we have now is thanks to that Favor system and the unforgiving nature of the PvPers saying "don't change favor, just go win HoH and you'll have access". Then the spite grows when the repeatable quests in PvE are changed and the PvP mini games "seem" the only real option of gaining faction at a reasonable time frame (or the ever notorious leeching and afkers way of doing it). When the PvEers ask for a change to make the repeatable quests better, more rewarding and more challenging, we are told to go play AB, join in Jade/Aspen and "learn" to love the PvP game that they love. WTH?

Please read the post completely and carefully. You will find that a great deal of it as "feelings" and "seems like" opinions. I bring this up, because we are all people and what we feel and what seems to be, often is in each persons mind... no matter how far fetched it might seem to one person, it's reality to another... like PvP being fun... far fetched opinion to me, but reality to others.

PvP has never blocked anything vital for PvE. Nobody needs to go to the FoW or UW to beat or enjoy the majority of the game. The same applies to the Elite Missions in Factions. You don't have to PvP to get the 10K Faction to progress through the Cantha storyline

The same can't be said about PvE. When Guild Wars first came out, there was no other way to get skills and runes other than playing through PvE. They had introduced Factions later on, but it wasn't nearly enough, the gains were far too slow initially. Even now, it's far too impractical to unlock most things with faction.

The resentment and catty quips go both ways. Many PvPers say what they do because of crap like "No, you need to earn it like everyone else!" when they asked Anet for a fix when it came to the skill grind.

It's nowhere near as one-sided as many would like to believe, both extremes have their issues and both are at fault for the snarkiness and forum drama.

Though a great deal of blame lies in Anet for being so clusmy and heavy handed in trying to combine PvE and PvP. Splitting them apart isn't going to fix anything. The only possible solution is to both admit and learn from their mistakes.

/signed

PvP should NOT have any aspect on PvE. it's just poor thinking by Anet. Yes it does help balance things between PvE and PvP by means of favor and access to UW and FoW, but is stupid that PvP players control this for the people that only PvE.

95% of my Guild is PvE and the other 5% is PvE and PvP that do more equal amounts of PvE and PvP.. But why should we not have access to what we like to do because America doesn't have Favor... If we want to do UW/FoW we should be able to..

Currently PvP Controls PvE Aspects like FoW/UW, but does PvE control if you can get into Team Areans? NO. They should be 2 completly diffrent parts of the game.

I have PvE'd about 95% of my Accounts lifespan, I hate PvP in every Aspect in this game. (I love PvP in all other games i've played, just don't enjoy it in this game) But i don't see why we have the system how it is right now. its stupid that PvP controls PvE but PvE doesn't control any part of PvP.

Well said Replicant.

/signed

Vital is a matter of opinion. Thanks to the lack of end game stuff in Chapter 1, one could argue that FoW/UW is vital to the end game and is part of the fun. I also said that what I posted was based off of a personal opinion, therefore to me (and probably others) access should be allowed.

And it was changed to some point. So why the battling to not have it changed for PvE?
See, this is the reason the bickering remains. It's not allowed by the player base to even be fair. It was changed for PvP to some extent yet the second someone asks for a change for PvE, it's "No - go earn it"... yet, that's what we (PvEers) keep asking for. A way to earn it via PvE. We don't want to go to HoH to PvP to open something, we want something in PvE to open those areas. What's so hard to understand about that?
By unlinking the two game styles, we are only enhancing the game play for each; rather than having a thin, pitiful mix between the two.

I agree with the rest of your post though, Anet just needs to see the mistake and fix them... which is of course what this thread is about. The request to fix via unlinking the two.

I would like to think that we can all get along, but it doesn't seem like it is possible. Just discussing one possible option, although it may be somewhat extreme and I am already sensing the hostile vibes. I prefer one style of play. I have nothing against those that prefer the other style. I would like to see a continued discussion without rehashing old arguments and with everyone trying to remain calm. So far, so good.

Somewhere way up in the post someone asked just what I had in mind about seperating PvE from PvP. I was intentionally vague, allowing the members of this forum to put forth their ideas on how to best accomplish that task. I don't have answers, only a suggestion.

I would personally like to hear the complaints of the PvE side of this. The only ones that should be complaining are the PvPers because we are forced to go through hours and hours of PvE for skills and weapon unlocks as well as superior characters (with the ability of weapon and armor swapping). This is the arguement for UAX, yet it has not been granted, forcing every PvP player to play immense and unwanted amounts of PvE. There is faction, but realistically, PvE is still much faster if one desires to achieve UAX and PvE characters need to be used for armor swapping. On the PvE side, one NEVER needs to enter a PvP arena if they so desire. Factions and unlocks are pointless because all they are good for is unlocks for PvP characters and so one would not need those. Alliance battles and the rest of the nonsense are unnecessary as one can go through the game even more easily through PvE. Play through the game, play through the game again, play through the game again, farm, play through the game again, farm, and repeat. There is no PvP necessary or involved. Now what needs to be removed?

Perhaps I am missing something, but from personal experience, all that I have seen is PvE interfering in PvP and not vice versa. Can someone please explain to me the arguement as to why PvP interferes at all with PvE because the simple idea of "just don't do it" should overrule it.

Thus, I do not want to repeat the UAX arguement yet again, but other than that, I fail to see what parts of PvP and PvE need to be separated.

/Not Signed

I enjoy the integration and I think it will be better for the community in the long run. Right now most players only don't play the opposite style simply because they have convinced that it is no fun. Of course these stubborn players will fight at first, but I think that in time people will adjust more and it will be a better style before. It is my belief that synergy between the two styles will increase overall quality of gameplay.

I'm actually okay with their integration. I would just like to see that they become 100% optional in future chapters. Someone who wants the pve mission title should in no way be required to pvp. Nor should they have to pvp to get 15k materials in reasonable time.

/Notsigned, but I somewhat agree

NO!!!

Integrated PvP and PvE is what makes GW stands out of all the other MMORPGs. It is what makes it unique!

/not signed