10 Reasons Why Monks Hate PUGs.

You would be surprised at the audacity that some players have when burning through a quest or mission. Those, I write off as kamikaze. Because I won't chase you down to keep you alive when the rest of the team is closer and needs help too.

And not to mention "OMG n00b monk", "heal me noob", will guarantee that I won't heal you out of spite.

One thing that I didn't see in that list, as prophecies goes, was... INFUSION. If you guys are planning to do a mission that requires ALL your armor to be infused, get infused first. There's nothing more annoying than seeing somebody's health drop faster than you can get a heal off on them. Then them saying "WTF healer!!", like it's my fault spectral agony is owning you so fast. I've been noticing alot more lately that people are just getting ran to all areas of the map, and have no idea what infusion is, or that it even matters. It sure does when your up against the mursaat and jades, and it has to be on every piece of armor. I will stop healing you if I know you're not infused, to keep the other team members alive. I remember starting off in Abbadon's mouth mission, and right away I said, "somebody isn't infused" and got a couple of replies back, one of them being "And your point is....?". Umm, GO GET INFUSED YA DUMMY!

Another thing is, warriors or rangers that are using 2 or more superior runes, or have armor that isn't suitable for the area. Having LA armor in THK isn't a good idea. Having 400 or less health isn't either, if you're suppose to be taking heavy damage. I remember trying to heal a warrior that had either both problems going on, or just a lot less health. It almost looked like I was trying to keep a 55 alive.

For some reason, I do not remember having to put up with excessive bullshit while playing on my monk. I remember having more good PUGs than bad PUGs (and I even remember having a few godly PUGs). The only way it was different from any other class was the demand; I enjoyed the ability to always find a group, no matter what the area or the hour.

While monking, I don't recall receiving many bad comments. Then again, I never sat on a high horse and I always did my job as best as possible, even if that meant running at 110% for 20 minutes straight. While I do agree that monking is a little more demanding than some other classes (not mentioning any names ), the ability to easily find a group was always worth the extra effort one had to put in.

The monk strike in THK (whenever that was) was a disgrace to the profession. Just stfu and do your job. It's amazing how stuck up some monks are, while you rarely find a mesmer this way (or any other class that has trouble finding a group, excluding assassins for the time being). And, since the addition of ritualists, it has now become an option to swap out a monk for a (or two, if you don't mind sacrificing some damage) ritualist, so monks shouldn't be as compulsory as before.

Well said. I would say that 8 is a great lesson for warriors regarding positioning near all caster classes, and 7 is a great lesson for both new warriors and new monks as well. Please, for the love of god, don't use rebirth except after battle or as a post retreat strategy in PvE.

I don't have ten off hand but I can think of a few,

Don't yell at me to heal you, if you need it you will get it, and if you spam... Well.. yeah..
I'll rez you when combat is over, if someone else wants to rez you now fine
I hate it when you say gogogogogogogogogogogogo, it tells me you like to rush which knocks you down a peg on my healing list
Stay with the rest of the group ^
My skill bar is fine thanks, move along


Thats most of the things that bother me, some advice for the other monks, don't listen to a word anyone in a pug says. Works great.

I really appreciate monks who pug............with my first character e/mo I learned this lesson ----the monk leaves and then I wound up healing the group with my orison and then rezing people who died because I was not a primary monk....as an ele I NEVER use rebirth (84 energy is hard to lose for one character at a time---thats a costly skill).
Then I made a monk.....and I really really appreciated what crap monks take in pugs......I try to heal everyone when I can, but yes as has been mentioned its hard to keep someone alive who is taking 200% damage every other second...and then complains when they die. I feel bad when someone dies on my watch, whether it was my fault or not. So I dont like to pug much (but seeing as I am part of a tiny guild ---some times I have little choices).....

so to all you primary monks...........thanks for all the heals!!!
And keep up the good work. (its hard watching those red bars go down and not getting to see whats going on in the battles, or if any of the loot is yours).

sorry double post due to the technical difficulties guru is having (they are getting a ton of mail from me if the info on that page is right and the white screen of nothing......10 times)

still really appreciate monks..........thanks guys (and gals)

wow that post is soo true... if only the PUG's i usally have to take understood it...


shame it wont all coppy and pastre into the chatbar.

I totally agree, but I do have to say that the times that I do monk with a PuG 95% of the monks know what they are doing. There are a few rare freak occassions, like last night the 2nd mo/me was using clumsiness and conjure phant. I don't understand why he/she wasn't just playing a mesmer.

I feel that if you are going to play a monk, you should 1. read up on builds 2. read up on energy managment 3. practice your new build with hench (remember you can have your tank hench run forward ahead of the group and tank by using ctrl, shift, space) or guildies and 4. play the class how every person out there thinks you are going to, healing the party. Monks shouldn't care about doing any sort of dmg to a monster and taking skills to help that not only spreads your attributes out unnecessarily, but is a total waste to your group.

What about the number one reason?

"WTF??!! No healing??!!"

actually i will refuse to join a group with anouther monk, unless its a 12v12 then i have no problem keeping a team alive, provided the team is competant (i.e no tanking necros)

Uhm... I hope you're constantly starting groups, because if all monks followed this only monks could start balanced groups.

I think you'd be surprised what a group of 6 warriors, 1 ranger and a monk could do.

I got a monk myself and i did all the prophecies stuff so i know how you feel, but when i play another profession myself i do notice that most monks are yerks because they are needed and they know it, they leave very fast and are always the first to leave.
But yea im feeling you, never had someone who wanted to sell me anything tho

just 2 thing

since im taking a elite energy management i like have a decent heal when its needed aka Heal other. no orison is not enough. maybe some faction skill but ,heal other is defenitly something to take in consideration.

while i like the free slot i always like rebirth . since im the one keeping the team up i know exactly when begin to run away becouse i know everone is going to die

to me it seems this was 4 or 5 reasons split up in different things to make a list of 10.

and while this will happen in some groups. not all pug's are bad.

i played a monk in some of the PvE, not that far yet, i'm trying to get the survivor title on my monk too, which is not an easy task.

and fyi, i have not left mid-battle yet.

edit: that said, i will refuse to heal warriors uding frenzy in PvE, there i no reason to make me heal you twice as often in PvE, in PvP, yes, but not in PvE

i usually bitch at pve monks for shitty healing because they have like heal/prot/smite/iway on their bar :/

Oh I like this one. Hum. Yes, just like that assassin in one of my last group who decided (because he was team leader) on his own volition to aggro 2 mobs which included a boss. Taking a lot of damage he decided to do the next best thing; bring them all to us and aggro a third mob. Sure, pile 'em on, I have unlimited mana to carefully tend to 7 party members being clobbered by a giant mob on all sides.

My 10 reasons i take hench instead of pugs.
1.assassins
2.assassins
3.assassins
4.assassins
5.assassins
6.assassins
7.assassins
8.assassins
9.assassins
10.assassins

Three things I'd like to add:

11. Anyone who screams "HEAL!" Especially when they've still got 80+ % of their health. One key to energy management for a monk is to not waste 5 or 10 points of energy for 30 or 40 points of health. (If I've got a sec when this is going on, I'll scream back "KILL" :P) )

12. Don't whine about the monk being out of energy when the group takes on too much aggro: More enemies = more damage = more healing required = more energy spent.

12. Don't forget the value of good prot monks! I was heal monking in a PUG one day and the Prot monk was awesome! Not one member of the party got below 75% health because of the damage reducing effects of this person's work. When it was all done everyone said "Great healing!" Sheesh - I didn't do much of anything.

1 - You never NEED two healers, it's just more convenient that way. There are numerous other builds that compliment a lone healers job and make it incredibly easier. Wards, Wells, Spirits, Nature Rituals, Shouts? Bueller? Anybody there?

2 - You don't NEED a specific skill/spell for energy management; the build I use runs 6 spells that all cost 5 energy, and a rez that costs 10. I have an empty spot on my skillbar, and have not found a single spell or skill to put in it yet (from either Prophecies or Factions) that improves the functionality of my build. I can't recall the last time I ran out of energy.

3 - Make your own build that you're comfortable using. I've never looked at a Monk build, and I've only been called a "noob monk" once. It was last week, when I switched my secondary to Assasin, equipped some daggers & attack skills, and went into RA with the intent of seeing if it pissed anyone off.

4 - As a new Monk, you shouldn't practice builds with Henchmen. Henchmen are not people, nor do they act/react as real players do. They are the worst possible way to test a build. If you're testing a new build, just make your group aware of it. If the build fails, restart and adjust accordingly. Eventually you'll find one that works, with people, rather than predictable and sloppy AI. Sure, some people may not have the patience to accept failure on the part of a Monk, but thems the breaks. Playing with real people, especially EXPERIENCED people, is not even remotely comparable to playing with henchies.

5 - If you have an empty space in your skill bar, as I do, then by all means take a pet.. but remember to keep it under control, and don't make it a priority to heal your pet over your teammates. If you die, your pet can't rez you, but your teammates can.

6 - FFS stay the hell out of the Tanks aggro circle. You, and everyone else (except the Tank, of course).

7 - Rangers are not the best class for pulling, nor should they ever actually have to pull with a bow if the Tank knows how to "tank". Please refer to #6. If these two simple rules are observed, you won't have to kite, run, hide, worry about excessive aggro, or waste energy healing someone who ultimately shouldn't need to be healed in the first place.

8 - If you're in the best position to call targets, then call them. Doesn't matter what your class is.

These rules all apply in a very general manner to every class. You don't need a MM and Nuker for every mission, or 2 monks, etc., and so on. There are so many primary/secondary class combinations that make such standard builds sub-par. One good healer does not require another healer to expend energy on the same group mates, performing the same task. In some instances, it does make it easier, but in most cases a Ritualist, Necro, Ele, or Protection Monk will perform much better than a second Healer.

The only thing I read in this thread that I can thoroughly agree with is the undesireable "gogogogogogo!" people. Impatience is the first sign of impending failure. I generally form my own groups (yep.. I'm a Monk that's not afraid of PUGS), and I'll warn once then kick a person if I feel their impatience could compromise the team.


P.S.
I'm not an Elitist. I don't believe my way is the only way to play. It works for me, and I'm not saying it'll work for everyone. No harm in putting it out there, though.

@Starting post

exactly why I quit monking, and turned to necroing and ranging.

Having the pressure of an entre team on your shoulders is one thing, but when you're trying as hard as you can and people start blaming you for not healing them, even though they are standing far away from the group, is another.

I really like monking, that is with guildies or any good group, but the rubbish that you get when playing in an unorganized group is just too much.

Respect for all people who continue monking despite all of this!!!!

Respect!

Some people are taking this thread way too seriously. It seems it was meant as a light hearted fun - not an elitist attitude. Most of the "top 10" can be applied to any class with some modification.

It spreads the wrong message.

Monks are not the be all or end all of a group.
If your group doesn't die etc. Its not always because of the monk. Good warriors for eg. can boost your caster armour to 130AL while still dishing out 100+ damage adren spikes. Eles can eles can halve the number of hits you get from melee etc...

I recall being in a pug where the monk had no condition or hex removal, used heal other and healing breeze as their only healing skills. Of course the party never died but that was due to a very competant war and rit.

If you find you are constantly running out of energy, you should look at your build. Cookie cutter builds are great if you know how to use them.


In PvP: silly war chases guardianed/PS'd monk, I chase silly war... ooo Crit ++ XD and frenzy w/o negative effects.

Hmmm, I play monk sometimes in PvE and I came up with my own build.
I'm still a big fat noob at it but I use signets+inspired hex or whatever is ok for energymanagement for what I'm about to do.

When I play warrior, I usually have no idea about what the hell is going on in the back of the team but I try to keep the required healing to a minimum.

But when I play monk I sometimes have the ability to see what other monks are doing and about 90% of them are crap.

They use heal breeze as a "quick heal".
Heal area is very common for them too, they don't notice it heals the enemy.
Healing touch.. they run off to follow the warrior who just agroed everything only to take away his aggro and die.

I like using the energy armours for monks but when other people drag monsters onto me and I die, it makes me look bad and eventually they'll congratulate the heal party/heal other spam monk.

A few days ago I was in a team and there was another monk and after the first mob he was like "NO RUSHING". "my energy is 1 of 46" (spammed *5)
We stopped and I stood around.
Next mob same thing.
The guy was constantly running out of energy.

Then I got pissed and healed the monk while he was at full health. After about 2 minutes I was still healing him, stopped and ctrlclicked my energy.. "I have 48 of 48 energy"
-_-

The problem isn't the non-monks.

The problem is everyone. 90% of all people in pugs in GW don't know how to play well. This is a fact, I didn't make that number up. (around 280-290 people I met out of the 320 I observed had no clue = 90%)

howbout someone make a thread called "10 reasons why PUGs hate monks?" Monks arent 'special', they're a class like the rest of us, and have no reason to have a holier than thou attitude

I am so glad I stopped PvE-ing with PuGs, (not that I PvE often) I just can't stand the PvE-monks in general. Why? Most of them are arrogant, agree with me or not, I don't care, but they think they are the most important person in the party.
Besides that, many monks are not that skilled. People think they need 3 monks in the party for THK, I am quite sure my guildmate has done THK as the only monk. This is not to say all monks are bad, just that most don't have a clue about what they are doing.

But anyway, Alesia and Mhenlo > 99% non-guild/non-friend monks

And please, get some E-management, it's not that hard.

EDIT:
Actually, I like to keep my pre-searing armour, that way I can irritate my monk teammembers (who ofcourse are my guildies (and yes, somehow they can keep me alive most of the time up till and including the Desert))

I play a monk often in PvE. I play in quite a few PUGs.

I'm not sure if I agree with you. I just got stuck on a Cantha mission...where I went through 5 or 6 tries with PUGs and we always did okay, until at one point, it all fell apart and lost the mission. Then the 7th try or so, we got this team that just clicked. good communication, good leadership...and we blasted through the mission and got the Master's level on the mission.

Here is the thing. I don't think that 7th team was substantially better players than the previous 6. I think all the PUGs had good players, some exceptional.

But I think that the 7th team gelled with good players...but it gelled. That is the key. It was a TEAM. Great players do not make a team... ask any person who plays sports. Great teams make great teams.

I think there are lots of very good players. Just not that many great teams.

Healing breeze is a wonderful spell. I use it all the time. I get complimented on my monk... so I can't suck all that bad. I will not use Heal area or Heal touch for the reasons you've stated.

I don't carry Hex removal... I'll offset Hexes with Healing Breeze or Vigorous Spirit...those two in tandem can do a lot of the healing work for me.. Hex removal seems so slow and such a long recharge that it sounds great in principal... but i've never gotten it to really work for me in play.

I do carry Mend Ailment and love it. I carry Mend Ailment over Mend condition (despite condition being faster) because I like the aiblity to use it on myself, if poisoned (often the tactic of enemy rangers).

But most of the healing I do is 5 pt quickies...so energy management is a little less of a problem... I can usually go 5 minutes of constant spell casting before worrying that I'm around the 5 energy mark. And I do have increased energy recovery skill on my skillbar (just blanking on the name, its an elite).

I have a very high Divine, which makes the little 5 pts or even Mend Ailment fairly potent spells.


And for the record, I like PUGs... I like the challenge and I love that occasional awesome PUG team that comes along.

i'll admit, in PvE you rarely get a really threatening hex. But if a monk goes into battle without some kind of condition removal, they deserve to get spanked.

You forgot the worst of it all... immature warriors pulling off pelvic thrusts to your face.

Well i played a monk for about 7 months ( in fact still do ) but it just isn't fun anymore. Keeping people alive? Bah, I want to kill stuff.

So I play mostly as a Ranger and Warrior. Mostly a Warrior now cause, well I like killing stuff. Hey some people farm for fun, I like to kill things for fun.

Anywho i found out I do pretty damn good with the henchie monks. Even the bad ones in Cantha. I do most missions like that and have pretty good success.

But if I'm in a PUG. Damn, it feels like we're invincible. So much so it doesn;t really feel like we needed two monks. But hey, everyone else wanted one.

So I really I think all this Monk bashing that goes on starts with people who aren't that good to begin with. And they need PUG's to get anywhere in the game.

Being a monk, I kind of learn whats expected when playing other classes. It goes beyond just arrgo'ing everything, but personal responsiblity on keeping yourself alive.

As a monk i learned fast I can;t keep everyone alive. And as a Warrior I know the monk won;t always have my back.

You got 8 skills people, they don;t all have to be offense.

Maybe I'm showing off my newness in this comment but...

If in the middle of a big battle with 'big nasty of the moment(tm)' you have the free time to type out:
"somebody get his punk a** over here and heal my butt!"
... then, in my opinion, there are problems that go way beyond just how you are treating your group healers.

When I'm fighting something in this game, my mouse clicking, 'c', 'space bar', 'tab', etc, is going so fast I don't have the time or luxury to let go and move over to the keyboard and type out so much as the first letter 'r' in 'run away'...

Most of the time if we have a "tank it all" kinda player i'll quickly draw an escape route on the map for all the sqishies, anyone who follows usually lives. Then we worry about ressing some moron alittle later.

Sometimes I think everyone should be forced to build a level 20 monk before they are even allowed to become warriors

I still enjoy monking on occasion, it makes for a nice change from bashing stuff and being on the frontline all the time. Whenever someone feels the need to be rude or dismissive of my work as a monk there is always the tried and trusted monk recourse of "ok, heal yourself then"

Good players who know sh*t happens and that everyone can die at times rarely bitch and moan about healing, they take it in stride and you can easily tell the good ones from the reaction after the mission/quest because they'll thank the monk(s).

I know your list is lighthearted but nevertheless, its also quite true

Tell me the last time you saw a warrior having a go at an ele for not casting meteor shower fast enough or a mesmer for not interrupting target x? How would you like it if monks started shouting "hey noob, kill that baddie faster!"?
No, you're right, monks definitely have no right to attitudes but neither do others have a right to bash monks when they die due to (generally) sheer stupidity or incompetence.

PS: I've found a better way to make money now, I think, just go to THK and shout "Monk for rent, 2K per run" Based on what I saw today I'd make tons of cash

When you create your character, there are 6 - 8 options for you to choose from: Warrior, Ranger, Necromancer, Monk, Elementalist, Mesmer (Assassin, Ritualist). The Monk isn't some secret option. The Monk isn't an unlockable. Therefore, Monk == Every other profession.

So, why do Monks need to be thanked? The Minion Master doesn't get any. The Tank, who has an equally vital job, isn't getting any. Why you? Your job is to heal. It isn't a favor you are doing us out of courtesy. It’s what you are required to do. That is the definition of a job. You should get the same as everybody else, be it Faction, loot, gold or mission completion, and not more, not less. If you do an EXCEPTIONAL job, then OF COURSE, you deserve praise, and thanks! But you never get to make a list of demands before entering a group.

If a group member dies it is divided 12.5%, 16.6% or 25% amongst everybody. That’s how a team works.

I love my Smiting monk, selfheal and kickass(while wammo is screaming HEAL ME n00b Monk)

I've finished THK plenty of times but needed to do so with my Canthan. I was in a group with 3 monks, and for some reason they felt that because they had 3 monks they didn't need to listen to anyone else's input. 3 monks couldn't keep the king alive in the end... I just finished mission/bonus on THK with the help of friends and henchies (including henchie monks)... It's not the classes that are the problem (any class). It's the attitudes associated with them both for and against monks.

obviously you have never played a nuker.....warriors shout NUKE! NUKE NOW....uhm, I just did, it still is recharging or I am kitting because the warrior let some aggro past him (and m shower takes 5 seconds to launch--would be dead before I could get it off).....I have had this happen on a number of occasions....

I still say hats off to monks.....if you think about it the monk is about the ONLY prof that everyone always wants in their group, you can do without the necro, ele, and warrior (yep, have gone without warriors and had no problems), but the monk is always wanted (even if its just as a 2ndary---like the trapers UW and such groups).....and it requires some skill to play.

so thanks again monks, but dont let it go to your heads, ok?

I as much as I hate to say it, have to agree. Though with your system of equality we should neither get more respect nor more hatred from a group. I in my experience as any character, over roughly 9 months of playing both games (total obviously) have never seen any character get as much crap from not doing there job with lightning relfexes.

Why is that? Because it is our job to allow almost all the others to do theres, we form a varitable back bone of the group. As such more often than not we are taken for granted, almost as though our job is somehow less of that of the damage dealers, people don't realize how difficult it is to sustain a group of eight morons. The reason alot of us (myself included more than I would like to admit) act as though we are somehow better than the rest of the group is because most jobs involve killing some sort of AI monster, not dealing with a moron up front who tries to aggro every damn thing on Earth, or tries to nuke when a mob is headed straight for them.

There should be no animosity between the groups because when we work together, in an intelligent manner at one point or another each class or well made build will be equal to that of the other. I say we stop bashing on one group (I speak for the Monks here, as i've seen less others get bashed as badly) simply because they have made one tiny error that has merely caused an inconvience to the group as a whole. As well as stop this system of one being better than the other, as in the case of some Monks (again myself included) feeling superior, and classes such as Mesmers being thought of as inferior. Those two are obviously not the only high and mighty or down trodden class.

/end rant.

Quoted for truth. Seriously, fellas, first of all the monk, if he's a healing monk of any kind, KNOWS that you need healing. He's probably doing his best to get to you, but don't forget he can only cast one spell at a time, and if he's a healer, the only spell he has that is shorter than 3/4 seconds long is Infuse Health (unless he's a boon prot. In which case you'll only get a boon-powered Reversal when you're REALLY in danger. Believe me, the monk knows better than you do whether you're really in danger or not). Yelling at your monk doesn't help unless you're in a GvG, and you're over vent, and you're getting pwnz0red.

I've had my healing monk since ... forever. Well at least since Guild Wars Prophesies betas. I've been healing when Air spikers were the rage in Tombs. I've been healing since Flesh Golem farming was still possible. And over that entire time I have NEVER, EVER seen any time when someone yelling, "OMG HEAL ME NOOB MONK" actually helped the situation. If you have the time to type that, you have the time to either run away so that you stop taking damage and transfer aggro to someone who can, or stand there so that the monks can focus heals on you to keep your butt alive.

I play/ed a monk in Tyria. I'm dreading starting in Cantha for reasons to do with energy and lack of ability on my behalf.

My monk carries rebirth on her, why? because if I have to res anyone, the entire party is dead and I managed to get out alive.

Uhm, you have 7 skills, the 8th should be a res of some sort, only very few occasions will allow you to not carry a res. Pve isn't one of them.

Now, for every other profession I play, I quite often go secondary monk, that's because 7 skills are primary skills, the 8th would be nice if it was a hard res.

My mesmer is secondary monk by nature. No, I will not self-heal/bring heals for the party, that's what the monk is for. But.. in case we have a death, resurection chant gets them up in slightly more time than a res sig, and while they might not have the most amount of energy.. at least they have life to run.

Then again, in most cases, I will take responsibility if I'm dying too.. means I probably did something rather stupid, like not watching aggro.

I am looking forward to the assassin though I can make the monk's life hell without feeling bad about it, simply by blaming it on the fact I have low armor (my assassin is a storage character until I learn to not die)