Touch Ranger - Overpowered?

shmek

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

20 Jun 2006 at 09:26 - 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

.................. Please include any reasons WHY you think there should or shouldn't be a nerf ....

People need to evolve in game instead of cry and whine for nerfs whenever they encounter change in tactics that they don't like. If your builds are no longer effective then it is time for "ME/YOU" to evolve.

Problem is that this doesn't bode well for the lazy of which we all are to some degree..... myself for certain admittedly.

Usually there is a cry of simpletons resistant to change as a natural instinct to encountering a lose that people feel they are somehow superior to, they feel they are always supposed to "win" at whatever game they are playing.

Sadly, it's indicative of society of late in which there is the quick thoughtless cry for someone else to take responsibility for what we don't like, rather then fix the problem ourselves with our own intelligence.

Again, I favor evolution of thought and tactics rather then crying for nerfs so I can keep my same old simple tactics that I have come to love as being my own personal advantage over others.

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

20 Jun 2006 at 13:49 - 242

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Sorry frojack I didn't realise the first part of your post was an actual question, and not a statment with a question mark at the end(a.k.a. rhetorical question)... Either way, I apoligize for this and will be editing my post to note this.

However this does not explain the sheer stupidity of the second half of your post...

Ok, all top 100 guilds are stupid. I guess it's the 1000+ guys that are the smart ones because they don't kite warriors under movment buffs. /end sarcasam

You know, when the warrior catches up to you and swings his weapon, he stands still while he strikes. You continue running. Hmm, he needs to catch up to you again. Oh and of course every second he's under a stance movment buff means he's not under Frenzy.

As I have already stated, and there is clear facts to prove(I'm sure you can find quite a bit on it with the Search function), auto-crits only trigger when you strike a foe directly on their back. It's the exact same area as Bull's Strike used to need to hit for a KD pre-buff. This means that you can easily avoid almost every single auto-crit with proper kiting.

You know, if they knock you down they don't get any auto-crits on you with the kiting example, the only possible auto-crit(besides a scrub using Wild Blow) would be the knock down.

Your 'point' is not based in any fact whatsoever. Please, if you would like to prove me wrong do so. Post all the figures for it, and use a foe running directly away with a Touch Ranger chasing with both a 25% and a 33% speed buff, compare this to a touch ranger against a non-kiting foe. You're going to find that even on a target not kiting directly away, even in a medium sized circle, the damage will be reduced than from that of the damage on a stationary target. Don't beleive that you stop when using a skill? Test it. If you're right and you really don't stop to use a skill(which is proven false by simple observation), then post the math on exactly why it is pointless. Fair enough. My assertion about kiting in general was uncalled for. What I should have said was kiting is situational. Sometimes you can't afford to kite a warrior, without doing something about the damage. The damage is just potentially too great. Especially if their moving faster than normal. You kite, they will catch up. When they do, that weapon could leach a silly amount of damage.
All the while you are not doing anything about the damage you have already sustained. If you have no defense or healing, I suppose all you can do is run away till you die or your monk to heal you. However, a monk is not always available to save you. I never 'work' under the assumption that a monk will always heal me. I could be wrong, I don't GvG. I'm not up to speed on 'the top 100 guilds' either, sorry.

Edit: Part removed. Appologies. that was just rude of me.

Similarly, with the touch rangers under increased speed; Your running will not achieve much. At least in terms of the damage they do. Believe me, I have tried it. How you could require flow-charts to work that out is beyond me. The delay when they stand to touch is similar to the recharge of Vampiric Touch. How far away do you think you will get after that first touch?
What you can do is run past other non-kiting team mates who might catch the rangers eye if your feeling particularly evil, or kiting around spirits can help delay the inevitable.
Touch rangers can be a tricky proposition. There is no way you can justify '...run. It'll be fine...' as a 'lone' strategy for combating them. I'm sure Calico Swift and many others have telling stories about such situations.

Robin_Anadri

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta, GA

Girl Power [GP]

Me/Mo

21 Jun 2006 at 01:05 - 243

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

So what your saying is that thay won't be nerfed because Random Arenas, Team Arenas, and Alliance Battles don't matter?

For purposes of nerfing, no, they don't matter. The nerfbat lands on a build if and ONLY if it is adversely affecting the core PvP of Guild Wars, ie., GvG and HA. GvG more than HA, this is, after all, "Guild Wars."

Witness the shadowstep nerf. People had all sorts of fun with AoD porting them all over the map, but it didn't become an issue until it was used to port back to the enemy Guild Lord in one of the final matches last season.

You can say what you will about RA/TA/AB, but they are training wheels PvP. That doesn't mean they're not fun, or that Anet doesn't care about them, but quirky Flavor of the Month builds are *not* an issue there.

As Calico said earlier, things like touch rangers serve as object lessons for those willing to learn. The vampires have been the greatest force in recent memory to teach PvPers the importance of kiting, snares, and degen. Those who learn these lessons are better players for it. Those who refuse to learn will continue to get pwnt. Such is the nature of the game.

Quote:

Similarly, with the touch rangers under increased speed; Your running will not achieve much. At least in terms of the damage they do. Believe me, I have tried it. How you could require flow-charts to work that out is beyond me. The delay when they stand to touch is similar to the recharge of Vampiric Touch. How far away do you think you will get after that first touch?
What you can do is run past other non-kiting team mates who might catch the rangers eye if your feeling particularly evil, or kiting around spirits can help delay the inevitable.
Touch rangers can be a tricky proposition. There is no way you can justify '...run. It'll be fine...' as a 'lone' strategy for combating them. I'm sure Calico Swift and many others have telling stories about such situations. Nobody's suggeting that kiting is the only strategy for dealing with them, but standing still for them is just plain asking for it. Kiting *does* mitigate damage. Besides, at best a touch ranger is going to have Dodge and Zojun's Haste on her bar, which is a sum total of 22 seconds of 33% speed boost, with a fair bit of down time waiting for recharge. Every time the ranger catches up with the target and stops to cast, that's wasted speed boost time. Also, intelligent kiting more than makes up for any speed difference. I've seen many touchers who weren't paying close attention get kited right into the opposing base, where they are instagibed by the base defender. Kiting a toucher into the midst of your team MM's crowd of minions is the end of that ranger. Kiting them to your team mates is the end of that ranger. All the while, you are mitigating damage because they are not able to spam their skills on you.

If you'd like to have some fun touch hunting (and it IS fun, believe me) try something stealthy like going W/Me and bring Ethereal Burden and Images of Remorse (yes those are expensive spells, but EB will give you energy when it ends and IoR is a cheap degener) and watch the toucher panic.

Undead Preacher

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Scribes of Cantha (USoC)

21 Jun 2006 at 06:18 - 244

I think they should nerf monks.... keep healing and shit

QUIT CRYING!

TheProject

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

In a box

The Living Hell Pheonix

Mo/Me

21 Jun 2006 at 06:27 - 245

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

21 Jun 2006 at 06:37 - 246

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheProject

And what exactly is the Boon Prot monk supposed to do when he is being chased down by a touch ranger who spams running spells and touch skills while RoF, Guardian AND Protspirit do nothing ? And the entire team is still attacking the enemy monk ? the monk is not suposed to go away far from his team. if he is getting "touched" all he has to do is run in the crown of minions. yes of curse the team is attaking but if the team is 100% idiots and don't see the monk goin down and a red/blue dot in their party, im sorry but that team will not get very far in that game

Dravyn

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

21 Jun 2006 at 13:50 - 247

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

For a close range damage dealer, Touch Ranger's fall short. Let's look at what they can't do.

They cannot apply conditions. This is most deeply noticed in the fact that they cannot apply a deep wound. They can TRANSFER conditions, but in of themselves they cannot apply a condition.

They cannot knock down kiting foes.

They cannot interrupt.

They cannot deal burst or spike damage. The damage they do deal is predictable and easily managed.

They cannot heal themselves UNLESS they are standing next to an opponent.

They cannot deal damage without energy. Their DPS tapers if they are subjected to a longer battle, they lack easily sustainable constant damage for a long engagement.

They are entirely dependant on both of the 'touch' attacks. If either attack is disabled, then the entire build falls apart.

Alot of other things are common to all 'Melee' type classes (ie... Snare, Hex, conditions, etc.) have already been pointed out.

In my honest sincere opinion... I don't think the few advantages they do have (ignore armor/evasion, etc) can make up for the many ways they suck. I can see that most of the "TR are not overpowered" crowd dont' know anything about touch rangers..

They can apply conditions. And if they carry Virulence as an elite, which I have, they can spread more conditions than most builds. Clueless statement.

There is also no need to be standing "next" to an opponent to heal, unless you've filled your skill bar with defense stances. You see, Touchers can pack all of their damage into two skill slots, leaving the rest for regens, of which more than one are available, and their defenses. Clueless statement.

They do not lack easily sustainable constant damage, unless the battle runs long enough to drain anyone else of energy. They pay less than most classes, in terms of energy, for the damage and healing they do. Clueless statement.

They absolutely are not entirely dependant on the touch attacks. Clueless.

I tried one out, because personally i'm sick of dying to them and watching them shred the npcs in Aspenwood, and I must say..
Touch Rangers are bad mothers. I could easily kill every single person that crossed my path with the exception of one mesmer and a necro/monk combo. Everyone else was toast to me, and I played it all day. My opinion by the end of that day playing toucher was that - everyone that complains about them is right. They're cheap, effective, and far too powerful. Sure, they might not be all that in GvG, but as many people have attempted to remind you leet folks, GvG is only ONE of many pvp arenas in this game.

I could barely be crippled, unless I was hexed, because in my months of playing a W/N ive gotten quite handy with plague touch. If i'm alone and hit by a cripshot ranger or crippled by a hex then it will slow me down, otherwise, no. And even crippling me doesn't make me entirely useless.

So for the guy that said "if you think touch rangers are overpowered, play one"..I did. Thanks for the advice.

Anywhere outside of GvG, imo, they're overpowered.

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

21 Jun 2006 at 14:32 - 248

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

They can apply conditions. And if they carry Virulence as an elite, which I have, they can spread more conditions than most builds. Clueless statement.

Plauge Touch only functions when you have a condition on you. Yes you can inflict conditions on yourself, but you're wasting a skill slot with that most times. Enfeebling Touch or any weakness-based condition is a waste of a skill slot on a TR. The same goes for Throw Dirt. By the way, the fact that you're not carrying OOB makes you much, much less scary as it limits your spamming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn There is also no need to be standing "next" to an opponent to heal, unless you've filled your skill bar with defense stances. You see, Touchers can pack all of their damage into two skill slots, leaving the rest for regens, of which more than one are available, and their defenses. Clueless statement. If you're not using your touch skills, you're essentialy worthless.

If you're talking about bring Life Siphon or Troll Unguent, that's really not going to help you much. Troll can be inturupted by even the absolute worst of all scrubs. Life Siphon can be removed pretty easily, is going to dent your energy, and just about anyone who's played the game for longer than oh an hour should really be able to hit it with an inturupt. If you have no defensive stances(or a large gap in their coverage), inturupts become much more viable agaisnt you, and now Distracting Shot is a serious problem, for example. Oh, and incase you didn't know, Damage Compression > Regen.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dravyn They do not lack easily sustainable constant damage, unless the battle runs long enough to drain anyone else of energy. They pay less than most classes, in terms of energy, for the damage and healing they do. Clueless statement. Yes, and they're going run out of energy with no OOB in what, 3 minutes(or maybe that's with OOB, I really can't remember)? A warrior's damage is higher, and far easeir to sustain, and it is greater. Warriors can compress damage and spike. Touch Rangers can not. This means you're only going to ever get a kill due to pure pressure alone, and this pressure is actualy less than that of a Warrior...

Yet they have no large bursts of healing, unless you maybe want to count blood renewal... but if you use that someone can just kill you after the sac... and it's really not an "on demand" heal, so yeah that doesn't count. Only steady streams of it from touch skills or regen, both of which are easily inturupted or even simply overpowered. Damage compression ftw.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dravyn They absolutely are not entirely dependant on the touch attacks. Clueless. Ok, so what other skills do they constantly need to spam for the majority of their damage and healing? Oh wait, touch skills. No Vampiric Gaze does not count as descent healing, or descent damage on one of them. Try spamming it... So we have established that the majority of their damage is from Touch skills. We've also established that all their other healing can easily be powered through or is simply not spammable. So you're right, they're only 95+% dependant on touch skills.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dravyn I tried one out, because personally i'm sick of dying to them and watching them shred the npcs in Aspenwood, and I must say..
Touch Rangers are bad mothers. I could easily kill every single person that crossed my path with the exception of one mesmer and a necro/monk combo. Everyone else was toast to me, and I played it all day. My opinion by the end of that day playing toucher was that - everyone that complains about them is right. They're cheap, effective, and far too powerful. This is that "1 vs 1" mindset. It's a team game pal. Oh, and owning absolute scrubs that refuse to improve or think and NPCs really does not count for anything. Hell, I've seen a whammo with glads def and both ripostes kill 3 warriors who mobbed him before(C+spacebar targeting FTL), this was in RA. Does this make the whammo overpowerd? No. Should we nerf gladiator's defense and both ripostes for PvP because some idiots didn't realise not to attack the guy with melee? No. This is where learning to play comes in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Sure, they might not be all that in GvG, but as many people have attempted to remind you leet folks, GvG is only ONE of many pvp arenas in this game. Yet all the descent teams I've had in RA have had no problems with them. Never had a problem with them in TA. Never in HA. Never in GvG. Never "my" team in ABs, the idiots in the other teams on my side, well... I'll say no more.

They're only a problem against bad players. There are too many bad players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

I could barely be crippled, unless I was hexed, because in my months of playing a W/N ive gotten quite handy with plague touch. If i'm alone and hit by a cripshot ranger or crippled by a hex then it will slow me down, otherwise, no. And even crippling me doesn't make me entirely useless. This is either because scrubs don't A) let their team know they're using crippling shot/pin down B) understand what their team mate is saying or lastly C) don't know what plauge touch is or does, or that touch rangers carry it.

What can you do when you're crippled, against good players? You can't touch anything. You can use stances. You can use any ranged spells, or any self-targeting skills like Troll Unguent. Yeah, you're worthless except for the possible vampiric gaze, and due to that being a spell, well, you're really not going to be spamming that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Anywhere outside of GvG, imo, they're overpowered. Why do good teams roll them in TA?
Why do good teams roll them in HA?
Why do good teams roll them in RA?
Why do good teams roll them in ABs?

Answer: Touch Rangers only work against bad teams. Again, the problem is not with Touch Rangers, it's with the players.

You really can't determine if somthing is unbalanced at extremely low levels of play. It has to be good at high levels of play, in any mode of play. Touch Rangers suck at even mid-level play, they're no where close to unbalanced. Learn to play.

Dravyn

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

21 Jun 2006 at 16:12 - 249

I understand its a team game, but the only truly comprehensive team game environment out of all of the myriad pvp arenas available in this game is HoA and GvG. That leaves the rest of the game where touch rangers are overpowered. You can say what you want about what they're capable of, but I know, I spent all day playing one and doing what I see them do - straight up owning everything around me.

Myself, I enjoy Fort Aspenwood over RA and TA. I can't get into GvG. Personally I don't think all balance should be limited to GvG, with the rest of us hung out to dry. Touch Ranger in and of itself is an extremely overpowered build anywhere outside of a fluid team building format, such as the aforementioned arenas.

You mention all these interrupts, etc, but there's one major difference between warrior stances and ranger stances that pisses me off to no end - just about all warrior defensive stances end as soon as you use a skill. Ranger's do not, another factor of touch rangers being an abusively exploited build. I don't get interrupted as a ranger, because of my stances. I can spam troll unguent all day. Again, don't respond to everyone's complaints with the GvG mindset, because I suppose they're balanced there. Everywhere else they're not.
Warriors cannot outdamage touch rangers, wild blow or no..I've played as a warrior against them and now I've played as one. Even KD warriors are usually dead before they can build the adrenaline to get their chain started, unless they've worked it up on another target.

Decent teams in RA? lol, not even going there. But I have seen 4 man toucher teams in TA decimate everything in their path, until someone starts building mesmer teams in the hope they catch them.
Good teams do not roll them in TA and RA. Mesmer teams roll them in TA and RA. If there is any enemy anywhere near me, a crip ranger will NOT slow me down, I can promise you that. Doesn't work on my w/n either, and he's a helluva lot less self sufficient than my new toucher.

Personally I'm sick of you people calling everyone else bad players because they can't handle touch rangers. This class can pack all of their damage dealing AND healing into two skill slots. They have a multitude of defensive skills that alow skill use through them, they are fast, they are durable, and most of all, their energy usage is cheap, creating spammable life drains that don't count as spells or attacks. Yes, almighty GW player, you can beat Touch Rangers when you've got a mesmer and a crip shot ranger and you kite them, go you. Get off your freakin pedestal.
I'd almost be willing to bet I could take my TR into HoA or even GvG and kick far more ass than my warrior can. I imagine i'll try TA and HA tonight. If you like, I can post some results for you. I know what they can do, unlike you apparently

Quote:

Why do good teams roll them in TA?
Why do good teams roll them in HA?
Why do good teams roll them in RA?
Why do good teams roll them in ABs?

Answer: Touch Rangers only work against bad teams. Again, the problem is not with Touch Rangers, it's with the players. Remember ,its a team game. When was the last time you needed a "good team" to roll a warrior, or a single mesmer? Yea...Why does it take "good teams" to deal with one build?

Hell, by your logic, anyone that dies to a warrior must be an incredibly bad player, since warriors are easier to shut down, have less self healing, do less up front opening damage, and have little to no skill dmg while under defensive stances.

Robin_Anadri

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta, GA

Girl Power [GP]

Me/Mo

21 Jun 2006 at 19:15 - 250

I was going to post more of a response, but I can't stop laughing long enough about Dravyn's l337 t0u(h r4/\/g3r sk1llz, spamming troll unguent and Virulence.

Because everybody knows, touch rangers need points in Wilderness Survival, and only n00bz carry Offering of Blood.

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

21 Jun 2006 at 19:55 - 251

I'm sorry, but why are people making a big deal out of this? As far as I know, PvP and GvG are all about evolution. Computer opponents don't evolve, so once you know what they have, you know how to beat them.

In PvP, everyone is different, every doesn't go by an algorythm (at least I hope not), so the only thing you can do is "evolve or step aside".

The assassin, the ranger, the warrior, the necromancer and the ritualist all have skills/spells that will by pass whatever evade stances that the Touch Ranger has.

I haven't read all of the responses to this thread, but the ones I've seen, knockdowns will interupt the TR. But how about Price of Failure or Spirit of Failure. Do these have any affect on a TR? I'm guessing VT will by pass Shelter and Shield of Judgement. Spirit Shakles, does that do anything?

If VT & VB aren't considered attacks, then I guess Spirit Shackles won't do anything, neither will Empathy, Reckless Haste, Insidious Parasite, Shield Bash, etc.

Hmmm... Do warriors bring Griffon's Sweep, Leviathan's sweep, Wild Blow, Shove, None Shall Pass, Warrior's Cunning, Irresistable Blow, or Swift Chop, or Sun and Moon Slash, Seeking Blade, Pure Strike, Jaizhenju Strike?

These should be able to allow them to hit the TR and drop them. Yes, maybe the health gained by VT & VB will be more than the damage done by the warrior alone, but, Warriors are rarely alone.

samifly

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Girl Power [GP]

Mo/Me

21 Jun 2006 at 21:05 - 252

The touch skills are simply skills, not attacks or spells. Like Blackout, Throwdirt, Shock, etc...

Dravyn

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

21 Jun 2006 at 21:54 - 253

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri

Hello troll. Another GvG l33t roxz0r omgwtfbbqpwn player in the house? yay...
I was merely discrediting a claim by one of your leet brethren about Touchers not being able to give any conditions. You lot like to come up with your own scenarios (mostly untrue) about how underpowered they are anywhere outside of facing a pre-made team that can cover most if not all facets of class based pvp.

YES, I know, I have played one, and I'm pretty sure I could kick some ass in GvG as well, depending on how many mesmers were actually paying attention to me. Forget crippling, there's too many people to touch.

Touch Rangers rock outside of GvG, I can assure you. Not because people are bad players (see my warrior reference) but because its the only build in the game that can do what it does. No matter how you slice it, its death on two feet in this game, and very good at being that.

so yea, go ahead and call everybody that complains about an overpowered build noobs and tell them they need to learn to play, etc etc, because we all know you're so uber leet, when in fact I could probably take 4 touchers and roll any 4 man team you could put together, not withstanding a team made to kite, in which case you'd've had to *build* specifically to cater to me. That's balance tho, uh?

samifly

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Girl Power [GP]

Mo/Me

22 Jun 2006 at 01:46 - 254

First of all, she's no troll.
And touch rangers, unless you mean, using throw dirt, cannot give conditions, only return them. Plus you have to be in melee range to do it, which if you are crippled, doesnt do you alot of good. If you see a crippled touch ranger, then just -dont go near them-. Simply not letting touch rangers get near you makes them bloody ineffective. Snare/cripple, degen, watch as they die right as they get to you.

2nd - they are not "death on two feet" the damage they do is feeble at best, and not sustainable for any length of time. They cannot heal very well outside of melee, if they have a proper build -ie-16 expertise, 12 blood, and are even more crappy if you spread out your points more.

BTW, I -hate- playing touch rangers, I just find it silly that people think they deserve a nerf - plus nerfing necro touch skills, would, in all honesty require nerfs of any touch skill.

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

22 Jun 2006 at 02:07 - 255

Flip! Are you lot still going on about this?

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

22 Jun 2006 at 03:08 - 256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

I can see that most of the "TR are not overpowered" crowd dont' know anything about touch rangers..

I played and judged Touch Rangers long before they became popular. So I'll ignore that snap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

They can apply conditions. And if they carry Virulence as an elite, which I have, they can spread more conditions than most builds. Clueless statement.

This was covered by others. But even ignoring the fact that Virulence is a spell, an elite, and a whole other attribute, it's not that great an option for a Touch Ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

There is also no need to be standing "next" to an opponent to heal, unless you've filled your skill bar with defense stances. You see, Touchers can pack all of their damage into two skill slots, leaving the rest for regens, of which more than one are available, and their defenses. Clueless statement. This was covered by Zui.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

They do not lack easily sustainable constant damage, unless the battle runs long enough to drain anyone else of energy. They pay less than most classes, in terms of energy, for the damage and healing they do. Clueless statement. Since you don't have OoB, you're losing 2.33 energy a second, with no way of managing the loss. That's hardly sustainable. Even with OoB, TR's are working with an energy deficiet, and once they hit bottom, they deal a whooping 'next to nil' damage, as compared to a warrior, which is deadly and dangerous at zero energy.

Considering you're entire experience with Touch Ranger's is limited to your recent experience.... and you've been arguing this entire time without having played one... I think you've really overstepped yourself accussing someone of being clueless.

Undead Preacher

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Scribes of Cantha (USoC)

22 Jun 2006 at 08:33 - 257

can the moderators make a rule against whinning in the forums, then all these crybabies can be BANNED....

oh man i just got PWNED.... nerf please lol newbies

Dravyn

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

22 Jun 2006 at 14:01 - 258

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

I played and judged Touch Rangers long before they became popular. So I'll ignore that snap.

This was covered by others. But even ignoring the fact that Virulence is a spell, an elite, and a whole other attribute, it's not that great an option for a Touch Ranger.

This was covered by Zui.

Since you don't have OoB, you're losing 2.33 energy a second, with no way of managing the loss. That's hardly sustainable. Even with OoB, TR's are working with an energy deficiet, and once they hit bottom, they deal a whooping 'next to nil' damage, as compared to a warrior, which is deadly and dangerous at zero energy.

Considering you're entire experience with Touch Ranger's is limited to your recent experience.... and you've been arguing this entire time without having played one... I think you've really overstepped yourself accussing someone of being clueless. /boggle

I have played one, or did you only read what you disagreed with and nit pick it..obviously you didn't really read what I wrote.
I did not say that Virulence build makes Touch Rangers uber, what I said was that they CAN spread conditions, even though you all claimed they could not. Okay? I'm merely discrediting your claims.

I also know that if I really need to farm faction, Touch Ranger is a great class to play because you can easily annhilate everybody else in Aspen and destroy the npc's in a matter of seconds. I can also take a toucher into TA and HA and score crazy kills, barring the team with a good mesmer set up.

Unless you're built to take down touch rangers, then you don't stand a whole lot of chance. Cripple doesn't hardly faze me on my W/N, it certainly doesn't faze me on an R/N. Unless i'm all alone, in which case I, like any other class, will most likely be screwed.

You people are all ignoring what I'm saying. I say I've played it, it rocks, I feel its overpowered. Everybody else feels its overpowerd except for the close knit GvG community that posts here. You just call us all whiners and noobs and to stfu and learn how to play, even when I/we dispute your idiotic claims with proof and personal experience. Yes, Touchers aren't so much a problem in GvG, we've covered that. Thanks for using that as your *only* foot to stand on, repeatedly.

wsmcasey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Right behind you.

HeRo

W/Rt

22 Jun 2006 at 14:40 - 259

I played around with a touch ranger build last night in random arena and alliance battles, and at times it does feel a bit over powered, but other times its a frustrating build. Since you have to touch your target to deal damage and heal yourself it leaves you wide open for ranged attackers to wipe the floor with you, especially mesmers since you dont have a hex removal. You can bring a long a self heal like troll unguent, but it wont be as effective at +5 or 6 regen since you cant invest many points in Wilderness Survival. It's a fun build to play around with, but it gets old pretty fast because your basically spamming 2 skills over and over again. I'll stick with a bow, thank you.

Robin_Anadri

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta, GA

Girl Power [GP]

Me/Mo

22 Jun 2006 at 15:12 - 260

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

/boggle

I have played one, or did you only read what you disagreed with and nit pick it..obviously you didn't really read what I wrote.
I did not say that Virulence build makes Touch Rangers uber, what I said was that they CAN spread conditions, even though you all claimed they could not. Okay? I'm merely discrediting your claims.

You accuse *him* of nitpicking? Had you been, I don't know, reading the posts and responses to this thread, you would have seen that I quibbled slightly with his otherwise fantastic post and suggested that a toucher might occasionally carry Signet of Agony to inflict bleeding. Why SoA? Because it's a blood magic skill, and a signet at that, meaning it's no drain on my energy pool and it will do the max initial damage that a non-necro primary can do with it.

You either didn't play the skill set you suggest, or you played an extremely gimped build and if you owned, it's because you were up against extremely bad players.

The point of touch rangering is to have 16 expertise and 12 blood magic. Presuming you did, you only have 6 attribute points left over, and you suggest spreading those into two more skill lines?

Let's say I spot you a minor WS rune, and you throw one point into WS which takes you to a pathetic +4 regen for Troll Unguent. It won't go up to five even if you dump the rest of your points in WS, so we're done there. So, you spend 2 energy (at 16 exp) and 3 seconds of standing still to gain +4 regen for 10 seconds?

So then we move on to Death Magic... 5 skill points left... throw in two ranks... oops! we're done. Going to 3 needs 3 points and we only have 2 left. So at 2 DM, Virulence creates conditions for..... 5 seconds! Oooooh scary! Plus it's a *spell* meaning it cost you the full 5 energy to cast it, plus you have to cast it on a foe who's already suffering from a condition, which in your build you can't inflict, you can only transfer.

At this point, you've only wasted skill slots and crippled your energy management, which is significant. But you could argue major or superior WS Rune or pulling points out of Blood Magic or Expertise, which further gimps your build. Even pulling one rank out of expertise makes your cost for the 15 energy skills go up to 6. Pulling one rank out of Blood Magic lowers your damage and self heal by six points.

Quote:

I also know that if I really need to farm faction, Touch Ranger is a great class to play because you can easily annhilate everybody else in Aspen and destroy the npc's in a matter of seconds. I can also take a toucher into TA and HA and score crazy kills, barring the team with a good mesmer set up.

Unless you're built to take down touch rangers, then you don't stand a whole lot of chance. Cripple doesn't hardly faze me on my W/N, it certainly doesn't faze me on an R/N. Unless i'm all alone, in which case I, like any other class, will most likely be screwed. You only "annhilate" bad players. You find more bad players in Aspenwood and RA. If your toucher scores crazy kills in TA and HA, it's because you're up against a team that would have lost to henchmen. Mesmers are not the only bane of touch rangers. Clueless statement.

Quote:

You people are all ignoring what I'm saying. I say I've played it, it rocks, I feel its overpowered. Everybody else feels its overpowerd except for the close knit GvG community that posts here. You just call us all whiners and noobs and to stfu and learn how to play, even when I/we dispute your idiotic claims with proof and personal experience. Yes, Touchers aren't so much a problem in GvG, we've covered that. Thanks for using that as your *only* foot to stand on, repeatedly. You're perfectly welcome to feel that it's overpowered. That's a personal statement. I'm just as free to feel that those who feel it's overpowered are whining losers who don't want to deal with the changing landscape of PvP by adapting their builds and/or play styles and learning that GW is a team game, not a 1v1 game. Every single "personal experience" that has been posted by vampire detractors has been from one of two perspectives, either they got pwnt by a toucher 1v1, or they rolled up a toucher and pwned other classes 1v1. No one is going to argue that a touch ranger can take down most builds 1v1. That does not, however, mean that it's overpowered. Why? Because, as has been repeatedly stated, this is a *team game.* No touch ranger can survive the concerted attention of 2 or more foes, regardless of whether they brought specific touch ranger counters.

And there, at last, is the heart of the issue. The touch ranger is hardly the first build to pressure players to learn to work with their team, it's merely the latest and one difficult to ignore because it's capable of pwning warriors 1v1. It's terribly bruising to thier egos, but the *intelligent* players will pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and learn from the experience, in this case learning that 1v1 is inferior to working with your team. Shocking concept.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

22 Jun 2006 at 15:36 - 261

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

I have played one, or did you only read what you disagreed with and nit pick it..obviously you didn't really read what I wrote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn I tried one out, because personally i'm sick of dying to them

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Considering you're entire experience with Touch Ranger's is limited to your recent experience....

Stop skimming my responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn I did not say that Virulence build makes Touch Rangers uber, what I said was that they CAN spread conditions, even though you all claimed they could not. Okay? I'm merely discrediting your claims. Even assuming that anyone would want to run it... It still requires a condtion to be applied before you can use it. It is a multi step process to get to where you can "apply" a condtion. Since this requires skillslots that most TR's don't bother wasting, I think its safe to say my comment was accurate.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dravyn

did you only read what you disagreed with and nit pick it..obviously you didn't really read what I wrote. I only comment where I had something to add. Everything else was covered by other posters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Cripple doesn't hardly faze me on my W/N, it certainly doesn't faze me on an R/N. You keep bringing this up. Cripple is devestating to Warrior and TR alike. I don't know how you are using Plauge Touch when you can't catch someone. The only reasons you would be able to use it, is that someone is not kiting (which they should be), or another warrior is attacking you (which they should not be), or you have a NPC near by. Two of those depend on bad players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Touchers aren't so much a problem in GvG, we've covered that. Thanks for using that as your *only* foot to stand on, repeatedly. *Ahem*

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Playing in RA with a standard team-dependant Meta-Game build is only going to breed frustration and annoyance anyway. With so many gimmicks, you almost have to play a gimmick to get anywhere. In GvG and HA, touch Rangers are laughed at. In TA and AB, touch rangers are easily dealt with. ^ That's been my stance. And you've not given us anything definative to prove otherwise. Any experience you've had since you've started this arguement is going to be slanted to your opinion. The whole, "Touch Rangers rock because I've played them and they're overpowered because I say so" isn't gonna wash with many.

gabrial heart

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Las Vegas

Beautiful Peoples Club [LIPO]

Mo/Me

22 Jun 2006 at 16:08 - 262

Wow, this thread is still going strong eh? I remeber not to long ago when the MM was to overpowered deal until someone suggested veratice gaze as a nice counter to an unsuspecting mm.

We took our all-mighty touch ranger into scrimmage against each class and each class handled the all-mighty touch ranger quite easily. The only one that had to do a bit of mental juggling was the warrior, but he still managed to beat (not pwn) the TR in a fairly heated match. As long as there are enough counters to TR's (which imo any build that monopolizes one attribute is doomed to forever be a n00b build) there is absolutely no need to nerf them.

Wish i could close this one, it's turned into a flaming session.

BoondockSaint

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

R/Me

22 Jun 2006 at 22:00 - 263

Wish i could close this one, it's turned into a flaming session.[/QUOTE]

serioulsy, ive been glancing at this post for the past few days and its really getting crazy. My ranger has always been my favorite and first charcter, by now ANYONE that plays pvp should bring one counter to a touch ranger, as mentioned a million times there are planty for all classes except maybe the warrior who should say screw it and let the team deal with the TR. I've only been to the HoH twice and won once but Ive never seen a touch ranger in there and if i did my pindown, witch can be used for alought more then a TR, and posion will kill quickly. I have played a touch ranger in fort aspen were they are a force to be reconed with but so are healing monks, EOE bombers (saw this the other day was sweet

well played shock warriors and so on.

now that that is out of the way and Im sorry if i repeated other posts, heres my speculation on the whole, just about everyone can agree that a decent mesmer is a TR worst nightmare yet in PVE, from what Ive seen, mersmer is one of the lest played classes, since fort aspen is a PVE arena the TR main predator is usually not there and if one is there they will most likly be running an illusion slashing build that a good TR can win against. Again this is just from my experience in fort aspen and I'm sorry if this was already brought up but I didnt want to read through 10+ pages or bs.

Ismoke

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Fullerton, Ca.

CDXX/THE420TH.COM

Mo/Me

22 Jun 2006 at 23:35 - 264

my counter to a TR

1.pin down or crippling shot
2.apply poison or poison arrow
3.hunters shot

this is what ive used, usually they run the otherway> LOL

Im a R/W by the way, oh i didnt read the whole post but im sure someone has mentioned these skills already.

If they cant get to you they cant hurt yah>>>>>>>>

jummeth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

London

Diary of a Madman [SiKK]

23 Jun 2006 at 00:37 - 265

tbh, malaise > touchies
surge > touchies
ice prison > touchies
e-lord > touchies

There are 4 easy ways to counter touch rangers.

1. E-denial
2. Cripple/speed slowdown
3. Shutdown (through skills or through KD)
4. Spike

If your team doesn't pack at least 1or2 if not all then as a TA team, you will run into trouble.
Of course you must kite, however, you knew that already.

Team of 4 touch rangers? No problem, Wither/malaise is the easiest way to own them, they have no hex removal and if they can't keep their DPS up, they die very quickly. OoB means that they have 3-4 touches, however they just took a 20% sac. Malaise hurts, since they only have 3 e-regen anyway, same with e-lord, although the duration is a tad short.

Devil Lil Assassin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Halo of Flame [Halo]

25 Jun 2006 at 06:53 - 266

The biggest problem isn't one TR, even when i play my whinpy Assassin i can kill one touch ranger in a fair fight. The problem is when you get full teams of touchers, it's not impossible to beat a full team of touchers, but it is very difficult and takes alot of skill and teamwork. As long as a team has at least one person to cripple them and 1 or 2 to kite them touch rangers die, it's that easy. This thread is 14 pages right now of people arguing the EXACT same thing over and over again. I have the answer for it all.

A CRIPPLED TOUCHER IS A DEAD TOUCHER!!

Even if they have defensive skills almost all cripple skills recharge faster than defensive skills, so cripple them and they die, i find it hillarious when i see a touch ranger comming at my ranger, crippling shot / pin down, run away, poison arrow / apply poison ( though i think apply poison takes too long) for degen and a couple attack skills=dead touch ranger without any dmg done to you, except maybe vamp gaze if they have it....OH NO!! lmfao I don't understand why everyone has so many problems with touchers. As i said before the ONLY problem with TRs is when you have more than one comming at you. A single touch ranger on his own is one of the easiest kills in the PVP game.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE PEOPLE!

And yes I realize I'm saying the same thing other people have said, but obviously people are still whinning about touch rangers so apparently it needs to be again and again for them to get it through their thick skulls.

Oh yea I almost forgot Eles, Eles are one of the most effective ways to kill touch rangers especially if you have a E/R or E/Me, E/R have a bow in 2nd weapon set, hit cripple go back to reg weapons and nuke away, E/Me is even easier imagined burden is all it takes, by the time it wears off any fire ele does plenty of dmg to own the TR, and earth eles have so many knock-down dmg spells it's not even funny. There are TONS of build to counter touchers, I think people just get a kick out of bitching about it.

Have a great day everyone

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

25 Jun 2006 at 12:21 - 267

floor69

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Guru's HDD

[CRAP]

A/Rt

25 Jun 2006 at 14:18 - 268

A sort of double 100 blades = Triple axe, or cyclone axe, sadly 100 blades is a sword skill >.<

Devil Lil Assassin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Halo of Flame [Halo]

25 Jun 2006 at 19:54 - 269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

You know, I just had this amazing run in RA...

We had;

An Assassin/Warrior, a Assassin/Ranger, a Warrior/Monk, and myself, a Mo/Me boonprot.

We had a 10 run streak in RA, all but 2 were flawless 3 were against teams with at least one TR, both against the TR containing teams were flawless. We got to TA, and amazingly faced a 4 touch ranger team. It was a guild team. They were all running the proper skills, and played it fairly well. They first mobbed our W/Mo, who stood there and hit Healing Hands, then he died. They then went after me, I kited them. They split off onto different targets since chasing just me wasn't working (somewhere our whammo was ressed and got dropped again). Amazingly, we won in under 2 minutes.

Oh, might I add we had absolutly no snares? The closest thing we had to a counter would be energy denial, which was my Energy Drain lmao.

This match was pretty much a 3 vs 1 against touch rangers, and against what they're best at beating, melee charactars. Our warrior/monk dying because he didn't know how to kite, or to kite at all, is the perfect example of new, inexperienced players loosing to them. The fact that a random team with only two damage dealers and no real counters to Touch Rangers managed to beat an organised guild team of Touch Rangers is really a tribute to the 'issue' at hand.

Overpowered? I think not. A touch ranger build takes little to no skill to run, i have done it before and never will again, in my opinion toucher ranger is as boring as IWAY. Although a mostly melee team beating a team of 4 touchers is never impossible, all it proves is that the touch team had no organisation or teamwork, cause if they did when you were kiting them the two that broke off would have gone on to intercept you instead of following so you now have two in front of you and two behind. You can still get away of course but if they were an organised team you guys would most likely not have won that match, not saying you couldn't have won, but beating them in under 2 minutes just proves exactly how unorganised that team really was. So bassicly my point here is that just because you faced a Guil Team does NOT mean they are a good/organised team.

war adrenaline

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2006

USA

The Assassins creed

26 Jun 2006 at 21:23 - 270

i would flame but am not going to..just so u all know..
quit female dog 'ing about touch rangers, diversion kills it, period.
to all those noobs. its a mesmer skill..look it up.

artay

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Australia

The Agony Scene

27 Jun 2006 at 20:04 - 271

The answer to what you seek is right in front of you....the humble...Hydromancer! Got seven touchies runnin after you? *deep freeze*. Got one that just wont quit? *shard storm*. Want to really piss them off? *mind freeze*

wankey

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

29 Jun 2006 at 01:05 - 272

Yeah Touch Rangers need big nerfing. It's pretty easy to nerf them too. Make touch rangers unable to touch avoided and evaded and blocked, reduces a lot of their effectiveness yet keeps them in the game.

I haven't yet seen a warrior that can kill a touch ranger one on one, we're pretty much useless against them. Really pisses me off. I can't avoid their touches, yet they avoid my axe. All I can do is knock them down, and run.

And fighting them is completely boring. You KNOW what theyre going to do. It's like, okay touch ranger, great. He's gonna come up to me, touch touch touch. When I try to hit him, he gets whirling defense up. Bugger. Nothing to do but wait till I die or run away. If Anet thinks that's fun, then they really should play they're own game.

Most of the game's builds aren't so bugged up. Poeple say shock warriors are overpowered, but at least a good tank warrior can kill them. Lightning Eles were once the craze, but now they feel really weak (still good in teams though). But Touch rangers are just completely buggered. Fighting Shock wars, light eles, even minion masters feels natural. If you get beat, it feels normal. Touch rangers just ruin the game.

Lambentviper

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Noobs Just Took Halls [WTF]

Mo/E

29 Jun 2006 at 01:13 - 273

hah touch rangers can be beat by most builds if you know what your up against. Notice that touch rangers have no hex removal....and need to be right up in their targets face to be useful...HMm....im thinking Etheral Burden + Conjure Phantasm + Accumulated Pain, if i was a mesmer.

anything else i would just cripple em or wait!! I COULD USE 1 SKILL TO SHUT THEM DOWN!! BLACKOUT

wow, that was hard

and for warriors, any hammer warrior can easily take down a touch, including bunny thumpers

Lambentviper

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Noobs Just Took Halls [WTF]

Mo/E

29 Jun 2006 at 01:23 - 274

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

I remain firmly of the opinion that Touch Rangers are the best thing to happen to RA. TRs weed out the irredeemably stupid from the slightly clever, which is a boon for PvP as a whole. TRs can be countered with exactly one skill if you put a little thought into it (left as an exercise for the reader). No change to Expertise necessary. so lemme ask you how Touch RAngers weed out the idiots, when all you need to play a Touch Ranger is two fingers and..welll...i gues thats really all you need. My cat could to it if i just dangle some catnip on top of the keyboard.

If you ask me, all it does it gravitate the idiots to running nothing but Touchers in RA, completely the opposite of what you thought

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

29 Jun 2006 at 01:50 - 275

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Unless you're built to take down touch rangers, then you don't stand a whole lot of chance. Cripple doesn't hardly faze me on my W/N, it certainly doesn't faze me on an R/N. Unless i'm all alone, in which case I, like any other class, will most likely be screwed. I think you missed the [BULLSHIT][/BULLSHIT] tags. I've been running Cripshot w/ Apply and Hunters for a while now in ABs. I've come across plenty of Wammos who think Purge Conditions will solve everything. Many who think Mend Ailment will help them (which simply removes poison which gets reapplied 1 second later). I have the odd 'smart' 1 who uses Plague Touch. Its just a shame 9/10 times they never get close enough to use it, even if they do, its not entirely difficult to anticipate.
*zomg, Touchy is coming at me 'Distracting Shot' well i interrupted something... don't care what because its dead now anyway*
A Boon Prot/Blessed Light monk can remove that 1 condition you Plague Touch in no time. Keeping up with the Cripple, Poison and Bleeding that gets sent your way is alot harder, not to mention i can counter an entire Virulence with a single Troll Unguent. The majority of touch rangers that meet my Alliance team are usually dead before they can cast, especially when we have a Rigor Mortis necro around.

Wankey... stop whining. Just because a build can annihilate a warrior thats too dumb to run off (or just not start a fight in the first place maybe?), doesn't mean it should be nerfed. Learn to play another profession that doesn't suck so much vs a TR. Hell, go Air Ele and wind them up with Iron Mist, 90% slow = Touchy for you = GG.
They're no more predictable than any other build. "Hmm, W/E, wonder what he's gonna be... zomg, Eviscerate/Executioners spike and Shock" "N/Mo, is that Blood or FoC spike?" "Me/E, fast cast air spike i wonder?" "Rit/R, Rit Lord spirit spammer i wonder?". You know exactly what those builds are gonna do, you just don't know when quite as easily. You could say 'wow, lets nerf warriors, i KNEW he was gonna start attacking me to build up adren, they all do it!'. Attacking is the W equivilent of Touch spamming for an R/N. Get over it. A Shock Axe takes no skill to run either, its just wailing on people till you get some adren for a spike.

Lambentviper

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Noobs Just Took Halls [WTF]

Mo/E

29 Jun 2006 at 03:04 - 276

accept for Shock wars you need to plan your KD and sometimes even think on your toes if you need the KD early

Aisius

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Melbourne , Australia

Crazy Clan[CRAZ]

29 Jun 2006 at 08:08 - 277

well I'd like to try this for a warrior as a counter

- wary stance
- fear me
-To the limit
-Wild blow
-Bow attack from range then kill em with a good amount of adren.

yeah i think all guilds will wanna work on this one which is kindof a good chance to meet for scrimmage =P

edit: but as far as changing a 2nd profession I'm not really liking that idea, I'd prefer to keep it that I can play RA or AB at my leasure and not have to trek to senji everytime to do so. And if wary stance works how its supposed to shouldn't there skills be blocked ? Till I have enough adren for some Fear me shouts and maybe a KD then get them into stance . Not sure will have to test it out I guess.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

29 Jun 2006 at 10:34 - 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambentviper

accept for Shock wars you need to plan your KD and sometimes even think on your toes if you need the KD early

"Begins casting a long Binding Ritual with the Shock Axe on your tale"
"Cancels it just before he reaches you"
"zomg he hit me with Shock... never saw that coming"

Aisius

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Melbourne , Australia

Crazy Clan[CRAZ]

29 Jun 2006 at 11:29 - 279

So basically any axe build warrior/Mo has no counters for a touch ranger that doesnt involve standing in there touch range to apply dismember and axe rake. I can't see how this is balanced.

If I was to switch to a sword and use-
Hamstring If this attack hits, your target is Crippled for 3...13 seconds, slowing movement, with my uber zero points in swords will that 3 secs give me much time to kite kill, have another come and kill?

I could really care less about RA games as often when I go in them I take a PvP build designed for the task.

Since this is the forum area for ranger PvE, I was hoping to see the countless idea's/examples to counter touch rangers as a PvE axe wielding warrior/Mo, however I see none.

So I guess as I am destined to start seeing more TR's in AB games I will have to play only PvP created chars or make a particular build to counter them, while my W/Mo rots farming boring area's of the game, running, or assisting groups. Assumming that I want to be effective in those AB games.

I feel that the original concept of balance has been sucked out of GW's when faced with TR's as an axe warrior/Mo.
Please explain how I am wrong in this.

As posted already by another, the best counter is to charge and flee hoping they will pursue with a running stance maybe get off a wild blow but then what ? Meh goodbye W/Mo for pvp AB I guess.

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

29 Jun 2006 at 13:32 - 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisius

well I'd like to try this for a warrior as a counter

- wary stance
- fear me
-To the limit
-Wild blow
-Bow attack from range then kill em with a good amount of adren.

. Wary stance is a good idea in theory because expertise says that it reduces the cost of 'attack skills, traps and preparations'. So you're gonna be protected from these ranger's vampiric attacks.

Vampiric Touch must be an attack skill then because expertise reduces its cost right? Wrong. So in the end you can't block these skills because of a loophole in the game. I prefer to call it an exploit.

Alongisde that, most touch rangers use Dodge or Zojun's Haste which ends if you attack but doesn't end with these supposed necro 'attacks'. It is a definite candidate for the nerf stick and I want an official response to this touch ranger business because its pathetic ans requires no skill to run. Apparenltly Arenanet have said that espertise is working as inteded but i personally think that they are scared of the post-nerf flaming they get for applyingthese fixes.