Ranger Builds, Guides, and Tips
SnipiousMax
^ Now that I think about it, I am kinda curious why storm chaser is in just about everyone of your builds?
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Longbows are not the best bow in the game, nor will they ever be. Hornbows are perfect Barrage bows whether your willing to allow 'nooby' rangers to see that or not.
Do you?
Actually, I will edit the Thumper build, I spread too thin, but just get a life regarding the bow argument. That was so five pages ago.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Do you?
Actually, I will edit the Thumper build, I spread too thin, but just get a life regarding the bow argument. That was so five pages ago. No actually it was 13 pages ago on the first page. Nowhere in there did i force my opinion on you, i merely said Longbows are not the best. You seem to be telling everyone that a Longbow is THE best for practically all situations whether you like it or not. Oh and your still running 4 attributes (forgot that Shove was Tactics). How do you intend to spam Tigers Fury, Hammer attack skills, Shove and use Dodge effectively? Perhaps you should post some attributes along with these things instead of leaving them a guessing game. At this rate you may aswell just put this build on a Hammer Warrior and give them Tiger Stance/Frenzy instead of Tigers Fury. Theres no way you could use Tigers Fury often enough to make it effective with 4 attribute lines.
Sha Noran
Actually I usually run Frenzy but last time I suggested doing something without layers of my own defense everyone screamed bloody murder. I play a Thumper with Frenzy. Bring a Prot Monk and you're fine.
Sir Mad
To complete what Mooshee said:
Change (several times): Marksmanship: 12+1+1 Wilderness Survival: 9+3 Expertise: 9+1 (7 points left) to: Marksmanship: 10+3+1 Wilderness Survival: 11+1 Expertise: 9+1 (14 points left) Change: Marksmanship: 0 Wilderness Survival: 10+1+1 Expertise: 12+3 Beast Mastery: 8+1 (5 points left) to: Marksmanship: 0 Wilderness Survival: 11+1 Expertise: 11+1+3 Beast Mastery: 8+1 (9 points left)
Sha Noran
Those attribute distributions successfully gain you a few extra points left over at the end, but they fit no where. Good job with the math, I suppose, but that doesn't really gain you anything. It's merely important to get to the attribute levels suggested, whichever way you go about it.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
...that doesn't really gain you anything.
40 hit points in Mooshee's example. People pay alot of money for a +30 hp mod.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
If its not being stickied because of the way its written, then I no longer care about it being stickied. This isn't a "go ahead and try Incindiary Arrows to find out why it blows" its a "this skill blows, don't use it" thread. If you don't like it, I'm having trouble caring. I'm trying to help teach people what to use, not suggest lightly what they might consider doing.
You completely missed my point.
I'm not saying you should encourage people to try every skill and see why some are useful or not, but there is a difference between "most people tend not to use this skill in this because (insert rational explanation here)" and "Don't use this skill it blows". One of those statements treats the reader like a human being capable of evaluating a situation and gaining a greater understanding of a situation by seeing the full spectrum and one statement is an attempt to guide the reader blindy down the authors chosen path for no particular reason beyond that simple fact that the author said so. You don't have to encourage people to make bad decisions just because you didn't say something "sucks", offering a reasoning behind the inadequacy of that thing will generally convey your message just the same without insulting the reader's intelligence.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
To be honest, the reason I've used Hunter's shot in the past, and will continue to use it in the future is because it is a spammable +damage skill with the chance of a secondary effect that only costs five energy. So I don't agree that it's unreliable simply because the secondary effect doesn't always take effect.
Agreed, this is why Hunter's Shot may often fall into my skill bar in a high energy build (i.e. crippleshot and/or poison).
Sha Noran
I was referring to those in Sir Mad's example, which buy you essencially nothing. The numbers in Mooshee's post are wrong.
I run with... Expertise: 9+1=10 Wilderness Survival: 9+3=12 Marksmanship: 12+1+1=14 He suggested... Expertise: 9+1=10 Wilderness Survival: 10+1+1=12 Marksmanship: 11+2=13 The Superior Rune buys you one extra attribute point, as its designed to do. You can, of course, run with a Major, but you miss out on the attribute point.
SnipiousMax
<posted numbers were wrong>
Amy Awien
They may net some extra, for example:
Marksmanship: 12+1+1 {14}Quote: Wilderness Survival: 9+3 {12} Expertise: 9+1 {10} |
ws: 10+2
ex: 10+1
Gain: +5 health and +1 expertise. And major runes are cheaper then superior and minor runes.
Quote:
Yea, I know. None of that is possible. Sorry, it would be nice if it was.|
Marksmanship: 10+1+3 Wilderness Survival: 3+1 Expertise: 7+1 Channeling: 10 This could be changed to Marks: 10+1+3 Channeling: 10 Expertise: 7+1 Wilderness Survival: 9+1 If the levels are just suggestions then I'd mention that - and with suggestions I'd not detail wich runes and masks to use.
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
Expertise: 9+1=10 Wilderness Survival: 10+1+1=12 Marksmanship: 12+2=14 But this would also work Expertise 9+1=10 Wilderness Survival: 10+2=12 Marksmanship 12+1+1=14 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Amy Awien They may net some extra, for example:
Quote:
Marksmanship: 12+1+1 {14}
Wilderness Survival: 9+3 {12}
Expertise: 9+1 {10}
marks: 11+2+1
ws: 10+2
ex: 10+1
Gain: +5 health and +1 expertise. And major runes are cheaper then superior and minor runes. Yes, those numbers actually work, and would net you a small gain. If you really wanted to, you could buy all the additional armor that would take and make it happen.
Quote:
Sorry to say this, but this is the kind of arrogant response that upsets everybody since the beginning. This thread would be an excellent guide is you learnt how to listen at what people say.|
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
Quote:
Marksmanship: 10+1+3 Wilderness Survival: 3+1 Expertise: 7+1 Channeling: 10 This could be changed to Marks: 10+1+3 Channeling: 10 Expertise: 7+1 Wilderness Survival: 9+1 If the levels are just suggestions then I'd mention that - and with suggestions I'd not detail wich runes and masks to use. Hmm, I'm pretty sure that was a typo, and I had 16 in Mark, not 14. I'll fix that in the guide. But if you ran 14, yes, you could bring up Wilderness quite a bit.
HalPlantagenet
First belated thanks to Sha Noran for his guide which I find interesting, provocative and instructive. While I empathize with calls from XvArchonvX, Amy Awien, and other rangers much more experienced and capable than me, for more apparent objectivity I have to say that I prefer the guide as it is for a couple of reasons. First, it’s engaging and personal and therefore probably a bit more accessible to many than something more antiseptic. Second, Sha Noran doesn’t attempt to hide his opinions behind apparent objectivity. As a result, I read them for what they are: opinions formed by extensive, careful game play but not necessarily perfect or rigorously provable. Strongly stated opinions like that have an interesting effect on me. I mostly agreed with him and shared his preference for long bows, but after reading the guide for the first time, decided to research bows more carefully. As a result, I carry a very different set in my active quiver. My horn bow, which was languishing in storage is now with me all the time because it offers significant advantages in certain situations.
In short, Noran’s guide feels like the gruff, plain advice of an arrogant curmudgeonly master ranger. Who wouldn’t want to buy him a pint in a Pub, listen to him declaim while keeping your own critical faculties fully engaged? I expect he would want no less. On the other hand, that’s not to say, I wouldn’t mind taking a seat at another table to listen to XvArchonvX and Amy Awien or Huntmaster debate a point or even better provide comprehensive guide of their own ranger experience.
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalPlantagenet
First belated thanks to Sha Noran for his guide which I find interesting, provocative and instructive. While I empathize with calls from XvArchonvX, Amy Awien, and other rangers much more experienced and capable than me, for more apparent objectivity I have to say that I prefer the guide as it is for a couple of reasons. First, it’s engaging and personal and therefore probably a bit more accessible to many than something more antiseptic. Second, Sha Noran doesn’t attempt to hide his opinions behind apparent objectivity. As a result, I read them for what they are: opinions formed by extensive, careful game play but not necessarily perfect or rigorously provable. Strongly stated opinions like that have an interesting effect on me. I mostly agreed with him and shared his preference for long bows, but after reading the guide for the first time, decided to research bows more carefully. As a result, I carry a very different set in my active quiver. My horn bow, which was languishing in storage is now with me all the time because it offers significant advantages in certain situations.
In short, Noran’s guide feels like the gruff, plain advice of an arrogant curmudgeonly master ranger. Who wouldn’t want to buy him a pint in a Pub, listen to him declaim while keeping your own critical faculties fully engaged? I expect he would want no less. On the other hand, that’s not to say, I wouldn’t mind taking a seat at another table to listen to XvArchonvX and Amy Awien or Huntmaster debate a point or even better provide comprehensive guide of their own ranger experience. Well said, thanks for your support and I'm glad you liked the way it was written. I'm particularly glad that my guide inspired you to do more research on your own that lead you to forming your own opinions. My main goal with the guide was to supply Ranger's with some knowledge that they could build off of in order to raise the general Ranger IQ in the game. It seems it's doing so and that makes all the time spent well worth it.
SnipiousMax
<posted numbers were wrong>
Sha Noran
Nope, it doesn't. Sorry Max. :-)
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Agreed, this is why Hunter's Shot may often fall into my skill bar in a high energy build (i.e. crippleshot and/or poison).
In PvE i don't really see the use for Cripshot. Nor Hunters Shot. Even though you can guarantee the enemy will be moving if they're a warrior, many foes are immune to bleeding/poison and additionally many are either dead too quickly or really not suffering at all from the little bit of extra damage bleeding gives. Hunters Shot is probably the best skill a PvP ranger could bring (specifically in ABs). It doesn't just affect warriors, many areas are extremely high up and give the ranger a significant increase in range. Many people, casters or otherwise may be running past, most not watching what you are doing, or simply trying to flee.
Sir Mad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
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Yes, those attribute points fit somewhere.
Example:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by me
Change (several times):
Marksmanship: 12+1+1 Wilderness Survival: 9+3 Expertise: 9+1 (7 points left) to: Marksmanship: 10+3+1 Wilderness Survival: 11+1 Expertise: 9+1 (14 points left) You need 13 points to raise an attribute from 9 to 10, and therefore can have 11 expertise instead of 10. PS: it's not about doing math, it's just about applying the simple concept: to save the maximum attribute points, use a sup rune for your highest attribute.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Nope, it doesn't. Sorry Max. :-)
Well only being off by two measly points (202 instead of 200) without consulting the blasted chart isn't bad.
 I remember what I did now. Yes his numbers (and the ones I subsequently posted) were wrong. What I had done was take that worthless point out of expertise. So I guess it comes down to whether 1 energy per 15 energy skill or 40 hits is more important.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
<snip>
It's still a five energy skill for the additional damage, recharge, and secondary effect that occurs just as often as it doesn't. When I'm forced to spec lower in Expertise, I like running this because it provides a spamable decent attack, on top of it's secondary effect. The other options have twice the recharge, or twice the cost.
HalPlantagenet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mad
...to save the maximum attribute points, use a sup rune for your highest attribute.
This idea can be extended of course, whether you're running with 2 sups or 2 majors. Because the number of points required to change a level monotonically increases, you want use larger runes on the highest attribute lines. It's a simple, useful strategy but one that isn't given sufficient attention in most GW guides of any sort. Thanks Sir Mad for a clear, succinct statement.
QuixotesGhost
Quote:
QuixotesGhost: I suppose you're build is actually alright, but it seems to me that you aren't doing as much as you could be if you just focused on one of the two halves of your builds (Choking or Traps).
Well, the beauty of it is that I have several skills that do double duty. If you look at it, I have seven skills for the Oath trapping-side, Lightning, Serpent's, Oath, Throw Dirt, and the Traps. Then for the Choking Gas side you really only need 3 things, A Faster attack speed buff, Choking Gas, and a way to drop the downtime of Choking Gas, which the build all has. |
The point is to bring as much shutdown as possible against as many possible targets. I feel that traps (specifically Dust and Barbed to a lesser extent) are the best shutdown available to a ranger against physical and Choking Gas is the best shutdown available to a ranger against spellcasters. So you got: 1. Damage - Through straight Oath Shot Trapping. 2. Physical Shutdown - Through being able to Oath Shot Throw Dirt and Dust Trap. 3. Caster Shutdown - Through Choking Gas. I just pick whatever mode the current situation requires. Plus Oath Shot has another advantage to a Choking Gas Ranger, no need to spec into Beastmastery for Tiger's Fury for the attack speed boost becuase you can Oath Shot Lighting Reflexes, which lasts longer and has the happy side effect of 75% evade. I'm kinda disappointed though that noone else commentend on my build becuse I really think it's the awesomesauce and does something I've never seen any other ranger try.
Epinephrine
I've run pretty much the same build QuixotesGhost
 It's hard not to notice the high Wilderness and think "Hey, I could actually use my bow with Choking Gas; even if the damage is small it'll interrupt stuff".One of my favorite build to run right now is a choking gas pet build; the pet is the damage source as it has only 2 in marksmanship; 13 Wilderness 13 Expertise 11 BM Practiced Stance [e] Choking Gas Tiger's Fury Needling Shot Predator's Pounce Disrupting Lunge Comfort Animal Charm Animal Puts out lots of interruption, has damage via a pet, Disrupting Lunge gives you a way to interrupt even while re-applying the Choking Gas, pet serves as a target up front; effect on party is to add an extra tank, deliver some damage (not horrible) via pet and interrupt a lot. It's fun to run I find. Yes, I could have done the typical Flurry R/W to run the speed boost and had arrow damage, but then you lack an interrupt while re-applying the CG, and you don't get a pet tanking.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
It's still a five energy skill for the additional damage, recharge, and secondary effect that occurs just as often as it doesn't. When I'm forced to spec lower in Expertise, I like running this because it provides a spamable decent attack, on top of it's secondary effect. The other options have twice the recharge, or twice the cost.
What would you class as low expertise? Imo Expertise should never be below 9. I see what you mean though, i wouldn't really consider it personally though, the additional damage it does is nothing major in comparison to what a prep or IAS could do. Although i guess the bleeding gets overlooked a bit though.
QuixotesGhost, isn't it a little bit energy heavy? Even at very high expertise traps soon rack up a high energy cost if you lay plenty. Not to mention you can only really do 1 or the other, lay traps or interrupt casters, you can guarantee when you go to do 1 the other would've been more useful. Its better to just concentrate on 1, leave interrupting to the mesmer and stick with traps or go interrupting and annoy the mesmer by beating him to it ^^
Amy Awien
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost
I'm kinda disappointed though that noone else commentend on my build becuse I really think it's the awesomesauce and does something I've never seen any other ranger try.
It's very hard to gauge that build from the description. I do have some doubt about using AoE damage in PvE, scattering aggro is the last thing I want, especially when travelling with henchies. Perhaps that is why you see so few Trappers in PvE?
Choking Gas has some downtime, though possible not much (and as a note normal CG's use flurry and not Tiger's Fury)
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mad
Sorry to say this, but this is the kind of arrogant response that upsets everybody since the beginning. This thread would be an excellent guide is you learnt how to listen at what people say.
I thought my post might come off the wrong way; I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I still think the information you posted, though accurate, still does essentially nothing. 11 Expertise is no more a breakpoint than is 10, which is where I was. You can't even consider another breakpoint until 12, so like I said, you're right about the math and good job with it, but it just... doesn't do anything.
Sir Mad
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalPlantagenet
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sha Noran I thought my post might come off the wrong way; I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. In this case, sorry for my rude comment.
Quote:
If you ever end up in my neck of the woods I would be glad to pretend to be a arrogant curmudgeonly master ranger if it would get you to buy me a pint. |
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
I still think the information you posted, though accurate, still does essentially nothing. 11 Expertise is no more a breakpoint than is 10, which is where I was. You can't even consider another breakpoint until 12, so like I said, you're right about the math and good job with it, but it just... doesn't do anything.
Here I cannot agree. First off, 11 expertise is a breakpoint for skills costing 25 energy. You use this repartition of attribute points in many builds, including your BHA build. And of course players using this guide may sometimes want to replace one skill in a build using this setup by concussion shot.
On the other hand expertise is not only about reducing the energy cost of non spell skills, but also, as any attribute, about buffing the skills of this attribute. And there is at least one expertise skill in 90% of the builds posted. Of course, increasing the duration of WD or throw dirt by 1 second will not completely change your game play. But it's just as if you were like: "why to bother with this 2nd attribute quest as having 11+x or 12+x marksmanship won't make a huge difference". See what I mean?
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalPlantagenet
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~.^
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
In PvE i don't really see the use for Cripshot. Nor Hunters Shot. Even though you can guarantee the enemy will be moving if they're a warrior, many foes are immune to bleeding/poison and additionally many are either dead too quickly or really not suffering at all from the little bit of extra damage bleeding gives. Hunters Shot is probably the best skill a PvP ranger could bring (specifically in ABs). It doesn't just affect warriors, many areas are extremely high up and give the ranger a significant increase in range. Many people, casters or otherwise may be running past, most not watching what you are doing, or simply trying to flee.
Nor do I run a crippleshot build in PvE, but I do frequent a Apply Poison build that can run a bit high in energy and in such case do choose Hunter's Shot for it's low energy cost damage bonus. Since I generally try to spread poison to many targets before settling on a single target, I can generally catch approaching enemies with Hunter's as well as any fleeing targets. The bleeding is a bonus and is not meant to be a reliable reason to bring Hunter's Shot, but in my style of play, I can often find good use of it. However I will not say that it is best in most builds.
As for QuixotesGhost, I am very interested in your build. Generally I run Practiced Stance when I use a Choking Gas build, but Oath Shot is an interesting idea. I would have to say that the way you use your build would definately make or break it. While I know many look down on the use of traps in a build that uses bows, I believe that it can be justified if used right. I'll have to try your build sometime, but it may be a while since I'm currently on vacation at the moment and am using a computer that isn't running Guild Wars. 
Koolman
Sha rangers suck didn't you hear? Lol inside joke..
Anyway, good guide its been helping me a lot with my Ranger, its just too bad Guru wants to nick pick everything and won't make this a sticky because there is no other ranger guild that even compares to this.
Sha Noran
Haha, thanks for the support Koolman, really glad to hear its been helping your Ranger. I guessed it was you from your name before i even opened up the thread; classic.
Jagan
Sha owns, and... That's pretty much it.
Sha Noran
Well, I'm glad someone thinks so. ;-)
Ren Wuying
What is a good touch ranger setup for R/Me, and how to utilize it?
I play PvE only
Sha Noran
...
Touch Rangers are based on the use of Necromancer touch skills combined with Ranger Expertise to cut down on their cost. R/Me isn't going to work dude.
Dyon Adell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Wuying
What is a good touch ranger setup for R/Me, and how to utilize it?
I play PvE only LOL PWNED. But hey, R/Me can touch too. Blackout FTW!! xD EDIT: Oh yeah Sha, I have this better build for a machine gunner. I used it everytime we farmed Sorrow's Furnace, and works for me everytime. Thought this'd be a good place to share it. Marksmanship - 12 + 3 + 1 Expertise - 12 + 1 Optional Attribute - 3 + 1(if it's primary) Res Sig Dual Shot Punishing Shot {Elite} Savage Shot Read the Wind Needling Shot Whirling Defense Optional Skill (preferably a heal skill) Why I think this is better over your suggested machine-gunner build: With Read the Wind on, you can dish out damage with the generic Spike combo way faster than a normal Quick Shot spam(tried myself many times). Dual -> Punishing -> Savage should leave half of the mobs with 50% health. If your target is a Warrior, you might need 1-2 more shots or just repeat the combo. Or perhaps if a party member is aiding you, his life will be down to 50% even faster. Once his health is under 50% for him, it's game over. Truly, no normal mob can survive a constant degen of 36 health(21 from needling, 10 from RtW, 5 from vampiric bow). I have never failed to solo any mob to death under 50% health with Needling Shot UNLESS it's those irritating bosses like you said(I will try your evil degen build against them ;D ). First 50% of health covered by Dual -> Punishing -> Savage, later 50% finished off by Needling. Both parts are way faster than a Quick Shot spam.
Sha Noran
Yes, the old school Quick Shot spam build (any of them really) are rather outdated. Back in the day when you could just mash one (assuming QS was on your one button :-P) and fire it way, way faster than once per second, it pwned way hard. Now though, not so great; I'll probably edit the guide to reflect that and put in something like yours. Good call.
XvArchonvX
Aye, I've been playing with the Read the Winds + Needling Shot combo lately. I found that it works rather well with Frenzy (although you will definately need a backup stance to cancel frenzy if you start taking damage). I found that RtW + Needling + a Vamp Flatbow + Frenzy can push out really high speed damage. I also liked Dodge as a cancel stance since it works well to not only cancel Frenzy, but get you to a safe spot quickly. I'm sure Tiger's Fury will work also, but I've never been a big fan of that skill since it does tend to spread the attributes a bit thin. Frenzy with good situational awareness used on a ranger (who generally sits in a safer ranged position) seems to work better imo, but as long as you don't bring Flurry (unless you are running a Choking Gas build and aren't concerned with damage), the combo should work fine.
Meta Physical
Just really had one thing to say - Nice figgin' job
My Ranger approves, heartily, and I'll be owning much more fluently because of the guide - I'm bidding on a nice Storm Bow as we speak Another question, however - are touch rangers a viable idea in PvE, truly, as opposed to, say, some of the range-based choices? -Meta
Sha Noran
Meta Physical: Thanks. :-D
Touch Rangers, while viable in PvE, they generally are not a good idea in group situations (much the same way Touchies aren't terribly viable in larger, more team based PvP). They have better survivability than, say, an Assassin, but much, much less than a Warrior. The best thing Touch Rangers do in PvE is solo bosses for their Greens. |
