Can't Touch This - Hunting Vampires

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I was continuing on from ubermancer's post *Brushes out the creases in his suit and bows* Evilsod Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 England Lievs Death Squad [LDS] 24 Jun 2006 at 18:19 - 27 Quote: Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri Heh. Well, for reference purposes, last night in a single AB I killed 4-5 touch rangers 2-3 times each with a variation on the build I posted (I ditched clumsiness for Kitah's Burden, the Factions copy of Ethereal Burden, so I could have two available.) And danced the jig on their bodies each time. And the stupid touchers triggered the damage from Ineptitude *every time.* That plus deep wound and 9 degen equalled dead touch ranger real quick like. That happened in the first of many ABs i did yesterday 3 Touch Rangers and 1 other Ranger in a group met us at the side. We stood on a hill for a bit as they were using Vamp Gaze too. Then we both charged... Crippling Shot w/ Apply Poison and Hunters Shot, sit back and laugh Plus 1 of my allies had Rigor Mortis. Another 1 was a touch ranger so they just negated each other and our monk. Safe to say we wiped them out quite well... although we did get some help from the Elite Elementalists that we were stood next to, but who remembers that part SnipiousMax Perfectly Elocuted Join Date: Sep 2005 25 Jun 2006 at 03:12 - 28 Quote: Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri ...touchers triggered the damage from Ineptitude *every time.* I knew it!! Dragannia Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2006 Venatio Illuminata [VEIL] Me/N 25 Jun 2006 at 03:36 - 29 Quote: Originally Posted by Terra Xin My lady, you are a Mesmer, please use phrases that are.... classier, than "leet" ^^ I'm just hoping that Touch Ranger phase will die out soon, I'm beginning to target them over monks... I don't get it Avarre. Why does everyone automatically assume you're a female? Guh, this is why I don't play female characters. Everyone instantly assumes you're a hawt chix, even though 99.9999999999% of female characters in any game are male. Avarre Bubblegum Patrol Join Date: Dec 2005 Singapore Armed Forces 25 Jun 2006 at 04:11 - 30 Quote: Originally Posted by Dragannia I don't get it Avarre. Why does everyone automatically assume you're a female? Guh, this is why I don't play female characters. Everyone instantly assumes you're a hawt chix, even though 99.9999999999% of female characters in any game are male. Because imagining a crazy, power-farming, female mesmer is alot more fun. ubermancer Jungle Guide Join Date: Jul 2005 ******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE] 25 Jun 2006 at 05:32 - 31 Quote: Originally Posted by Avarre Because imagining a crazy, power-farming, female mesmer is alot more fun. You have a female avatar, that contributes to it. Eaimirth Etaivella Jungle Guide Join Date: Aug 2005 Seekers of the Apocalypse E/ 25 Jun 2006 at 06:41 - 32 Crippling anguish is the best answer on paper; however complications diminish the power of it. -popularity of boonprot -stupidity of teammates Black out is grand, as are all purpose interrupts. Distracting shot is...well as great as it always is, too bad its not the mesmer's. Diversion I question; say you are successful in having them "fodder" their entire bar allowing them to cast their touch 8 times. 65x8=520...wow you're dead. Gee that really stinks...ya know being dead. You could make the arguement that using skills as "fodder" uses energy, but I could just as easily mute it by saying that diversion+MoR will use just as much if not more...so I'm pretty sure we can ignore that. IW can win against the ranger; however it is very very close and difficult to do so. (MUST be Me/R, MUST use pet, MUST use pet attacks, MUST have some of said attacks hit, etc. etc.) So this leaves us with energy denial. Which is great to be honest. It doesn't rely on teammates intellegence, nor the opposition not having a counter. Using energy tap, ether feast, and energy drain will put a large dent into a touch ranger's energy pool. Following up with simple blood spike nukes (life siphon shadow strike vamparic gaze etc.) and the fight should end quickly and decisivly. *looks at Avarre comments and sighs* Avarre Bubblegum Patrol Join Date: Dec 2005 Singapore Armed Forces 25 Jun 2006 at 07:04 - 33 Quote: Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella *looks at Avarre comments and sighs* On paper, your whole thing works. In reality, it doesn't. You're not going to face touchers outside TA/RA/AB. In TA, typically touchers don't team with monks (they have selfheals, so they think). Degen is the most powerful tool to kill them. Even if they are teamed with a monk, you're supposed to be able to defeat that to get your hexes through anyway, or you will have a serious problem versus a real time. In AB, you can kite them out and rip them apart to your leisure. I sigh when I read your posts, they lack substance. Dragannia Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2006 Venatio Illuminata [VEIL] Me/N 25 Jun 2006 at 07:12 - 34 Quote: Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella Diversion I question; say you are successful in having them "fodder" their entire bar allowing them to cast their touch 8 times. 65x8=520...wow you're dead. Gee that really stinks...ya know being dead. You could make the arguement that using skills as "fodder" uses energy, but I could just as easily mute it by saying that diversion+MoR will use just as much if not more...so I'm pretty sure we can ignore that. You realise that Touch Rangers are about the most predicatable things in Guild Wars? They walk up to someone. Oh, what are they going to do? Use Vamp Gaze? No, TRs walk up to someone and go: Vamp Touch, Vamp Bite, Vamp Touch, Vamp Bite, and etc. Now, if you have Diversion, you wait for them to walk up to someone, and with FC, you cast it on them. Now it goes something like: Vamp Touch, Vamp Bite...Vamp Bite............. Hurray, you've rendered one person on their team USELESS. Now, use Ether Feast or have a Monk heal you. Eaimirth Etaivella Jungle Guide Join Date: Aug 2005 Seekers of the Apocalypse E/ 25 Jun 2006 at 07:27 - 35 Quote: Originally Posted by Avarre On paper, your whole thing works. In reality, it doesn't. You're not going to face touchers outside TA/RA/AB. In TA, typically touchers don't team with monks (they have selfheals, so they think). Degen is the most powerful tool to kill them. Even if they are teamed with a monk, you're supposed to be able to defeat that to get your hexes through anyway, or you will have a serious problem versus a real time. In AB, you can kite them out and rip them apart to your leisure. I sigh when I read your posts, they lack substance.

Perhaps you misunderstood me (yet again, "Avarre comments" being the subject, not "Avarre's comments"); I was commenting on the posts about you off the topic of the thread in your self pursuit of self fame which continues to agrivate me. It still mystifys me how you change every topic you post into a "personal blog" about yourself...I find it...annoying.

Of course you arn't going to face touch rangers outside of TA/RA. That is obvious. I don't see your point here.

In RA anguish is often rended useless as people literally stand next to the ranger and attack, cast spells, or whatever and allow the ranger to kill them+gain life while doing so.

Show me any class that can take down a boonprot solo and you have my kudos for life, until then don't give me any of this "you're supposed to defeat that to get your hexes through" bullshit
Maybe I am just inefficient with hexes or...not

Lets look at the touch ranger abit more in depth,
natural armor renders elementalists next to useless (as if they were useful...)
stances+ailments render warriors and assassins next to useless
ritualists have no direct answer to them, in line with the elementalists
necromancers have no direct answer outside of lifetaps...in which they get beat by the ranger, no direct necromancer hexes affect the ranger
rangers have cripple, which is often plague'd to someone else other than that little to no answers excluding distracting shot which is difficult to time (or many claim although I have had no difficulty timing it)
mesmers have slow hexes, shut down skills, interrupts, and energy denial.
-slow hexes are great if your team cooperates with you and they are not removed.
-shut down skills are great for buying time, NOT for killing the target (in this case) (blackout obviously being the better of the two vs a touch ranger)
-interrupts are in the same class as shut down skills
-energy denial will work, 100% of the time, does not rely on teammates or opposing team weakness.

So we have slowing movement hexes and energy denial...or to make it easier
illusion magic+fast casting+1 other(optional)
or
inspiration magic/domination magic+fast casting+1 other(optional)

Both are valid answers, however draining 20 energy off the top layer of the ranger the moment he enters battle greatly appeals to me. It is a sure fire; non conditional path to victory. Hexes are conditional energy denial is not. Now by which one is more effective in their giving "prime scenarios" and probability of those scenarios depends on the metagame and the player. However I believe energy denial to be the better option of the two regarding a counter for the ranger and for other builds in general.

Lack substance? Think again Avarre. Wanna withdraw that last comment? I'm williing to bet it was misdirected due to misunderstanding of my post.

-edit-

Show me any class that can take down a boonprot solo and you have my kudos for life, until then don't give me any of this "you're supposed to defeat that to get your hexes through" bullshit Maybe I am just inefficient with hexes or...not Boonprots have 1, sometimes 2 hex removals to target on other people. If your build can be comepletely countered by veil and inspired (the usual max being brought), then you are an embarrasment to mesmers. Cover hexing and using quick-recharging hexes, as well as moderate pressure on the boonprot are enough in TA/AB/Aspen/Jade to apply the effects you want. Nobody said you had to take down the boonprot - the purpose is to outpressure their healing capabilities, especially in the case of degen. We are not discussing GvG because... if you are losing to touchers in GvG... lol? As far as you show, you don't run any hex builds anyway. Not of the type any of us are talking about. Your logic once again returns to 'diversion sucks, blackout is better so thats good'. Quote: Lack substance? Think again Avarre. Wanna withdraw that last comment? I'm williing to bet it was misdirected due to misunderstanding of my post. No, I'm pretty sure I'll stay with that. Eaimirth Etaivella Jungle Guide Join Date: Aug 2005 Seekers of the Apocalypse E/ 25 Jun 2006 at 14:13 - 39 Alrighty; LET THE DUEL COMMENCE! Even a focus ranger can focus swap; however I have never seen a ranger carry focus swapping gear simply because of two reasons; 1. They either do not consider energy denial a threat (simply because they have never encountered it or they assume it will be on another more promising target IE their boonprot) or 2. They are not experienced enough to know how to focus swap. Generally its 1 or 2; but I'm pretty sure we can mute the point of ranger focus swapping. I carry -energy gear into RA, but thats because I'm paranoid. I'm more than willing to bet if you took wither+malaise and cast it on every touch ranger in sight, less than 1/100 would be able to deal with it. Of course anything "isn't a threat" if you can outkite it, however these are touch rangers bringing dodge, escape, or god knows what with them. I'm not saying that they are impossible to kite, I am saying that they are significantly the most difficult build TO kite (with exclusion to say...normal rangers and the random elementalist). Without a slow skill on them 24/7 they are impossible to kite. I'm not slamming degen, I am saying that most RA players do not understand the novel concept of "running when they are out matched" so the elementalist will continue to nuke the touch ranger at point blank range because the ranger is hurting him. He does not understand that he should run from warriors, touch rangers, mesmers carrying blackout, etc. The idea of retreat is non-existent. Heck I've had matches were only two people zone in, one being myself and the other person being a necro (I assumed minion master simply because of this next action)...He rushes out to face the opposing team! By himself, I do not know if he expected me to follow him or if he thought he could take them all; personally I do not comprehend what got into his head. Regardless the other two members of our team loaded in and asked "where is the necro?" anyway we won the match despite the stupidity of our fallen friend. Point, most RA players are stupid. -little focus swapping -no kiting Quote: No halfway decent player can die to touch rangers alone, simply because they are so easy to avoid and negate. This isn't even a questionable factor. Well lets see...warriors yep, they die. Elementalists, double yep. Necromancers, yep. Ritualists, usally. Monks nope. Mesmers, nope if carrying temporary shutdown, slows, or energy denial. I have no idea where you get the train of thought that "touch rangers are not a threat" They are, that is why this thread is here. To obtain the best build to counter the threat. Now to take the questions about me. Quote: As far as you show, you don't run any hex builds anyway

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'diversion sucks, blackout is better so thats good' Ohh joy a quote about me which I have never actually stated. I first off have never said "diversion sucks" and I have always said it is a valid and powerful skill. I have however said that "blackout is better". Quote: No, I'm pretty sure I'll stay with that. 'k your choice, I refuse to stoop to the level of insults and you can choose to go there if you wish however I will not follow. Avarre Bubblegum Patrol Join Date: Dec 2005 Singapore Armed Forces 25 Jun 2006 at 14:49 - 40 Quote: Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella Alrighty; LET THE DUEL COMMENCE! Even a focus ranger can focus swap; however I have never seen a ranger carry focus swapping gear simply because of two reasons; 1. They either do not consider energy denial a threat (simply because they have never encountered it or they assume it will be on another more promising target IE their boonprot) or 2. They are not experienced enough to know how to focus swap. Touch rangers without that much basic knowledge lack the tactical thought to avoid spamming into diversion. You cannot assume your enemy is stupid, ever. Quote: Generally its 1 or 2; but I'm pretty sure we can mute the point of ranger focus swapping. I carry -energy gear into RA, but thats because I'm paranoid. I'm more than willing to bet if you took wither+malaise and cast it on every touch ranger in sight, less than 1/100 would be able to deal with it.