Anti-"Freeloader" Extremists?

This is when you need to realise that gaming is a pass-time activity and you do it in your spare time. I don't even open Guild Wars, or any other game, unless I'm sure I'm not doing anything for the next couple of hours.

I think that too many people either have their priorities out of whack or don't know some simple self control.

Like I said, not an issue for me because I *gasp* go before a mission and don't drink silly amount during it.

To be honest, if my ignore list was longer, I'd ignore everyone who didn't think about having a drink/pee or even considering their free-time before committing to a mission.

Say, for instance, that my wife is cooking the food? What am I going to do? "OMG SUZANNE! I AM PWNING SHADOWS IN TEH FISSURE NOW! DONT MAKE FOOD!"

So eat beforehand? Sounds to me like your priorities are just in the wrong places.

ha - he has a good point

just realize group may break up over an afk longer than 5min

no one likes to wait

If you knew your wife was cooking, don't go into the FoW. Like I said, prioritise.

I think the issue is with bringing a single-player mentality to a multi-player game. In a single-player game, like making a puzzle or knitting a sweater, you can easily pause and do something else. In a multi-player game you have to take into consideration that others reserved time for their game, and you're wasting it by expecting them to sit on their hands and wait for you.

Even though some groups are willing to do that, it shouldn't be considered a 'right', and you can't fault others for wanting to spend their free time having fun instead of waiting for a stranger to do whatever. You're not playing alone, there's actual people on the other end of the line, with actual lives just as important as yours, and not being able to see them doesn't mean you are justified in putting yourself before all others.

these same issues arise with online mmorpgs that raid

raids may be 1 to 8+ hours and have the same issues
- advance communication
- coordination of taking breaks

As I said, it's like a car trip. A car trip has a goal, and sometimes has a set time to do it in. If someone in the car is constantly saying "can we pull over?" I will say "why didn't you go before we set off?" And frankly, I shouldn't have to say that to anybody who isn't a small child.

You also overlook the fact that not everyone lives in a college dorm room where they can just walk five feet, slap some Ramen noodles into the microwave and get back in 1 minute.

As stated above, what if some's wife/husband makes the meal or some such, you don't know that they are fixing it/done yet, you're in the mission for 30 minutes, s/he calls and says the food's done.

What are you going to do? Let it get cold for another hour thirty minutes?

simple solution: before entering a mission/zoning out of a town, the game asks everyone in the team:


Have you gone to the bathroom? We're not going to be stopping along the way. Go now. I don't care if u dont need to go, just go. And have a kit-kat too.

YES(mom) | NO/cancel

"No, we must wait Who-Knows-How-Long because He went eating with Suzanne... No, I don't know why seven of us must waste time because of one person. No, I don't know why he didn't eat before mission. Ask him yourself."

Nasty? But true

-Now thats not always true.. I dont mind to wait.

If they do take more than 5 minutes.. let em freeload.

Im a easy-going kind of guy

Again, discussion is very important.

You need to pick up your kids?
Tell your group. No, don't just tell them. Talk to them. Think they'll be okay? No? Help figure out a way to fix the problem of losing someone. This sort of thing really can't be helped but you're still going to be blamed. My guildmate and I do a lot of missions together and sometimes he has to go pick up his wife. The thing is, he tells me that he's probably going to need to beforehand.
And also, maybe this isn't the game you should be playing? In team-oriented games, one of the most important things in players is reliability. If you leave in the middle of a mission, a quest, etc., you're not being reliable and whether or not your unreliability is justified you're still going to be hated.

If you're getting interrupted often, as you would with family, then you shouldn't be playing such time intensive games.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Last time I checked, you could talk to wives. Ask them things about what they're doing and what they have planned.

Example: 'what time is dinner tonight honey?'

Works similarly for mothers.

Don't play games while she's cooking something for you, or rather, don't get into a party with other human players. That's not so hard, now, is it? And that's one of those things that you can plan for, even days in advance. Not an excuse to leave your party high and dry.

Nice ad hominem, but that doesn't apply to me.

Usually when someone is cooking for me they make a point of telling me in advance "dinner is at such and such a time". This is to make sure that person is not off doing something else at the time.

Like pee-break timings, I thought this was a common thing everyone knew in life?

A frigging men. I think a few people in this thread have no concept of communication and planning. Period.

I think the issue here is that some people get upset for not waiting 6 minutes to go and do things that they have to do and some people get upset over someone not being 100% fanaticaly playing their 100bit game to their satisfaction without wasting a single second.

Seriously, next time you complain about people wasting your precious 2 minutes, do /age and see how long you have been playing in the last week and a half.

By the way, Prinicipia, is it really necisarry to make 5 posts about how well you were potty trained? -.-

I think you overlooked the point of my posts, I do use the restroom before a mission or quest run, and I do get a drink before hand. Sometimes though we take so long I run out of drink or need to use the restroom, now doesn't that suck. Was it my fault? Hell no, I did think ahead, I did get some food and drink before hand. I didn't know my party was going to suck ass and that we'd be out there forever.

(Now, note that I'm not trying to speak as if it's me who goes afk during missions. I've got this room loaded up with enough food that there's no need to move, the bathroom is about 10 ft to my left, and the fridge is right outside my door. If I somehow need to do something, I can go and get it before they notice I've been gone typically. This isn't an issue for me, but I'm speaking for those who may not be so fortunate.)

And also, I open up GuildWars when...I want to play guild wars. Does that mean I can't have a drink with me while I do so? Hell no.

And to say you open up guild wars when you know you won't be doing anything for a few hours...can you really sit for hours without having to use the bathroom, have the phone ring, or...anything? If so, you're lucky and one of the only people I know able to do such a thing.

I mean hell, every now and then someone will ring my doorbell. A couple days ago someone rang my doorbell while I was sitting here doing Thunderhead Keep 'cause I was bored. I didn't plan that, I had no idea who the hell the guy was (just wanted some opinion on a church group or something). If I need to get up for something like that, and my group doesn't want to wait. Fine, no problem.

For the things you can plan, of course you should plan ahead. But if something happens to screw up your plans, and you need to go afk for a sec, it's just stupid if they won't wait a minute for you. (If you're gone longer than the amount you say you're going to be, then by all means I'd say they should kick, but you know what I mean.)

Well, Sagius, some people don't like to waste time, waste being a subjective thing.

Some people have other things to do and have little free time to play. When they do play, they want to get the most out of it. What may be piddly amounts of time to you may be a large chunk of their free time.

As was already discussed, communication is very important. It won't get rid of the event but it will make everybody hate you less.

Turn the game off. Sounds too logical I know. You even say that the game is not that important. Why can't you just turn it off and do the mission later?

No offense, but from what I can tell you seem to have bladder problems and some chronic eating/drinking disorder if you need to sit there stuffing your face at the PC all the time. Consult a doctor.

Is it necessary to make five or more posts about how poorly you were and how you and your wife do not plan meals? Christ man, get over yourself.

Edit: Condensed into one post.

I dont think you are used to online gaming with other human players for periods longer than 30 minutes

- it takes communication and coordination for breaks

If you know you're going to be stuffing your face, why not keep the food ready at the computer for during a mission? I don't need to ask my team to hold up when eating a snack, I just need to leave my shortcut keys for a moment, grab the waffle, put it in my mouth and take a good bite, put it back and onwards we go. Takes 5 seconds at most.

The solution to all these problems is strapping a water bladder to your back with a drinking tube and affixing your computer to the bathroom wall.

I think some of us have already figured it out.

Communication.


You said "brb" and left. No-no.

Again, it looks as if you're at fault.

Discuss first that you need to do something.

Leaving abruptly will always make you the bad guy, justified or not.

Hey hey hey hey hey hey...hold it. You obviously overlooked the part of the post where I said "Now, note that I'm not trying to speak as if it's me who goes afk during missions. I've got this room loaded up with enough food that there's no need to move, the bathroom is about 10 ft to my left, and the fridge is right outside my door. If I somehow need to do something, I can go and get it before they notice I've been gone typically. This isn't an issue for me, but I'm speaking for those who may not be so fortunate."

I'm trying to think of possibilities that might be true for OTHER people. I myself rarely if ever go afk on any mission or quest that I'm on. I just took some henchmen and killed everything I could in the zones from droknar's to beacon's perch a few times. I haven't used the bathroom since...hell...I don't even remember, problably like 6...7...hours ago, something like that. I phrased it with "I" because I'm used to that sort of writing style so that's how I phrased it.

Ok, now that we've got those facts straight and my ass is covered. Continue on.

I do agree with Pie that some groups are too impatient and cant even wait 2minutes (rarely see this tho)

but more often in my gameplay,
I see the AFK person who is gone for 15 minutes+


players have different "patience" thresholds of
- how long they will wait for an AFK
- how tolerant they are of freeloaders


personally,
I never leave missions unless most the party already left

I hate AFKs that last longer than 2minutes but I put up with them nonetheless

Alright PieXags, I see your point of view now.

Now if only Truthbarron would get back here and aknowledge my points.

UPDATE:

To make it easier for everyone, a female dwarven NPC will approach you as you exit an outpost with said question. This character will be known as "Mother Blechrengorer the second". She is quite homely and is proud of each and every one of you.

I agree.
I sometimes use the cinematics for bathroom-breaks, walks to the fridge, relaxing, walking around the room to check if the real world still exists...

Can't do that on quests though.

But a simple "brb" might just not be enough.
Talking to your team helps a lot. Explaining to them that it'll be <n> minutes helps, because they can time it.

Me, I dont want to "let" you eat. Eat on your own time, if you have other things to do in real life, dont get yourself involved in something that you cant commit too. It's rude as hell. Do you see me wasting your time? No. Im not saying you cant run and grab your food, but if you think it's alright to run, grab your food, then chomp away while I do the work for you, then you need to hire some parents to teach you some manners.

This raises an interesting point, actually. I can't speak for everyone, but I've noticed that the ones who just type "brb" are also the ones who do not communicate during a mission except to say "heal plz" or "rez plz".

Not sure about you guys, but I find communication important during missions, and the "silent unless plz" people really bug me.

I can agree with that statement. I'm all about communication. First thing I do when I join a group is say hello, talk to people, remind them of skills they might need to bring, ask if they have TS or Ventrilo, etc. Communication is a big part of any group IMO. If by some chance I ever had to go afk, it would always be more "Hold on one moment if you would, need to grab a drink, 20 seconds" or something like that. The more you communicate the less chance there is they'll kick you I'd have to say.

I see your points about not wasting other people's time. But if you can't wait one minute when someone needs a bio break, then you are obviously taking this game too seriously. It's a big difference whether someone needs a 2 min potty break or goes afk for 30 minutes to prepare dinner. It's real life guys, and some things can't be planned. There might be a person ringing at your door, or a phone call or whatever. None of these things take very long to do and IMHO I can expect my team to allow me one or two minutes afk per hour of gaming without immediately kicking me. You can't expect people's life to come to a complete halt just because you're in a party with them. Usually in my teams we use other people's afk time for - god forbid - chatting. Try it out, it's fun and you get to know people better.

Adults? How many Ascalon citizens's are adults in what we like to call "the real world"

But even adults may have a bladder situation now and then. Like in the summer, it's hot, you drink like 1 liter of water during a mission.

You don't sweat all the water you dring.
So during very long missions/quests, I think, a small break now and then should be allowed.
Being stuck in a mission with somebody hitting the bushes is a nice opportunity to get to know your team better.

Ask them about books they read, and if they can't read, ask them about movies they've seen recently. Works for most people.

I expect anyone who is not a small child to be able to control/plan all of these things, as I've said over and over. I don't find them reasonable excuses, and would probably make a good school teacher.

These things are what I call "random eventualities" and don't even need forgiving as long as the person says "BRB guys, there's someone at the door" instead of "BRB" then going AFK for who knows how long.

I agree that some things can be forgiven, such as there being an underlying medical condition, but when it's simply a fact of bad planning then I honestly have trouble taking that person seriously.

Please explain this to Sagius Truthbarron. Thank you.

I think you missed a few posts, Fantus. Heh, those points have already been covered.

To be brief, my point was that it wasn't so much 2 minutes gone as it was "How many minutes will the actually be gone?".

There is a difference between a short 2 minute break and 30 minutes of fixing your keyboard pullout. But unless you're in a group of people you know and who know you and trust you, you'll be hated for disappearing.

Even if you are in a group of people who know you leaving isn't a good thing. I still get annoyed by my friends if they tell me they'll be AFK for a few minutes and forget all about the game and end up taking a nap.

I don't get it. What's so difficult about keeping some munchies within arm's reach?

I recall back when BWE was all the GW time I'd get. And it would -always- fall on a weekend when I'd have things I can't get out of. What then? Prioritise what time I have left of course.

I'd plan fastfood that's also nearfood like a fiend. Biscuits, crackers. Those lovely Dutch butter cookies that come in a round tin? Raid the bloody supermarket, "Gimme all your ramen and preprocessed meats!!!eleven!1" Bottles of water (have to drink healthy when you're eating crap like that) scattered around my floor for quick swigs when I'm auto-following my group leader.

Granted, I still afk a lot due to reasons of the feline persuasion, but then that's why I play with friends who know how it's like (or own felines of their own). Most of the time I solo or use henchies precisely because I know I'll end up being called away more often than not.

If I know evening's coming around and my lovely significant other is puttering around in the kitchen, I'd know better than to commit to an hour long mission. Isn't that the logical thing to do? (Or not do in this case?)

For whomever was saying it's just 6mins, have patience. Well, there's 7 other people there. That's 42mins total worth of manpower being wasted. By a total stranger.

I don't know about you but my tolerence level for total strangers wasting my time is pretty low. What right have they got to do that?

Other people's time may not be money, but mine might be. I might be so busy with work lately that this is the only evening I'll have to play in the next 2 weeks. And here's this person who can't even wait another 20mins to eat, or pee, or whatever.

It really gives the image of a child standing with legs crossed and face scrunched, "I gotta goooooo!". Well go, just don't expect to be let back in.

Ppl going afk doesn't bother me most of the time as I understand that RL can interrupt things. However that being said... I play in the FoW a lot.... love that place...anyway... in the FoW you get ppl afking quite often & that annoys me. If you know you are going into the UW/FoW then plan your life(as much as you feasibly can) around that time. The FoW has got to be the worst place for ppl going afk. It seems like every 5 min someone is afk for 10 min or longer....okay so mebbe not every 5 min but it sure does feel like it. The FoW(I spose the UW too... I dont go there as much) seems to attract the afkers & it drives me up a f'ing wall! Like I said I can understand being afk occasionaly but every 10-15 min? And then be gone for 10 or so min? Give me a break!

If you are going into the FoW/UW then plan ahead as much as you can...use the restroom before starting quest, get your food & drink handy, let family members know that you arent to be disturbed & so on.

Oooohhh great example of a afker... day before yestrady I was helping a guildie with a Inf Run. We to the Seer & goto get the spectral essence. Unbeknownst to us one of our Warirors went afk, the partys members that werent afk all got killed, myself included. So there we sat waiting, waiting, waiting for the afker to come back. Now before I go on I should tell you that a scroll of Slayer's Insight dropped for me. I ask the party members to please not pick up my scroll, they all agree. So Im laying there dead... the entire party is dead save for the afk Warrior & Im hopeing he will come back & rez the team so I can get the scroll. After 15-20 min the afker comes back, notices everyone is gone & dead. Come to where we all got wiped, my team(not me) tells the afker not to pick up the scroll as it belongs to me...I too ask that he doesnt pick up the scroll... he does anyway. Im thinking okay he'll just give it to me later, so I kept my mouth shut thinking I didnt want to piss him off & keep it. So the afker rezzez a few ppl but we evetually all, including Mr AFK, get killed again. We go back to town & I ask Mr AFK if I can get my scroll... he say "idk it looks pretty sweet" the rest of the team says "Give the scroll back"... then Mr AFK starts saying things like "GO GO GO GO" & '"start the mission!" & I kept politely asking for the scroll.. I was leader of the group so werent going to start mission until I got my scroll. Mr. AFK then decides to threaten "I leave right now if you dont start mission!" I told him "Fine, fu keep it Enjoy the scroll." & kicked him from the party. Not once had I spoken to Mr AFK in a rude manner until then. He then pm'ed me calling me a noob & whatnot. We went on with the inf run, even did the mission & everyone had a good time & worked well together.

I have screenshots of the entire thing. So if anyone doubts or disbelieves or whatever I can back it up. Mr AFK game name? Sageking Slayer.