Anti-"Freeloader" Extremists?

I have read your posts. The main points you make are

-You don't like peple to go AFK without saying why or how long they are going to be.
-You expect people to be very organised when playing the game.
-That you don't mind if people go afk for a random event. (You however do not define a random event, you simply give a few examples. Your defintion is very lose.)

Time in the real world does not always compartmentalize. Some people are by their very nature disorganised and so is their time. This is the way they live however. Should they not be allowed to play these games. And "No" this is not the same for everyone. YEs you live a particular way but as people are varies so are their lifestyles. Generalisation is a dangerous habit! From your previous posts which I have read] you come across as a very organised person. Let me refresh you.

........etc etc. You're either super organised or being a hypocrit. Your choice.

So he's very organized, so what? It doesn't change the point. I'm NOT very organized, but I still know that it's selfish and rude to make SEVEN people wait for me (ONE person) to do some little errand, so I try to minimize how often that happens and apologize when it's unavoidable.

The degree of organization he's asking for is not unreasonable. I go to the bathroom beforehand if I am able (and if I'm not, then I'll probably be able to hold later if it does come up) and if I feel the need to play near a mealtime I DO IT WITH HENCHMEN. Don't like using henchmen? Then don't play when you know you can't commit enough time to do a full mission.

From the sound of it, the OP makes everyone wait around for him on a fairly regular basis, and is not very apologetic at all.

Thanas, Principa Discordia calls for simple organizational skills that everyone should possess. Knowing when you'll likely be hungry and in need of a toilet break should be concepts anyone past the toddler stage should be familiar with (and if you're 'different' in the sense of mental and/or physical deficiencies, that's a problem you've likely had to solve long before GW came out), but they can still be terrible at planning anything more complex.

There is no mention of 'very organized', that's just a value you attribute to the level of planning suggested (and I entirely disagree with this evaluation), so your conclusion becomes pretty much a straw-man argument.

When I'm forming a group, unless it's a mission with time constraints (like a timer), I shout out one phrase that I've found very useful:

"Pee breaks may be included!"

Not only does this tend to draw the kind of people I can get along with (folks with a sense of humor and some understanding that breaks are sometimes necessary), but if someone does holler "afk" or "brb" during the mission/quest, I add, "Pee break!" The group went in knowing there would be a break somewhere so it's no big deal.

I do have a kind of odd question for the original poster, though. Were you eating pork chops by any chance?

Dalia

Geez, Thanas! Did go through that "find all posts by Principa Discordia" option in his/her bio? LOL! Don't pick on Principa. Many of us are saying the same thing.

If you are a disorganized person and the chances are pretty high that "something's going to come up" that takes prescedence over the mission/game, then you should inform the people with whom you wish to game. It is only fair that they make the decision whether or not you are welcome in the group. If you're not, you can soothe your ruffled feathers by screaming "FU" at the whole group and then go find others of like minds...or a group that doesn't mind when someone goes for extended breaks.

The words in boldface are the keys to this whole concept. LOL! Well said, Silmor.

You don't have to be "organized" to know that there is a high liklihood of having to go to the bathroom if you've had a lot to drink and/or that dinner may be on its way when you smell the frying burgers wafting your way.

Thanas, please read the last couple of posts in this thread. They make my point even better than I do. Thx!

I know I'm going to end up restating parts of the previous 6 pages of posts... but it seems there's a common thread for the excuses for going afk.

If you've been playing this game long enough to be able to get into Fissure... then you know how long missions can take (and probably know that FoW can talk multiple hours). So why on God's Green Earth would you join up with a group if you're going to have something in RL come up that will take you away from the computer? Eating dinner is not a short thing, going to pick up kids is not a short thing, writing a term paper is not a short thing.... So have a small bit of common courtesy and apply some of your vaste in game knowledge. If your group won't have a reasonable chance of finishing a mission, quest, run, or skill cap before your real life will get in the way... Just Don't Join.

Get some henchies, they don't mind when you leave them standing there for 30 minutes while you eat your quiche.

I don't even see how anyone can defend his actions. It's mind boggling to me to think about going afk without good reason and if I had an emergency bathroom break I could say that in chat and then I'd hustle it up.

Eating is not something I'd take a break for. If you take a 15 minute eating break you should apologize for your lack of foresight and then quit the group. Leeching is never acceptable without permission.

My 7 year old would be more considerate than the original poster. Buy a single player RPG for goodness sake and quit acting like other people don't matter.

See I agree with this a lot. I think there's two issues at play here. One issue is going afk. That is annoying at times, but I usually don't mind as long as it's short. I think that the person who suggested giving an eta (ex, "brb in 1 min, grabbing a beer") is onto something and I think I'll prob start doing that if I need to go run somewhere (I also tend to wait for a moment when the party is waiting on energy and ressing people however to go make that mad dash). Anyhow, so long as it's not too long and the group is fine with it, I'm fine with waiting patiently for a minute or two, no biggie.

The second issue however is the leeching issue. That annoys me a lot. Guildies are one thing, but in a pug, if you're leaving half way through a mission, I think you should drop. I just don't think that you should continue to split the exp and drops if you're not at keys, it annoys the crud out of me (esp when the afk guy gets a glob of ecto or something).

-Diomedes

take video games too seriously??

jesus...this is a video game. If someone needs to take a break for 15 minutes to eat(god forbid he/she get hungry)...there is a plethora of other things I could use that 15 minutes for while waiting for him to finish eating(how dare he get hungry during the course of the day...or god forbid have to take a leak)....

If you cant have the decency to stay out of groups about to enter missions while your eating, then dont play MMO games. A certain level of socially acceptable behaviour is expected, but if it cant be displayed thats your problem, and will continue to be your problem.

If 7 people want to do a Guild Wars mission, but you actually are doing something else, why interrupt their game when you understood what they wanted? Thats bad manners plain and simple, stop trying to sound yourself out as the injured party, you have no manners and I find it amusing you would like to tell everyone this on a public forum.

Arrogant self obssessed mannerless kiddies for the lose.

This has nothing to do with video games, it's simply what is common courtesy when doing ANY activity with other people. If you're not going to be able to respect other people's time, then don't group with them. If you join a group for the purpose of playing GW, then you play GW, and if you can't do that consistently, then play a single player game.

How would you feel if you had 2 hours free to play GW after work, and you joined a group with 7 other people, each of which had to take 15 minutes off to do random things? Now 1:45 of your 2:00 has been spent NOT playing GW. Now if it's not right for everyone to go doing that, then why do you think YOU are special it's ok for YOU alone to do that?

How is any group supposed to stop for Break when you've got Ubar Da Warrior, and his sidekick Speedy Arrowflinger the Ranger running across the map agro'ing every mob in sight crying out in team chat...Faster...go go go, and how could I forgot the "heal me".

I have had the freeloaders join my groups before, for travel and for missions, each time I've proven to them just how worthless their toon's are by completing the mission/journey without them. I will not ever let them freeload more than one map off me though; they get the boot in town and added to my ignore list(hope they increase the size of this). I am always willing to wait a couple minutes for a nature call, if the nature call seems to be taking more than just a couple minutes, I leave them behind, and they can catch up when they return. Same if someone is grabbing a snack. I have never had anyone say....dinner time! mid-mission though, unless they were referring to the pizza guy arriving in which case it takes about the same time as a bathroom break. The problem is, in this game your damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

/rant on

The in game community, at least in the American Districts, is like some surrealistic nightmare of mental and social disorders, the majority of the population is so self absorbed that the only time a break is ok, is if that individual needs it him/her self. They are so disrespectful of anyone or anything they verbally abuse any and all that cross their path and due to the extreme intellect deficit present in these individuals they mistake such disrespect and abusive behavior for humor.

When I see the behavior of my fellow Americans especially in contrast to the behavior of those on the European servers, I am ashamed and embarrassed of the stains these individuals put on the integrity of our heritage. But then again why shouldn't they, the prima donna attitude of America now seems to infest all levels of our society. Since "In God we Trust" is so offensive to many Americans now maybe "To hell with you! It’s all about me" would be more appropriate, the truly sad thing is I think given a choice the second may actually win. Don't get me wrong I love my country, I'm just ashamed of how many of it's citizens represent not only themselves but their country.

/rant off

Make no mistake, this is a global game pitting country/region against country/region for "the favor of the gods" and as such each player is a representative and ambassador of not only their country but their culture and heritage. Leaving your group mid-mission for dinner isn't showing the other members of your team the respect you should be, and if your pvp'ing it not only shows a lack of respect for your team, but it displays your complete lack of integrity to your opponent.

Of course that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong!

Look I'm saying I don't get annoyed with people going AFK. However I do realise that sometimes real life takes more prescendence and that you really do take this game a little too seriously. And to whoever followed up my last post with comments about organisation, you misunderstood. Granted I was being a little finicky. However I was just trying to illustrate the fact that Discordia was being inconsistent, nothing more. The reason for this action being how can you begin agreeing with someone who contridicts themselves. Their aruments lose solidarity and substance.

Thanks.

if I didn't feel like waiting I'd just go complete the mission without him...OMG HE GOT A FREE 1000 XP!@#!@#seven!@#!!@ LET'S ALL CRY E-TEARS AND E-HATE HIM...

it's a game guys...if someone drops or someone goes afk...just keep playing....does it help any to get all butthurt and cry about it?? Chances are you can complete the mission without them anyway.

Do you not know what it means to be courteous and considerate? Yeah, it is just a game - so what I want to do is play - not wait around 15 minutes for someone who is so self-involved that they would inconvenience the rest of their team instead of eating before entering a mission. If it's something like FoW where you've already been there for an 1+ a 10-15 minute break is totally accceptable and understandable, but a 15 minute break during a mission that takes 30-40 minutes to complete? Uh, no.

EDIT: Chances are you could complete the mission without the person, but I'd rather they drop than just go afk and earn completion for the mission. It's called teamwork, eh? Contribute or leave. If not, don't get upset if your team ditches you after you've been afk a while.

no one has to play with the AFK people
- if the group doesnt want to, thats their choice

the OP was complaining about how his groups either kicked or disbanded over his AFKs

its their time too

if people dont want to play with your AFK, dont complain

I completely understand what it means to be courteous and considerate...I am also fully aware of the fact that in the grand scheme of all things associated with life...Guild Wars is on the bottom rung right below "making srue the dog shits in corner of the yard"...It's not important...and I'm not about to get upset about someone dropping or going AFK. There are a million better things I could waste my time getting upset over...and they'd be a million times more appropriate to get upset about. Guild Wars is a game...LIFE IS NOT A GAME...often times life happens...and trust me Life is far more important than some silly game and some silly mission....so the guy had to eat...is it really the end of the world that he had to go AFK in the middle of a mission...does the world cease to exist...have the gates of hell opened and lucifer himself uprisen in your living room demanding your presence before the dark army...all because this one guy left in the middle of a mission that you could complete with a party of 3 people anyway?

Ninna: the Original Post I read was more along the lines of pointing out the asinine things people do just to "get back" at the AFKer...not so much a complaint as it was pointing out how hideously spiteful people can be.

Maybe that's because you took my arguments out of context, so I guess I'll have to spell it out for you. When I said "I'm one of the most disorganised people you'll ever meet", I was implying that even though I'm one of the most disorganised people you'll ever meet, I can still organise my game-time so that things like meals and picking people up do not conflict with it.

That implication means that doing such things is not the slightest bit difficult and shouldn't be cried about. Hell, it should come naturally to people.

The GW community, and any other MMO group, is a microcosm of the world and the people in it. I don't think it's any secret to those of us over, say, 25 that the social niceties are gone and that basic common decency is on it's way out. Sorry to say, but it seems a large portion of the community are the very people who lack even the basest of manners.

I don't take my game to seriously, Algren. But I DO take my time seriously. I get a VERY limited amount of time to play during a week. When I -do- play, I hope that those with whom I game will observe basic manners (how AWFUL of me!). If they need to leave, say so before the mission begins or give an ETA for return. Yes, I can finish the missions with a reduced party but why should I have to? I like the game the way it's designed. I like to play with other players and not have to resort to henchies (though I have had to a lot).

Do I care if the freeloader gets the XP? Not really but, then again, that's not really my issue (or the issue of anyone else who's got a problem with this).

Maybe I missed something here, but I haven't seen anyone acting very "upset" in this thread. We're just discussing the topic at hand. You know, giving our points of view and what not. You're the one who has expressed more emotion than anyone else. Please calm down. It is just a game after all?

EDIT: For Algren, I see emotion in your posts because of the all caps ("LIFE IS NOT A GAME"), which in many people's minds signifies yelling or the closest you can get to it. Plus, you are dramatizing the whole thread ("is it really the end of the world that he had to go AFK in the middle of a mission...does the world cease to exist...have the gates of hell opened and lucifer himself uprisen in your living room demanding your presence before the dark army"). In the eye of the beholder and all that. Furthermore, how can you say anyone in this thread is upset if emotions cannot be expressed via text? That's rhetorical, by the way.

Totally agree. My time is limited during the weekdays.

Sagius, have to agree with you.

My experience with these kind of extremists is a little different, but definitely it is annoying. I've had to leave UW once in the past about 2 hours into it, I apologised and said I had to go for urgent RL reasons and got "OMFG I HATE QUITTRS!" and "ur on my blac list now!" Etc.

Seriously, there are people out there that value the game more than their lives outside of it and take it far too seriously, some of the replies here are proof of that. Your best bet is just to leave if they start whining, groups aren't hard to come by and most missions can be done with Henchmen so it's no big loss.

As for "planning" your toilet/food/other breaks, get real. Sometimes things come up in real life that you simply can't ignore. I'm always going to value life over game, as it's plain to me which is more important. Hell, check the whole sales pitch for the damn game, "Skill, not hours played" They designed it so it doesn't intefere with your life too much, it's about fun - not organised toilet breaks.

how exactly does one express emotion via text on a forum?

I've simply stated that there are more important things in life than worrying about freeloaders in a video game...

I just read the whole thread, and want to add my 2 cents:

Personally, I don't mind waiting for 2 minutes of someone going afk (in PvE). I am just that nice

General consensus points to that when you party up with some other players, there's a mutual expectation is to help each other out throughout the course of missions, quests, or simply soc runs. When anyone goes AFK, he's leaving the mutual expectation. I find it absurd the fact that the OP went AFK on his group, and came onto the forum to whine about being ditched, and the lack of patience of others.

Everytime when something happens in RL that I have to go away from keyboard, I am prepared to be ditched from the group even when they respond that they'd wait. For every minute I go away, I know I am wasting 7 minutes of others time. A 5 minute dinner? That makes a world of difference.

You make it sound like it requires any effort at all to take a wizz or grabbing a bite to eat before going into a mission.

It doesn't, but that won't mean you can guarantee your presence for the entire mission. Yes, it's wrong to leave people hanging around waiting for any huge length of time and if you do know in advance you'll have to go it's best not to join up, but if they can't be bothered waiting a couple of minutes out of common courtesy i'd leave instead. Chances are a group that impatient will fail anyway.

*chuckles and high-5's Principa*

Of course not, other things can come up (such as people at the door and whatnot), but it's covering the biological bases so to speak.

My entire argument is that nobody should really need to go AFK for a pee or a snack, as it can easily be done before-hand. Things like someone coming to the door, however, are completely valid reasons in my book.

I don't think ANYONE here is begrudging anyone a bathroom break or a beer grab. I'd warrant the the REAL complaint is against those who take LOOONG breaks that could have been discussed before the mission started. As said, if the group's willing to wait, terrific! If not thank them for the invite and leave the party before the mission starts.

I haven't taken anything out of context. You continually make remarks about organisational skills and how as a child you were shown how to behave a certain way.

Once again you've contridicted yourself. You are disorganised but organised. Make up your mind! Anyhow this is a trivial point and I admit to this. Back to the main argument at hand I think.

Did you even read my post? You've made the same mistake you made last time. I'll copy and paste it just for you...

To spell it out for you, yet again; Those things don't require any level of organisational skills whatsoever. They should come naturally.

Now please, shut up. Your little vendetta is becoming boring very quickly.

and what happens if my daughter wakes up in the middle of the night and needs to be put back to sleep...often times this requires reading her a book...singing her a song...or rubbing her back/head until she goes back down....certainly you can't expect that I will do anything other than jump from my seat to attend to her needs...I'm not even going to so much as tell you where I am going, because SHE is more important to ME than YOU are..(take note that 'you' is being used in a general sense)....

things come up...yes going to the bathroom should be taken care before you play...yes eating should be taken care of before you play...yes painting the house and neutering the family dog should be taken care of before you play....but things come up, and whether or not they are dire in need is all relative to the person from whom the perspective is coming.....caring about it is a waste of time. Either take 15 minutes with them...go outside and take a look at the sun you haven't seen in 4 days or continue on the mission without them.

Actually, if you read above that's exactly what your friend Principa is begrudging us here:

*chuckles*

Lelani, I don't know why you're trying your damndest to start a personal war, but I warn you not to try.

Actually read my posts and you'll know what I've been talking about all along. Until then, please shut the hell up and buy a clue.

You and I have had this "my child, your child" discussion in another thread. MY child is more important than ANYTHING in this world. I knew, after rereading my last post, that someone would say something like you did.

I am not making ANY comments about a child's need for their parent, emergencies, unplanned events that come up and such. I am talking about the avoidable things, for Pete's sake.

I'm not trying to start a personal war with you Principa, quite the opposite. The post wasn't even directed at you, but to Aniewiel, hence the reason I quoted him first.

I'm not even going to discuss your attack on Discordia, because it has nothing to do with whether or not his arguments have merit. You are attacking the person and not the points which is always the wrong way to approach a debate. Furthermore, he's not even the only person arguing his point, so discrediting him means nothing.

As for whether or not anyone is taking the game to seriously, I've said it before and I'll say it again: this has nothing to do with the relative importance of Guild Wars. This is about doing things with other people, especially strangers. When you do things as a group, you try to minimize the negative effect on the group generated by the needs of an individual. If once in awhile you didn't anticipate needing to go to the bathroom, or you get a phone call, or whatever, that's fine. But if you consistently make seven other people stop and wait so you can make frigging meals and have to take bathroom breaks often because you don't even have the potty training necessary to know when to pee so you can ensure an hour's freedom....you have no business interacting with human beings.

WHAT? This additude is your whole problem.

-You knew you would have to pick up you kid from T-Ball practice
-You joind a group of players that did not have to do the same
-You did not warn them prior and dropped this problem on them
-You left your group with one less of the players that the team built
-You think that anyone playing this game that does not have kids has more time to play than you

My time is valuable, too. When one of YOUR types of people get into the group and leaves half an hour through. You have wasted 7 peoples time. Lets do the math 1<7 (in case you do not speak the language of the educated that says "one is less than seven").

So, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you. You not only wasted my time (not that I have groupd with you {or will}), but you wasted 6 other peoples time.

Perhaps, Principa, this thread has reached the end of its usefulness...if there ever was any? Maybe it's time to lock it and throw away the key! Show us that you are the monster you are rumored to be! MWAHAHAHA!