People Really Need To Give Monks A Break

Is a Pyhrric victory better than beating the mission the first time? Sure the ranger was being a jerk, but you were also being a jerk, and probably increasing his, and maybe even the warriors, ill will to monks, making them less likely to be nicer to monks in the future.

You're absolutely right, people need to begin to emphasize the use and worth of a Party Leader. I hate when a party just invites who they can get, and take off, no planning, and no strategies. We turned a dire situation into a glorious victory simply by making a plan.... Have the ranger go on ahead, turn on his evasion skills, and fire an arrow into the group, walk backwards, I target him, protection up, breeze up, and hit them with range before they get in, and cast a LOT of hexes on them before they get to us. Made the fight so easy, whereas just running up to them we were slaughtered.

I'm actually very smart, and I do understand that some parties - well put together can do without me. But if I'm so useless, I want them to back it up. Actions speak louder than words... Often I've done this, and they've apologized, and I went to res them and heal them all up, and completed the mission.

I don't even talk this way until I start getting insulted.

You seriously havent played the game enough.
Can survive without a monk. Ive done it.. and Im sure Im not the only one.

Solution. Dont post on an open forum.

Monks can have bad days too, but it was kind of stupid to neglect the entire party. I really should have just let the ranger die and keep the warriors alive. It was a spur the moment thing.

Well, you -are- right of course....

Survival without a monk is possible. The henchmen don't give lip and, as someone else in another thread said, "they die with dignity." But it's much more fun to play with other humans. Keep looking for the "good guy" monks out there. We are looking for you guys too!

"Standing around AFK as a monk when their is a shortage of them, in a busy town or mission outpost annoys the hell out of group leaders far more than it does monks, I find this common occurance to be highly rude and provocative, there are few monks so lets stand around AFK and tease people looking for one."

WTF? Did anyone else miss the memo that said if you are a monk you MUST be at the keyboard at all times? Sorry i must have never found the zone that was meant for monks who wish to go afk. Damn even Prima hasnt found it... and they have found everything...yeah...

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The person that said this has an Iq of 50. This applies to every player in your team.

well everyone has bad days, but less people should react to heal spam and either ignore it or explain what happend with out using words like "Stupid" or "noob" or any other commonly used word, make it to the point but not too agressive such as "sorry but i can be two places at once, i may be close to god, but im no that powerful".. ok so the last little part wasnt needed, but its always nice to keep the mood light rather than start a fight

you cant go back in time, but in the future you can take some of this into though

There is a reason why my "healer" PC is a Me/Mo. ¦Þ

About invites, if my group is pestering me, I'll send an invite once and only once to a monk. Sometimes if I have the chance, I'll whiper them first.

Henchies aren't always a good option. In some missions you need a real person as a monk. Also the monk henchies are targeted early, sometimes agro every enemy, and don't know when to run away or run away too much when you are trying to drop an AoE DoT spell on the guys attacking them. You can't order them about or put them into a plan. :|

I made a post about it in the sanitarium but as the game progresses, the number of available monks seem to decline and the need for them goes up. By abbadon's mouth (and some earlier mssions), most groups won't leave without 2 PC healers. In thunderhead keep, you need at least one PC healer.

I agree some people are too hard on healers, but a healer is also the "must have" class in the game.

Correct. Monks have limits.


As a W/E, I agree with the ranger. Sniping was the smart thing to do. If sniping was the plan, you and the warriors shouldn't have run off.

Kill the ego trip or stop playing a healer.

People need you, but you aren't responsible for them? BS! Warriors have to fight and after a point they can't get better armor. Maybe you'd like it better if they let you get killed and "convienantly" forgot about their rez signet. Or better yet let everyone get killed and start the mission over without you.


My opinion is everyone has a job to do and limits. If they do their job (and aren't jerks about it) or if they are at their limit, don't complain. This goes for all classes.

regardless....you don't NEED a monk...it's nice to have one, but not needed. The Elitest attitude that monks have is probably why people are growing dislike most monks....like you most monks thing we NEED them...and we don't

What a topic! My turn. From the very first day Guild Wars was released I stuck to one hero and one hero only – my warrior. After beating the game I had nothing left to do then attempt to win the HoH. Attempt after attempt my party would fail. The main reason behind this I think was due to a shortage in healing monks willing to join a non-guild based party. Regardless I would wait, some times hours, looking for the perfect healing monk with Teamspeak. Not some PvP hero with 10 days of experiences either!

In the beginning of this month I finally created my second hero, a RPG primary monk. I figure this way over the course of the PvE part my skill usage for a primary monk could be fine tuned and well learned. So far I’ve learned a great deal of what it takes to be a primary healing, and I value the experience as I now know exactly what is involved. This education prevents ignorance on my behalf when I drop dead and blame the monk. ;-)

In agreement with the first poster, Acheus Lokine, Monks are abused in this game. I for one wanted to do something about that and devoted the time to build and train my Monk and I can recommend the same for the folks above that think a henchmen is just as good, Your missing a whole lot.

The monk profession is the single most important role for PvP and often PvE. As a great quote said:

The answer? 3 - but again off topic.

So, in summary, once my hero reaches the HoH you can count on me to provide you healing.

P.S. Never call a monk “Hey Monk!”, we have names.

P.S.S. Monks, do not leave the party if one person badmouths you. Rather refrain from healing that person and stand by your guns to do the best for the rest.

I've played a healing monk completely thru the whole game, and have heard just about as many complements as negative comments. If you're really good at it, some people will recognize that.

Monks aren't all 'snobs'. Some of us are normal, down-to-earth-people, that are just like you, except a lot smarter and a lot better looking. =)

What leads most people to complain about monks is that it's obvious to the whole team when a monk sucks. When everyone's life bar keeps dipping dangerously low in a simple battle, you know your healing/protection monk isn't paying attention or just sucks. When I tried an odd R/N build I was relatively useless in the group but noone complained or said that I sucked. They simply didn't notice. But when I play my healer/protector and ping "My Energy is 7 of 45" and someone aggros a group immediately and dies, they yell,"c'mon monk! don't you heal?"

What I haven't seen mentioned enough is that EVERYONE on the team is important. It's just that's it's too easy to see if the healer isn't very good.

Thank you, Del, you quiet traveller, you. I feel exactly the same about my monk!

I make sure to compliment everyone in the party that does a good job....if we're in a long battle and the monk keeps us alive...I hit enter and type "nj healer" doesn't take but a second or two...and it lets the monk know you appreciate what he is doing. Often times monks feel useless as they don't do any damage...gotta let em know they are serving there purpose.

doesn't take long at all to let people on your team know when they've done a good job....

I had heard that monks gets abused by players a lot. But I have to say since I created a monk and have beaten the game with the monk, I have yet to be abused.

People have always been polite in asking me to join their group. If I do not want to or do not like how their group is set up I will decline and they will move on.

I have never been blamed for a failure in any mission. If anything people have praised me several times for saving many near party wipes.

Most groups my monk has been in have been patient and waited if I needed to recharge energy.

Maybe I am lucky but I have only had good experiences with my monk. I am also very choosy about which group I will join and I am pretty good at joining good ones.

Absolutely 100% true. It takes a TEAM to beat these missions. If my monk lives through a particularly difficult battle/quest/mission, I am HUGELY grateful to those who protected me!

The first thing I tell any group I enter is, "Full healer, some protection, utterly defenseless." They immediately get the idea and rally round the silver flagpole with the Tinkerbell wand.

I am not "holier than thou" but I do think it is important that every member of a party is made to feel worthwhile. I make sure that I pass on my gratitude at every opportunity.

So, Dahl. This is unrelated to the fascinating drama surrounding this thread, I know, but I was wondering: What's your protection build? Or if that's priviledged information, perhaps just some pointers? My friend plays a M/R (Ranger part is pretty much ignored) and he's been tinkering around with a protection build post-crystal dessert. It seems to be much more effective now that the monsters are hitting harder.

Or maybe your one of the good ones

I agree people should be more thankful, i say thank you more times than i should, its just common courtesy... i always thank after people let me in their group, after a monk heals me and i really needed it, after he/she rezes me (as much as i like the taste of soil life is so much better), and after a mission and i never yell at the monk, i may ask them to be careful if it looks like their about to get in danger but thats about it.. im sure we would have a lot more player friendly monks if we only thanked them a little more for healing and rezing

Player who choose to be a monk to help the players in the game and be appreciated. Thats why there are less monks in this game. Most are taken for granted.

I've been a monk/cleric in most all games i've played, Knight online, Baldurs Gate, Ragnarok, you name it. And Being a healer or protector is not an easy job. I like my support role in the group a lot, i like a lot knowing that the group trustes my skills and my build to keep them alive as long as it is possible.
And this sort of discussion, poped up from time to time in other games to.

I cannot agree witht the ones that say that a pre-programed npc monk can be better than a monk charcter with a real person behind the keyboard that knows his job from tip to toe.

I do agree that in GW lots of missions can be done with henchies.

I do agree that there are childish ppl inside this game, but that is a constant factor in online games, having a virtual alternate identity gives anyone the chance to do or say things maybe they'll think twice in real life.

I u find a good monk is gonna be always good to ur party. But no more as having a good tank, or a good nuker, or a good trapper and all the varietys of builds in this game.

There are no bad builds or classes, u just need to take 2 mins and adapt ur strategy to what u have in ur group.

I have two ascended chars one Ne/mo and one Mo/R. Both used as support healers or protectors depending the need. And i've had some awesome random groups, and some other not so great (to put it on light words.)

But there are certain rules of conduct that no game or class can give u, but a decent education and politeness.

Being polite is always easier than being rude.
Asking is not the same as demanding things.
Calling ppl names, insulting them and abusing them consumes more time than just forgeting about it.

This principles, apply to all ppl in general, not only to "certain" not "elite" players. Are general guidelines to enojoy the gaming experience. A game is to have fun, if u cannot have fun, then the game is not providing what it should.

I agre there are lots of monks with attitude, i've partied in groups where the other monk will start with attitudes as u all described there. When that happens u can easily adjust ur party tactics to work better with a monk that is telling u he will not heal u.
But if u can, listen to eachothers, maybe the monk is just trying to suggest how his build can work better for all. As all classes should do for hard missions or pvp areas.

I think being a monk or being a warrior or whatever, doesnt give u the title of ruler of the world. Its just basic personal behavior.
So if one person is being nasty and abusing with u, u can add them to an ignore list and u wont hear from them again.

But a good monk, never quits a party in mid-mission or mid-fight just cos some player is insulting u. A good support class, knows he is there for all the group, so finish the mission, and prove that person wrong just by doing ur job the best u can.

As other monks in this post said, there are good and decent ppl out there playing monks, once u find one, add it to ur friends and call him if u need some assistance in a mission. I do the same when i find good rangers, warriors, eles, necros or mesmers, and i can call any class im lacking at my group to help me when i need.


Sorry for the long post, i've been the healing class for some years now, and i thought about sharing my experience.

Tks.

Brother Torkemada Mo/R lvl 20

I was kicked off in a 6/8 party cuz i was a smiting monk. I can outdamage most proffesion with my energizing wind + baltazar aura combo

Any member of the group can ruin it. I have never seen a rude monk before, and only two that couldn't heal. Usualy the rude people are the Warriors, Necroes and Elementalists. Most monks I have seen are rather humble people,none of which ever really "Take over the group".

How can one "Take over the group" when they can't even look up at the screen becuase the health bars?

Anyone can ruin a group. For example, I was leading a group in FoW the other day and we had just gotten to the forest, on our way to see the Wailing Lord. I said "Ok, watch out here wurms will come out from the ground, be careful not to aggro anything behind them". Two members responded "Shut up, jerk, we get it" "Yeah, shutup jerk." so, I opted to dance instead of fighting and giving orders.

Well, after they had killed the first three groups they decided that instead of taking the side path they would run right through the middle to the bridge instead of walking around. After all the warriors, mesmer and elementalists were pelted with stones the monks ressurected them. They attempted again to run through the middle. Eventually everyone died while I danced.

So, either I, one warrior ruined that group or the people trying to run down the middle did. nevertheless, the monks were the only ones doing anything even slightly intelligent.

I think its just rude to label monks as snobbish. That's like calling tanks l33t idiots... and no, some tanks can think

Honestly though, the reason I think that most people feel this way is they don't usually play a healer, my secondary character's a Monk, and I played a healer in EQ for quite a while.

They don't understand that while the monk can turn the battle by healing others, he/she isn't some kind of demi-god that can keep everyone alive as they make stupid descisions, or, as all the mages decide they can be tanks.

As stated before by someone, one of the main points is that while any other class has time to be bad, and learn better, any monk that's even semi-bad gets noticed, or even a good monk can be yelled at as being bad if the team's bad. People always notice when they're NOT being healed by a monk, but very few people take the time to thank someone for healing them (I usually thank the monks at least once a mission if I notice how well I'm being kept alive.)

Just a little piece of my opinion.

Ah yes I've read quite a few of these rants. My first character was a Wa/Mo and he'd finished the game. After reading all these rant threads I couldn't understand why people were such whinies and came to forums to cry about it. So before making my final judgement and branding such people cry-babies I deleted my little Odd Sock wa/mo, wasted all the skill points, extracted every rune and recreated as a Mo/Wa.

In just under 20 hours I'm already at the desert. Sure I've had pugs run ahead when after a fight I'd ping my 1/42 energy. I've had the honor of being the only monk in the Wilds at lvl 10. I've even had someone call me a noob since apparently El/mo's with Divine Boon are better (ah that made me laugh). It's allright, I know I'm good and they are dumbasses. Up till now I've only had 3 people die under my watch and one had pre-sear armor in the Sanctum Cay mission (Smokies just owned him).

I just don't understand why all of you come to the forums to whine about this non-sense. If there's a jackass I tell him not to run ahead or else I won't heal him in particular. And if he still does it I leave him to die. Sure I've had my bad experience but you guys really make it sound worse than it is. At first I was scared to recreate as a mo/w but in the end, I really like it. You get into a mission area and there's 3 invites right there waiting for you. I'm having a blast as a booner and oftentimes people thank me for having accepted to join their party.

I forgot where I was going with this but in resume I think you're exagerating how monks are treated. Personally this is the most fun in PvE I've ever had and if there's someone I dislike, I just kill him and tell him I'll do it too ! Isn't it just great ? Remember that this is an online game and given the fact that people know their attitudes won't have consequences, they'll just be arseholes and get in your face with it. If you know you're good then all those insults shouldn't get to you.

Off Topic: Ok, so why is it that it seems that almost all the Idiot Savant members love to go into threads to either be rude and insult people on how they are whining or complaining or how stupid they are for using such and such build?

Is this not a forum where people can discuss some common issues in the game? But it just seems like these IQ people love coming in and showing how "cool" they are because they never whine or complain about stuff....except about the whiners and complainers. Not one person in this thread (except you) has called this thread a whine or complaint.

And no I have never made such a thread.

I play a few different chars, and I gotta say that during any PvE battle I'm doing with a monk, I'm expect 1 good heal, and that's about it, and only when it's because I'm helping the team, not commiting some tactical nightmare. Guys who are supposed to be meat sheilds should expect more from a healer, but not much. I'm always a little shaky on groups that insist on have 3 monk for anything, or only have 1 real monk and are wary of the hench healer.

As a healer, There was only one time where people were heaping the abuse on me. I was in a PVP battle, and one of the guys went down. He gave the "rez me" spam, and I ignored it for a bit, trying to keep the other two alive. It escalated to the standard 'n00b sUx' BS, and I finally got a chance to write "can't rez during battle". He wrote "Yes you can". Fine. "Ashton Hart is using Ressurect on xxxxx". 4 seconds into the 8 second rez someone dies. 1 seconds after, I'm dead. Leaving Mr. "rez me" to try and bring me back while he has 22% health. Clearly he didn't think through what would happen, and aparently thought I wasn't doing so much. Rather than stating "I appoligize. Your course of action would have been more beneficial for the team win" he speculated that I fornicated with my mother, and that I was new to the game.

Simply put, if you avoid damage, you need less healing. Too many people rely on healing to make up for their sins, and it makes them worse players. Unless you're in a place where there's no other choice but to take the damage, and make it up on the backend (FoW, UW with no Protection monk), then you can just use smart tanks to herd the mobs into a little nuggat center for the caster to take a juicy bite off. It's not as much fun for the warriors as the usual beat down they like to administer, but it is quite effective. There are many variations on this theme involving wards, traps, and enchantments, but you get the picture.

For PVP, every Healer you eschew is a metric butt-load more damage you're bringing to the table. The fewer healers, the better, as far as damage potential. 2 Healers is a good balance for most teams. 1 Healer, one Prot wrks well. 3 Ele healers that carry some spike damage provide a bit 'O damage, and a descent healing ability. 3 Healing monks? Well, you'll stay alive for a while, but (at a competative level) it might be tough to get that first kill.

Modesty is the rarest of virtues, but...

I had the chance to play with some iQ in game: basing on my experience they are nice and talkative people. Only one of them was 100% moron, so I guess they have a very low "asses percentage" in the Guild (or maybe I was lucky). Try to get along with some Sissy Boys and you'll find how kind they are...kind like a kick in the face.

OT Ended.

I agree that monks are in some cases mistreated. I helped a hopeless group doing the Thunderhead Keep quest and I was the only Monk. It was not an easy task since 2 of the guys weren't even infused, but after TREMENDOUS efforts I managed to keep the king alive and save the day. A mix of luck, fast binds and PvE experience. After the mission, the only "thanks" I received was from a guy who said "nice healing btw" immediately before leaving the group.
This doesn't mean I was pissed off or anything....this is a game, I play to have fun, not to be gratified. Of course I don't like people swearing/cursing or moronically insulting me because I didn't heal them while they were tanking Satan and His Hordes, but I never felt offended.

Yes, people just take it too seriously.

Monks are just as Snobbish as other players, but our experience(yes i'm a primary monk too) teaches us to be selective i've been in partys where indeed W/Mo(Mostly other sec proffessions will do) do not wait for the Monk to recharge and aggro every frikkin group around. That's why Monks become selective in which group to join an go on with. So Basicly monks being Snobbish is your own fault.

On the other hand i went in the UW for the first time and me and my fellow monk were complimented in this way: The monks are teh pro (with a bing wink) and i have also been complimented in a way like: THese monks are the best i've ever seen, when people say this to you a monk is more likely to reply nice and be nice.

My point is the way you treat the monks makes them snobbish or not. And most of the time we get treated badly so guess it's your own fault, go play a monk if you think you can do better

Frits, I don't think the average player treats the average monk too badly IMO. It's just a few rotten apples... But I'm sure I'll start seeing them more as I play my healer more. :|

Monks aren't treated any differently than any other class is....

well i tend to agree with you but there are quite a few who treat them very bad and i mean very bad,

speaking of which you have not see idiot savants much lately.

(not that i really miss them anyway ):P

bet they are
do any other classes get: Omg oyu frikking n00b rez me andL: rez me rez me rez me rez me rez me rez me rez me rez me rez me rez me and: heal heal heal heal heal heal heal. Omg you are sooooo n00b you sux.

well ok maybe Warriors but they deserve it j/k

rangers and necros can't find groups because "rangers and necros sux0rz to the max0rz"

Guess which Classes Korea uses with great succes....

although most people dont see this Necros and Rangers are just as usefull as Eles and stuff, but i agree they get treated badly too, Necros in specific because Rangers seem to be the flavor of the Month and they deserve it Necros too don't get me wrong

Jesus, what is your problem ? Everywhere I post you come along and say I'm a jackass. Get off my back. Not because I post things that you don't like that I'm wrong or that you have to make very specific posts about me and my ways of thinking. Here's an idea: read what I post before replying to it. You would have read something in the lines of ''yea he calls people whiners because he tried himself and had no problems''. What's so hard to understand ? Either get off my back or stop flamming me because you don't like me.

No ? then why does the initial post end with a /rant ? Rants are whine posts and yea if it is a forum then I too can say what I want and I chose to share how my experience wasn't at all negative and how monks who whine have nothing to whine about.

Oh sweet, here's some paranoia. See in every post he tries to take me down he always feels targeted so he ends it with some sort of meaningless disclaimer like this one.

Seriously I'm tired of all this flamming. Sure I could be more tactful but what it comes down to is why do you take offense so easily ? Next time you feel compelled to send a hateful post, send a PM instead.

I play predominantley in PUGs, and I agreed with this completely up until last night... we were doing the second 15 point attrib quest... which I have done before with henchies, but thought I'd do it with people for, you know, the social element. Wow. A stupid necro has so many minions he can't control them, pulls a group we were running past and then brings it to the mobs we are fighting. He dies. Real fast. So do his minions. Then he starts yelling at the two monks in the party. Now at this point, the party fell to pieces--you've all been there. The targeters stop calling targets and everyone stops being in a team to keep themselves alive. Except us two monks. We were healing our asses off. It was down to the point where I was cycling between orison and sig. of devotion to give me time to regen 5 energy for another orison!! The other monk died... everyone died... we were down to one warrior and me. The warrior walled up as best he could (did good) and I was out of aggro healing him, and finally getting energy back.

And still I was getting crap from the dead necro... I'd had enough. I just left. Yep, I probably shouldn't have. But man, I play this for fun, not to listen to some idiot go off on me. Bitch me out, I'm leaving. Pure and simple. Not because I'm a monk and can easily find another group, but because I'm a person who is playing this game for fun, and when the fun stops, I'm moving on.

I always love reading the posts about how monks are treated and how they are snobs.

The moron that posted about how he is needed as a monk is probably one of those that, if playing a warrior, would be swearing at the monk.

The people that say that the missions can be completed using henchie monks, they are 100% correct. What they fail to mention is that monks can also take henchies and complete the missions just as well. But then what fun would a game based around community be if everyone played with henchies?

I play a primary monk and have had just as many good groups as bad ones. It's funny how with a good group, you are the best healer around and with a crappy group, you're a noob. I do my best always and only apologize if someone happens to die because my eyes started to bleed from staring at health bars for so long. Other then that, I did my best.

I have never left a group in the dust because of one loud mouth either. If someone starts screaming at me, I politely ask the group if they would prefer that I leave. I have never had a group say that they wanted me to leave.

As far as being AFk in towns. Are you kidding me? Are you actually trying to tell me that I cannot be in a town unless I plan on doing the mission? I will ignore all uninvited invites if I am not planning on doing the mission. If the party gets pissed, guess what? There are those henchie monks. If I will be going on the mission but am in the middle of doing something, and someone invites me, I'll whisper them that I can go on the mission in X number of minutes. They can either wait or find someone else. But then, you get the players that can't wait and keep pestering you with when you're going to be done and why they have to wait X number of minutes. Because that's when I will be ready to go. You may think that makes me a snob, but who are you to tell me when to do a mission? If you can't wait, then find someone else.

These generalizations about monks and warriors and every other class needs to end. It is not the class. It's the idiot playing as that class. A bad monk will be a bad warrior and bad in any other class they choose.