People Really Need To Give Monks A Break

It is a 2 way street. Warriors need to hold melee enemies at bay, and monk needs to heal he and protect him. Either one does not do job, all party goes to hell.

I feel that of all the classes. Warriors, then monk, then ranger, need the most "group play" strategy. One to tank, one to heal, one to lure and target. If groups don't do these 3 things, all goes to hell fast.

In the end of the day, it is who you quest/mission with. I have seen groups die because of crap monks but equally by crap warriors and most often by loser rushers. And until u play u don't know who is crappy. So sad...

oook so i made it to page 5 then got fed up with reading.

All people get bitched at. Its just monks get it more. Why?

"I'm a Warrior. I dont need to bring Healing/Res Sig. Thats the monks job!"
"I'm a Ranger. I just stick arrows in things. Heal me!"
"I'm an Ele. Ph33r my damage! Laugh at my armour!"
"I'm a Mes. Just try and cast! If you do, I'll die..."
"I'm a Necro. I can sacrifice my health! Who needs health!"

I've seen it said many times on this forum. "It's the monks job to heal. Why should I bring *self healing here*". Hmm...well... if your monk dies? Duh. It's like telling an Ele to bring only defense/slow down spells because "I'm a smiting monk, I don't need your damage". It's stupid.

My main char is a R/Me using mainly the Ranger skills. As such, she can do a bit of everything. I think thats one reason why I see how vital it is that people bring a bit of defense for themselves. Sure, warriors have best defense. But not the ONLY defense. Monks have best heal, but not the only heal. Mesmers have best interupts. But others have interupts. You get the picture.

I have a primary of each prof. My R is the only one to finish the game. My monk is at Aurora. The rest are around Ascalon (I spend a lot of time with my R still ) I've spent too much time in PUGS and refuse to PUG anymore. Monks will never heal enough for the average PUG. Rangers/Necros/Mesmers will never be good enough for the average PUG. Eles will never do enough damage, Warriors will never take enough damage.

One thing I would never do though is refuse to heal anyone (well ok I refuse to heal one person but thats coz he's my mate and doesn't get mad. In fact its almost a challenge; he'll go on about 'I dont need your healing " so I dont give him it!) Thats childish and stupid. If a Warrior decided to stop tanking because someone was yelling at him for being an 'aggroing n00b' everyone would yell at him for being stupid. If a monk decides not to heal anyone, people don't say anything because 'we need the monk'. Sure you need him. But you need all the other classes too.

Once people in this game stop being such superior feeling morons and being insistant that they're the only important one in the group, then we'll get some amazing teamwork going and any group will work to beat the game. Whilst people are still of the mindset that 'without me we'll all be killed'... well I'm afraid you're doomed.

edit: on the AFK in towns thing... don't blind invite then. Whichever char I'm on with, I hate blind invites. My online friends laugh at me because I'm so fast to reject blind invites. It could be the Anet God himself with 10000 energy and 100000 dmg spells and I'd reject him for the sheer audacity in 0.2 seconds! If i wanna join a group, I'll whisper that group or say in local "LFG..." If I want people to join my group then I'll advertise that "Group doing... looking for x members". If someone hasn't said to you "I wanna join" or advertised they're looking, you can't possibly bitch at them for being AFK. If they've said "I wanna join" and then gone AFK, bitch away. Be my guest

Odd how Rangers are usually not wanted and yet I STILL get blind invites... hehe. And sometimes more than once from the same person!
*random person invites*
reject
*random person invites*
reject
You'd think they'd get the message...

Ohh.. I know the feeling. Yes, I can get into UW with a monk, but.. I don't feel like it a lot of times. Gone off monking for the moment.

Mind you, to compensate, I started a team as mesmer to go UW.

I cannot believe the amount of people who don't bring res sigs with them, it amazes me.

As a warrior, I take healing sig on all occasions, just incase something goes wrong.

As a Ele.. well.. aura of (I forgot) gets used, unless I'm going up against mesmer monsters who strip enchants.

As a monk.. trying to keep everyone alife

As a Mes.. uhh.. no self heals unless I don't trust our monk or someone to res me when I forget I can't tank. However, if I'm going straight mes, which I seem to do a lot, I swap to secondary monk and bring resurect to be used during battle.

All up, I try to bring the skills that will help the team, not what satisfies my own ego.

BTW, if you're a monk.. kindly announce when your energy is back up full. I WILL rush into the next group, thinking everyone's got their energy back (this is as tank)

Most of the time they don't. So how different can actively trying not to tank and passively trying not to tank differ? We cut u guys a break? Man, sometimes i feel that i'm simply clicking 1, 2 ,3 and hitting a target is so much easier than healing. Healing isnt as easy as u think it is, and i suggest u try playing a monk before putting craphead statements.

I usualy don't even bother anymore with randon groups ( just play with people from my guild ) for the very reasons stated :

- people not waitng in between fights so energy can recharge ( even though one of my habits is to announce my energy level as frequently as possible ) .

- comments - after dying - like "Res me ,res me !!" or "why didn't you heal,you nOOb ?? " , forgetting there were 7 others in a party to take care of .

- unwanted invites ( by same people: over and over -even though you have already rejected the invite ) , if I want to be picked up by a PUG , I'll announce it .imagine it was you getting those , quite frankly, annoying invites all the time ?? Would you like it ??

-people being plain STUPID . The other day I had someone in a group at thunderhead keep with uninfused armor .You can imagine what happened when mursaat started to appear

No-one can fully undersatnd what it's like to be a monk in a party unless you have actually made one and played the game being a monk. I know of folks starting a monk and -after a while- giving up on it because of the abussive comments they get . I think that's really sad .

As for the comments made about the hench-monks .You are absolutely right : they are very good . But they don't grasp even most basic of strategies like humans do so you see them move into melee range quite frequently-or using restore life in middle of a melee battle !! Usually when I'm in a party I'd like to take along either a good "human " monk or one of the hench healers . In an 8 -man party it doesn't hurt to have 3 monks either ( 2 human ,1 hench ) as -inevitably - monks run out of energy too ,just like any other class .

My monk/necro rarely runs out of energy , but it can happen when I'm the only monk in a team and it's time people start realizing this ( of course : this is the reason for having 2nd monk , if that's the case a good monk will have sufficient energy ) .

But abuse of any class is uncalled for ( I'm not going about insulting any class, as I know you'll have bad players for each profession . It stand to reason there will be "bad " monks just like there's "bad " warriors,rangers,elems etc. )

Fixed.

Same could be said about any class. I'm amazed by the amount of people who have their heads in the clouds on missions/PvP or truly don't understand class rolls and game dynamics.

Hi all!

I have been reading these forums for a long time and have been playing GW since the beginning, but I have not made a post in this forum as of yet.

But this thread hits me at home.

When I first started to play this game, I did not want to be the monk. I wanted to be doing dmg and kicking butt! However, since that was the mentality of most people and my guild needed some monks desperatly, I decided, what the heck, I'll make a monk.

And I'll tell you what; I LOVE BEING A MONK!!! I have been playing the monk for at least 4 months now, making two different PvE monks and i love being the guy behind the team.

Let's state some truths first.
1) Monks are vital, they are not OMG I NEED A MONK ON MY TEAM OR ILL NEVER WIN AT LIFEEEE vital, but they are vital to have a smooth and succesful team.
2) Henchies are good. Not great, but good. I use henchies with my PvE chars mostly cause finding good PUGs can be a pain sometimes. But the simple truth is that a good RL player is always better than the counterpart henchie. This goes for every class (Especially Durham, that guy is so kah-razy)

Here's my 2 cents. I guess monks can appear snobbish, hell, I've proly APPEARED snobbish, but it's because of the crap we sometimes have to put up with.

One example of many:
One mission (i think it was one of the jungle ones) a necro died on my watch (hey, it happens) and the guy would not stop saying how much I suck, can't play, newb, whatever. I did the mission anyway, but suffice to say I was fairly pissed and annoyed.

It's my theory that this leads to the snobbish feeling, and not the other way around. I'm not snobbish; I tell the players I play with what strategies to use to survive and win in a particular map, because I have played the map a lot of times already. And because I am a monk saying this, this makes me perceived as "snobbish".

But I don't think it's right to leave a mission because of one ass because if that were the case, no one would be in any group at all (j/k). This would be a case of real snobbiness.

The solution to this is simple (it was stated earlier). Be kind to all players. As a monk, I don't expect to be told "GREAT JOB, OMG YOU ROXORZ" but I reallly hate it when people yell at me, for honeslty most of the time, their mistakes. But if you feel like telling the monk your playing with that they did a GJ, do it; it's not necessary, but it's very nice to hear.


Merry Monking!

I play as my monk mostly in areas like SF, FOW and UW as i'm always garenteed a space in a group. but some players i've played with in the past just didn't seem to understand how much energy can be used just to keep them alive, let alone the rest of the group.

Lately these groups have changed a lot i only seem to be getting people that know the areas and what to do which makes it a lot easier for me and more enjoyable as i get to look at fights rather than twitching to look at health bars every second.

It's quite common that if someone dies they normally say 'sry' to the rest of the group as they know that it was their fault for aggroing the wrong group or not waiting for regen, this has made me have some fantastic long games.

I play english european districts most of the time and i have met some bloody nice people.

Off-topic kinda: starting to get a lot of non-english speaking people come in to districts form a group with enough basic english and then when you get out in the zone they start talking in their native tounge, this totally sucks as theydon't really understand complex sentances and you just feel like a henchie to keep them alive.

You know what's the interesting thing? If i go into a good pvp group as a monk and tell them that i do not carry any res, most of them wont even blink an eye.

Only in PvE monks are expected to carry a res. Which is ironical considering that that 8 sec we use rebirth, we are not healing someone and we lose energy. If we use restore life, we go next to the person, into that aggro circle we like to avoid to res him. If we use resurrect, he comes up, in 2 sec dies because of random hits.

Yes, but it all depends on what the monk is expected to use the res spell for during a quest or a mission.

I am playing a monk now (as my 4th character) and I take rebirth. And I try to never use it during an actual battle. It takes too much time, and it costs me all my energy so I can't heal anymore immediately afterwards. The point of me taking rebirth is NOT to res a party member during a battle.

Instead, I try to position myself near an escape route in case things go terribly badly. If it is obvious that we cannot win a battle and all will die, I try to signal to the group left alive to retreat. I myself as monk run away as best I can. Why? Because when the enemy has fallen back, I can then rebirth the entire group (that is why I take rebirth instead of res) and then we can continue. The alternative is that the entire party dies and we need to restart the mission.

Regarding the OP's post topic: As monk I have not had too many bad experiences with groups. Once in the while I have met one or two that insisted that the monks in the party were not doing a good enough job, but then I quickly reminded them that any more talk like that will mean an immediate stop of all healing and ressing to them. Anecdote: two nights ago I was monk in a group in FOW with another monk and 3W and 3E. At one point one of the warriors died while performing the "holy book trick" - we simply ran out of energy to keep him alive - and he made the comment, perhaps in frustration, that the healers were not good enough. I just started to message things like "I did not hear that. You did not say that. I do NOT want to hear something like that again". We monks then got immediate support from the other two warriors who realized we were both doing a good job as healers. But for the most part I have found the PUG groups I have been in quite ok, telling me that I have been doing a good job as healer. So there are some good and friendly players out there!

Don't stay "Dumb Ranger" that is massive flame bite and also you trying to say all Rangers are bad, you just encountered a bad player, maybe it would have been a better idea to let that Ranger kill the mobs and ask the warriors to wait.

This is also the reason why ALL players should carry a bow regardless of their classes.

No I don't need you... in fact I don't often need monks to take care of myself. Throw dirt and Whiring defence and troll urgent does me fine. In GvG often I heal myself while the monks tend to other players.

So please don't make statements like that, no one has to beg you monks for anything.

/endrant

Well I’m going to go for an angle that most in this thread haven’t gone with.

In some way I’m quite glad that people act the way they do towards Monks, I’ve played pretty much all the classes to the end of the game and yes monks get a different treatment from players in general.

First the blind invites and the *Hey you f___ing monk join my group attitude. Personally I love it, this is the best screening method you can have as a monk, and really it’s simple and has a 100% guaranteed success rate.

Never accept those as they are usually a direct ticket back to the outpost you are standing in, these groups have a tendency to turn into pugs from hell at the speed of light. I would suggest not bitching about it and using that free and pretty accurate filter.

Once in a group, well I disagree with people that say no mater what you have to heal and resurrect. Sorry don’t buy that, if you have some people that are disrespectful to you or anyone in the group or by their action are jeopardising the mission’s success for the entire group.

Flaming: I’ll ask politely once to stop it and add that I don’t run with groups who flame each other, if the teams backs me up that usually equals a flamer that will shut up for the rest of the mission.

Bad player (Power n00b): Will explain and ask that they don’t run out of range or that an Ele isn’t really suppose to tank, that my mana isn’t coming from some divine intervention and that it needs to regenerate like anyone else’s. When the situation continues and again jeopardises the team, I simply stop healing them. Yes they go down and bitch, but you have to understand that either I’ll spend all my energy on a tanking Ele or do my job for the rest of the team.

Oh yea for this to work well, you also need to make it clear after they go down the first time and start bitching *Hey Monk…rez…rez…rez*, I simply mention that the rezing will happen only after the fight is over. Yes they will usually bitch some more, but I assure you that most next time around will change their fighting style in order to stay alive.

Great tools!...

Unik

My worst experience as a monk was when I had to go through thunderhead. For some reason I was the only monk, and I probably should have realised that I wasn't dealing with your average group. Halfway through I noticed I was in PUG hell, but a few of the guys seemed nice, so I didn't leave. When it came to the final showdown (and none of them had died thus far..don't ask me how.) the team overextended on one side, I had to burn most of my energy when the King's health started going down. Everyone began screaming at me, and as soon as he died I was a 'noob monk i cud hav done that on my w/r lmao noob'. When we returned to the start I got kicked. I picked up henchies and finished it in 2/3 the time

the life of a monk can be a unappreciated one...

i played 4 different classes extensively: e/r, mo/w/, n/mo, r/mo. although i've never played war, i used to solo tank for pugs in both uw and fow w/ my mo/w when prot bond was still feasbile. i used to run 90 min forgemaster runs hehe, so i have an idea of what tanking/aggroing involves from the tank perspective.

i do the best i can in every group i join, doing what i perceive my job to be, whether it's nuking, healing, protecting, sacrificing, minioning, trapping or interrupting.

however, there's one key difference i've noticed, regardless of whether playing my monk or not. in groups w/ jerks, even small jerks, no one is going to start cursing out the nukers because they might have very poor energy management and suffer from total exhaustion, thus unable to inflict any significant damage while the war must continuously tank as monks keep him alive. most players won't start railing on the ele for not bringing maelstrom (something i used to always carry on my ele pre-aoe patch) for a monk boss they can't kill.

i run a minion master, with 20-30 lvl 18/19 horrors/fiends in the heat of a fierce battle. yet, i've seen bad minions necros (they say they're minion) who can barely keep 4-5 undead up at a time, they're lvl 14 so hardly last long enough to inflict dmg. but i've never seen a war, monk or any other class curse out that necro, call him a "f'ing noob" or heap insult after insult upon him.

sometimes, in places like UW, rangers are more useful setting traps or blinding than standing in front of an aaxte at pt blank ranger, putting darts in the poor mob's left paw. i've seen it happen countless times, the only ones to say anything are generally the monks (the eles, necro and mes are just glad the ranger is the one getting killed, and not themselves!). and while i've seen a few monks go ballistic, the vast majority of monks try to guide the errant player in the right direction in terms of tactics (basically stay back).

wars on the other hand get a bit more abuse as it's generally more obvious when they've made a mistake. but some of them just seem completely blind to their radar, completely unaware of what's going on around them. although i must admit i've done that before when i used to tank in uw/fow, i was so busy trying to stay alive and hold aggro that it's hard to know what's going on w/ the rest of the party if no one says anything or pings for help.
but i won't go into the countless times on SF runs in which the war sits there hacking away at a boss character or gnasher way out where, while several carvers scurry around in glee, carving up your monks faster than your thanksgiving turkey. i just run around on my minion necro trying to heal them best i can w/ heal area, ping for the war to defend our monks, watch the monk heals get continuously interrupted, as my minons and the eles get ground into undead chutney. 9 times out of 10, in these cases the monks get the blame for their own deaths, insufficient heals and the war ditches.

the thing is though, no matter how bad any of these players were, they were probably all doing their best and trying their best at the game. they weren't there to intentionally screw anyone over.

so it's no surprise that monks like me get immensely pissed when they are on the receiving end of all manner of profanities, derogatory insults and blame. i am probably most busy when playing my monk character, generally giving my fingers quite a work out pressing keys and clicking on the party window. a very close second is my minion necro, constantly raising the dead, and sacrificing to keep them up as long as possible. and i used to think i was busy as an ele, having to hit "c"/"t" and casting a spell every 4-5 sec then wait for energy between major offensives!

and at the end of a bad battle against overwhelming odds, when you're at 0 of 60 energy but managed lose aggro and barely alive at 20hp, nearly everyone lies dead around you and you're massaging away that carpal tunnel... and then the abuse begins from the ungrateful dead...

i do my job. i enjoy the challenge of monking in uw. i don't expect stunning accolades. i don't even need to feel appreciated. i know i'm a good monk and i know everyone generally tries their best on a team. but what i don't need is crap that sometimes oozes out a corpse when i'm trying to relax

Another tips for warrior from friendly monk PLZ Do NOT considering using healing sig at low health -40 armour certainly going to get you kill trust us to do the job and to all other plz dont tell us to rez you when you surround by enermy cance are u going to get kill again and with more DP on your tow.

Once my fellow monks stop being self absorbed, arrogant A-holes maybe then we will deserve a break.
now i'm not sure that the problem runs so deep as some of you may suggest. maybe 2-5% of the people i have met in GW have got up my nose. no more.
i have NEVER been the target of monk-hate as my commonly used healer. i have seen it happen to others in maybe 2-5% of GROUPS. i don't see the problem really. maybe it is the time i'm online.

monk hate and all the numerous 'hates' i have seen complained of on these forums are, i believe, a product of the hatee's actions and/or attitude.
monks that wander around with the 'i'm a healer, use me or lose me' attitude, i think, have it coming to them.
when a ranger joins a group they will ask the question 'what skills do you guys want?'
when a mesmer joins a group they ask if they are to be anti-caster or anti-melee.
when a necromancer joins a group they ask if the group would prefer death, curses or blood.
when a monk joins a group they say 'i'm a healer' oh? so what if we already HAVE a healer? could you please change to prot?
no.
[leaves group after uttering something about noobs and how crap protters are]
warriors don't really have this problem, though i HAVE met a few warriors who ask if they are to be hammer, sword or axe. and a rare few groups that ask if you are hammer, sword or axe.
Eles are almost the same but basically in PvE it is fire all the way. if you are on the last missions then they expect a RANGER o cover their ass. 'bring winter!!'

almost NO monks will offer to change their skillset. what makes monks better than everyone else? nothing.

i never accept spam invites. infact i usually put a signature into my LFG lines. (LF useless no hopers) and ask if the group fulfills this. if not then bye bye.

when inviting a monk sending a polite 'we could use your services' kind of message works well.



remember that, dare i say this, all monks have alts. as those alts are they arrogant? is it something inside of people that only manifests in monks? are we simply ignoring the other arrogant players of other classes? or are we more sensitive to arrogant monks. after all who cares if the ranger buggers off? they suck anyway right? right?

could it, this monk hate, be a subconscious reaction to monks?

sometimes i wonder...

It's a pain in the ass when anyone in the group leaves, that's what people
seem to forget. It's just more noticable when we leave/drop because we have
a utilitarian use to other players.

No offense meant Charcol Ann but if you haven't/don't see the crap Monks get then you are...

1) unobservant or blind
2) don't play Monk/GW very much
3) or are lying.

Please do not get angry with me. I am not flaming you in anyway, but if you don't see the crap Monks go thru with other players... well something is amiss. I agree many, many, many Monks have a holier-than-thou(Is that a pun? lol ) attitude but Monks get so much crap I find it very hard to believe you play often or pay attention if you do. It's something that is plain as day...plain as the nose on one's face. I do not know how one could NOT see it. Anytime something goes wrong in a (PvE)group the Monk ALWAYS gets the blame.

I still to this day(no longer playing Monk, but I used to) see ppl giving Monks insane amounts of crap...I still to this day see ppl blaming Monks for things that are thier own fault.

I got so fed up with monk abuse that my monk comes out of retirement mostly at the request of fellow guild members. During those rare PUGs, I'm the party leader or I don't PUG my monk.

You can do most of missions with henchies monk/protector. I don't know why people insist on having "human" monks. Most of the human monks are not that good anyway.

The only classes that insist on having so many monks are either Warriors/Nukers and quite frankly, they don't know much about the game.

exactly. and that's one of the things i believe most other classes don't feel as much when they're playing on team. usually a group only has the minumum number of monks required for an area (between 1-2). i monk exclusivley in UW these days and i often feel obligated to stay even if i'm stuck with a bad group.

often when a ele or necro leaves, hardly anyone notices. if a tank leaves, w/ a good monk, anyone caster can still play as the aggro tank. the other players don't have to be too good, only the monk(s) keeping the tanking player alive. however, if monks leave a party, pretty much everyone else must be good players for the party to keep going, especially if no one is carrying reusable rez skills like rebirth.
that's not to say that monks are required for every party. that's not even true of UW. i've been in many parties as an ele w/ an excellent tank and casters and we've done quite well after all the monks are gone.

so while a good monk can hold a bad team together, it does not work the other way around. without a monks, everyone one the team will have to be good - that includes knowledge of aggro range, self heals, stances, prots, wards, and when to run and when to fight.


another thing is that ignorance breeds idiocy, and much of that spawns this monk hate. especially those who lie dead on the ground crying "res me res me monk!" probably have no clue that many monks carry rebirth in difficult high level areas which
1. takes 8 sec to cast
2. wipes monk energy to 0
3. only brings you back with a tiny portion of your hp and energy
any good player will not be rebirthing in the middle of battle in places like UW or defend north kryta as they are usually constantly spamming spells to keep the survivors alive.

to the selfish player crying for the monk to res them, they:
- think the monk is either completely clueless to the fact that they are dead
- are sure the monk sucks and doesn't res, and doesn't care about them because they know they could be the hero and save everyone from the mob of 10 smites
- suffer from delusions of grandeur and self importance


this is the same ignorance that drives necro, mes and ranger hate as most players are clueless as to what their skills do. it's like the warriors who run in and then shout "nuke! nuke! nuke already!!!" having no clue that skills like meteor shower have a 5 sec regular cast time, not including prep skills like echo or any glyphs if the caster is slow.

the difference though, is that the ignorance and "me me me" attitude of these players gives them a flawed belief that a monk has something against them in not rezing their corpse or healing them due to lack of energy. that the monk is arrogant or bossy or self-absorbed when they attempt to explain the drawbacks or rebirth, cast times, etc.

the only things some players seem to understand are simple concepts such as "me no energy" or "exhaustion". although i've seen many a player fail to understand the concept of ele exhaustion.

now that i think about it i very rarely get yelled at.

the only time i get yelled at is by the w/mo that charges 4 groups while the party stopped following him. then we walk by his dead corpse and keep on going. better off dead than arggoing another group.

Makes me think about the warrior in our group, after we have been playing in FOW for over an hour with one Ele in the party, who yelled out to that Ele to "Nuke Nuke" some worms we encountered. The Ele had to patiently remind him that she was a non-nuking air specialist. Uh, guess he hadn't noticed up to that point.

It would be nice if the game was properly balanced so that monks were not integral to a team's success, merely an accessory. Same goes for Warriors. Yes, it can be done; no one wants to do it.

My main charecter is my monk, Weasel Monk just for reference. And one thing i can't stand is monks who join a FoW group or a full UW group, as in 8 PC's not a UW farming run and use a 55 or 105 build and wonder why they die so quickly!

Had two of them in a PuG yesterday and both left straight after they died moaning at me for not healing them.... errr... excuse me, your a monk too, not my fault you didn't have a self heal and died with one 57 dmg swing from a shadow warrior because that shadow mesmer stripped your Prot spirit.
Don't get me wrong, one of my builds is a 55 farmer i use to keep the Hydra population down, no, not so i can sell to people, but for my own personal gain as i want gold! But that's used where it's supposed to be used, not in a party of 8.

Anyway, when i'm on my usual full heal duties, I always manage my energy, without the need for a necro to BiP/BR me constantly (even tho it helps) and i always take either remove hex or mend aliment, espically for FoW/UW runs. The main "monk bashing" i always get is, i'm sad to say, from Warriors again. I can count on two fingers the amount of other classes have constantly bashed me for not healing/res'ing. Most casters or rangers once you've told them the reasons why you didn't instantly heal them will take that into account. But the majority of warriors will sit there and b!tch and moan about not being healed or res'd.... two of my pet hates are the type that spam their health when they go 1hp over half way... little realising that one WoH will bring them to full health... or the fact if i only have rebirth packed they moan that i don't res them in the middle of a fight!! If i had an ecto for everytime they say i'm a "n00b" after i explain what Rebirth does, i'll have FoW armour for my whole guild's 4 charecter slots by now...

I think it's a pretty much of a muchness really... their are REALLY bad monks out there, but there are REALLY good monks out there too. I'm not going to put myself into either of those, i'll just let whoever i PuG with decide.

However, how many times have you seen a Mo/W or Mo/R who starts spamming "My energy is 1 out of 68", like 15 seconds into the battle?

Who only give you puzzled stares when you mutter something about energy management being superior to -1 energy regeneration items >.<, or just ask "what's energy management", and proceed to behave like uberleet healers ... *sigh*.

The fact remains that most monks I have seen in PvE are quite horrible. Of course, the same can relate to players of any class, it's just that the party notices and is hurt by a monk's inability to monk much more than by a ranger's inability to interrupt, for example.

If you want to get treated nicely and want to be called a good player every once in a while: Don't play a monk. Noone knows if a monk's good or not, unless they ever played a monk themselfs (which most people haven't).

I only play a monk because don't rely on others so much. It's maybe a bit rude to say, but something like 80% of the people suck, including 80% of the monks, that's why I'd rather heal myself.

Oh stop crying about the monk abuse. Its as if you only play one character. Personally i love playing my monk if the team sucks really hard. It maximizes my skill usage to make up for their suckyness. Yes you always have your idiotic war who runs in or the teamates who blame you for everything in the end bla bla bla. In the end you know how good you truly are and if you can manage to keep a useless team of retards alive then its something you should be even more proud of. What bothers me is the occasional monk who only has like one other character and only made a monk so he can feel needed and wanted. Personally my motto is if you want the job done right..you do it for your damn self. As only rarely you'll meet a monk that you can actually respect. The rest act like a bunch of spoiled bratts rubbing their class in as if no one else has a monk in the entire game..blahh!

You wont get respect because YOU chose to play a healer. Play all the classes with no expectations and as another team member..not as "Hey im the monk im holy and worth more then all of you". Your not the pinnacle of your team and you alone as a monk are worthless. This is a team game and everyone works together. Same thing for the poor mesmers.. no one ever takes them in the group yet they are some of the best players in the game...well some of them

sigh..... i am a mesmer. a domination to be exact. and i can take SoF and near by places patrol groups by myself. backfire, arcane echo, empathy, and any giving fire spells i have that day are amazing. the best way to kill something is to let it do it itself.
as for the monk tho, let this be something for all u uberconfident non monk players that think your amazing. maybe you are, but if a monk says dont go that far, or wait a sec, or dont aggro them, or im not ready, listen to them. it means they cant cover you and if you aggro something, your more than likely going to screw over the group. and you no what? this makes it your mistake, not the monks. if your the only one who dies, and you dont get rezd, it aint b/c of spite. the monk thinks that they would be better w/o u blowing it. at the very least, they are going clear the area b4 they rez u. it drains a monk to rez someone and puts them in extreme danger. and if u wna b rezd, there is a good chance that YOU could kill the whole team. the monk is not the king pin. the monk is just a player like everyone else. if your so awsome and you die cause you cantr take the load, dont get mad at the monk for lasting longer than you. we try, we try hard. and if this means letting a tanks health drop to a less-than-half level because the monk is pressed for energy and they are saving up to use a full party heal, then so be it. have patience people.
i play my monk like a play my mesmer. ill analyze the situation before i go in. prepare the needed spells and pick my targets carefully. and i cant stand it when ppl just ignore their team and constantly aggro things. sure my way makes for a slower game, but my group is usually good. i am at HoD and im glad to say that i have only lost PC's enough to count on one hand. this does not include galrath b/c i dont count that quest.

I'm sort of pissed at monks too, one time for ring of fire (I'm a necro/monk) and became a full healer and protector and there was another monk who was a primary and all he did was heal himself I'm the one who was doing all the work

But then again you find a fabulous monk and you should always motivate him or her and thank them for a good job and hopefully more monks will follow

If players want to be healed by the team's monks, then the players should be aware of whether the monk is nearby and ready for action!

I wanted to try out some new skill combinations and so as Monk I joined a team doing the Elona Reach mission. It went well in general, and the group finished the mission successfully. However, some things occurred which I notice occur very often in any PUG team:

1) Split group: not much discussion of which way to go in this team, and several times the team split into two directions. As the only monk in the group, I had to make a choice of who to heal and who to let die (if they couldn't take care of themselves). You want healing? Stay together!

2) Forward rushing: again, not much communication in this group. Several times the leading players charged on ahead to the next mob, while the rest of the group was picking up drops or just catching their breaths. What happens is the leading players take damage, I cast a healing spell, but it takes me many seconds to run over to where I am near enough to do the heal. You want healing? Communicate, make sure the team is near enough behind you.

3) No waiting: here again the usual problem; my energy is near zero and the leading players start the next fight. You want healing? Wait for regen.

4) Poor positioning: the group gets into a fight. The lead warriors keep bashing at their original targets and those around them. Other foes charge around the warriors and start to hassle the squishies. As only monk I would like to heal the warriors but there are two problems here: I am running around to save my own skin or the lead warriors are too far advanced for my healing to reach them, and to get to them I need to walk through the enemy. You want healing? Warriors protect the squishies and fall back if needed.

Playing strategically and tactically helps avoid lying on the ground bad-mouthing the monks

I made a Monk because the Guild did not have one at the time. I found it fine until I got ascended, with no real problems at all.

I have completed the game with him, as well as my other 3 characters, and now I only bring my Monk out to help Guildies or friends.

As soon as I pop anywhere with my Monk, I am greeted with about half a dozen group invites and a dozen PMs.

I'll nicely explain that I am there to help a friend/guildie, and then am greeted with a torrent of abuse in both local chat, and PM; ergo I change my status to offline.

I can see why all my friends who have Monk characters gave up playing theirs, and why Monks tend to go through post-ascension missions with their guildies. We are treated like "pieces of meat" before the mission even starts.

It is exactly the same when you are in ToA; you get invited by a group of 5 warriors, and when you decline their invitation, you are cursed in all four districts - they follow you telling everybody what a bad monk you are.

For those of you who have never played a Monk, and are complaining about them, I suggest you take a Monk to end game, and maybe you will understand the Monk's side a little better.

In my experience, Warriors and Eles are the biggest critics of Monks, and these are the two classes which have some of the worst players.

Be respectful to each other, and have consideration.

Peace out.

Been playing this game a lot for about a half year now, PVE only, and have 4 characters that either are finished or almost finished with all the regular missions. And a 5th character on a shared account underway. And this thought recently occurred to me: the great fun about playing this game when playing it as much as I do is trying out different combinations of skills, both from the primary and secondary professions of each character.

The trouble with this is that many players to team up with have some sort of expectation of what the most perfect build is for each character class, and then get rather annoyed when you party with them and don't fulfill their expectations. The problem is that this then leaves little room for experimentation or just doing something different for a change.

And this problem is of particular significance when playing Monk. Because everyone out there thinks that the Monk in the party is only going to heal heal heal (ok, as alternative: protect protect protect). How about a little slack, i.e. a little more defensive playing, so that the Monk can do something else useful as well? For example I made my Monk to be a Necro as secondary, because in the concept of "towards better health" I figured cursing the enemy with some of those great necro curses so that they can't do so much damage would require me as monk to do less healing. But in the last weeks of playing Monk, I haven't had any chance to bring along necro spells or use any time/energy to use them. Because the groups expect heal heal heal.

Oh well, I think I will just start playing Monk as I feel like, adding a little diversity to my skills. What the heck, everyone is clammering for monks anyway, so they can't afford to be so choosy and have to take what they get.

If people start nagging me about ressing in the middle of a fight i usually just say "busy"

To be fair, I see it happening frequently in SF.

Ok... this might be a long post, and some of it might be off topic, but after reading through every last post in this thread there's a lot going through my mind. Bear with me here..

I've never been on the receiving end of "monk hate" with my Mo/Me. Though it was my third character through the game, I'm not one to look up other peoples builds. I make my own and test them out 'cause that's a fun part of the game for me. Thus far, I haven't had too many problems.. a little tweaking here and there but no big problems to speak of.

With my first character (Me/Ele) I was in many groups where the "monk hate" was flowing, usually from some careless person that wasn't listening to the rest of their party.

With my second character (W/Mo) my PUG grouping experiences were much the same as with my Mesmer.

I would guestimate that, over the 2 months I've been playing (not a long time), at least 70% of all PUGs I've been in have had at least one moronic member that blames their lack of attentiveness and/or skill on someone else in the group. Alternatively, only about 5% of the PUGs I've been in have had a moderately legitimate reason to complain about someone elses inatentiveness and/or lack of skill. I'm honestly surprised that, as of yet, I've not been the target of someone elses "monk hate". <-- love that term, btw.

I've only been in one situation where I strongly wished to not ressurect someone, but as the success of our party depended on it I was obligated to do so anyway. I absolutely hate having to attempt a mission more than once with the same character.

I only have two instances in which I will NOT ressurect someone, and that's 1) if the mission has come to a point where it's not neccessary or 2) during a fight (far wiser to wait until the battle is over or I'm a safe distance away to use Rebirth).

As for the complaints that Monks are underappreciated, I would have to disagree. Anyone that's looking for a Monk for their group obviously appreciates Monks. I've toyed with every class in the game as a primary profession, and the only class I have repeatedly been "underappreciated" as is a Mesmer.

Funny thing is, I almost always look for one when I form my own groups. They make life SO much easier in this game, in so many ways. A Mesmer can interrupt anything anyone else can throw at them, deal awesome damage, remove any hex and then use it against the enemy, steal energy, drain adrenaline, and heal themselves splendidly. Yet, for some strange reason, when it came to missions I almost always had to rely on my Guild for a party because I could rarely get into a PUG or get people to join (and stay) in a party if I started one myself.

I attribute this to the fact that people see Mesmers as optional. However, every primary class out there is optional when it comes to quests and missions. The problem is there aren't enough awesome Mesmers out there to make everyone and their mom want to play one, or rely on one as a vital member of their team. When I play my Mo/Me I always look for another Mesmer as their interrupts, hex removers, energy drains, and adrenaline drains make my job as a healer so much easier (especially if it's a 1 monk party for a high end mission). Much the same could be said for Necros and their incredibly useful hp/energy renewal spells, and Rangers for their traps and rituals. Those three classes are, in my books, far more useful and "vital" to a party than 2 Warriors, 2 Monks, and 2 Elementalists combined.

I think the cries of Monks being unappreciated aren't truly a result of being unappreciated. Rather, I think it stems more from the fact that not everyone knows exactly how to best utilize their characters from the get-go, and misunderstandings arise as a result, or are simply in a PUG with people who don't know how to communicate their plans properly. In both cases the grief is a misunderstanding, attributed to either mis-communication or lack of game knowledge. The Warrior that runs into everything like Rambo isn't "a moron that doesn't appreciate Monks", they just aren't as learned in the concepts of team strategy as you'd like. Believe you me, it's possible for someone to get to level 20, ascend, and beat the game without ever figuring this out. My 11 year old son has done it, and while I give him tips and advice I certainly don't play the game for him. It's his learning curve, if he chooses to play, and his W/Mo build would make just about anyone laugh and call him an "idiot n00b". I'm sure some people have, but that doesn't help him learn how to best utilize his class for a team strategy.

To those who like to complain about another players skills: Rather than whining about what people do wrong, it might work better to give them a few tips on how to do it right. They can't fix the problem if no one tells them what the problem is to begin with. I do not accept "you sux0rz j00 idi0t n00b" followed by leaving the group as a form of helping someone.


But those are just my opinions, and I'm relatively "new" to the game, so I'm certainly no expert on the matter.

I agree that happen with some monk but i am anoy that after 10min of continuos fighting and warrior finally die and blame me, I was the only monk i have to heal him and 4 other players and i already ping that i need to regen after first 3 set of enermy [about 5 min or so of fightitng ]. I got max energy of 42 i cannot keep healing and removing hex for 10 min solid without regen

But to good side now, i have been in good PUG lately. I actually get thanks and good work from other player though mission like dune of despair thirsty river and dragon lair.
I definitly say the PUG have been improve but still alot of spam ivite to me which i found annoying.I am a player too you know i can choose who i want to go with, i am not just a henchie that u can pick at any time.

I was doing abaddon's mouth with a PUG with 1 ranger, 1 mesmer, 1 monk and everyone else was a warrior.

Our lone monk was EXCELLENT. And even after many of the group died many times (i was at 28% DP most of the time) we still finished the mission, without any nukers.

Ive met good monks and bad monks (I did Thirsty river with a monk who did NOTHING). And i must say...sometimes an E/Mo is better at being a monk...

It depends more on how much damage everyone is taking. A monk is basically a warrior, except on health. You can't really do much as a monk except watch healthbars and use healing spells. Myself, I'm Prot/Heal, focus on Divine Favor and Protection. I use 5 energy spells to protect and heal at once, mainly. I see your health go down, I pick a spell and click. They all do the same thing as far as I'm concerned, since I've turned my protection spells into healing spells with an after-affect. The only thing you really have to think about is recharge times and whether to bring out Healing Breeze on someone or not, occassionally smiting a hex or healing a condition.

I almost never get hate as my monk, and he's a prot monk. I useually expect to be eaten alive when I say that, but nobody seems to care anymore, ^_^

There was this one time, though, in the Undead Hordes quest where I went full smite, told hte team I did, and was still yelled at for not healing some warrior >_> I watched his skillset for a while afterwards, and he was a W/Me with NO self heal. No signet, no ether feast, no nothing. >_>