Necro Underestimation
Tuon
Hi. Soul reaping doesn't suck. Thank you for your time.
Indigo
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Originally Posted by Saerden
There is a huge difference between N/X and X/N ... and the only good reason so far to go N/X is to be considered weak and useless, and therefor not be a priority target...
When people say that necros are worthless, they mean that PRIMARY necros are worthless... E/N > N/X in most cases that dont involve special builds... there are few uses for necro runes, and soul reaping is much worse then energy storage in pvp usually... dont mention powerfull necro skills and claim that necros rock... sure X/N rock, but people are talking about N/X, so give reasons why you need THEM... |
I only have 40 energy (saving for scars, after buying 15k armor
), at present, and I rarely run out of energy thanks in no small part to the 5 energy that I get everytime something dies. My side or theirs.
Vilaptca
Necros shine in PvE and PvP, but many people fail to notice it. I've gone head to head against a Fire/Air Ele in PvP with my Curses/Blood Necro. Soul-Reaping helped. As my team and the other team are dying, I'm gaining energy back, in quick bursts which are enough to let me pop of spells again. That Ele ran out of Energy because he wasn't gaining it back as fast as me. As soon as those bursts of Energy started popping up, the battle I was sure to lose, and was very close to losing turned my way. 2 people died. All of a sudden I have 20 more Energy. I can quick cast off two life-stealing spells and that Ele that thought I was dead has just lost most of his life and its gone back to me.
N/E is not horrible in PvP. Again, Soul-Reapings bursts of Energy can help a lot more than the Eles huge stash of Energy. I find myself launching off more nukes than the Ele sometimes. The only reason a N/E might be slightly worse than a E/N is that the Exhaustion from many spells won't hurt an Ele's Energy pool as bad as it hurts mine as a Necro.
Soul Reaping does not suck. It is only worse right now because we have no skills for it. I would be willing to take everything out of my Ele skills for Soul Reaping if it actually had some skills.
N/E is not horrible in PvP. Again, Soul-Reapings bursts of Energy can help a lot more than the Eles huge stash of Energy. I find myself launching off more nukes than the Ele sometimes. The only reason a N/E might be slightly worse than a E/N is that the Exhaustion from many spells won't hurt an Ele's Energy pool as bad as it hurts mine as a Necro.
Soul Reaping does not suck. It is only worse right now because we have no skills for it. I would be willing to take everything out of my Ele skills for Soul Reaping if it actually had some skills.
ManaCraft
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Originally Posted by sino-soviet
1) Soul reaping to far too situational to be as useful as another more reliable primary attribute.
2) If you arent going to use soul reaping, there is absolutely no reason to run a necro primary. |
Heh, I think not.
ManaCraft
Lorelei
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Originally Posted by ManaCraft
I see. So my curse/death necro should in fact be a primary monk, even though I have absolutely no use for divine favor at all.
Heh, I think not. ManaCraft |
Forboding Angel
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Originally Posted by Zeru
Necros aren't underestimated in pvp. They are easily the crappiest primary profession in the game and only useful for special builds where SR or runes are useful, i,e OOV/BiP/OOP spam, Putrid in hoh, and condition spam setups. Necro secs are insanely useful for stuff like rend but primaries aren't worth it in most cases. Add in the fact that most necro primaries are newbs running around with life transfer/vampiric gaze and stuff and you can see why people detest them. General perception is wrong most of the time but they're dead on in this case with necros for pvp.
In pve they are amazing, but I don't think that was the point of the topic. |
Necros are the reason that korea had favor for almost 1 1/2 months straight
ComMan
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Originally Posted by ManaCraft
I see. So my curse/death necro should in fact be a primary monk, even though I have absolutely no use for divine favor at all.
Heh, I think not. ManaCraft |
Mithie
I've seen good teams with multiple necros in Tombs, and even fought vs. a similar team build in GvG once. Blackace is right, there's no "Majority necro build" which would be useful in all situations, but multiple necro prim's in a team can chain up synergies very very quickly and can brutally counter specific tactics when built a certain way due to necro-specific armor, soul reaping, and runes. However, in most situations, E/N is almost always preferable to N/E, when you simply don't know what sort of tactic you'll be up against.
ManaCraft
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Originally Posted by ComMan
No, he's saying that your Curse/Death necro should be a primary Ele, because Energy Storage is better than Soul Reaping (in his opinion and/or experience)
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The argument that any necro should have an elementalist primary is, to put it in plain English, a load of BS. The choice of class is not purely a matter of how much energy you have, it's also a question of which skills are available to you. There is plenty of reason to choose a necro primary outside of soul reaping, which was the point I was trying to make.
And as a sidenote, anyone who would claim that soul reaping is useless in PvP plays too much in the arenas and too little in tombs/GvG. For a necro, I'd take soul reaping over energy storage in a 8v8 pvp setting.
ManaCraft
Aracos79
I can think of one good reason to be a Necro primary, camoflage. Elementalists, Monks, and Mesmers definately attract attention from opposing teams. A Necro is more likely to go unnoticed for a few key seconds. Granted the best teams know what a Necro is capable of, but a lot of people will try and take out all the other casters before focusing on you. Those few seconds can make all the difference.
Ensign
The only class I'm turned off from seeing on my team in arena is a Warrior, as they tend to be so juvenile and clueless that they might as well be an empty slot. I think maybe one Warrior in a hundred actually does anything for a team.
Necros are actually pretty solid in arena, with a nice selection of DoTs and Warrior hate. Perhaps more importantly, a Necromancer you run into in arena is very likely to have A Plan. The class has a bunch of really random and oftentimes bad stuff that doesn't obviously mesh well together, and someone playing a necro has probably thought about their character enough to find a build that makes sense on some level. Compare that with many Warriors, who don't understand things any more than 'run up and hit things with weapon until they die'.
My dream team as a Monk in arena is a Mesmer, a Necro, and a Ranger. For a reason.
Peace,
-CxE
Necros are actually pretty solid in arena, with a nice selection of DoTs and Warrior hate. Perhaps more importantly, a Necromancer you run into in arena is very likely to have A Plan. The class has a bunch of really random and oftentimes bad stuff that doesn't obviously mesh well together, and someone playing a necro has probably thought about their character enough to find a build that makes sense on some level. Compare that with many Warriors, who don't understand things any more than 'run up and hit things with weapon until they die'.
My dream team as a Monk in arena is a Mesmer, a Necro, and a Ranger. For a reason.
Peace,
-CxE
IxChel
Let me add some fuel to the fire. Most opinions about the usefulness in PvP of soul-reaping were formed in the 2nd or 3rd beta, mostly due to a few insightful posts by Ensign (the God of Guild Wars Statistics). A collective opinion or bias against soul reaping immediately folllowed.
However, I'm not sure if this collective opinion has been updated with a serious change to soul reaping at retail. Before retail, rezzing in PvP was hard to do, it was mostly rare or took along time or never happened at all. With the change in res-signet behavior (brining you back to Full Health, and going off in 2 seconds rather than 4), they become far more valuable. Only idiots go into PvP without a res signet [1]. Further, and and I don't know if this is new, but signets recharg after you kill a Ghostly Hero. The end result -- a ton more deaths going on in PvP now than happened in the betas; I'd say by a factor of 2, perhaps more. There is one clear winner with this res-signet change: neco's soul reaping.
This is a great observation. I'd note that most people also argue that the bulk of necro skills are "optimal" at 8-9 and thus make for good secondary classes. I have a Wa/Ne that uses 9 curses... and it's a brilliant combination. As someone who almost always plays a mesmer (and not a necromancer), you've got me intrigued; I need to see for myself.
[1] On the other hand, I think the res-signet change essentially reduced the number of slots from 8 to 7. So, from this perspective, I think, as a whole, it decreased the overall diversity and fun of the game.
However, I'm not sure if this collective opinion has been updated with a serious change to soul reaping at retail. Before retail, rezzing in PvP was hard to do, it was mostly rare or took along time or never happened at all. With the change in res-signet behavior (brining you back to Full Health, and going off in 2 seconds rather than 4), they become far more valuable. Only idiots go into PvP without a res signet [1]. Further, and and I don't know if this is new, but signets recharg after you kill a Ghostly Hero. The end result -- a ton more deaths going on in PvP now than happened in the betas; I'd say by a factor of 2, perhaps more. There is one clear winner with this res-signet change: neco's soul reaping.
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Originally Posted by Feli
I'd say necro/mesmer are the better anticasters. Necros are allways like the last target as everyone thinks them weak... by then i've caused hell of a havoc by interrupting and eating up enchantments. Why should i go fastcast when interrupts have no cast time anyway?
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[1] On the other hand, I think the res-signet change essentially reduced the number of slots from 8 to 7. So, from this perspective, I think, as a whole, it decreased the overall diversity and fun of the game.
Perception
I play a Necromancer and I absolutely love her. If you load her with curses and blood points, she does awesome support damage. She weakens the enemy enough to allow the warriors to do more damage on them and she also heals herself which allows the monks a chance to focus on others for a bit. Lol, I love playing support characters... my goal is - keep us alive, keep them dead. 
thesecondrei
A good blood necro is almost as good a spiker as an air ele...but people underestimate necros because they are "unseen wonders." Meaning, people don't see the obvious effects of a necro. A mesmer is also an unseen wonder considering people don't pay attention to the caster that was just interrupted or the other caster that did himself in via backfire. A necro's presence in pvp is just not blatant and obvious, kinda like a mesmer. (Although mesmers are desired in pvp)
Teh Azman
I used to play mesmer and now play curse necro, and I am now the key ingredient in my guilds GvG battles. As for PvE, well, the underworld runs with curse necros speak for themselves.
sino-soviet
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Originally Posted by ManaCraft
I see. So my curse/death necro should in fact be a primary monk, even though I have absolutely no use for divine favor at all.
Heh, I think not. ManaCraft |
IxChel
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Originally Posted by sino-soviet
There is no reason, other than camoflauge, to run a primary necro if you are not going to use soul reaping; every necro skill is also available as a necro secondary.
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Ollj
all arguments for primary necros being bad in pvp
are so weak, wrong and bad its not worth to nullify them.
too easy.
okay just one.
there are other GOOD threads discussing how primary necros become primary targets.
are so weak, wrong and bad its not worth to nullify them.
too easy.
okay just one.
there are other GOOD threads discussing how primary necros become primary targets.
Mo/R9
I tank with my necro and I find it very effective.
Three words: Mass Life Siphon.
Three words: Mass Life Siphon.
salja Wachi
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Originally Posted by Zeru
Necros aren't underestimated in pvp. They are easily the crappiest primary profession in the game and only useful for special builds where SR or runes are useful, i,e OOV/BiP/OOP spam, Putrid in hoh, and condition spam setups. Necro secs are insanely useful for stuff like rend but primaries aren't worth it in most cases. Add in the fact that most necro primaries are newbs running around with life transfer/vampiric gaze and stuff and you can see why people detest them. General perception is wrong most of the time but they're dead on in this case with necros for pvp.
In pve they are amazing, but I don't think that was the point of the topic. |
rotflmao that must be the biggest load of crap i have ever heard. necros blow for PvP.
i am not even going to start on how important a necro is in PvP because it is obvious you would not recognize the spells and hexes if i tried,
suffice it to say that with the second best armor and some of the best spells in the game a good necro is just as good if not better and any air ele or mesmer you are gonna put out there. you are the truly ignorant one and i cannot wait till there is 1v1 PvP so i can show you how a "crappy necro" will own you in about 20 seconds
knives
My prot monk can tank. My mesmer can tank. My tank can tank. So why not let a necro tank? Everything can tank.
I agree with the underestimation of the necro class. I don't like those minion masters or those who only want to use death magic with blood (for vampiric things). I think that a wholey supportive necro could break or make a team. When monks call out low energy, stick blood is power on them and you can just vamp everything (when you get hurt, mainly because of life sacrifices imo) to help out the monk yet again, by not having to waste energy/time healing you, when he/she can focus on a more concentrated target. Order of pain, shadow strike, strip enchantment/rend, unholy feast, well of blood, enfeebling blood, shadow of fear, weaken armor, wither, defile flesh (on attacked monk), etc.
Though I have to admit, those N/W who go melee own my knocklock warrior hands down.
I agree with the underestimation of the necro class. I don't like those minion masters or those who only want to use death magic with blood (for vampiric things). I think that a wholey supportive necro could break or make a team. When monks call out low energy, stick blood is power on them and you can just vamp everything (when you get hurt, mainly because of life sacrifices imo) to help out the monk yet again, by not having to waste energy/time healing you, when he/she can focus on a more concentrated target. Order of pain, shadow strike, strip enchantment/rend, unholy feast, well of blood, enfeebling blood, shadow of fear, weaken armor, wither, defile flesh (on attacked monk), etc.
Though I have to admit, those N/W who go melee own my knocklock warrior hands down.
quartet4
I love playing necro to help prepare targets in PvP. Lingering Curse + Malign Intervention (+ optional Rend Enchantments for more enchantment removal) help fellow dmg spikers take out monks very easily. And unlike Nature's Renewal, these skills don't remove your own team's enchantments as well.
Rieselle
I thought another reason for choosing a necro primary over another caster primary was the armour - isnt necro armour somewhat better than caster armor?
Edit: Hmmm, after looking it up, it seems necro armour is 60AL just like all other casters?
Edit: Hmmm, after looking it up, it seems necro armour is 60AL just like all other casters?
Malchiel
It's better than any other classes. The necrotic is 70al, save against holy damage. But then holy damage is weak anyways, definitely not something you need to worry about. At least if you know how to play...
Big Fat Duck
necro/warriors always make my team lose (im a monk), i have to heal them too much
Malchiel
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Originally Posted by Big Fat Duck
necro/warriors always make my team lose (im a monk), i have to heal them too much
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Btw, n/w should be one of the classes that needs the *least* healing.
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| Though I have to admit, those N/W who go melee own my knocklock warrior hands down. |
Crusader
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Originally Posted by Big Fat Duck
necro/warriors always make my team lose (im a monk), i have to heal them too much
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about the only thing that will stop it is severe life degen,
or hex breaker.... damn mesmers.
goldfinger
I really think necros are underestimated because of A) all of the specific build teams out there (spike, spirit, etc.) and B) The best ones are full on support. A good necro can pretty much support any class, I said it before and I will say it again, a warrior takes down a monk ALOT easier when they are missing their enchentments, unable to block, taking extra damage per hit and damage each time they heal themselves, plus the effects of lingering curse/defile flesh are really priceless according to john Q smart player.
I also think the necro is harder to play, considering all of the sucky ones out there.
Whoever says necros suck in arena is wrong, dead wrong. Find a better warrior killer, in fact I DARE you to do so. If a warrior steps up to me they simply cannot win 1 vs 1. Rangers also have a tough time with yours truely too, hell I win way more than when I play as an ele.
I also think the necro is harder to play, considering all of the sucky ones out there.
Whoever says necros suck in arena is wrong, dead wrong. Find a better warrior killer, in fact I DARE you to do so. If a warrior steps up to me they simply cannot win 1 vs 1. Rangers also have a tough time with yours truely too, hell I win way more than when I play as an ele.
Skyro
Whoever says energy storage > soul reaping has never played any serious, high-level PvP (or perhaps is simply, and completely, ignorant). The only cases I can think of where energy storage is better is in arenas (which isn't serious by any stretch of the imagination) or if you're spiking or something and you need the huge mana pool (but obviously in such a case you want to be ele prime anyway for the runes). In the long run soul reaping far outweighs energy storage. 3 deaths from ANYTHING, ANYWHERE NEAR you = energy storage. 4+ deaths and you're already in the green.
ManaCraft
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Originally Posted by sino-soviet
There is no reason, other than camoflauge, to run a primary necro if you are not going to use soul reaping; every necro skill is also available as a necro secondary.
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Also, divine favor, as a primary attribute, is even more useless to me than soul reaping. Therefore necro is the obvious choice for a primary. Not to mention that unless you can spend exactly 200 attribute points elsewhere, you will always have a bit left over for reaping.
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Originally Posted by Blackace
Um, As a whole Energy Storage completely blows Soul Reaping out of the water. Anyone who has played any serious PvP knows this, and realizes it very fast. Like others have said before SR is decent in Dias maps, but other than that the effect isnt really much of an Energy engine. Energy Storage on the other hand comes with the energy battery of all batteries: Ether Renewal, potentially the fast energy refresher in the game. Soul Reaping comes with...?
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Not much of an energy engine? Well, it's certainly better than energy storage on it's own in any advanced pvp setting (no, that term does not include arenas).
Ether Renewal is a skill, not a primary attribute. Using it requires a willingness to sacrifice your elite skill slot.
ManaCraft
sino-soviet
A PVE necro can be a great character, equal to any other class. But in pvp, necros are erratic and far more situational than they ought to be. Soul reaping is utilized when you are either being thrashed or are thrashing. As for soul reaping being superior to energy storage....wtf? I'd take a 33 energy right off the bat ready to use, thank you very much. I can see death necro choosing necro over another primary. Superior rune of curses? Of blood magic? In pvp? Most useful necro skills are effective during the lower attribute levels, particularly in curses. You really don't need a 16 in enfeebling blood or rend enchantments.
Saerden
Ouch. Whats next, claiming Ensign has no clue about the game?
Does anyone has any REAL arguments for Soul Reaping / Primary Necros? Things like 2674 deaths > energy storage + ether renewel dont really hold, you know...
Does anyone has any REAL arguments for Soul Reaping / Primary Necros? Things like 2674 deaths > energy storage + ether renewel dont really hold, you know...
theclam
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Originally Posted by Blackace
The fact that you need 3 deaths to have a chance at equalizing ES more than speaks for the reason most good players dont pick Soul Reaping. 3 deaths vs good teams isn't an easy thing, and it's exactly why this dumb argument is still going-most people are horrible.
If you're a caster and you're going to be an E/N or a N/E the choice is ridiculously obvious in most cases: Energy Storage. Even without Ether Renewal guaranteed front loaded energy>backloaded conditional energy unless you can repeatedly trigger the condition. And since the condition is death,it doesn't take anyone with common sense to see why Energy Storage beats Soul Reaping in most cases, and why the "3 deaths=ES argument" is bullshit-because it doesnt. |
Necros give you advantages in armor (70AL or +energy is better than +armor vs. elemental in my opinion; +energy also minimizes the advantage that Energy Storage gives the Elementalist), lets you use Necro Runes and +1 on your hat, and sometimes frees up your secondary (instead of just taking E/N so you can have energy storage). You'll also be percieved differently by the other team and you'll be targeted either more or less, depending on whether Necros are part of a strong FotM build, or not.
There are good reason to take a Necro class. Soul Reaping is good, but not great. However, I don't think anyone can argue that it's better than Energy Storage. I'd rather have Energy Storage 90% of the time.
Zeru
This thread seems to be rivaling this one http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&page=1&pp=25 in terms of incorrect information.
Here's why you would choose nec primary:
Soul Reaping: As has been mentioned many times, Soul reapings condition is really terrible unless it is an altar map and that is only because it is 1v1v1 and there is another team to consider. The condition that has to be met in a pure 1v1 is a very deciding element and you getting some extra energy probably isn't going to mean much either way. Not a very good reason outside of uncommon builds such as an Order spammer.
Runes: Frankly there isn't a whole lot of use for this in most circumstances. Blood runes are the only ones I can see being good, getting 13 for a +6 BiP is nice and having high blood for an Order of Pain/Vampire spammer is definitely useful. I guess a death rune for putrid wouldn't be a bad idea, but putrid totally blows outside of altar maps. Not a very good reason outside of uncommon builds.
Armor: 70 AL is better than the monk/ele/mes 60+x vs something but when renewal spam dies down and more teams start running buffed rangers/warriors with judges insight you are really going to have problems. Not a very good reason.
Again, Necro is a very limited primary and is best left for lesser used, team based builds such as a BiPer, Putrid, or Order spammer.
Remember nobody is saying bad stuff against necro secondary. Rend is invaluable and several other spells are quite useful but the primary itself is not worth it 90% or more of the time in pvp.
Here's why you would choose nec primary:
Soul Reaping: As has been mentioned many times, Soul reapings condition is really terrible unless it is an altar map and that is only because it is 1v1v1 and there is another team to consider. The condition that has to be met in a pure 1v1 is a very deciding element and you getting some extra energy probably isn't going to mean much either way. Not a very good reason outside of uncommon builds such as an Order spammer.
Runes: Frankly there isn't a whole lot of use for this in most circumstances. Blood runes are the only ones I can see being good, getting 13 for a +6 BiP is nice and having high blood for an Order of Pain/Vampire spammer is definitely useful. I guess a death rune for putrid wouldn't be a bad idea, but putrid totally blows outside of altar maps. Not a very good reason outside of uncommon builds.
Armor: 70 AL is better than the monk/ele/mes 60+x vs something but when renewal spam dies down and more teams start running buffed rangers/warriors with judges insight you are really going to have problems. Not a very good reason.
Again, Necro is a very limited primary and is best left for lesser used, team based builds such as a BiPer, Putrid, or Order spammer.
Remember nobody is saying bad stuff against necro secondary. Rend is invaluable and several other spells are quite useful but the primary itself is not worth it 90% or more of the time in pvp.
Celes Tial
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Originally Posted by Malchiel
It's better than any other classes. The necrotic is 70al, save against holy damage. But then holy damage is weak anyways, definitely not something you need to worry about. At least if you know how to play...
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The last time I was in Tombs I did 200 damage to a necro with that very armor with one single smite skill click and for only 5 energy. Or how about you try taking 50 unresistable damage a second for 12 seconds while cornered / body blocked / knocked down / snared.
I wish all necros used that armor, it makes messing with them more fun.
Celes Tial
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Originally Posted by Zeru
This thread seems to be rivaling this one http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&page=1&pp=25 in terms of incorrect information.
Remember nobody is saying bad stuff against necro secondary. Rend is invaluable and several other spells are quite useful but the primary itself is not worth it 90% or more of the time in pvp. |
I guess you were not there when my necro primary took out half of the enemy team in Tombs a couple days ago, totally turning the outcome of the fight. 3 clicks at no energy cost, instant cast, 4 dead people in 5 seconds.
Maybe you'll figure out how I did it, but with that 'primary necros suck' attitude you probably wontnt.
As for soul reaping - it is possible to have it triggered 15 times in a single 2 minute battle with people who keep getting rezed, which happens quite often unless one of the teams is extremely bad. At 9+1 soul reaping, that is an extra 150 energy in 2 minutes. And thats just with 2 teams... imagine a 3rd team adding to the death pool. The area of effect for soul reaping is quite large.
ManaCraft
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Originally Posted by theclam
Plus the fact that once three deaths have occured, one team probably already would have a big advantage.
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And add to that the frequent presence of resurrection signets, which any player with half a brain will bring (and any team that knows what it's doing will kill frozen soil if it's up and they need to rez). Three deaths aren't hard to come by in 8v8 pvp, nor do three deaths mean the end of the match.
Arenas are of course another matter.
ManaCraft
Mithie
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
ummm dude three words NECROS DON'T TANK!!!
guys like you not knowing how to play your class are responsible for the problems newer necros have in getting groups. |
I won't even talk about the N/W, which as can be seen, is my primary character.
hobo13
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Originally Posted by Blackace
no Zrave necros are still pretty bad overall
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people view blood magic as the best necro attribute because it does straight up damage and the wells. aside from the wells and awaken the blood, blood magic is crap in pvp.
i believe necros are best at cursing, imagine being a warior, and whenever you attack you take 71 damae and the necro is healed for 23 of it, if you miss(you have 25% chance to) you take about 80 damage. you take about 45 damage whenever you attack or use a skill, that damage is to you and surrounding foes all of these effects last for 21 seconds. thats only using 3 skills. plus the 45 somthing damage skill is almost spammable, i can usually hit all the warriors with that combo before the effects of the first wear off. i could also slow your attack speed by 50% and give you health degen of 3 for 41 seconds, 1 skill. if i wanted too, i could add another skill for casters, give them mana degen of 2. or i could switch elites to that they lose all enchantments, and only get half healing for 21 seconds.
with an anti caster build i could give mana degen of 4 and life degen of 4 with 3 skills.
necros are awesome characters if you know how to use them. people just like their character to be able to fend for itself if they use PVE. cursing isnt the bet at that. however, if an axe or sword warrior runs up to me and tries to take me out in PVP. i send him running on back to his monk in a flash. while he is runing, i desecrate his enchantments and kill him. the joy of necros is that everyone thinks they suck, so when a team who knows they are good has a good one, the team objective becomes kill the necro really realy fast.
Keegan
i havent read this whole thread, but i'd like to say that, as a monk, having a necro secondary is extremely helpful. Shadow of Fear is an amazingly powerful spell, with nothing in curses, it reduces a group's attack speed by 50% for 20 seconds.
Not to mention blood ritual, well of power, and some others. I'm a well balanced monk, i have nearly equal parts in healing, divine, and protection. The added benefeit of shadow of fear just makes me...uber.
Not to mention blood ritual, well of power, and some others. I'm a well balanced monk, i have nearly equal parts in healing, divine, and protection. The added benefeit of shadow of fear just makes me...uber.