Necro Underestimation

N/Mo with martyr and plague touch can be pretty good, just pack some self condition spells (chilblains etc.) with your normal disease spells, let them pile up on your team and spam the plague touch? no?

You like Shadow of Fear? Try Enfeebling Blood as well. Enfeebling Blood severely weakens the target(& other hostiles around it). The main drawbacks that I have noticed with Enfeebling Blood are...

1) Health sacrifice. Not to big a deal but does make it so you have to pay more attention to health management.

2) It isn't a Hex spell. Not really a BIG problem but if you are using a spell that does more damage to a hexed foe(IE: the Elite Feast of Corruption) then EB wont work in that regard.

3) Duration. Even with a 16 in Curses it only lasts 21 seconds.


Don't let these drawbacks prevent you from using it tho. It can come in really handy. I kinda see it as the Necro version of the Monk spell Protective Spirit, but instead of casting on a teammie you cast it against the enemy.

of course yo will not talk about it since you have no clue on how to play a necro.

a necro is not a tank period end of story.

let us know when yo ulearn how to plya a good necro and we wil llisten

Heaven forbid we think outside of the box. The fact of the matter is, the necro CAN tank, and tank well, at that. Instead of embracing the paradigm that nec's can't tank, about about you provide some convincing evidence?

With aura of the lich every arrow of hp regen = practically two arrows of hp regen, for a total of 20 pips of hp regen. I can tank right through any conditions you put on me through plague touch, and my armor class (70) isn't as low as a mes or ele's amor. Also, I can constantly pound out blood sacrifices as Aura of the Lich = 75% reduction on blood sacrificed.

Maybe, instead of flaming me, you tell me why this build won't be able to tank alongside a warrior.

Let us know when you learn how to type and we will listen. Flames aren't needed, by the way, and I don't appreciate them.

The fun necro spell to have in random arena`s are plague touch. i think it`s a 3/4 sec casting time. and when ever someone poisons, bleeds, diseases me I just throw it back in their face and run off since the damage has been done already and try focusing on the called target (sometimes someone calls actually!) it's like a real quick counter to those attacks that give you a condition. there's another one spell like that but with range instead but it's slow.

now i have started a e/n a week ago and i have to say it is extremly powerfull ( this is only in pve but i will defenitly use it in pve) and i was considering a either a n/e or e/n and i think in ceratin situations SR could be better eg when there is 3 teams in a battle at once in the tombs but then i thought that most decent spells require 15 or so energy and thats why i decided to go for but if they do bring out skills for SR i will defiently make a n/e char

Whether you go n/e or e/n depends on whether you want to be a primary damage dealer or a support character. If you want to constantly put out aoe or spike damage, go with e/n, because that way, you can get a good, constant feed of energy and a deep enough reserve that a few mesmer inspiration spells won't drain you dry. If you want to be a support character, then you might want to consider n/e for two reasons: 1. runes, and 2. When people start dying on both sides, that's when you really need to hit off your support spells, and unlike en storage, soul reaping gives you that juice in bulk and bursts, letting you hit the support spell right away.

It all just comes down to opinion, I personally adore the blood/curses lines, and I switch between inspiration and illusion magic as the attribute for my secondary depending on what I'm going for. I'm a necro primary because I think necros look a hell of a lot cooler than mesmers. And having an attribute over 12 in both blood and curses to me, is worth it. Afterall I've found a few good builds using mostly necro spells alone, so why shouldn't I be that class as a primary? It looks cool, I'm able to boost up the attributes of my main skills, it fits. End of story for me. If you don't want any help from a necromancer don't party with one, if you find yourself hexed all to hell to the point that you can hardly do anything, by a N/Me, great, no matter.

Any primary class in the game can be good, we all know this. Necros are just as useful in PvE as they are in PvP, and hell...they're fun to play. So why all the arguing...?

To downplay the role of runes and armor in selection of a class is idiotic. A necro in AL70 armor takes 84% of the damage an elementalist in AL60 does in the average case. In addition the jump from 12 blood to 16 is just as useful as the jump from 12 air to 16. Those downplaying it are out of their minds.

In addition in any long match Energy Storage is going to be nigh on worthless. The extra power pool will quickly be used up, leaving you at the same point as any other caster. Not that soul reaping is super extra awesome, but neither is energy storage. And relying on ether renewal is unlikely to be very effective. A good team should have no problem stripping the enchantments off of an elementalist, leaving them with an elite that is worthless much of the time.

Actually necro's can tank very well, do you have any idea how much life we steal and regen? Hell I can put myself at full health with 2 spells.

Why is everyone so obsessed with that necro armor? Seriously. If you think a weakness against holy does not matter in PvP, then you dont know much about GW PvP.

Smiter builds are quite popular at the moment.

Why do people still believe that all of the classes can be just as good as any other if used correctly? A necromancer as a primary can be decent, and can fill a specific team role (BIP). But otherwise, its a shallow class which has less to offer than the others.

You dont listen to others at all, do you?

I think several of the experienced necro players who posted here could prove you wrong, but if you refuse to listen to anything but your own arguments, you will never see the truth.

Or maybe you will once your entire team falls to the feet of a necro bomb guild group.

lol do i know?? my primary character is a N/Mo, with over 2 million experience on that character alone, so yet i know esactly what most necro spells do, (i would add better thatn you do)

that being said a necro is not a tank. plain and simple. use it as a tank if you want in PvE i could care less cause that is mot important. i am talking about PvP. where your necro will die a very fast and painful death if you try to tank with it against even a semi skilled team.

Turning enemy HP into energy for your own team is just one of the many roles necroes can play. As I've said before, there's no "general purpose" necro build, but when tailored correctly, the necro can counter any specific tactic you can throw.

it is not a flame it is the truth. necros are not a tanking class. period.

make fun of my typing all you want to i could care less. fact is your game play is much worse than my typing. now go and learn your class

Rofl, I've seen N/W's that will make you eat these words. Of course the primary purpose of a necro is rarely to tank, but when the tactic calls for it, necroes CAN tank and be GOOD at it.

Then obviously you haven't played much PvP, as the few builds which utilize touch range necro dd are very tough to take down UNLESS you bring the specific counters. Necros can tank well for the simple reason that most of what you throw at a warrior to slow/stop him gets shrugged off easily by a nec. When you have another curse/blood/inspiration Me/N behind you chaining up synergy, you will be able to take A LOT of damage.

I'm sorry to say this but WHAT A LOAD OF BULLSH*T... you clearly havent played the koreans who use necros as often in PvP as we use our meatshields (W/Mo or W/E) and is one of their keys to succes.

I'm a necro that does PvP alot and i can take down alot of professions easily on 1 on 1...with warriors i usually end up stalling until i get help but I've taken down warriors alone before...in fact i can usually live against 2 people attacking me long enough for help to arrive....oh and in PvP when you're a necro just life siphon everyone and you won't die for 20 seconds or so...then siphon everyone again

I'd say if anything is shallow here it is your train of thought. It's exactly this type of prejudicial thinking that made the OP start this thread in the first place.

Try broadening your perspective. Play a necromancer, and learn to play him effectively. This can actually be done, contrary to popular belief.


ManaCraft

Necros are a good profession when you learn to use them...

I die more often in PvP with my W/E than I do with my N/Mo...I can counter SO MANY things with the N/MO ihave

Lol maybe I shouldn't have created this topic, keeping the necro hush hush would have left tons of people in the dark about how great necros can be.

At least in my opinion, the necromancer has the worst primary attribute in MOST pvp scenarios. Skills are decent, if somewhat erratic. I am not saying that a necro is a bad class, but to me, its USUALLY better left as a secondary profession.

the difference here is once your energy is gone, its gone and you're waiting longer for it to fill up. With a necro, you can burn through your energy and count on it being filled up with 1-2 deaths.

someone else also mentioned that with their necro, they pwn warriors, ele's, and rangers. I must agree. Since playing gvg pvp and such(about 2.5 weeks), i have lost to 1 ele, 0 warriors, and 2 rangers. However, he forgot to mention the absolute monk pwnage. Even if it takes longer to remove the monk, that is healing lost for the group. The only class that can be bothersome is GOOD mesmers, and those are few and far between.

You are correct, but be careful, all the newbs will try to prove you wrong with their stories of how the pwned other newbie wars rangers and eles or they'll say that you don't know how to play a necro and that once you're a better player you'll know better than to say necros are bad (it's really funny when they tell blackace this ).

Seriously though, if you want this thread to go anywhere, cut the bs and actually provide some builds or maths instead of purposely being vague. Until you do you do all these stupid condescending or vague responses are just wasting everyone's time.

Im sorry but you seem to be an ignorant fool telling me my guild sucks because i lose to koreans playing with necros primary. Primary necros are great = 1.In my necros case i get 10 energy per death in a pretty large area. You may think this sounds like a small amount but with only 3 deaths my mana pool is close to being refilled again. 2. primary necros gain different kinds of armor which are (in most cases) better than the other caster armors. Necrotic = 70+ al (but sensitive to holy damage), 60 al +15 versus piercing attacks, 60 al which also adds energy (giving you a higher amount of max energy if you were to dim to understand) 3. Runes...the option of adding runes to your armor and getting a higher damage output is for me an obvious choice. 4. Looks i actually think necros look REALLY cool in their armor (but i might be the only one ).

I might add that my guild consists of 3 members which are my closest friends in real life. When we play GvG we usally use all the henchmen and i think playing with them and my friends is much more fun than playing with a group of 8 players

It's nice that Blackace knows absolutely everything and is the perfect Guild Wars player and knowledge base.

Necros can be great if played correctly, enough said. They can be great anti-warriors, with their entire curses line, being able to weaken groups of enemies and slow the groups attack with 2 skills, being able to put on some of the most mass degens in the game, with skills like life transfer, life siphon, faintheartedness, or disease the opponent like no other class can using tainted flesh or rotting flesh. You can have more degens going for longer than any other class can. Or you could do some damn fine damage with things like soul barbs followed by an onslaught of hexes all in themselves, or if you're just looking for spike damage pump up curses to 14, along with blood, and then use awaken the blood for around 16 in blood and curses.

Then just say you have a mesmer secondary, you don't even have to put any attribute points in it. Just use something like awaken the blood, followed by shadow of fear, then arcane echo, then use Feast of Corruption twice for about 120 damage to anyone the attack hits. Say you had 3 warriors on a teammate, or that their casters were all near eachother. Just shadow of fear, arcane echo...feast of corruption twice and you've got about 250 damage dealt to their casters within range. That to me, is pretty damn nice, not to mention that you'd also get healed while doing it. Mass degens and condition spreading is also one of the best ways to take care of enemy monks, they can't heal EVERYONE, and necromancers can pull that off like no other class. Hell necros in themselves can be pretty damn good at taking down monks, blood magic skills that steal large amounts of health when the enemy is enchanted or casting a spell, and spamming spike damage so quickly. Well, to put it simply I know of monks who've said it's harder to deal with necros than mesmers.

But here's any idea, to all those who say "provide us with builds" and "tell us how to be great with necros to prove it". WE who've already played and gone through the necro profession many times KNOW what we're capable of, we don't have to explain it to the ignorant who refuse to simply click on the "skill listing" section of the site. What? Can't find a good build with the skills? Yeah, necros are harder to master than eles, warriors, or monks for sure. I honestly don't give a damn if people think necros are horrible, afterall that just means I'll be overlooked more in the battlefield, allowing me to work the necromancer magic for even longer.

People are starting to recognize how dangerous a good necromancer can be though, seems like more and more often groups I'm in start going after necromancers and mesmers before any other class, if there's a N/Me---he DEFINATELY goes first. We could sit here and spell out perfect builds for you people who think necros suck all day, but why the hell would we show you the power of a necromancer when we did it ourselves to find them out? Don't believe us? Fine, if you want to believe us. Go try looking for yourself, because until you attempt to understand a single build with a necro, your just being ignorant.

All classes have their ups and downs as primaries. My build as a necro varies, I've all the secondaries unlocked and most all the skills I want in the game, I'm changing my necro build constantly because it's fun, and most of them wouldn't work if I didn't have necro as a primary. Kinda like my ranger's build wouldn't work if I didn't have a ranger as a primary, same thing.

There is no "bad" class, in this entire game, only bad people playing them.

Right...stop being vague...

"In 8v8 organized PvP. Monks and Mesmers are higher priority. Life Steals are good, but with the healign power of organized monks become a waste. And so do many of the long cast/long duration hexes you carry. So with a majority of your advantages knocked down, you lose usefulness since you're no longer a primary target and you can't go on a hexing spree. You're damage isn't generally good enough to warrant a full build dedicated to it(yet), and most of your stuff either isn't worth bringing or just doesn't even work well together."

Now tell me that wasn't vague as hell. "and most of your stuff either isn't worth bringing" What STUFF are you talking about? How can you get any more VAGUE than "stuff". THAT is vague bullshit plain and simple. Yeah, health degens CAN get overrun by monk healing abilities, but if they couldn't...wouldn't that make necros near invinsible? Think about that for a moment.

Also...long casting times on hexes? What the hell are you talking about? Have you ever played a necromancer? Most everything is no more than a 2 second cast. Most elementist skills cast LONGER than that. It's MUCH harder to interrupt a necro's hexes than it is to interrupt an elementists' skills most of the time. Our damage isn't that great? Just using simple things like shadow strike, vampiric gaze, and feast of corruption I can take down most any warrior in about 10 seconds depending. But in an 8vs8 battle you're right, a monk focusing on that character CAN heal that damage. But...monks are SUPPOSED to heal damage.

Blackace you're being almost more vague than anyone else here "life steals" name some skills, and honestly, it's EASY to SPREAD health degens on a necromancer, and it's difficult for most monks to keep up with that unless they put their full attention to healing all the degen. If played CORRECTLY health degens can be great. A single health degen can make someone have to heal, and having to heal at all means you're doing damage to them to the point that they're in danger.

Now tell me...you say "their skills don't mix well". What "skills" are you talking about? All of them? Mind telling me why a simple anti-warrior curse build doesn't work? Want to tell me why a necro spamming moderate damage blood skills isn't just as effective as a ranger firing off attacks with his bow?
I'm going to ask you to follow your own advice and quit being so vague.

So if we're down to reasons why necro primaries are just as good as other primaries, instead of secondaries. Well, I personally use a few skills from both my necro primary half, and my mesmer secondary half. Right now I'm running an anti-warrior build using a mix of blood/curses and inspiration. For this build to work properly I have to have at least 12 in both blood and curses, and at least 10 in inspiration. Only with a necro primary can I pull this off and even push the blood and curses BEYOND 12.

Also, 6 out of my 8 skills are NECROMANCER skills, so why the HELL shouldn't I be a necro primary, throw on some runes and attribute adding facial scars to IMPROVE that majority of my skill set? Is that a good enough reason to be a necro primary?

I'd have to say damn well that it is.

Before anyone posts ANY more opinions about this topic, go and try out a necro and use one against PvE, PvP 4v4, PvP 4v4 teams and PvP tombs. Then come and post please. Oh BTW, I'm sure the OP is disgusted by all of you by now.

Congratulations on ignoring every point others have brought up against yours, without any reasoning / argumentation.

Guys like this irritate me

Simply because they are sure that they would "pwn" with their wo/mo

please...

ya know, I used to think that sould reaping wasn't all that great... Until I went to tombs.

Blackace, I'm kind of failing to see your point here. My necro is pure damage, and 1 on 1 with any class could hold it's own.

BTW I'll give you guys a hint, when playing a necro, a lower life total is a good thing. Not gonna explain why tho :P

I fail to see why you hold Energy Storage up as a paragon of an awesome attribute. Those extra 35 or so energy spread over the length of a battle are insignifigant in anything beyond a 4v4 battle. About the only use would be to chain together extremely high cost skills, but that is generally a losing proposition anyhow, since you would be spending a signifigant amount of time medding to earn back that energy for the next burst. Not to mention you just pooh pooh the effects of high blood while championing the even more negligable effects of Energy Storage.

I've played my necromancer for over 300 hours, unlocked every normal skill with every profession except for the monk, and tried countless builds on this one character since I've had him, I'd have to say I have a pretty good idea as to what makes a necro primary good.

Here's an example, in the bulids that I switch between I typically use skills like vampiric gaze, shadow strike, feast of corruption or spiteful spirit, desecrate enchantments, other miscellaneous curses I feel the need to swap out, and then a mesmer skill or two like power drain or something like that for the energy, every now and then I'll bring ether feast for the heal as well. Now tell me...if my build requires blood and curses high as I can make 'em, along with a third attribute in one of the mesmer lines, and most of my skills are of the necromancer class, why the HELL shouldn't I be a necro primary? Answer that question for me. I've no room for fast casting as I have to concentrate on the given 3 attributes, hell I've not even need for soul reaping. But since I could either be a mesmer primary or a necromancer primary...which would I be in this case? A necro primary, obviously, it would allow for a surprising rise in damage for the direct shadow damage or life stealing (not health degen) skills, adding 10 or more damage to each of them by having them above 12.

Tell me, in that situation...what makes more sense? To boost the power of most all of your skills, or to boost the power of one or two of them? And that's just something I tossed out there, I'm changing builds and experimenting all the time. Most of the builds I've done thus far require a necro primary, which makes sense...since that's what I am. I've also thought of many that would make good as necro secondaries, but that doesn't mean that there isn't plenty of reason to be a necro primary.

Also lets just ask a question, yeah necros are problably 4th on the list when it comes to damage, well maybe. But...since when are necros supposed to dish out that much damage? Most of their skills revolve around them being a support character, and they pull it off well.

Now, here's just a question. If the fight is that necros suck, any experienced player can tell you that isn't true. Necromancers do not suck if played well, just like any other class. On the other hand I can show you just as many shitty rangers as I can crappy necromancers, I can problably show you more cruddy warriors then I can cruddy necromancers. Every class can be good, every class can be bad, it's that simple.

Blackace all you've done to my posts is post counter-builds to each of the necromancer builds I've thrown out there, all you've said is that "any necromancer build can be countered".

You say it's a "big mistake" for me to be a necro primary because my skill set relies much more on my necromancer half. But...you failed to show me how. If my build calls for a necromancer primary I sure as hell am going to be one. The example you gave gives you an example of where having another primary other than what your skill set is matters, but that has NOTHING to do with necromancers, it's just an example of a build and is entirely irrelivent to the necromancer primaries. If the build calls for more power on the necromancer half, you're going to be one. And that is why people play them, plain and simple. If you can find a way to tell me that people shouldn't be necromancer primaries when their build calls for it, be my guest, but no such fact exists. It's like any other class.

ANY BUILD can be countered. A necromancer can counter OTHER professions builds. No class in this entire game, is perfect. There is no "godly" class that can just counter "everything" with one build, and thus far that's the only thing you've criticized necromancers for, is not being godlike. Yes their health degens can be healed over, that's the counter to them. If the monks are unable to keep up with it all, then they obviously weren't able to counter it all. Yes there are some builds out there that can smite necromancers with armor that weakens them to it. But there are combinations of other classes that can counter that. Yes a necromancer can take down some monks, while some monks can take down some necromancers. Yeah necromancers can take down warriors, but a warrior with the proper build...can do the same to the necromancer.

It's like this with every profession, you find me a profession that can't be countered and we'll say it's better than the others, but one doesn't exist. An elementalist might have more energy, but it's attacks are all elemental and can be countered and the damage decreased dramatically with the right spells, necromancers have many many shadow damage or direct life-stealing skills that aren't affected by armor or anything like that at all. There's a perk necromancers have over elementalists.

Every class has it's pros and cons over every other class, if there was no point to the necromancer primary, there wouldn't be one. It's as simple as that.

Every other point? So far, I've yet to see one good point made. Period. End of discussion. I see idiots, like yourself, who address the speculation of others with their own speculation and attack people for it. That’s quite a way to be a hypocrite. I've seen theories about how necros can tank, how soul reaping is superior to energy storage. Other than the primary attribute/runes, there is no reason to use a necro primary. If you can find a good use for the runes in a competitive pvp environment, then that’s great, a necro primary should suffice. But most useful necro skills, such as enfeebling blood and rend enchantments, just doesn’t require runes to be useful. Now lets go to soul reaping. Soul Reaping is inferior to energy storage for two reasons. Soul Reaping is situational. When you are getting thrashed by the other team, soul reaping kicks in to maximum effect at a much higher rate than you can use the energy. But the problem therein lies the fact that if TOO many things are dying, you're not gaining energy after you hit max... With soul reaping at 10, you need a couple things dying over a long period of time in order to get it's full usefulness. Which doesn't happen. Either everything dies too rapidly, or too slow. Meanwhile ES gives you energy to use fresh off the bat, 33 in most cases. With that 33 + 50 or so energy, you can cast away and deal some serious damage before having to regenerate. Realize that success does not depend on one person gaining energy; its when that energy comes into play and how efficiently it does come.

Celes Tial, why don't you take your own advice. Shut up, argue with facts, and stop trying to counter my speculation with your own. You have yet to make one post with any sort of argument or even attempted argument. So stop trying to let these other awesome "pro" necros shut me down for you.

Ummm, yes, I play a wa/mo. He "pwns" at farming, that he does.

This folks, is a prime example of an idiot who believes that anyone who uses a warrior/monk is automatically a bad player. In addition, he assumed I was a wa/mo for pvp, yet I play a hydromancer. You try to destroy stereotypes about necros (without absolutely no argument at all) , yet you insult based solely on the ever so stereotypic “noob wa/mo”. Classic. Also, terrific job of attempting to sound like an informed player. I am sorry, but being so hypocritical and resorting to attacking someone’s so called “noob” class is making you just as stupid as the “noobs” who you are attempting to insult. Way to go to be a non-conformist. And this is all coming from someone who believes that necros with less life are better. Please, don’t try to dismiss stereotypes by creating them at the same time.

You haven't backed up a damn thing that you've said, just one word answers like "No" and then you leave it at that, without reason or logic behind your answers.

"There isn't plenty of reason to be a necro primary"

Nice. I like how you showed any sign of forethought with this statement. There's just as much reason to be a necro primary as there is any other class in the game, all builds may require the primary or secondary of a profession, it's that simple. I've given examples of builds that would require both, you on the other hand seem to think that your opinion is fact and that that's final. Tell me why there isn't plenty of reason to be a necro primary. If your build calls for a necro primary and won't work properly otherwise, you're going to be a necromancer. There isn't any reason as to why you wouldn't be. Some builds might call for energy storage, some might call for soul reaping. Some people enjoy trying different builds within their class, and might want to use soul reaping later on. Just because YOU don't like the primary attribute does not mean it's worthless. Hell in the tombs or in a GvG battle I've found soul reaping to be loads of help, more helpful than any amount of inspiration magic spells I'd pour into my skill set. I personally don't mind getting 10 energy, or even 5 when there's a death, it's a damn good way to keep up your energy and the ONLY place where it's not useful is in the 4vs4 arenas, and even then it can be helpful if you've it up high enough. Now tell me why it isn't useful, the range on it is huge, and whenever someone dies, you get enough energy for another spell without having to do anything, and in the tombs people die FREQUENTLY, people are always dieing and being brought back, there's a lot of death and soul reaping helps a lot. If there weren't many bodies in the tombs, putrid explosion would be useless in the tombs, and it's not. As you've said earlier, putrid explosion is a skill commonly used by better groups. As we all know, this requires corpses. And for there to be corpses people have to die, so tell me why the HELL soul reaping is useless in such a situation.

Quit telling me "I'm not getting it", yes skills DO often matter. You keep giving specific examples that have NOTHING to do with the argument, they are in every way invalid. Yes that ONE build you just put up there with one BiP and then 7 other monk spells, that ONE build doesn't change the fact that many OTHER builds do benefit greatly from having higher attributes in most of their spells. It just depends on what the person needs or wants when it comes to their style of play. I don't just want to hear a "No" because that's ignorant and ridiculous to say, any player, even new players, can obviously tell you that if you as a whole are stronger and more efficient because of a decision like being necro primary, then you're going to do it. Any time when being a necro primary would make you more efficient than creating your character otherwise, the smart thing to do would be do do it.

Statements like "You're playing under an imaginary set of rules that say since you're using mostly Necromancer skills you must be a primary necro. It's stupid and is a fast way to lose vs better players."

That is the statement that makes no sense, it's the opposite way. I don't play a necro primary because I've found good uses for many necromancer skills, I've found many uses for necromancers skills because I'm a necromancer primary. It's because I started out as a primary necro that caused me to see the good in many necromancer skills I had available to me. I'm well aware that there are also ways to use other skills as well, still being a necro primary. But unlike some, I play to enjoy myself, not to always "win". I try builds all the time not because I think they'll make me an "uber 1337 h4x0r" but because I think they'd be enjoyable to play.

Hell I'll tell you something, if someone chooses a necro primary because they just like the LOOK of one, that's reason enough to be a necro primary. Maybe not for you, but they're problably not too concerned about your opinions on necromancers are they?

Lets put it this way, while making this game, obviously the good folks at Anet and NCSoft looked into their classes, made sure they were balanced, tried them out, for many months. If there was no point to being a necro primary, they wouldn't have given the class the same recognition as all the others. If necro primaries were ALWAYS outdone by other primaries, we'd have many, MANY more complaints about necros being crap.

Instead we see threads about how people often have the misconception that they're crap, and then we see a gigantic flock of people post about just how useful necromancers can be. That in itself tells me "Hey, the class must be able to pull off the same kind of impact as any other profession" And damned if they can't.

So instead of "all their skills but a few suck" or "No". Tell us just WHY necromancers are worse than any others. Instead of telling us counters to a bunch of necromancer builds, why not go search the profession and explore more possibilities for better builds? Every build has a counter, every class has it's weaknesses. If this wasn't the case, the game wouldn't be as balanced as it is. I personally find elementalists and warriors easier to take down than necromancers, on many of my characters, problably because those who I fight playing necromancers are playing the class because they don't undermine it, and they've figured out just how to play them well...unlike, some others I've found.

Either way, I'm enjoying my necromancer, I find myself to be a valuable asset to my teams whenever I PvP, and above all I'm having fun with him, having gone and played through every class now, necromancer is by far my favorite. Maybe it's because unlike some I don't read through the skill list go "these skills suck" and then play another class because this one appears to be weaker, no, I play a class, learn about it, and figure out ways I can make it work.

Afterall, this game IS about skill over time played, assuming this is true, a primary necro can be just as good as another class simply on...skill, right? If primary necros "sucked" as you insist, this game wouldn't be about skill, it'd be all about ones profession and skill set. If this isn't right, there's a flaw in the games balance I'd have to say. But we know this isn't the case, so I'd have to say that for those reasons, necromancers are just as capable as any other profession.

i had a n/w pvp toon had max death some sword and soul reaping and let me tell you i could kill ultra fast, rotting flesh+malise+plague touch =goodness, on top of that id make pets death nova them then blow em up with taste of death, i dont care how many HP's you have a death nova poison+rotting flesh=death with a few hits of my sword although i dont pvp anymore was fun to use her diseased hooker was her name and boy did she fit that M.O what a dirty hooker

Wow, I can't believe I made through all 6 pages of this thread (so far). I'm relatively new to the game, so I won't pretend to be an expert. However, taking all the pro/con arguments, I see both sides having valid points.

About Soul-Reaping: In PVP, yes, toons WILL die, whether it be people on your side or the opposing team. Hence SR is "event-driven" instead of being situational or conditional. SR's mana yield will scale upward when more participants are involved (more +deaths = more +mana), but in smaller fights, a necro-primary won't net as much. This death_count x SR_mana_gain is a linear relationship. An efficient necro should not have a full mana tank as SR yields more mana... if he does, then he's not optimizing spell cast and recharge times given their present mana generation.

About Energy Storage: In smaller scale battles, it is probably better than SR, simply because that extra mana is immediately available to lay down some serious nukes and counter-measures. For quick kills, this beats SR. In prolonged fire-fights where life/death/res are recycled, SR will probably reap more benefits due to sustained +mana gains.

The above only mentions +mana generation. For DPS/mana efficiency, an Elementalist still owns the crown.

Do these conclusions sound reasonable?