*Sets down Nature's Renewal to double enchantment maintainence cost*
...
Nothing's happening.
Anyway, it's too bad there aren't enough good enchantments to maintain on your allies, but that aside, yes, Ether Renewal makes for insane leaps in energy.
I love the smart use of the +15 energy wand and focus, to take advantage of the capped energy degeneration.
For those who think Ether Renewal is NOT overpowered
Mercury Angel
Numa Pompilius
I think this screenshot, which exists to show how much energy ER generates, has confused a lot of people, who think that the deal is that you can keep tons upon tons of enchantments going.
The deal, however, is that it is an elementalist skill which can give effectively unlimited energy and very substantial healing when combined with the Monk line of enchants. The image just tries to illustrate the concept of "unlimited energy".
The deal, however, is that it is an elementalist skill which can give effectively unlimited energy and very substantial healing when combined with the Monk line of enchants. The image just tries to illustrate the concept of "unlimited energy".
Eet GnomeSmasher
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stampede Zero
and, if you wanna counter that with"well its on the allies" look at the amount of teammates and allies u have, 7, and u have bout 13 of each! and guess what? LMAO i can make this, and i think i will make sumthing similar, just so show u how easy it is to do, just copy... and paste... WAHOO LMAO
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And stop with the "LMAO's" already... it's just lame.
Scaphism
Not new news but good to see the issue is still being raised, because the problem has not been fixed.
The old thread.
My personal highlight.
The old thread.
My personal highlight.
Eonwe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stampede Zero
LMAO that is totally edited, a major giveaway, with all those vital blesings, there healthd be through the roof! eve with prot prayers at 0, it gives bout 30 health, they should IF that picture wasnt fake, have bout 3k health LMAO that is totally faked, just trying to get stuff nerfed, and you can only put 1 of eah enchant on urself at once NAD I SAY AGAIN LMAO
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warped314
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Draken
Their are several things that would tell you this is faked... one being their are 7 people to cast these on 6 maintained enchantments and way more than 43 enchantments their. two he doesnt have quickening zepher up to decrease the recast time of ether renewal.
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Andy06r
The op is just trying to show what can be achieved, even if it isn't practical or useful in pvp to that extreme. Its obvious he is just illustrating his concern, and isn't trying to engineer the "latest pvp build". This is more of him demonstrating how broken a skill is and not the "omg look at this awesome pvp build" that a lot of people in this thread think he is doing.
My-Excuse
I would just like to say, how often do you see elementalist primary with maxed energy storage and monk healing and protection skills in PVP/GVG/HOH or soloing UW or FOW?
this will most likely never even dent your gaming experience so stop complaining.
this will most likely never even dent your gaming experience so stop complaining.
IxChel
I think some of you may mis-understand this image; the caster only has _6_
enchantments on them; and if you add-in ether renewal, you get _7_
enchantments for a regeneration of 7*4 or 28 energy per spell. This
means to refill the energy bar, you'd have to cast 6 reversal of fortunes (5
to recover the energy, the 6th to cover the cost of the reversals. You can
also stack a huge number of maintained enchantments using the blessed
signet.
enchantments on them; and if you add-in ether renewal, you get _7_
enchantments for a regeneration of 7*4 or 28 energy per spell. This
means to refill the energy bar, you'd have to cast 6 reversal of fortunes (5
to recover the energy, the 6th to cover the cost of the reversals. You can
also stack a huge number of maintained enchantments using the blessed
signet.
MetalIonicZ
You guys don't understand that Ether Renewal has a long cooldown compared to its duration. As many others have said, just rend it. The person will have to wait till it refreshes.
Mercury Angel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IxChel
I think some of you may mis-understand this image; the caster only has _6_
enchantments on them; and if you add-in ether renewal, you get _7_ enchantments for a regeneration of 7*4 or 28 energy per spell. This means to refill the energy bar, you'd have to cast 6 reversal of fortunes (5 to recover the energy, the 6th to cover the cost of the reversals. You can also stack a huge number of maintained enchantments using the blessed signet. |
Eonwe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MetalIonicZ
You guys don't understand that Ether Renewal has a long cooldown compared to its duration. As many others have said, just rend it. The person will have to wait till it refreshes.
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Tactical-Dillusions
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mercury Angel
Could a monk manage it without both Mantra of Inscriptions and Quickening Zephyr to cut down the recharge time of Blessed Signet?
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Mercury Angel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions
Ether renewal is for the attribute Energy Storage...unique to Ele's
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Divine Favour 16 gives 26 energy max (3 per enchantment maintained). At 10 seconds recharge and 2 seconds casting, for a total of 12 seconds, you're only getting the equivalent of 6.5 pips of regeneration. Not enough to break the 10 mark.
Assuming you have 9 Inspiration, then for an additional .5 pips needed of regeneration, you accelerate the recharge rate of Blessed Signet to 6 seconds. 26/8 = 9.75 pips out of a 10.5 needed.
Still not enough.
Tack on Quickening Zephyr and Blessed Signet should recharge in 3 seconds. 26/5 = 15.6 pips, on the other hand. Enough to maintain your enchantments, and gain a little extra, to cast more. (Mantra of Inscriptions is bumped up to 13 cost, but the 3 extra isn't enough to matter).
Edit: 14 Divine Favour should be able to manage it as well, and possibly less.
In case you're wondering what reason you'd want to do it on a monk, I'd guess Life Barrier. 40-48% damage reduction on all party members other than yourself. (which is not going to happen on an e/mo using Ether Renewal, as ER is elite.)
Final Edit: The shoulds come in on speculation between the relationships of multiple recharge enhancing effects. As much as I'd love to test it, I can't.
And the energy pool to work with is 78. (tattoos, +15, -1 regen gear.) You refill up to the max 78, spend 13 to cast another maintained enchantment over 2 seconds, with .75 seconds after cast, and that results in you having -22 energy. Another 2 seconds to cast Blessed Signet makes you lose another 7 energy, for a loss of 29 right before it completes. Blessed Signet then restores you 24-26 (depending on Divine Favour), and you're barely down. You could do it a few more times, or wait and remax your energy pool.
MetalIonicZ
If you notice that a person has ether renewal on them, is it not possible to knock them down and thus prevent them from casting any spells for a while. Not only that, assuming that a person is an El/Mo, he will mostly have monk skills on him except for the ether renewal. You can use blackout, diversion, and powerblock to counter the guy. Also, with rangers, they have quite a few skills that can interupt and remove energy from your opponent. Ether Renewal is not broken because it is an elite in the first place. Notice that it lasts about 10 seconds and has a 30 second recharge time. By interupting the spells a person with ether renewal is trying to cast, you stop them form healing.
Scaphism
Metal-
It sounds like this is your argument.
1) Ether Renewal is not broken because it's elite.
2) Ether Renewal is not broken because you can interrupt it
3) Ether Renewal is not broken because some other unnamed spells counter it.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of those points.
I don't think you read any of the links above, because those points have already been addressed, and I think clearly shown to be wrong.
It sounds like this is your argument.
1) Ether Renewal is not broken because it's elite.
2) Ether Renewal is not broken because you can interrupt it
3) Ether Renewal is not broken because some other unnamed spells counter it.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of those points.
I don't think you read any of the links above, because those points have already been addressed, and I think clearly shown to be wrong.
-z|o-
There is also a movie of this frapped but im not sure whether or not it will be publicaly released.
Warskull
Quote:
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Originally Posted by -z|o-
There is also a movie of this frapped but im not sure whether or not it will be publicaly released.
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-z|o-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warskull
The picture explains enough.
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John Bloodstone
I think half the issue here is not ether renewal (and I do acknowledge that it is overpowered) but rather than energy degen caps out at -10? why the hell is that? That means that even with natures renewal up, it is only effective if the E/Mo is maintaining 5 enchantments or less, any more than that and it's making no difference to the -10 energy degen...
In my mind, there should BE NO ENERGY DEGEN CAP. Having one only leads to exploits like this.
In my mind, there should BE NO ENERGY DEGEN CAP. Having one only leads to exploits like this.
ElderAtronach
Quote:
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Originally Posted by John Bloodstone
I think half the issue here is not ether renewal (and I do acknowledge that it is overpowered) but rather than energy degen caps out at -10? why the hell is that? That means that even with natures renewal up, it is only effective if the E/Mo is maintaining 5 enchantments or less, any more than that and it's making no difference to the -10 energy degen...
In my mind, there should BE NO ENERGY DEGEN CAP. Having one only leads to exploits like this. |
The percentage of E/Mos using "maintained" enchants is very low.
FluidFox
The only cap on the number of enchants you can maintain with ER is the number of targets you have to cast on. Once again folks, for those that seem to have trouble understanding... this is not a strategy or anything resembling practical. It is quite simply an illustraion of a questionable game mechanic.
If he could find enough targets, he could fill his entire screen with enchantments... all because of a single energy management skill. It's broken.
If he could find enough targets, he could fill his entire screen with enchantments... all because of a single energy management skill. It's broken.
Esprit
Elemental spells tend to cost more, energy wise, in the first place. You have a greater majority of 15 - 25 energy spells than 5 -10 energy spells, especially on the fire side.
Earthquake, Eruption, Mark of Rodgort, Meteor Shower, Rodgort's Invocation, Searing Heat, Deep Freeze, and Maelstrom, are all 25 energy spells.
Where as for Monks you have Light of Dwayna and Balthazar's Aura as your only 25 energy spells.
I use Monks as the comparison since they are most common with Ele's.
Even though Elementals have such high energy storage potential, it doesn't mean every Elemental has 100+ energy, the more usual energy caps around 80 or so, and so you have to be careful with what spells you have in your skill list, to keep up some semblance of damage output. You can't throw in three or four, 25 energy spells, because it doesn't make sense. And don't forget about exhaustion for many of those spells.
Ether Renewal helps balance this out, first you need at least 2 enchantments on yourself for make the spell worth it, and then there is the slot for Ether Renewal. So you are just left with 5 spells that could deal damage. You can try relying on a monk for enchantments, but that is taking a gamble, because your monk might not be able to cast the enchantment when you want to use Ether Renewal.
Plus it is elite, and you don't get the spell until later in the game.
For PvE, it is a very useful spell, and even for PvP, as you are able to put in more high energy spells if you have Ether Renewal to help you out. That way, Elementals don't burn themselves out in the ~20 seconds of a battle and then have to wait for energy.
Earthquake, Eruption, Mark of Rodgort, Meteor Shower, Rodgort's Invocation, Searing Heat, Deep Freeze, and Maelstrom, are all 25 energy spells.
Where as for Monks you have Light of Dwayna and Balthazar's Aura as your only 25 energy spells.
I use Monks as the comparison since they are most common with Ele's.
Even though Elementals have such high energy storage potential, it doesn't mean every Elemental has 100+ energy, the more usual energy caps around 80 or so, and so you have to be careful with what spells you have in your skill list, to keep up some semblance of damage output. You can't throw in three or four, 25 energy spells, because it doesn't make sense. And don't forget about exhaustion for many of those spells.
Ether Renewal helps balance this out, first you need at least 2 enchantments on yourself for make the spell worth it, and then there is the slot for Ether Renewal. So you are just left with 5 spells that could deal damage. You can try relying on a monk for enchantments, but that is taking a gamble, because your monk might not be able to cast the enchantment when you want to use Ether Renewal.
Plus it is elite, and you don't get the spell until later in the game.
For PvE, it is a very useful spell, and even for PvP, as you are able to put in more high energy spells if you have Ether Renewal to help you out. That way, Elementals don't burn themselves out in the ~20 seconds of a battle and then have to wait for energy.
salja Wachi
sigh.
another "elite" raising his ugly head.
ER is not broken just the players that bitch and moan about it are broken
another "elite" raising his ugly head.
ER is not broken just the players that bitch and moan about it are broken
MarkyX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
sigh.
another "elite" raising his ugly head. ER is not broken just the players that bitch and moan about it are broken |
edwinna elbert
What exactly is the problem here? If your team is stupid enough not to be able to remove a lot of enchantments, you're going nowhere. Rend Enchantments or Lingering Curse is vital is you want to get rid of the cheap-ass players. I certainly don't think that anyone could find this a workable tactic in any serious PvP anyway though.
Other solutions to counter this type of thing:
Dwarven battle stance
Any knockdown (hammer, lightning, earth etc.)
Distracting, savage, concussion shot, chocking gas, incendiary arrows
Diversion (spammed), half the other mesmer skills.
Anyway, doesn't an enchant removal remove the last cast enchantment? Which is this case will always be ether renewal. Let him cast it and then strip/shatter/drain/rend it right away, his energy drops to 0 and all the enchantments fail.
Other solutions to counter this type of thing:
Dwarven battle stance
Any knockdown (hammer, lightning, earth etc.)
Distracting, savage, concussion shot, chocking gas, incendiary arrows
Diversion (spammed), half the other mesmer skills.
Anyway, doesn't an enchant removal remove the last cast enchantment? Which is this case will always be ether renewal. Let him cast it and then strip/shatter/drain/rend it right away, his energy drops to 0 and all the enchantments fail.
Schorny
Please read the links posted by Scaphism
So much dumbness starts to hurt :/
Unlimited Energy is overpowered. No matter if you can disrupt it or not. No skills should give unlimited energy/health/etc.
So much dumbness starts to hurt :/
Unlimited Energy is overpowered. No matter if you can disrupt it or not. No skills should give unlimited energy/health/etc.
Epinephrine
Quote:
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
sigh.
another "elite" raising his ugly head. ER is not broken just the players that bitch and moan about it are broken |
Players that bitch and whine about a new build, or those that don't understand which skill is unbalanced are idiots. The guy who posted "nerf pets" because he was beaten by a build using "I Will Avenge You" missed the point completely for example, as pets being weaker wouldn't affect that build at all - pets only matter there because they provide corpses. Nerfing pets because of that is idiocy
There are some skills that are broken - Zealot's fire puts out damage at an incredibly cheap rate, while doing something else (healing). I posted builds using smiting monks during beta, and was laughed at, but the fact is that it is so efficient that it can't miss essentially. Granted, I never foresaw the draw condition spamming back then, I was thinking of orison/reversal etc, using chanelling as the energy source, but the fact is that it's been too powerful since day 1. Ether renewal is broken because it generates 6 times the energy of other elite skills that are energy generators. Any skill that adds health or energy/something without a cap is abusable - that's why blessed signet has a cap in it's description. That's why reversal of fortune etc... have caps in the description. Because as soon as you make a skill with no cap it can be abused to hell.
There are two forms of iritating dogmatism: The "everyone who complains about a skill is a whiner" form, and the "OMG, it beat me, nerf it" form.
Believe it or not, both are wrong, and there are legitimate complaints about skills, often well reasoned, by people who examine the game and come to conclusions about it. There are complaints about the weakness of skills as well - many skills are pitifully underpowered and thus aren't played. How about you look at some of the real criticisms before mouthing off about whiners.
Silmor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
Players that bitch and whine about a new build, or those that don't understand which skill is unbalanced are idiots. The guy who posted "nerf pets" because he was beaten by a build using "I Will Avenge You" missed the point completely for example
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salja Wachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MarkyX
You didn't look at the screenshot, did you?
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lol bro yo do not even know who i was referring to
salja Wachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
No, ER is broken and has been for ages.
Players that bitch and whine about a new build, or those that don't understand which skill is unbalanced are idiots. The guy who posted "nerf pets" because he was beaten by a build using "I Will Avenge You" missed the point completely for example, as pets being weaker wouldn't affect that build at all - pets only matter there because they provide corpses. Nerfing pets because of that is idiocy There are some skills that are broken - Zealot's fire puts out damage at an incredibly cheap rate, while doing something else (healing). I posted builds using smiting monks during beta, and was laughed at, but the fact is that it is so efficient that it can't miss essentially. Granted, I never foresaw the draw condition spamming back then, I was thinking of orison/reversal etc, using chanelling as the energy source, but the fact is that it's been too powerful since day 1. Ether renewal is broken because it generates 6 times the energy of other elite skills that are energy generators. Any skill that adds health or energy/something without a cap is abusable - that's why blessed signet has a cap in it's description. That's why reversal of fortune etc... have caps in the description. Because as soon as you make a skill with no cap it can be abused to hell. There are two forms of iritating dogmatism: The "everyone who complains about a skill is a whiner" form, and the "OMG, it beat me, nerf it" form. Believe it or not, both are wrong, and there are legitimate complaints about skills, often well reasoned, by people who examine the game and come to conclusions about it. There are complaints about the weakness of skills as well - many skills are pitifully underpowered and thus aren't played. How about you look at some of the real criticisms before mouthing off about whiners. |
ER in my opinion is not broken. is it powerful? absolutely but it is an elite. they are supposed to be powerful.
the same could be said for other elites.
however it seems like talking to a wall arguing about this.
stop the nerfing and play the game. smite build can and are beaten on a regular basis.
look at what most of the rank 6+ build are running in tombs. it is not smite.
FrogDevourer
Let's try to sum up the current arguments and why they are irrelevant.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=87
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=56
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=52
Please enlighten us with your builds. Most, if not all rank 6 I know are using smiters plus anti-smiters to win the Smite Wars.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=98
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=87
Quote:
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
ER in my opinion is not broken. is it powerful? absolutely but it is an elite.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
stop the nerfing and play the game. smite build can and are beaten on a regular basis.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
look at what most of the rank 6+ build are running in tombs. it is not smite.
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http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=98
warped314
Quote:
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
i have looked at this from all angels. i have read everyones input on this and other boards.
ER in my opinion is not broken. is it powerful? absolutely but it is an elite. they are supposed to be powerful. the same could be said for other elites. however it seems like talking to a wall arguing about this. stop the nerfing and play the game. smite build can and are beaten on a regular basis. look at what most of the rank 6+ build are running in tombs. it is not smite. |
salja Wachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FrogDevourer
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=56
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=52 Please enlighten us with your builds. Most, if not all rank 6 I know are using smiters plus anti-smiters to win the Smite Wars. |
also mystique did quite well with her group tht was not running smite.
FrogDevourer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
in fact just last night black rose was running a balanced build with some anti smiting. they wond the hall 3-4 times in a row as i remember (it was a late night so things get a bit blurry)
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Please read the above posts. When you can provide as much objective input showing that E.R doesn't need a fix, I'll be happy to examine your opinion. Until then, I'll respectfully ignore your hollow posts.
salja Wachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FrogDevourer
Is that all you have to offer in this discussion? A couple of guild names? May be you'd like to add the FotM build with 8 warr/pets?
Please read the above posts. When you can provide as much objective input showing that E.R doesn't need a fix, I'll be happy to examine your opinion. Until then, I'll respectfully ignore your hollow posts. |
*sighs* i was asked a specific question and i answered it.
as far as you ignoring my posts please do. I could care less.
it seems as if all you have offered is a NERF!!!
not that that surprises me too much though.
when you are not good enough to counter something hell nerf it.
Theus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
i have looked at this from all angels. i have read everyones input on this and other boards.
1. ER in my opinion is not broken. is it powerful? absolutely but it is an elite. they are supposed to be powerful. 2. the same could be said for other elites. 3. however it seems like talking to a wall arguing about this. 4. stop the nerfing and play the game. smite build can and are beaten on a regular basis. 5. look at what most of the rank 6+ build are running in tombs. it is not smite. |
2.Bull.If there were other elites that could be used like this we would have already seen them in GvG/HoH.
3.Irony at its finest folks.
4.That's not the point.HoH is FLOODED with them.I don't know about you..but going up agaisnt the same team over and over again is incredibly boring.
5.Thats simply because They are starting to run other characters(Mesmers preferbly) to lockdown other mesmers and smiters.
salja Wachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Theus
1.So..A skill that can basicly give you an unlimited source of energy..is not overpowered?Hell..why dont we make an elite that makes warrior completely invincible!ITS AN ELITE SO ITS JUSTIFIED!*Thrusts Pelvis*
2.Bull.If there were other elites that could be used like this we would have already seen them in GvG/HoH. 3.Irony at its finest folks. 4.That's not the point.HoH is FLOODED with them.I don't know about you..but going up agaisnt the same team over and over again is incredibly boring. 5.Thats simply because They are starting to run other characters(Mesmers preferbly) to lockdown other mesmers and smiters. |
i will respond to numbers 4 and 5 cuase they are your best ansswers
you are correct on both counts.
4
it is very boring yes i agree, hawever that wil not last long as the smite build will og the way of the air ele etc.5
exactly right my friend. they are making counter builds that work extremely well, yet are still very effective if they happen to encounter a non smiting build. you see that is the key now that they have begun counterig smite you will see less smite. (maybe not overnight, but eventually)then smite will no longer be the build "everyone runs"
Zeru
This is like arguing that Natures Renewal is not imbalanced with another bonehead.
Good grief when a skill is 10-15 times stronger than the next best skill while active (offering) and overall still 3-5 times stronger it's not that hard to realize it's way out of line.
Smiting is just one of the many ways to abuse ether renewal.
Good grief when a skill is 10-15 times stronger than the next best skill while active (offering) and overall still 3-5 times stronger it's not that hard to realize it's way out of line.
Smiting is just one of the many ways to abuse ether renewal.
salja Wachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zeru
This is like arguing that Natures Renewal is not imbalanced with another bonehead.
Good grief when a skill is 10-15 times stronger than the next best skill while active (offering) and overall still 3-5 times stronger it's not that hard to realize it's way out of line. Smiting is just one of the many ways to abuse ether renewal. |
in my opinion it does. every other caster class has ways to heal/regen energy an ele is very limited in that regard. hence why they put a strong spell like ER in his skills.
a necro has numerous spells at his disposal for healing a mesmer has healing/ energy degen etc.to defend himself
what does an ele have??
not even close to the number of ways to defend itself.
that is why i do not think it needs to be nerfed.