Big mistake by Anet...........

And you aren't in the slightest insulted by the hypocracy of the post that I responed to?

Everyone here should be deeply insulted by people that say 'it's just a game'. Every build that people spent time thinking up....just a waste, it's only a game. Every win in HOH, just a game.

If it were just a game there would not be Rank/Fame or Faction.

That I am wasting my time playing a game a little competitively and I should take do something with my life more meaningful, and this coming from person browsing an internet forum about said game?

COME ON! Don't Get All Holier Than Thou as well. He deserved every bit of my response. It WAS a stupid thing for him to say. Period.

I spent 6 months playing this game. Role-Playing with a single character (I have 3, but one is my favorite) and now, my 'career' in the game is ended, arbitrarily by a patch. And on top of that, he gets to judge MY CHOICES especially when nothing I did hurt him in any way.

But he seems to take comfort in the ending of my play style. OK thats fair.

the game should and is whatever you want it to be...you can still farm, you can still get uber weapons, you can still collect gold...you just can't sell crap weapons for godly amounts of money.

p.s. the storyline is atrocious

I completely agree with you my friend - I also work, have a wife, etc. However, in this context 'hard work', 'earned' and so on is simply a reflection of the time & effort you have put in to the game. If you spend 2 hours of your valuable time trying to find a weapon, etc. that you like - that's the 'hard work', and you have 'earned' that nice weapon you were looking for. We're talking 'virtual hard work' and 'virtually earning'.

Isn't that the problem? People charging increasing amounts of (albeit not real) cash, are driving the prices up. If you identify your gold items you will see they have a value attached. Why not charge that plus a little (say 50%) for your time and 'virtual effort' . Then you could buy the weapon you wanted at the same reasonable price. Just my opinion. I don't actually expect anyone to take any notice.

I know it's quite sad, but I really just want us all to get on and enjoy the game together - as a community. Unfortunately that would be so unlike real life I doubt our brains could cope with it, and we'd all disappear in a puff of love and peace.

[QUOTE=Carinae Dragonblood]Why is sleazy? It's sleazy to ask me to sell things below market prices.
QUOTE]

i thought this was truly amusing.

market prices are by definition what the marker will pay for an item.

you simply are unhappy with fair market prices

TIP

dont like the offer .........dont sell

actually communism is exactly the word to use, b/c what ANET is trying to do is to make a level playing field for mainly the pvp crowd and the communist approach is the right one to take. Although ANETS original intention FOR the pve is so we could unlock better mods and runes to use in guild battles, were not supposed to be treating this game as Diablo II, instead were supposed to be playing this game as Warcraft III or Socom II (ps2).

Me, im a big fan of first person shooters and strategy games in general and they did a very good job with the faction, so good in fact that i have stopped playing the pve portion of the game because it is useless to me now other than to get into a clan or guild, but before i played it to unlock the skills, item mods and runes. So...to conclude ANET has done a very good job b/c they have improved the main aspects of the game (which are on the box ) and i commend them on a job well done

lol, imagine if Socom 2 had uber l33t mods for their guns that only certain people who play the longest get and others dont, it would be utterly stupid in my opinion.

Well, I guess it *IS* true that besides the fact that it is online multiplayer, Guild Wars does have one of the shoddiest RPG Campaigns I've played in recent years. Though the reasons why are NOT AT ALL those that this update addressed. I had no problem with farming, high prices (honestly if you couldn't afford those items, who gives a crap? the coolest weapon I always thought was a +5 energy sword that cost 2k from a crafter... it's no longer there, but it's been replaced by another decent one), running, etc. Just about the only thing I had a problem with that ANet felt the need to somehow address was scamming. The rest are more about the core fundamentals of GW's PVE design and not quite something a random update can fix.

Although the fact that it is online multiplayer is a huge saving grace.

Whoever brought up the fact that you can now customize your weapons without feeling like you screwed yourself out of a "rainy day 250k," made a good point.

If people care about uniqueness, and I actually do, then ANet needs to add more personalization to weapons, even if its purely cosmetic. Make dyes actually color the weapon, not a random tiny piece of cloth on it, etc. How strong the weapon is never really mattered; it was all about looks anyway.

That's nice. I'm glad for you. I also have a job, and I make a paycheck that allows me to do all the things you mention. There is an implication you are making that only time at work is valuable to you. Is that the case? Your free time is worthless to you?

EVERY SINGLE serious PvP player should be deeply insulted by this comment. If it was just a game, there would be no PvP Ladder, my friend. There would be no Rank/Fame emotes. There would be no Faction or Experience Points.

We are not complaining about a spell 'nerf' or 'bot-nerf'. Bots are bad, and some spells needed to be rebalanced.

I am upset because everyone is taking glee in our misfortune, and being very self-righteous about how we are the cause of everything wrong with GW. We weren't making people pay 50 plat for a sword. A collectors sword is just as good. This is the market for wants, not needs.

And on top of that we get criticized by Mother Teresa-types saying were wasting our time playing games when others are out there saving kittens, or stoping fires or pulling dead people out of homes in New Orleans. Come On!

Were not playing patty-cake here. We spends lots of time playing and then when changes are made that invalidate hundreds of hours of game time, we get rightfully upset. is that articulate enough for everyone.

Do you understand why we are upset? We spent a lot of time playing, fighting mobs, fighting in the UW/FoW to aquire these items and a cash reserve.

OMG I got to about page 2 before I just quit reading all the moronic whining about green items.

I really think all your little crys about all thats left is PvP can be sumed up by reading the title of the game. GUILD WARS!! This game was based on a PvP type combat, the PvE combat was there to acquire what was needed and train you for PvP. If you were not interested in a PvP game why would you buy a game like this? (Yes I understand that many that play only do PvE, why I have no clue)

I for one love the new changes, I currently have everything unlocked for 3 classes and 80% of the last 3. There is so MUCH to unlock it and was insane to try and get every single skill, upgrade, and rune. Now people that actually want to compete in GvG aka GUILD WARS, can do so without spending a lifetime grinding the game. Some may leave but the people who actually understood the concept of this game from the start will remain.

Too all the rest of you grinding, gold collecting, price stabbing traders....go back to your EQ now pls. I for one will be happy to not see the 1000 lines of WTS in public chat in every town for GOLD UBER items.

then maybe they should make a better effort to properly design a PvE environment...as is the PvE campaign is lacking the proper difficulty to train you for PvP.....

I NEVER saw a farmer complaining about the way other ppl enjoy the game.
I NEVER saw a farmer forcing anyone to buy the shit he found.
I NEVER saw a farmer crying to nerf PvP / PvE in any way.

But I lost count in the threads ppl complaining about the farmers...

Ok, maybe that was poorly stated. Maybe acquire yes, but train only in the sense of learning the interface, skills, and other fundamentals of the game. That was my meaning by training, not that PvE taught you how to organize a team build for PvP. But it did teach me enough about skill use to understand how skills work, what works good against certain other classes, how skills from different chars work together to help complete missions easier, so in a way it forced some assemblence of teamwork. PvP offeres the building blocks for learning your char which is essential for PvP. Sorry if I made a rash statement without clarification.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]Lovitar, I am happy with fair market prices, when a free market is allowed to occur. But the latest patch will FLOOD the market with Golds and Greens with perfect stats. So it's true that fair market value for these items will be reduced. You're right.

The point though, is that, as many have said, no one needs a perfect stat item. They can play with cheap collectors items just fine.

Rare perfect items SHOULD be expensive, not cheap. Now Gold and Green arent rare... they are cheap.

Great. Now everyone can have that perfect item with 1% more damage. It's won't make you a better player.

But it was FUN to find a great, rare item and get excited that people would really pay fo this or that. Cool, and I get closer to Fissure Armor too! Woot.

But of course thats a waste too. We should all be the same monotonous robots, with the same stuff.

In fact we shouldn't even be reading this. We should all drop what were doing and go down to New Orleans and save everyone. That's more important than this silly Guild Wars game. Why are we here writing in this forum? Don't we feel mortally guilty that we aren't DOING something productive with our lives? Think about all the hard work OTHER people do, they goto work and other rescue people and others put fires out, and how we just play games. Man. We suck.

Amen... Its only a game, and players are supposed to have fun. Than stop forcing players to do things they dont like. This week we *must* work together to get access to the real nice gaming spots in PvE. What will it be next week? The need to win 3 games of tic-tac-toe in a row before being able to enter HoH?

Amen!

Oh! not that old chestnut again. You carry on enjoying the game your way - clueless apparently

We can carry on enjoying the other aspects of the game, like PvE. Title aside; check the game synopsis on the gw web site. It sounds like Anet designed this game to be both, and not one being a training ground for the other.

Don't get me wrong - a big part of the fun I get from GW comes from farming. However, I do it mainly to buy armour, etc. (and probably keys now too). The weapons I had no need for I used to give away - but now that I know many of these people immediately run off and sell it for 1000s, I just sell them to the trader - or salvage them for the mods.

Farmers do often complain about nerfing though!

I'm just trying to post enough to become a Cervantes - don't know what it means, but it sounds jolly nice.

I laugh out loud everytime I see someone say the game was designed as PvP centric. I just hear the same phrase from Spaceballs over and over again:

"Ha! You feel for the oldest trick in the book. What is with you man, come on!!" (May not be exactly quoted as its been a while since I've seen the movie. Used to use this all the time in Duke Nukem as a 3rd party RTS taunt file, ah the good old days).

Anyway, a PvP centric game would not require any PvE at all. Just give everyone everything they need to configure their characters and then let them go at it in the Arenas. What else can I say? Oh, well the storyline missions surely are not there for PvP. Whether you like the storyline or not is irrelevant (just responding to something I know will come up). Umm, Chapter 2. Well that'll be more storyline! Holy cow, the expansions aren't going to be created solely for PvP, shocking. So in the end you are left with a game (and yes its JUST A GAME) designed with both elements in mind; it really and truely is that simple - its not hard to see, and its not hard to understand this, is it?

It's not about this, yet everyone seems to want uber godly stats on their weapons, even if they dont make a difference to game play. Even when people were selling uber godly weapons, the game still wasn't about them. You could play the game and enjoy it without them, but there is no reason to take these items away from people that like spending the time collecting and trading them.

/signed

This is a simple equation.

People don't need farmers but farmers need people.

I don't want to have to satisfy your need just to get the best gear in the game. I'd rather feel the satisfaction of getting the item myself.

farmers don't need people....

Then farm it yourself or use a perfectly fine collector's item.

No, but my free time is not 'work'. It is...FREE TIME.

We are not talking PVP here. We are talking about items.

All serious PVP players want the UAS. Something I support fully, actually, because I do understand PvP players. All serious PVP players want a level playing field. There is neither honor nor glory in beating someone because you have played longer and have better items. All serious PVP players want to know that when they beat you, it is because they played better at that time, not because they had more cash, better items, or more skills unlocked.

And no, PvP should not be work either. It should be fun.

I agree. It is the market of collecting. And, in collecting somethings value is worth what people are willing to pay.

No, I don't understand. Do you not still have these items? Do you not still have this cash reserve?

There is still a market for those items. As I said, perfect items are still very rare. Green are often not as good (if not always not as good). The market is still there. THAT is what I don't get. If the market has changed to where 50K sword now sells for 10, so what? You might not have that 200K in the bank, but neither will you need it to buy your next golden item you are craving. You still have the same RELATIVE wealth you did before, if not the same numerical wealth. Yes, you can't sell for 100K now, but at the same time, the new person coming up has to pay 1k for all skills, can't get that kind of gold for selling their items either. So, no, while you might not have the same $ in the bank, what you will have will be worth more.

No, sir, I don't understand.

I couldn't agree more!

The reason that there are 175k items is because people are too lazy to get the item, or earn the money them themselves. Period.

Lazyness. That's why people buys gold and items on Ebay. Lazyness. But the farmers who show enough initiative to go get the items, who have a tiny bit of ambition get screwed. oh yea, WERE the bad guys.

You really NEED that 5/-1 Vampiric sword with +7 armor.

Most of you that 'agree with the original poster' are a bunch of n00bs. First off, green items are req. 9 by default (yuck), and are not THAT great. For example, a lot of the weapons have sundering (yuck) or zealous (yuck) and you can't even mod them. Gold items haven't gone down in price at all. Why? Because people like me and a million others still want their uber req. 7/8 even 9 gold item. Even if a green item costs 10K, and the SAME exact gold item costs 100K, people with money will buy the gold item because not EVERYONE can buy or have it.

Gold items' prices haven't dropped at all. I've been selling gold items all day for the same price I used to before the patch. Gold unidentified fellblades for 90K +, gold hammers/bows for 25-35K, its all relative.

This is a really stupid thread...

No, Farmers in general aren't the bad guys. Its the idiots that spend hours apon hours getting huge amounts of gold, or perhaps just people who do purchase off of eBay that are the problem. Because some people out there someday started saying "Daaa.. I'll give ya uber insance amount of gold for dat there 'uber' item" (aka 100K+)... its those people that are the problem.

Said it before, say it again: no item is worth 100K+. Just because some "people" (using the term loosely) can pay that much, doesn't make the item actually valued at that much.

actually it does....in a free trade economy market value is determined by the consumer and what they are willing to pay.

A new person to guild wars, someone buy's his nice black dye off of him for a bargain, goes to post and onslaught with WTS Gold-Max for xxk. See's all these super high prices and thinks omg, how do I get this much gold. So it's then on to running / rushing how to make money for something that maxed out by accout restuctuions only. Unless someone tells hay there these collector's a lot of people go with the flow. The game did not start out like this and Anet proable wants it to go back.

Anet made the decission that this is the and feel it's a way to keep / get new players to make these changes in the way the want the game to go. They are using heavy handed tactics but I have not doubt they kept this in consideration. I personally love this change myself, it allows me to more on play then earning gold and to be honest the collector's where already there. A lot of people didn't realize it so they made an alt to the collector's that was obvious to the masses.

Why do you take a their side more seriously than mine? It's the same game. But their 'profession' is more honorable than mine?

There is a level playing field in PvE also. If you want a uber item, go earn it. Go play until you find one or until you have enough money to buy it.

You'd say the same about a 60 inch plasma TV, wouldn't you? If you can't afford it, you have to work to get one, not petition the government to give you one.

I'm glad you asked this.

I currently have 42,000 gold. I have NEVER had more than 92,000 gold. I own one set of Grotto 15K armor, that I earned (money wasnt given to me)

I have 15 ectos, and 13 shards. I want to get Fissure Armor.

My entire inventory of sellable items is this:

1) Zealous Short Bow of Marksmanship, dmg +14% while enchanted, marksmanship +1 (18%), 1/-1 zealous.

Thats it. Was hoping to get 5-10k for this. Now won't get 1k. Fissure is a lot farther away now.

just give it away...that bow isn't worth 10K

Just because the 'few' place an exorbitant value on an item, doesn't mean it matches with what the 'many' would value it as. And I can say (without proof) with confidence that the 'many' in Guild Wars don't have exorbitant amounts of gold - save for eBayer's.. and suprise surprse: Farmers! (or at least Gold farmers).

Farming for materials and bringing them into the economy, this I can say I love the idea of. Even though I'm no where near the stage of acquiring 75K armor.

I have never once complained about farming in the least.

I originally complained that you are saying people getting green items have not 'earned' it. Have not worked hard enough for it.

And people STILL will have to. Gold item market IS STILL THERE.

/me scratches my head...

I don't know the bow market that well, but I wouldn't think that would sell for 5 to begin with. 1/-1 zealous is pretty crappy.

I'm failing to see your complaint, again. As you said:

Go farm! Go earn! Have fun at it!

But don't 'work'.

If you want a hand, I'm always game, that is if you can catch me actually online. Besides, I thought ecto/shards were dropping in price last I checked.

editted for typos (the ones my poor english can catch)

I also agree - no don't be surprised. My characters all have the blue collectors stuff - and they're perfectly fine. I have hung on to a few gold & purple items that are of use to me, but they are really just status symbols. Still, I'll be off looking for some nice green ones tonight

The gold item has always been a status symbol - which is why people want them. If they are pepared to pay 1000s for them, it's really not my problem. But don't immediately assume they are lazy - My first character, with which I completed every quest, mission and bonus, never got a single gold drop. I didn't even know what a 'gold whatever' was when I started to see them on the trade channel. My first thought was "So where do you get gold dye?" - duh! Still, they drop quite often now - if you're prepared to do a little light farming.

You can't really expect W/mo farmers to play a game based on skill?

On the subject of farming: I'm having alot of fun opening chests and either getting a really nice rune or a weapon that I can stand in Lion's Arch for 5 seconds with and say "WTS: Max Damage Gold and Purple Weapons only 600 gold"

And I even get to tell them that it's extremely defective after they buy it to freak them out ^^

It's alot easier to make money now. In two chest "runs" I got a Superior Healing rune and a Superior Vigor; a value of 40k. That paid for some 15k armor. I don't see how anyone is losing money off this.

I guess everyone complaing is just either a botter or an E-bay bussiness owner. Most of which are W/mo or Mo/W XD

My first impression on this thread is...WOW. It's amazing how passionate people can get over a game. Reading all of the responses, I can tell who actually have done pen and paper roleplaying and those that have not. I could go on for about an hour or so replying to all the points in this thread. So I will only discuss the ones that made my eyes burn

Dragonblood....take a chill pill. Yes you have spent countless hours on the game. I have too. But really, it's just a game. No need to get your blood pressure to go through the roof. UnOrthOdOx had a point..there are things in this world that call for strong support and outcrys. The decision of a company that designs games is not one of them. Really. As for the cry for people to get upset over and at anybody who calls GW just a game...well the truth is that is what it is. It's a way for somebody to sit back, relax make friends and have a good time. Pure and simple. Don't like the rules? Since you don't have the power to change them, chalk it up to time well spend and move on. You payed $50 for a game. How many hours have you gotten out of it? Me, im somewhere in the 300-400 range. Even at 300, that's $0.16 an hour. That is a pretty good return for a game. $50 wont even get you good seat at a sporting event...and they only last for a couple of hours. If you want to go again, it's even more money.


It seems that the only people who are vocal about the changes are those that partake in farming so that can have a "cash reserve". You say that 50p for a sword is the going price. You say that if someone is willing to pay that then that is what it's worth. To me, that is attempting to justify inflating the economy so you can show off your net worth. Has anybody ever thought about the effects of farming when it comes to the big picture?

Here is something I came up with while reading this thread. New player comes into game, knowing nothing about the economy. He goes through Presearing, hopefully avoiding those people who are trying to scam black dyes from unsuspecting new players (I know not everybody does it, but it only takes a few apples to ruin a barrel). New player thinks, hey 200 gp for a black dye...cool. Goes to post searing and learns that black dye sells for MUCH more. Ok..he got scammed. He then sees all these GODLY (man, I hate that term) weapons for sale, well beyond his reach. How am I to afford those "godly" weapons he says? If they are that good...I am going to need them. They must be good if players have to go and scam new guys for cash. How do I find these weapons? Let me just check ebay....oh look, I can buy gold for 20 bucks. Well, I guess...

First impressions can be a very decisive factor for a lot of people. I'm not saying that it happens to everybody. Heck, I'm not saying that the exact scenario has ever happened. But it could.

The fact is, the only people that this update "hurt" are the farmers. Are farmers gonna like it? Nope. This game is not called Trade Wars. I'm sure that ONLY doing farming and trying to see how much you can get for "WTS GODLY GOLD MAX DAM SWORD...c/o 70k, b/o 200k" is not what the developers envisioned. I have tried to sell stuff that I have come across, of course, but not for exorbanent prices. I think the most I have ever made on a single item was a fortitude haft +25 that I sold for 3 or 4k. Heck, had a decent gold staff that had low blood requirement and 3 mods on it. Advertised it and almost sold it, but because it wasn't max damage they didn't want it. The damage on it was 10-18. I wouldn't of guessed that since it did 4 less than max made it worthless. What did I do? Either I still got it, or I sold it to a merchant. Dont know how ppl can stand around for hours selling items. Would rather play "Bordem: The Sequel".

Last point...someone mentioned that by farming that they are also helping others get good stuff. I know those may not be the exact words, but that is how I read into it. For that person...have you ever gone into ascalon and given away stuff (max dam, blue, purple, and gold items) to new players who could use them? If not, well, then that arguement seems kinda moot now dont it? I know I have done it. I have read post of others and seen others do it. That is helping an online community and fostering decency. I try and do my part to keep the economy in check.

Scooter

Now you're just trying to get me excited ... too late

... ... i think the new areas are fun... maybe i'm just weird but I enjoy playing and exploring... the idea of playing the same areas over and over again to get great and perfect items has never really crossed my mind. I've logged nearly 600 hours (at least 400 in PvE alone) and I've never farmed for anything (except for the few occasions where I needed to collect 5 of something for a collectors item). therefore, they've added a new measure of excitement to the game, for me anyway. But I'm the weird one... the one that likes playing the game as an immersive world based on exploration and adventure...

And as a farmer I support you in this. I also assume that you have enjoyed yourself and have done just fine without the hated uber godly weapons.

Well, my apologies then. I did get a bit steamed during this thread.

Let me set the record straight. People who GET the green items deserve them. However, Green items are going to be plentiful and flood the market.

They are perfect items. I have never seen an imperfect green. Look around here on the forums. Greens have existed for two days now, and look at all the types that have appeared. There are posts of people getting multiples of the same item. And other people getting the exact same item.

Why would people buy gold items when the green items are more plentiful and better?

If that wasn't enough, then consider the additional change concerning chests and keys. Lots of people saying they got Superior Vigors/Absorbtions or uber gold items.

Anet might as well have added a Uber Merchant to the game who sells perfect modded weapons for 1k.

If they wanted to adjust the drop rate, thats fine. no problem. But they opened the flood gates and this will kill the economy. Just wait a week and see.

Disagree strongly. PvP without a doubt requires more thought than PvE. Team play is much more important. Strategy involves subtle yet important considerations (instead of just 'nuking' everything in site). It is much more dynamic (as exemplified with flavor of the month builds). PvE is much more static. Come on - nuking has been used since day one. It is as relevant to PvE as it was months ago. PvP has interrupt, aeromances, tactic warriors, KD/AS, frag mes, emo (I prefer elmo ), KD ele, zoo, nec army, etc.

Farming - now that is mindless except for the build part. But with the builds being easily copied - the intellectual part of farming is nil.

I think you give farming too much credit. There is nothing ambitious about farming except the willingness to do something tedious for exorbent amount of time. Rinse - dry - repeat. That is farming. If it was ambitious very few would farm. Last time I checked - monk sup runes are one of the most expensive. It can't be because there are over abundance of PvE monks out there. Have you tried getting more than 1 monk in South Shiverpeaks or Ring of Fire or even Crystal Desert. Nothing ambitious about farming.

Layziness? Hardly.


.02

Communist welfare state... LMAO! Go learn about politics before you spout rubbish like that.

Guild wars is a MULTI-PLAYER game... sure you can solo, but it wasn't designed for that, as we can see from the skill/build exploits that there have been. The PvE aspect is designed to get you ready to PvP, that's why there's the whole notion of unlocking skills and items.

This patch has basically made Guild Wars playable for the hardcore and the casual PvP player by giving better faction rewards and areas where you can get good items, while adding some new PvE content.

The economy was messed up... prices for anything remotely good were rediculous. Now people don't need to grind to get gold to pay for them, they can go find a green item.

Well done ANet.