Well... Ascalon under 10 arena in a nutshell?

that's actually significantly more difficult than preventing one to equip mulitple elites...but yes it's doable and it's probably the solution they are going to use.

they could make the level rules more tighter, so if you reach level 11, next round you would be kicked out.
they could make the low arenas give out more exp/faction, so you would level faster, forcing them out of the arenas

a frag mesmer is not the worst ive seen in the arena, ive seen necro use life transfer combined with life siphon which gets you a full -10 degen, and a +10 regen to you, a decent monk won't be able to keep up with the degen going that fast, also the 2 warriors arnt having much luck due to the +10 regen.

True, but if you never lose you can keep playing to level 20, seen plenty of level 11's there with questionable equipment. anyone have a screenshot of a level 12?

In the european district there arent that many players playing in that arena, and a lucky team (good balanced build) + a cupple cheaters can keep playing forever.
Yesterday I played 20-30 times against 1 team, they kept beating us over,and over again, until we FINALLY managed to take them down with 2 cheaters on my own team.

and 2 more screen.... :\
(2 of many...)

Half-Life 2 is a better game than a lot of other FPS offerings. The bulk of it is good. But if there was one enemy in the whole game that had a bug causing him to have such high hitpoints that you couldn't technically carry enough ammunition to defeat him, I would expect a patch. I see no difference here. This isn't just someone who is so skilled they cannot be defeated we're talking about here -- it's someone exploiting the low-level arena with items and skills that you wouldn't normally have at that point in the game. That's like slipping in a helicopter gunship as an enemy at the beginning of Half-Life when all you're armed with is a crowbar. It shouldn't be there, and it's up to the developers to get rid of it. Certainly, those of us who have played for a while have a chance at defeating one of these cheaters in the level 10 arena. But someone new to the game and PvP in general, won't.

If you bought a new car, and it was all fine except for the fact that the radio didn't work properly, would you sit back and say "oh well, the rest of the car's fine; I won't bother getting them to fix this"? After all, the radio isn't a major component of the car; a broken radio won't impede your ability to drive, nor damage the safety of the car, so why bother getting it replaced? Because when you pay for something, if you find a flaw in that product that can be fixed you expect it to be fixed. I'm not sure why people view games any differently than this. You did pay for yours like the rest of us, after all.

It would be fixable, but quite a big step, that I think they wouldn't want to do, and with the expansion, they can't without breaking lots of the new stuff. Just make the step after the arena a one way journey like the pre/post searing transition.

Not that it's going to happen, but that how I would do it.

I just got a mes past pre and decided to try the arena... mistake.

One of the 1st fits had the opposing team had W/Mo 10 tank (and someone who was 11) on the other team. All this does is make me not do PvP with this character for now. I will not even re-consider this once I can do 4x4 random teams or have a good shut down mes. Only problem is, not use to mes so I have no idea what level I will be (I do all the quests before I go in to the next zone) so I may not be able to go back.. not that I would miss much.

An also this is a lot of work for such little faction rewards unless you are actively "farming" for it expecting to come across new players.

Here's a though, if you been to draknor's then you get 0 faction reward (unless you kill someone who also been to draknor's).

I disagree. I don't think there's anything hypocritical about a 2nd, 3rd or 4th character paying for a Drok Run, as long as it stays purely PvE. Players who go to Droks to kit themselves out for Ascalon Level 10 PvP are sad gits who seem to need to feel superior over other players in any way they can.

Players who wish to develop 2nd, 3rd, or 4th characters just for the purpose of UAS, or to try different areas with different builds, to develop different dedicated builds for farming/L20 PvP+PvE/Exploration/Experimentation are not influencing or ruining the game for anyone else, and that's perfectly acceptable in my opinion.

all of you make very good arguments.. but i was in the ascalon arena one night.. i noticed alot of people bitching about this team of players with ALL droks armour and 3 of them had good elite skills, so i told everyone not to press the go button except me ( smiter monk) a shutdown mes and a ranger... and a warrior, well, i played with each of these chars before, and they are quite good.. so when we got in.. we found we were vsing the droks team, and i yelled out "" KILL ME I HEAL"" and lol 2 of there warriors went straight for me i killed them in about 10 secs,the mes shutdown there healer and there mes got owned by our warrior, the point of the story is to bascially accept the challenge, its ALWAYS possible to win, so instead of whinging about it, join them or kill them, it is easy if u get a good build and actually organize.

and i also forgot to add... i got ran to droks and bought the armour and the skills, but i agree with all of yous i went to the ascalon arena but when i got in a team and we won more then 2 times i quit, i dont like being the cause of unfairness, some people might flame me.. but ya know im not a person who wants to get 100 wins by cheating.. so yeah sorry.
Rome

A mesmer using peace and harmony...lol how in the world can you lose to that?

Don't get so worked up over the lvl 10 arenas. The game is definitely not balanced for those kinds of low levels, equipment/elites are just one of the many things wrong with ascalon and yaks bend arenas. Level up, get to Lions Arch, and play team arenas. It's much better.

Yeah but that's not the point. The point is the arena is for newbs. It's there so people new to the game can try out pvp, and hopefully like it and stick with the game. As it currently stands, the newb arena is definitely not going to give any real newb a liking for the game. By now it seems a full 25% of all people in that arena have droknars armor and/or elite skills so newbs are basically guaranteed to face not only a player with at least some experience and mediocre skills but a player also vastly better equipped.

The simple fix would be to copycat WoW and put minimum level requirements on better gear (ie. L16 req. for Droknars armor and elite skills).

I agree Endo - the point of a lower-level arena is to actually BE lower-level. It's fun when it's right, when it is TRUE skill that wins the day.

Xiombarg, of course you can beat the Drok's/elites. Once in a while. If you're lucky and they're dumb. Otherwise, if it's down to a ranger with nothing special and a warrior with drok's and eviscerate, well, ... that's where either a runner or a defeatist is born.

Red Locust - please please please please stop telling people to stop going to those arenas. It is such a wrong way to go about it.

If you remember, a certain high-profile restaurant chain got in trouble a few years ago for their racist hiring and serving practices. There was a class-action lawsuit. Anyway, the solution was NOT "just don't eat there" or "just don't try to work there." The solution was a change in policy. Period. [No flames, this is just a game and I realize that... but the principle stands.]

Well after beating the game legitimately a few times i found replay value in running new characters to droknars and building a faction farmer (back when u couldnt get xp from arenas) I made 15k faction too . Heres a pic.

i tomb with my rp char warrior


stronger then pvp ones

I sure hope you don't expect anyone to be impressed. No one even has Mend Ailment at Ascalon, ie nothing to counter/cure your Poison Arrow.

Sorry to sound harsh, but even if you have beaten the game, well, you deserve zero respect from me for that particular "accomplishment."

Are you actually expecting people to be impressed by you? You are one of the reasons for this thread in the first place! Did you even read it? Wow. You are just so UBER L33T for your ability to kill newbies with your Droknar's armor.

The point was he made a ton of faction, he didn't do it to impress you.

Stronger? Hmm.

I haven't seen anything that is outright better than PvP gear outside the +5 Energy Sword. More flexible, sure, but it involves far less grinding or dumb luck to make a good PvP character than RP. Whereas the pay off for making a good RP character pretty much gives you different looking gear along slight variants of mods.

I dont care about impressing people(thats what fame emotes are for), i just wanted to point out why i did it. To see how much faction i could get from doing this, and use the faction to unlock things that poor people like myself cannot buy. By the way i ran myself to droknars using two accounts and two Pc's, so i didnt pay a droknars runner, nor do i agree with that aspect of the game. It was just a personal goal that i wanted to accomplish. It may sound stupid to some, but everybody enjoys the game in there own way.

The issue is when one person's enjoyment starts to infringe on other's enjoyment. Sort of the same thing with rights. Sure, you have freedom of expression, until you start printing hate speech against...oh, I don't know, Muslims. That's a bad thing, infringing on others rights. Same with other's enjoyment.

What you're doing is selfish, nothing more.

I agree with you, and if a petition to stop the explotation of the lower lv arenas was made, then I would probably sign it, but as long as anet gives people the right to do this, then u cant expect people to not exercise that right. If I was the source, then anet could end this problem simply by banning me. Like i stated before in my post, my reason for doing it was an experiment. I have not had a so called "Noob slayer" character in the low level arenas for a few months now, and I probably never will again because the faction from HOH is significantly better. I apologize to anyone who I might have slaughtered while in the low level arenas. You can blame me, or you can blame players' ability to bring Droknars armor, elite skills, and "uber weapons" into the low level arenas which is ultimately out of my hands.If i could stop it, then i would, but i cant. Sorry.

I've actually started this conversation myself a few times. I couldnt be in any more agreement with those who believe that this practice is weak, abusive and should be halted immediately if not sooner. Furthermore, I believe that people who are honestly new to the game are getting turned off to pvp in general because of this very type of pathetic behavior. I've seen a few cases of it personally, and if thats the case I know there are other cases I don't see to add along to it. Which of course is a shame because PVP can be a really fun experience when its a hard fought win on a level playing field.

The ascalon/shiverpeak arenas are a pure joke now. Yea, I saw the joker with his rediculously proud presentation of the 65 win screenie from ascalon, I'd like to see that same guy head to comp arena where the playing field is more level and win 28 straight. I know i'm biased but I think that's a much greater achievement than poisoning noobs who dont have the hp or condition removal to overcome that skill. I've not got much longer to deal with it personally as my 4th RP character is about to turn 16 and then its on to actual pvp instead of the rediculous twinking contests those arenas have become. Even so, I hate to see anything that could hurt the number of players who participate in higher lvl pvp.

Its funny to me the response I get from people who do this when I ask them why. The most common by far is "youre just jealous noob, cause you cant afford it." Now, i'm not rich by any means but I've gotten 2 characters thru the rp game, my first was a monk, and used to be quite the farmer, i've got my own small guild which was entirely out of my pocket and I've spent a good deal of money outfitting new members to my guild as the progress thru the RP game. So I really wouldnt have any problem gettin the armor/skills if I wanted to. I think this answer is very telling to the mindset of the person who does this though.

They think i'm jealous, of what? Of how they win. They actually believe that they are better players because they were "smart enough" to give themselves and advantage and I'm just jealous because my 12th lvl ranger with nothing past Beacons Perch loses in a fight to a 15th lvl Necro in droks using life transfer.

I've come to discover that to these folks theres not so much what is right or wrong to do. Its all about what you CAN do. Therefore the only possible way to unfark the ascalon/shiverpeak arenas is to make it so that they CAN NOT cause it to be an uneven playing field. Hopefully Anet will finally get off the pot on this issue because its really rotten that new players have to play all the way to at least Comp Arena to see an even playing field. (not counting the presear match) More than that actually because if a new player actually went into comp arena say at 16 without being ascended or to droks or at least pickin up some elites its not actually a lvl playing field either, but at least its closer than Ascalon/shiver by the time they lvl up and gear up.

Basically the early rp pvp experience has fallen victim to the lowest common denominators of the playerbase, and its a real shame because those used to be some pretty exciting fights. I actually met one player, I'll spare him using his name, who actually rerolls every time his pve character hits 16 so that he can get friends to twink him up again and win alot in the low lvl arenas.

So theres my humble opinion on this matter once again. As long as it keeps being brought up I'll keep chiming in until anet realizes this should be fixed, and pronto.

Nah; I wouldn't put a level on items. A simple armor, weapons and skills check would be enough and wouldn't restrict those that want to experiment with their character.

And it's not as if it was hard to do; in their items/skill database, they simply have to put a flag on things a level 10 shouldn't be able to bring to the arena, and check for that every time a player enters the arena. That's AT MOST a 30 minute job for a decent programmer. The longest part would be deciding what shouldn't a level 10 bring to the arena.

Because as it's now; it's ridiculous. New players are disgusted from PvP because of this arena. And it's not as if it's going to get much easier later. Think about this scenario:

New player tries Ascalon Arena a few times, he gets beaten by exploiters. He stops.

He gets to Yak's, he gets beaten by a few exploiters.

He goes to Comp Arena, he hasn't been doing much PvP; he loses his first 3 games. He vows never to do PvP again.

He gets to Team Arena; tries it and gets owned by a Guild Team.

He gets to Tombs and never had any real PvP experience. Not having any rank, he can only get into crappy blind-invite PUGs. He loses badly.

He sells his game to his younger brother, who makes a Wa/Mo with Mending and Healing Breeze and goes "ownz pplz in d4 c0mpz ar3n4z"; that younger brother gets into every of your Random teams; you always lose.

Previously described New Player starts shooting himself with heroïn. He gets addicted. He dies of an overdose in a filthy crack house.

------------------

So you think that kind of cheating is not important? Huh?

Well tell that to his family!

^ I wish to beat you with a stick now.

You just linked sucking in PvP to overdosing on heroin. Here's a few thoughts,
like em' or not.

First off; Guild Wars (and I'm quoting the developers here) emphasizes skill
above time spent. Someone comes at you in Asc Arena with Hundred Blades,
find a counter for it. Since I believe every swing of HB is an attack in itself,
Empathy (a starting Mesmer skill) would rape the shit out of it.

No Drok wearing elite packing player is unbeatable. Don't quit, adapt. Learn
by playing to see what elites show up in arenas the most and learn to plan
around them. It's not exploitation, it's laziness on the part of those who are
either too proud or too poor to get drok armor and elites themselves.

Learn, adapt, and conquer. Or get the hell out of Arenas.

Rosette Pwnz

Of course! Now the Olympic teams should just stop training and fill themselves up with steroïds!

'cause of course, if you can't beat them, you should just adapt and do it yourself! Or get a gun and shoot your competitors! Yes, that's a good strategy! That would really be a true test of skill! The richest countries will be able to buy more drugs and guns for the athletes, and will win in every sport! That's the spirit!

Fact is, the playing field is NOT level in any case. Elite skills ARE better than non elite skills, and some players abuse the fact that the devs are too lazy to make it impossible to exploit new players. If Guild Wars was really about skill, it would strive to have a level playing field.

You're missing the point. A new player sees exploits like that and it's not getting beat that turns him off to the game, it's that he sees obvious exploits that Arenanet doesn't fix. It's logical to then think that if they won't fix that exploit, they won't fix others. It's very easy to look at the low-level arenas and see what appears to be a game rampant with cheats and exploits. I can imagine it turning off a lot of people to PvP if not the whole game.

I understand that, and I can't say that people wouldn't be turned off by it,
but look at it from another perspective.

Maybe Anet is fixing the problem indirectly. Think about it. The primary reason
Monk has been nerfed so bad is due to farming, but look at it systematically.

Balth's Spirit, Aura, AND Zealot's Fire are all available in Forge. Before they
beaten into nerfdom one could take these skills back to Asc Arena and be a
bigass ball of smiting happiness. Now it would take a lot more work to
accomplish the same thing. Nerfs affect the whole game, PvP included. I
honestly look for Thunderclap to be next, seeing as how all the commotion
has sprang up. If they simply disallowed certain armor or skills in the Arenas
people would find a way around it. They always do. Anet might be working
toward discouraging it in a new way.

Also, Guizzy. Shut up. You're turning this into another Government/Drugs/
Etc thread. Go to Droknars Dist 1 if you really wanna swing that way.

I guess irony is lost on the internet.

My bad for assuming it was obvious.

I'm all for irony, but a point or message in your irony would be nice.

Yes, Ascalon arena sucks. They should cap armor and don't allow people to equip elite skills in there, or just close it the hell down so it at least stops turning people off the game.

I bet half the newbies uninstall GW after they go in there and are given the impression that the game is 100% uncompetitive, shock full of exploits, and dominated by faction farmers and griefers.

But whatever... this topic's been brought up a dozen times before and nothing has changed... so I doubt ANet will ever do anything about it.

This is... interesting.

We all know the endless "running" debate. Group A likes the availability of running because they don't want to buy armor every 4 hours, and would rather just save up the materials and money for their final set. They want to play the game their own way. Group B doesn't like that people can skip ahead of them and get better armor than they have sooner than they can. They want other people to play the game THEIR way.

According to Sister Rosette, now it's reversed! Group B doesn't want anybody to impose a mandate that Droks Armor and Elites are now common AND acceptable in Ascalon Arena. Group A (Rosette and like-minded individuals) now say that if you want to play in Ascalon, get Droks and Elites. In short, to play in Ascalon you have to play THEIR way.

Can you be any more hypocritical than that? I think not.

Simple solution to the problem. any elites upon eneterin Ascalon arena or Yaks arena will be flagged and removed from players skillbar seeing as you cant get elites before those areas anyway. and when you get to the point of having elites, you should be well past those arenas anyway

most people who do this do it for the xp...they get rushed to droks and just do arenas (rather easily w/ armor + elites) for the xp instead of missions

Could you have misunderstood me any more? I think not.

I'm not saying everyone should have forge armor and elites in a level 10
arena. I'm saying that despite all their advantages, they're still only level
10's. They're killable. I used to PvP there and I had to deal with this problem
as well. Yes, deal. As in I didn't throw a hissy fit, uninstall GW and go
whine on LiveJournal. They're utterly killable. Focus fire on a warrior in Forge
armor and he drops just like anyone else.

Skill and armor advantages are only one part of it. Teamwork and coordination
is the rest.

How does allowing those who have been playing long enough to have the money to be run all over hell's half acre for elites and droks armor an advantage over people are who are new equate with skill > time played? 'Cause to me that sounds alot more like time played > skill.

Sure, now tell me what you would do vs poison/bleedng in ascalon with skills avaliable to a character whos not been to yaks bend yet... or life transfer. the generally limited number of hp avaliable to those players and the total lack of disenchant/hex removal at that stage of the game make certain skills far less counterable than hundred blades.

Nobody said they were unbeatable, and besides its not about winning or losing to someone whos being so lame as to bring droks and elites to the arenas its about the fact that anet is letting them effect the balance of those arenas in a rediculous fashion. When I lost to someone who was so weak as to need to bring those things to win, the loss itself didn't bother me, why should it, its not like I was beaten by that player, i was beaten by the advantage that said player gained by exploiting. Meaning I wasnt outplayed, just out twinked. The only people who really care about the winning/losing as opposed to the quality of the combat are the lamers who are behaving in this pathetic fashion.

As far as "adapting"... as I mentioned before how is one supposed to adapt to the fact that life transfer cast on a lvl 10 has ALOT more effect than on a lvl 20 unless that 20 is runed massively? A lvl 10 just does not have the hit points to deal with poison/disease like a higher lvl character. ( the type of character the skill was designed to be used on hence why its not available in the courthouse or the ascalon skill trainer ) how does one adapt to the fact that theres not a whole lot of condition removal to be found in that area of the game. In most, maybe not all, but most cases "adapting" just means bringing other things that dont belong to counter. If you call bringing things that dont belong so that you can compete with the lamers who do this adapting thats fine, I call it selling out.

I do like how you tell people not to quit, but to change how they play, to "adapt" (by how, gettin thier own droks?) or get the hell out. (i read this as quit)

The point is that justifying cheating and twinking in the PvP Arenas is just as ridiculous as trying to justify cheating and doping in real-life sport. It just can't be argued. Both are games of skill, and should not rely on techniques gained with dubious legitimacy.

I think the point is, particularly to those like Sister Rosette, is that all other things equal, the player with Drok's armor and elite skills will beat the player without. I mean, honestly, why should the Ascalon arena be reserved for twinks and people who are so good at PvP that they can overcome a huge handicap? Why shouldn't the guy who's played GW for three days be able to bring his lvl 6 elementalist into the arena and have a good time.

For the record, I get a screenshot of anyone I see using an elite skill in those arenas and report it as abuse to anet. After a couple hundred pictures come in, maybe they'll get the message.

Rico

I dont understand what you people are whining about, drok armour? elites? ascalon arena/yaks? erm.. who cares? I was owning those arenas with the highest death magic you could get at lvl 10 (Sup rune + head piece) and then at yaks at lvl 14-15 with lvl 16 death magic, wearing ascalon armour. My horrors were owning those drok armour users, and I didnt get run to droks. I capped fiends outside in kryta.

I was even accused of hacking by.. Yes you guessed it, a drok armour-wearing prick. New people would get killed easy by the "pros" but most new people dont touch the arenas, let alone know they exist.

I can assure you that most people who are complaining about it here are not doing so for themselves. They don't care for themselves, but they care for the new players that will be disgusted away from PvP after seeing how unbalanced these arenas are.

That's exactly the problem. These arena are INTENDED for these new people. "Pro" players are expected, if they don't want to get to level 20 and still have PvP, to make PvP characters; NOT make ridiculously overpowered characters and fight in an arena where new players will have their first PvP experiences. Me and all of my friends have tried their first PvP in Ascalon arena (before the Drok armor/runed up chars/elite skills were a problem).

You ARE aware that by playing the game how it's made to be played, you should be higher than level 10 by Lion's Arch, right? The new players that fight in Ascalon Arena don't even know you can capture skills! They shouldn't have to fight you, Droks armor and Elite skills; it's the reason the Ascalon Arena exists; so these new players can have an arena where they won't have to fight "uber"-players.

Also, be aware that I am having absolutely no respect for any player who does this kind of abuse. Absolutely none. You might not care, but realise while you boost your self-esteem by "ownzering th33z n00bz0rZ!1!1", more and more people despise you.

.....
.....
.....
Make a char right now and get to lvl 10 and go in ascalon arena, There are no "Newbies", All have drok armour, and elites. When I was with my horrors I was fighting drok armour people, never once have I seen a person not wearing drok armour there, except me, and I got called a "Newb" for it.