Something must be done about ranger interrupts - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

AeroLion

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

22 Sep 2005 at 17:44 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhydrian

And a mesmer completely shutting down opponents differs how? A good ranger is one of a very few counters to mesmers. They screw with rangers then i want across the board nerfs to the ways mesmers shutdown their opponents, especially against melee.

Please tell me how a mesmer can do the following things in about 10-12 seconds: completely lockdown monks, necros, other mesmers, rangers, and elementalists while also killing them and paying a minimal amount of attention to what skills their opponent is using. Oh and you can only use 4 or 5 skills to do this.

User Name

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2005

22 Sep 2005 at 17:45 - 82

Quote:

It just reduces the damage of it by a reasonable amount, and that's by having the interrupt skills ignore (not cancel) any preperation bonuses currently on you.

that's not even a nerf...that's the way it SHOULD have been....and the only reasonable way to fix this build. interupts SHOULD do damage...if you're casting your awareness on the battlefield SHOULD be down. Therefore you would take more damage. Interupts doing a bit more dmg makes perfect sense....this proposed "fix" doesn't take away the effectiveness of the skill...only the ability to spam spike dmg using it. I don't see 'fixing' the skills to work this way as hurting anyone who isn't abusing the hell out of Savage Shot.

Zorlag

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

22 Sep 2005 at 18:00 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syno Nym

What's sad in fact is how people can't see why there are so many complaints.

Let's see how a ranger can interrupt :

1_Choking gaz + Quick shot
2_Incendiary arrows + Tiger's fury
3_Punishing shot + Savage shot + Distracting shot (+ Serpent quickness)

The first combo is balanced because of the duration and cost of Choking gaz. Moreover, the damage this combo deals isn't that great.

The second combo is balanced because Incendiary arrows has a very short duration (even shorter than Choking gaz) and a fairly long recast time.

The third combo is imbalanced because you can use it with Kindle arrows, and have a better interrupt rate than you would have with Choking gaz or Incendiary arrows, and deal a great amount of damage, almost CONSTANTLY.

Practiced Stance + Choking Gas + Tiger's Fury is good too (just run Favorable winds and your arrows are fast enough). Choking gas doesn't interrupt skills however. Echo can be fun with distracting and serpents to quickly render spamcaster useless.

jpofbo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2005

Broken Order

W/R

22 Sep 2005 at 18:18 - 84

Well would ward aginst melee and ageis work at all u cast it and just stay in it tell and once they attack u hit them and move up and cast ageis and ward again
you keep doing this untill u kill them

Shinsei

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Denmark

22 Sep 2005 at 18:29 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpofbo

Well would ward aginst melee and ageis work at all u cast it and just stay in it tell and once they attack u hit them and move up and cast ageis and ward again
you keep doing this untill u kill them

Aegis works, and there's a reason why it's called ward against melee. Every team should run atleast 2x aegis's because of this build and IWAY, and the fact that it works in almost every other situation just aswell. However, even with 2 copies of aegis, a team with 5+ of these rangers can spike through it or just babysit the aegis casters with interrupts.

As soon as we pull away from the counters discussion the better.

Eonwe

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

New Jersey

Idiot Savants

23 Sep 2005 at 05:55 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drow Ingpool

Yes and we are talking about Rangers....lol You are telling me these skills own in HoH?

Its OBVIOUS to a fool how easy it is to counter these.... plz try again

Drow

Because counters exist does not mean that certain skills are necessarily balanced. People would always bring up this argument when Ether Renewal was being discussed, and I'd get a kick out of it. Here's why...

Using your logic, and for the sake of argument, let's say that tommorow Arena Net decides to add a new skill to the game. It's a necromancer skill called "Omfg wtfbbqpwned." The skill description reads "Spell. Kill target foe instantly."; and it has a 3 second cast time/20 second cool down. Now, obviously this spell could be countered with an interrupt, but would that make it balanced? Hell no.

Goonter

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 06:08 - 87

Quote:

Practiced Stance + Choking Gas + Tiger's Fury is good too

You cant run Practiced Stance with Tigers Fury. Once you start Practiced Stance your attack speed is basic because you cant use another stance.

Ive played an interupt ranger since retail. After the buff to Punishing and Savage Shot we have been a serious thorn in everyones side.
I can understand the buff to Punishing Shot. As an elite, I never touched it because I could not rely on it as an interupt.
I was surprised as hell to see Savage Shot get the same treatment.
Savage Shot maybe one of the best non-elite skills in the game now.
I like Savage Shot as a reliable interupt now.
But, to be honest, imo it needs to get toned down.
The new casting speed is perfect.
But the recharge needs to be equal to or more than its elites counterpart.
Id say make it 8 to 10 seconds.
That may not change much, but hopefully it would make timing shots more important that spamming them.

Its funny as hell that people are pissed at rangers. From my understanding this is the most nerfed classes from beta up until now and after countless threads of "rangers dont do damage, dont support the team, yadda yadda" people are upset with what rangers can do, when they can do anything at all.

Quote:

all you need Practiced Stance for is the small window right before applying choking gas. You can switch stances to say, TF, after choking gas has been put on, and the recharge will still be affected by the Practiced Stance from before.

I stand corrected.
.....but it doesnt change how I feel about what I said afterwards.

Eonwe

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

New Jersey

Idiot Savants

23 Sep 2005 at 06:13 - 88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

You cant run Practiced Stance with Tigers Fury. Once you start Practiced Stance your attack speed is basic because you cant use another stance.

You just go Practiced Stance... Choking Gas.... Tiger's Fury. Exactly the way the guy you quoted said it. It works fine.

ElderAtronach

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/Me

23 Sep 2005 at 06:18 - 89

To answer the inevitable question, all you need Practiced Stance for is the small window right before applying choking gas. You can switch stances to say, TF, after choking gas has been put on, and the recharge will still be affected by the Practiced Stance from before.

Perth68

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Sacred Blood

R/

23 Sep 2005 at 06:21 - 90

why not block the attacks with aegis or others??

rigor mortis +spike=gg and a lingering just for fun.

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 06:22 - 91

Quote:

Originally Posted by IxChel

Are you serious?

Even mesmer interrupts are not even half that good. If you are wanding
someone, for instance, and you click an interrupt -- you finish your wand
attack -- which almost always causes your interrupt to be far from .25s.
So, if you are an interrupt mesmer, you really have to forgo your wand
attack or you undermine your entire build. Are you saying that these
bow attacks don't honor the refire rate of the bow? That's a serious bug;
not a ballance issue or a nerf issue, that's an honest to goodness bug.

When a ranger clicks an interrupt skill, they should finish their current
bow attack; and the next bow attack (with it's normal, modified as it may
be, refire rate) shouldhave that "skill" replace the normal damage that
would be done. If they don't want the "delay", they should stop firing
their bow like a mesmer would stop using their wand. If it works any
other way... it's just ... broken.

That wouldnt solve the problem if the only thing they are doing is chaining the "spell like" skills that have no after cast time that would be simulated by forcing them into the bow attack sequence. I believe quick shot also reproduces this effect, as commonly ive seen the dual shot followed by quick with 3 arrows in the air at the same time (might be the other way around, judging from the damage notation, but im just working off of memory here). Cant dodge/block/evade/stray (whatever) them either due to kindle and other arrow effect buffs. The sad part is that these interupt skills hurt more than someone doing that the quickshot method.

Another thing i cant quite get my head around is concussion shot always applying the effect even if the skill isnt interupted like the text would suggest. While having arcane conodrum, migraine and concussion effect would put monk some skills into the realm of reality, it seems a bit much to allow that kind of effect stacking for any other proffesion. Stacking logic, in addition to refresh times and overal effect for many skills really do need to get looked at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Its funny as hell that people are pissed at rangers. From my understanding this is the most nerfed classes from beta up until now and after countless threads of "rangers dont do damage, dont support the team, yadda yadda" people are upset with what rangers can do, when they can do anything at all.

That would be known as mis-information ftw.

UltimaXtreme

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 06:41 - 92

this is something i would have to agree on being "overpowered".

the problem with this is u can machine gun interrupt every couple of seconds, and with 14-15 marks you do tons of damage at the same time.

Pharalon

Beta Tester

Join Date: Jan 2005

Carebear Club

23 Sep 2005 at 06:57 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

How much energy does a ranger have?
Unless you're an E/R you won't have that much.
Fireing Savage, Punishing and Distracting should take 25 energy on my calculator.

Interesting, on mine it's costing all of 7. Yours is obviously busted.

Aegis reduces the damage by about 1/3, because the preps ignore any type of evade. Besides, any counter you give to it is equally applicable (actually more so) to a standard damage bowman. Besides, it's already been pointed out that points about counters are meaningless, especially as this is an internal class balance issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

None of you so far have stated exactly why skills based on interruption should do more damage than the ranger skills devoted to damage.

Wow, up to page 4 and still not one counter to the crux of the argument here. Obviously those arguing against some form of rebalancing have such well thought out and blatantly obvious responses to the points presented that they don't even feel it's neccessary to post them.

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 07:02 - 94

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharalon

Interesting, on mine it's costing all of 7. Yours is obviously busted.

Is that with or without a zealous bowstring?

Pharalon

Beta Tester

Join Date: Jan 2005

Carebear Club

23 Sep 2005 at 07:08 - 95

Quote:

Is that with or without a zealous bowstring?

With Zealous.

Eonwe

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

New Jersey

Idiot Savants

23 Sep 2005 at 07:08 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Is that with or without a zealous bowstring?

Just do the math. I'm assuming he'd be using 14 expertise from looking at his answer.

Punishing would cost 4, savage would cost 4, distracting would cost 2. For a total of 10 energy.

3 hits = 3 energy gain

10-3 = 7

.

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 07:23 - 97

Then why not add in innate regen as wel.

Shinsei

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Denmark

23 Sep 2005 at 07:31 - 98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Then why not add in innate regen as wel.

Because the combo's under 1 second.

FrogDevourer

on a GW break until C4

Join Date: Feb 2005

In your shadow

Servants of Fortuna

23 Sep 2005 at 07:36 - 99

Cleaned up sterile rant posts again.

For those who just wake up, the topic of this thread is: "are ranger interrupts balanced or not and WHY?". Some posts in this thread gave solid proof that they may be overpowered since the latest updates. If you don't understand why, I invite you to reread the whole thread before posting.

We encourage constructive discussion, so you are much welcome to post your opinion. Just don't forget to use a *real* argument with solid backup, not the just the same old generic statements we can find in 34560 threads. Thanks.

Arguments which have been proven to be irrelevant:
- This build can be countered
- It's not (yet) abused in arena/tournament/pve or whatever
- Please don't nerf my precious ranger
- It's flavour of the month
- I don't want anything to be nerfed, the game is fine
- Rangers are weak (or it's hard to find a group without interrupts)

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 07:38 - 100

3 .5s skills end up being 1.5s as previously stated. With 2 pips of energy, i thought that would be 1e every 1.5s making the cost of the total combo slightly less, if you were to guage total use time assuming 100% uptime. In other words, time till total burnout.

Fantus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 07:57 - 101

Ok, I did post on the beginning of this thread on the "leave the Rangers alone" side, but I have to admit that some of the posts here caused me to adjust my opintion a bit. I am running an interrupt ranger in PvP. I did so long before IWAY and Frag Mesmers became popular. But the point is: I am running this build to interrupt, not to deal damage. At least I am not using interrupt skills for that. You guys are actually right that there is no reason why I should be able to deal more damage with interrupt skills than with damage skills. I wouldn't be opposed to slightly correct the interrupt skills into that direction, but PLEASE leave the interrupt capabilities of these skills alone (e.g. no longer cooldown period). Ignoring (not removing!) the preparations for the interrupting shots only actually sounds like a good idea.

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 08:06 - 102

practice stance + choking gas + tiger's fury are like... junk in the face of punishing shot + savage shot + distracting shot + serpent quickness + another preperation... that goes same to incendiary arrow... althou incendiary arrow got a bit more chance comparing to choking gas.

Pharalon

Beta Tester

Join Date: Jan 2005

Carebear Club

23 Sep 2005 at 08:50 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

I wouldn't be opposed to slightly correct the interrupt skills into that direction, but PLEASE leave the interrupt capabilities of these skills alone (e.g. no longer cooldown period).

I don't think anyone wants the interrupts themselves nerfed at all. Being an interrupt ranger is hard (much harder than interrupting with a mes), and you need the shorter cooldown on your interrupts to compensate for that fact. Personally I'd be happy if the interrupts were given an aftercast like spells have (0.75-1.75 seconds). That way you can get your interrupt off fine, but you can't break the refire rate of your bow due to the cooldown after you've used the skill.

Ereidil Glaundra

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2005

R/W

23 Sep 2005 at 10:02 - 104

why did you erase my reply? i'm never posting here again

Shinsei

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Denmark

23 Sep 2005 at 10:29 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ereidil Glaundra

why did you erase my reply? i'm never posting here again

When you post an argument that is proven irrelevant and only aids in destroying the discussion, be prepared to see your post removed. If all you can do is post irrelevant arguments in interesting discussions, maybe you leaving is a good thing.

RTSFirebat

The Humanoid Typhoon

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

23 Sep 2005 at 12:04 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Ok, I did post on the beginning of this thread on the "leave the Rangers alone" side, but I have to admit that some of the posts here caused me to adjust my opintion a bit. I am running an interrupt ranger in PvP. I did so long before IWAY and Frag Mesmers became popular. But the point is: I am running this build to interrupt, not to deal damage. At least I am not using interrupt skills for that. You guys are actually right that there is no reason why I should be able to deal more damage with interrupt skills than with damage skills. I wouldn't be opposed to slightly correct the interrupt skills into that direction, but PLEASE leave the interrupt capabilities of these skills alone (e.g. no longer cooldown period). Ignoring (not removing!) the preparations for the interrupting shots only actually sounds like a good idea.

Have to disagree, they are arrows like anyother shot, the fact you can fire them off quickly is simply a handy side effect, the "Rapid Fire Build" could make Ranger's have a chance in the hall of heros once again!

I have to say Smiting is cheap, so is IWAY, but no one cries nerf or balance about them.

Rapid Fire can be blocked by simply using blind, had a mate help me last night work on couter's, since the whole build is all about offensive and doing a much damage as fast as possible, simply put its easy to counter.

By blinding a ranger using any of the mass number of blind skills in the game not only do they waste 32 energy in trying their attack, they also are unable to fight back.

I can take a elemenalist down in 2 seconds, but that elemenalist need only blind me and that's it, the tables have turned, a couple of Air Elemenalists or two ranger's using dust traps and its all over, mesmers using Midnight signet also would do the trick.

Symbol

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 12:10 - 107

Are the monks on your team retarded enough not to bring condition removal?

kawaii_bat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Canada, Gatineau

None

Mo/R

23 Sep 2005 at 12:17 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

ah cmon people, the ranger disruption skills are in spurts, just bide your time till they finish and kick his or hers narrow butt in the cooldown period

That's what I'm talking about!

This is just a fad, when it,s time comes it'll leave and we'll all be happy

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

23 Sep 2005 at 12:26 - 109

interrupts are great on rangers. Stop requesting ridiculous tweaks when its only because you don't know how to use them or counter them... That's not what community input is about. NVM anyways. From the looks of these posts I'm just adding to the choir...

ingram.

Hanuman li Tosh

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

garden of the gods, CO

Over Powered

N/

23 Sep 2005 at 12:27 - 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akimb0

Be a ranger, interrupt back. End of "arguement."

pay attention. if the other team has 4 rangers interupting and i am expected to interupt back i also need 4 rangers on my team. thats the imbalance, not a single ranger out there terrorizing tombs like robin hood or something.

Ereidil Glaundra

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2005

R/W

23 Sep 2005 at 12:49 - 111

Before deleting a post you should read what is its content... I wasn't insulting anyone, i was just trying to say that there are a lot of people who are bad loosers, people that can´t admit that there are other players better then themselves. How can one win, if the tactics used are always the same, people grow confortable with the chosen skills, so they tend to use the same strategies over and over, it's obvious they will die a lot then... And worse of all, rangers are treated like scum ig when parties are being made, so now that they excel in something we are going to nerf them? Cya, rest assure, that i'll never set a foot here again!

Shinsei

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Denmark

23 Sep 2005 at 12:58 - 112

It seems this thread is developing a routine where scrubs come in and post the exact same arguments that were already proven to be irrelevant in this discussion, the smart people respond and actually back their point up, frog deletes all the irrelevant arguments, and then it repeats until frog checks in on this thread again.

I propose a conclusion followed by a locking of the thread.

Conclusion: The current interruption spike is slightly overpowered damage-wise, as it allows for more damage to be dealt in a shorter period of time as opposed to the ranger skills that are devoted to do damage. The fix to this would be by changing Punishing Shot, Savage Shot and Distracting Shot to ignore (not cancel) any current preperation bonuses. Interrupts are still there and as good as they currently are, however the damage isn't, which means these rangers are no longer killing people, but tactically interrupting them, as they were meant to be.

Pharalon

Beta Tester

Join Date: Jan 2005

Carebear Club

23 Sep 2005 at 13:06 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

Stop requesting ridiculous tweaks when its only because you don't know how to use them

We've run this in tombs plenty of times...

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

or counter them

The counters are obvious, as they're standard ranger counters, which of course has little bearing on the discussion here.

Why bother posting if you're just going to spout rhetoric and not address any of the issues already outlined?

Edit: Marky, did you even read the thread? ps I like the use of pike off

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

23 Sep 2005 at 13:16 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

God you people are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retarded.

And yet it is you who don't know what the thread is about.

Read shinseis summary, directly above yours.

FrogDevourer

on a GW break until C4

Join Date: Feb 2005

In your shadow

Servants of Fortuna

23 Sep 2005 at 13:42 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ereidil Glaundra

Before deleting a post you should read what is its content...

And you should pay attention and reread this thread carefully. I trust you can understand why your post was irrelevant and didn't bring anything but noise to the discussion.

@MarkyX: very poor trolling job. You do know a good troll is supposed to be subtle enough to deserve an answer, right? For the records, a bad note has been added to your profile, as per the forum rules.

Man With No Name

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Manchester, UK

W/

23 Sep 2005 at 13:49 - 116

I've been playing with Rangers for a while now

I've tried various things like:
- Fragility + Incendiary Arrows
- Conjure + Kindle + Dual Shot + QS + Tiger's
- Pure Interuption
- Echo + Debilitating Shot

When using the Punishing Shot, Savage, Distracting Shot, Kindle + Conjure combo -- my damage is on par ( if not more ) than the 2nd combination above -- whilst the interuption is strong.

Get four of these guys together and you can stop a person from even moving around the area properly since two of the three interupts target actions -- it's equivalent to an unconditional "Cry of Frustration" being constantly cast ( minus the ward effect and speech bubble >) )

Increasing the recharge times across all interupts doesn't seem viable ( we can't get to the point where interupts take longer to charge than spells :P ) so Shinsei's solution seems to be the best suggestion.

You can still disable a foe almost continually from performing any action -- just now you'll miss out on the massive damage bonus...

Tactical-Dillusions

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Grimsby, UK

R/

23 Sep 2005 at 13:59 - 117

If a team comprising of only interrupt rangers is a problem...it is not the fault of the rangers themselves, individually or as a team. It is hinting that the entire PvP concept, peoples way of thinking/countering or party formation is flawed.

When any team composed of a single class is created, they can be very effective. You all saw the flareway build i assume? That just got laughed at and people joked about nerfing flare. Is a flare group any less effective than an interrupt group? Quite the opposite some might say.

Please stop picking on the rangers (or any individual classes) because it interferes with the people who play PvE too.
I don't want to see my ranger weakened while i stroll accross the expanses and shoot my way through missions when i very rarely play PvP.

Please.

Man With No Name

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Manchester, UK

W/

23 Sep 2005 at 14:04 - 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

Please stop picking on the rangers (or any individual classes) because it interferes with the people who play PvE too.
I don't want to see my ranger weakened while i stroll accross the expanses and shoot my way through missions when i very rarely play PvP.

Please.

How do you think Arena-Net balance skills..??

Do you think they balance skills by using them against the braindead PvE mobs OR do you think they balance skills by observing how the PvP players use them..??

Using your logic Protective Bond would still be a balanced skill, completely ignoring the fact that you could reduce the energy loss per attack from 3e to 1e -- making it possible for a whole team to take 5% damage from any attack...

Dzan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

The Black Dye Cartel

23 Sep 2005 at 14:10 - 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

If a team comprising of only interrupt rangers is a problem...it is not the fault of the rangers themselves, individually or as a team. It is hinting that the entire PvP concept, peoples way of thinking/countering or party formation is flawed.

When any team composed of a single class is created, they can be very effective. You all saw the flareway build i assume? That just got laughed at and people joked about nerfing flare. Is a flare group any less effective than an interrupt group? Quite the opposite some might say.

They don't bring just rangers, the team is 3 rangers and a monk.

But anyway, this is a joke. Next thing you clowns are going to call for is nerfing Penetrating Blow and Executioner's strike because they are so good when done in an eviscerate chain with Frenzy on. Oh No! A class of characters is using their skills as intended! Stop the presses!

Akathrielah

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

23 Sep 2005 at 14:11 - 120

PvP 1st, PvE 2nd

Just look at how the skills and the game itself was balanced right out of the box, hell just look at the BWEs. This clearly is a PvP oriented game. Besides I've yet to see a Ranger bring interrupts in PvE.

A smart rebalance would merely tone the damage down on the interrupts, thats about it. This way Rangers wouldn't be able to do ~200 damage in about a second or less AND be interrupting to boot. To give a comparison, the most an elementalist can do in a single shot is 140 damage with Lightning Orb, and that costs 15 energy to boot.

As a side not if you think Rangers are underpowered you seriously have been playing another game.