What to do with Runners..

I have always disliked runners, and today I saw yet another runner who wanted 1,5k for a trip to Beacon's Perch from Ascalon. I don't want to show superfluous offence, so i just sent a n00bish reply:



Odd enough he accepted my request..


When we got to Beacon's Perch after about 30 minutes and 6 deaths (the runner, lol), he peculiary enough asked me why I didn't pay :P




Obviously I didn't pay,
Pwned

Pwned I say! Pwned, by your brain!

Hehehe, that's good stuff.

Yay for you. Why do we care, again?

Yeah, you stick it to the man you. Fight the power yo!

hey thats only some runners, no need to be stereotypical. There are a lot of good runners out there, and I'm not one of the bad ones either. I (not saying IGN) always give free droknar runs just to help those who need to get there and to have them avoid scammers. But btw, its better to post the WHOLE conversation to see whats going on.

One time I was in Beacon's Perch and a runner was advertising "Running To Droknar's Forge 3k No Noob Business". After asking him what he tmeant by "Noob Business" he again replied in all first-letter caps "wtf do you think it means noob dont bother me" then he actually put me on his ignore list, just becuased I asked him a question in a civilised manner.

Oh, here's a screenshot. The guy didn't reply in all caps, but his ad was.


But I don't really think either case is as much a problem with runners as it is with humanity.

a lot of runners, especially in the ascalon/ upper shiverpeaks region are just trying to scam you out of ur money, but there are also some out there that want to help new players out. and then there are the jack---es lol.

I agree on this, I only hate runners who take gold for it. Sry for forgetting to mention that..

All the runner said, were on the pictures. If i was to show all the unesserary text between it would have been a bit long and confusing..

This was in old ascalon as my monk (okay i got healing i know) where i noticed someone saying he runned to somewhere for 500g, so just for fun i tried to run the same distance and made it withou problems. The thing i hate most with runners is when the chat only is people saying they run to somewhere

Question: did you, or did you not have a head on your character during that run?

'cause he said you could go for free headless, but I think once you bring your head along for the run, you owe the man his money ;P

Posting names is against forum rules. You didn't "pwn" this guy, you were just childish.

i don't get why people are against runners. I know this topic has come up many times, but I'm replying because there seems to be several people here supporting him.

Running is a service, just like a taxi cab driver is. In Guild Wars, sure you can fight your way through certain areas or run through certain areas with minimal difficulty at level 20. What I don't get though, is why so many people dislike runners. As far as I can tell, they do not affect your personal gameplay in any way unless you choose to interact with them (this excludes the spamming of running services because I think we are only discussing the act of running someone somewhere, not how they advertise. If we include the chat spam, you might as well you dislike the entire idea of trading within a game. Scammers is the same deal, people will try to scam no matter what subject matter we are talking about as long as a trade of goods or services is included, so let's assume we are talking about legitimate runners) Common arguments against runners I don't understand.

1. I dislike runners because they charge money for taking people places I can get to myself.

- Ok then, get there yourself. It really is as simple as that. No one is forcing you to join the runner's party and no one is forcing you to pay his fee. If you can get there yourself, do so but there is no need to discredit runners in general. The runner is providing a service which people who can't make it themselves can use to get somewhere. This is like saying you dislike a taxi cab service. Yes you can drive yourself somewhere, but for someone who doesn't have a car, they can get around still with no adverse effect to you. To address the money issue, they are providing a service, so you are paying them for it. That'd would be similar to saying you won't pay shoe-shiners because you could do it yourself.

2. Runners get noob players to high level places.

- My main response is, so what? Guild Wars is instanced based so in a mission, a lvl 9 at the iron horse mines does not affect you one bit unless you have chosen to include him in your party. No right-minded person would include a lvl 9 for that mission, but if you do it was your choice so live with the consequences. Furthermore, these lvl 9 players are playing the game their own way. Since Guild Wars basically allows you to finish the whole game with no human interaction, these lvl 3s in Droknars Forge aren't affecting you either.

In conclusion, I basically see runners as a service that is there but in no way forces people to use it. I don't see the reasoning behind denouncing such a service, so if any of you anti-runners would like to give me reasoning, that'd be cool.

Re: #2: The noobs will get to the high level places anyway.


You runner-hater carebears need to get over yourselves and realize not everyone wants to repeat the same missions over and over again. Not everyone wants to farm newbie Griffons for months. If you don't like runners, don't use their services. Stop sounding the trumpets of flatulence because they can do something you are unable to do yourself.

Amen to ShadowNife and Bast! Well said!

I agree with all 3 above me.

You forgot about the people that get run places because they can't get there themselves. The people who have no idea how to play the game and then end up on your team in a high level place. THAT is where it starts to effect you personally. I have no problems with the people that get run places who have been through the game before (okay, maybe a slight problem. The game is different for each class you play. How are you supposed to learn to be a good healer or explore the different possibilities of a necro through gameplay when you're being run places? That's another story though).

The people I have the problem with are the ones spamming up the districts with "Running to X for Xk", leaving the people who are new to the game firmly believing that the only way to get through to that place is to be run. The desert for example. That is quite a learning curve, suddenly you take a step out of Amnoon Oasis and you're swarmed with scarabs. You continue on like you usually do but something is wrong and you die. It seems impossible. But just before you heard about people running places. Perhaps the only way to get to your target is to be run. They learn nothing, they don't learn how to effectively use their skills and proper tactics to overcome that road block and someone just runs through there for them. It doesn't show them anything. When they get to wherever you're at, it hurts your game time because they still have the same mentality they did when they were in Ascalon.

Explorable Areas don't require you to be good at the game as much as be more stubborn than the monster population. Because Explorable Areas are so bland is probably a reason why running took off so quickly in the first place.

An additional problem is that none of the PvE missions really teach you all that much about the game, either. There are going to be good-for-nothing scrubs no matter if running exists or not. They will be carried through PvE by both runners and PuGs as many missions can afford to have a member or two be mostly useless.

Wow, I couldn't have said it better myself. I think that's the major flaw with running (aside from the whole laziness part) is the fact that it gives the impression that's the way the game is meant to be played. Next time you yell at someone for being a Noob, realise how they got that way.

I would guess that charging runners never ask how many times you've played through the game...just in case I hear the lame o' rific "I've played the game through 6 times already so I deserve to be run" excuse.

I have to admit the OP's story brings a smile. Since there is so much enjoyment for the runner to run, if I had the gold I think it would be just as fun to screw them up....sorry I think it would. And I don't think there's a darned thing anyone can do...hrmmm.

Let's not forget all the begging that goes on now in Droknar's. Ppl get ran there(lowbies I am assuming) but don't have enough to buy armor & start begging ppl for cash & materials.

And I guess you guys have no problem with the twinkers in ascalon & shiverpeak arenas?

When Sorrows was first applied and i was getting my second chracter to War camp, our runner insisted on dying, then drawing on the compass to "show us the way".
He then asked for payment when WE got there - just for pointing the way.

I didn't pay neither did the others in the group.

Yes and no.

I don't like that PvE Arenas have pretty much always been FUBAR, but...

I honestly don't care a bit about PvE Arenas -because- they've always been FUBAR. Honestly, it bothers me more when people who are less than level 20 and don't have max Gear go to the PvP Random Arena than people with Elite Skills and Max Gear being in PvE Arenas. :P

oO BUFFF i see

There's a slight misconception you guys (arguing against running) have. You make it sound like everyone who gets run to Drok is level 4, then level 7 by the time they're in the desert. (Exaggeration, but not everybody who gets ran is severely under-levelled.)

Other than my first char, all my characters get ran to:

Yak's Bend. -After- completing all the Ascalon, Sanitarium, Serenity Temple, Frontier Gate, Piken Square Quests.

Beacon's Perch then Droknar's Forge. -After- completing all the Yak's Bend Quests.

Bergen Hot Springs, Beetletun, and Temple of Ages. -After- completing all the Beacon's Perch Quests, Gates of Kryta Mission, and most of Lion's Arch Quests. (Excluding Villainy of Galrath.)

Fisherman's Haven & Sanctum Cay. -After- completing the quests in BHS, Beetletun, and Toa.

Then I'll get ran to outposts in the Wilds area. I forget most of their names, but whatever. After I do all of THOSE quests, then I do the Sanctum Cay mission, and arrive in Amnoon Oasis, then to:

Elona's Reach/Thirsty River/Dunes of Despair. I do the missions mostly with henchies, but sometimes in PUGs.

Then I ascend, and do the Dragon's Lair (or whatever) with henchies and cap the 2 elites for my professions. And what do you know? I'm back in Droknar's.


My point is, not -everyone- who gets a runner to take them somewhere leeches. Do I get run to Droknar's? You're damn right I do. I don't feel like wasting money on armor in every new town I go to. Maybe you do, but I don't farm so I don't have a giant pile of gold to throw away. Also, do you even know how much experience and skills are gotten from quests ALONE? My R/N got ran from Ascalon to Grendich Courthouse, Piken Square, Serenity Temple. She's level 12 and I'll be looking for a runner to Yak's later. I know how to play my chars, and I am not even close to a hinderance to any PUGs I'm a part of, yet I get ran to a ton of places. I'm aware I'm probably the minority, but I'm not the only one.

Besides, this game is played different ways depending on what you enjoy. You don't see people crying "Why do people keep doing missions on every character? All of their LFG spam makes it hard for me to converse, and I can only ignore 10 of them!"

Get over yourselves. If you don't want a level 11 as part of your group doing the Elona Reach mission... THEN DON'T INVITE/JOIN THEM. It's also because of idiots who like to cheat runners (who think they're doing the community a favor) that I tip runners more than their asking price.

To the OP: Er... wow. I can't believe he accepted that. I've gotta try that sometime.

If the guy agrees to run you for free, you don't need to pay him. Simple as that. The OP didn't cheat anyone... the runner cheated himself.

ANet has said they have no problems with runners, or the route to Forge from Perch. The route is obviously there for that purpose. From Forge, I can get the armor to make the PvE missions quite a bit easier... which means they go quicker... which means I have to put less time into things I've already seen five times over.

That was a very well thought out post, unfortunately I think you've got it backwards- You're the one that has misconception why people dislike running.

Yes, there's nothing to stop you from being run so if it's the way you want to play that's the way it is. Being dragged through the game so you can get to the parts you want isn't my idea of fun, and I think it hurts gameplay for others. I won't go into the reasons because everyone who's against it has. Evidently people who run just don't get it.

Ah well, people are starting to complain there's not as many around and they are bored so I guess you reap what you sow.

I'm not against running at all. I had my warrior run. Why? Just to do it. But then again my ranger (who finished the game) had a lot of money and I could afford both the run and the armour.

A lot of people are in the same boat. They can afford both the run and the armour or skills when they get to Droknars. They know how to build a character and don't need to be carried through the game.

The problem is there is no small group of idiots who can't do any of that. They beg a free run, or stiff the runner. Or even if they can afford the run they can't afford anything else. They expect everyone else to outfit their character. They ask a bunch of stupid questions about what they should outfit because they haven't learned from experience what would be good for them. People, both pro and con on the run, have to admit how annoying it is when people are non-stop begging in Droknars.

Or even worse, I am leveling a new monk. I am in the early Kryta missions. I'm in the mission zone and hear this guy repeatedly asking for 125g. I hate that anyways, but as I near the merchant to sell the junk I got from the last mission, I see this warrior in Drok armour who is like level 15 asking for the money. C'mon do I have to go further?

But to the OP ~~ What you did is cold, and as KvanCetre said, childish. If he wants to try and make money this way, that's his choice. It's really not your business to harass the guy just because you don't like how he does it. It's not a TOS violation to offer the service, it is agree to the service and not pay.

iono about ne1 else, but i dont really mind runers because i never party with ppl that i dont think are good enough to do a mission and i usually have all my local adn trade chats off, but i still sumtimes ask for a run then mess it up just cuz i think its fun to see how the runner(and teh ppl gettin run) reacts...kinda of topic but oh well

I do think there is a larger group of players who are in the desert and southern shiverpeaks who haven't learned how to play their characters yet. They are impatient and don't work with a group very well. They think the 1.5k armour and skills they bought are going to make up for the fact they haven't put in the time to learn their strengths and weaknesses, or learn how to defeat a mop pack with team effort. It's usually these very people who get stuck at T-Head and blame the game and dev team.

I also don't think everyone who is run is like that. The one run I bought I had a blast on. The group was fun and we bantered the whole way. Our runner was great. Even with a horrible spawn pattern. I hunt Snake Dance with my ranger and know that sometimes the spawn clumps really really suck. Even so when he died a couple times, we rezoned and he offered us a free run. We all stuck with him, and even though he offered for free, we all paid because it was so much fun, and he was such a good guy.

I don't think it's the responsibility of the runner to be this filter. I think their responsibility lies in being professional and completing their service. What does anyone look for in a business transaction: someone who is polite, friendly and gives you what you pay for.

I think the responsibility is more on the player who buys the run to be mature enough to know how to and not to use it. I'm glad T-Head can be difficult for these people and keep them out of the Ring of Fire missions.
Do: know how to play your character and be somewhat familiar with the game.
Don't: expect everyone to carry you through, give you weapons and materials, or use this as a tool to go to Ascalon/Yaks arenas to walk over newbies trying to learn the pvp system.

I just don't think it is all as simple as, 'runs are bad' or 'runs are good'.

I hear what you are saying, and you have a very powerful argument. I totally agree that it's not as simple as good or bad. Still, I think the vast majority use it for simple expediency and nothing else.

Personally I think the end doesn't justify the means and the journey is better than the reward. I know other people have other thoughts on how they play the game and thats thier perrogative.

That being said since this is a community based game people's expediency affect other people. Whether it be a player who is immature, a player who doesn't want to take the time to make money and buys gold from gold sellers, or a player who feels it's the only way to play the game. Like I said in a previous post I don't think runners do a credential check at the door.

The game is only a few month old, whats the rush anyways....

The runs that i dont have a problem with are the ones with high prices.
If you are able to pay that price, it sorta shows that you are not new to the game.
But when im seing people run to forge for 1k each, or the 600 each if full group, this means anybody can get a run, even the people that have just picked up dropped gold, and havnt even heard of the concepts of farming and other money making outlets.
These runs i dont like so much

I totally agree.

Isn't there a rule. Goes something like don't say names. Etc...

Bah, it's always the ones who say running is stupid who already have
all their characters past forge.

When I remade my Mesmer, I had her run to forge, then war camp at level 3.
At Furnace I ground her up from 3 to 20 in one night. (Galen's/Flamewhips'
quests)

Then got a run to ToA and Sanctum and entered the desert at level 20,
still circumventing nearly 1/3 of the game.

The point is, just because someone is level 20 doesn't mean they've
been through the entire game. So what if someone wants to pay people
so they don't have to do certain parts. It's their money.

"Bah, it's always the ones who say running is stupid who already have
all their characters past forge."

No, I don't. Unlike you and many people, I'm not that lazy and I made 2 chars past Forge(and whole game, actually) and one is almost there as well, last slot being left for PvP.

Personally, I feel disgusted seeing <20 level in Shiverpeak areas, especially missions.

try to do the 3 ascension missions, sir. :P

I did try to do the 3 ascension mission, sir. :P In fact I tried them so much that I ascended with 5 different characters, my Warrior/Monk, Ranger/Necro, Necro/Monk, Monk/Mesmer, and Elementalist/Mesmer.

Elona Reach and Dunes of Despair can be easily done with henchmen.

Thirsty River can be run smoothly if your team is able to divide by 2, have even the slightest bit of patience, and can attack the same target. Just because Thirsty River is easy to sabotage by awful players doesn't mean it's hard, same as Thunderhead Keep.

totaly agree with you there, i have done the droknar run my self many times and on the odd runs i get idiots who dont pay or say they forgot there money. after the run they insult me call me a noob and such crap... tbh i think this guys just like the idiots i have run 2 droknars. i dont eaven die on the run and yet there wanting ME to run them and they call me a noob...

yet the guy above called the runner a noob which just shows what asshole there are on the net.

He didn't say they were hard. He was implying that new players can learn a lot by having to do them. Learning isn't hard, it's just learning. You say you can do Elona and Dunes with henchmen. That's great...however, your argument only works if you are implying that you are a new player (only presearing knowledge) who was just run to the desert. I am not in a position to make this assessment, but since you started your post by making sure we all knew that you had 5 ascended characters, I'll go out on a limb and say that you are not.

My statement still stands. Missions aren't much of a resource or a requirement for learning how to be good at the game or know how to play your class properly. None of the desert Missions teach you any knowledge about Guild Wars as much as require that you practice common sense.

A new player who is run to the desert can and will ascend, and he can still do so while mostly being ignorant about the game. There are still plenty of utterly awful players in the Ring of Fire. Missions aren't scrub road blocks, but only serve to be scrub speed bumps. Skill and knowledge isn't a requirement for beating the game, only persistence.

Running may make it quicker for bad players to get far in the game, but it's nothing that wouldn't happen with a little persistence and being carried through the game by Pick up Groups. So no, I don't think Missions are good at teaching people how to be good at Guild Wars, not at all. That's mostly up to the player wanting to learn.