Guild Wars Update - Nov 10 and Nov 11

Actually you don't. As that's exactly what he/she was trying to get across

ok this is the last thing im gonna say for the night..errr morning... with my lower lvl character thumper i went from beacons to seaborad in the last 2 days, the only time i had any "problems" with the update was when i went out with my freind (an invins monk) and he went against 8-10 griffons, they ran for balths aura then went right back to him... other than that the ele nukers i brought on all the missions didnt have ne problems... its all a matter of using what ur given, when ever they did run i can cripple.... or slow if need be... that keeps them within range for atleast a good portion of theduration... just use ur heads...u learned what u know now from somewhere... just keep that in mind guys...
and who knows maybe fisure will drop if they take out farming... well see what they give us and work with that after all its their world we just play in it! If uve ever played D&D you should know how that goes...

He/she denied that farming would drive up the demand and talked about changes on the _supply_ side to prove that argument. Unfortunately, the supply side doesn't have anything to do with that. Which is why I was laughing a bit.

Oh by the way - the whole economics in the Reagan/Thatcher era was based on the very assumption that making more Ferraris would make people buy them...

Bit my head off as if I'm the one who did the nerfing. I was saying it's their game, and they decide it wants to be different. All the discussion have been argued, from every angle by now.

I even explain That I don't support the change.
Jesus, go read my posts attacking the patch from every point of view I sould possibly think of.

Someone with a temper like yours needs medication or something, maybe a snout restraint cover.

Sit around to try and patch things up a little, get bit by a rabid dog. I'm outa here.

Thats what i consider one of the problems with this patch (part in bold).

Now enemies run away while crippled taking damage and doing none in return, its far too easy to expliot. Also while their trying to run away from the warriors when crippled they take criticals, a small difference but one regardless.

Ahh. Apologies then. I only read the part of their post in your quote which read building more ferraris won't make more people buy them. Which was in fact correct, though I didn't see the claim they made that the statement was meant to substantiate

Okay, I'm going to address Gaile's quotes that have been posted, as those are the ones I'm most interested in and are what concern me.


If the original intent of the game was to ensure that all players participated in both forms of gameplay, why make them seperate to begin with? Why not ensure the seamlessness by alternating PvE and PvP along the journey to game completion? I'm sorry, I'm not here for PvP. I play FPS games for that. Even by attempting to "upgrade" enemy AI, the skillsets will still be completely different, because of AI ...artificial intelligence will never be on par with the real deal. No matter how hard you try, you will not be able to railroad people into playing a gamestyle that they do not wish to play.

I, like some others have stated here, find offense to this statement. You are teetering mighty close to insulting your customer base. You are assuming because I find flaws in your design that I do this because I'm what? Overweight? Lazy? Redundant? Bad move on your part with that one.

Okay, acceptable. Party minimum....problem solved. I really do not understand why this is such a hard thing for Anet to figure out. Instead of toying around with the basic skills every month trying to figure out a new way to eradicate the solo farmers, in turn, angering a large amount of casual players, why not just implement it? It's a very simple solution. I can't for the life of me imagine that so many non-soloists will be so utterly disgusted that they can no longer run out the door to rezone, (they will have to use the change district button), or that they can no longer take screenshots of themselves (awww), or that they can no longer run(*coughhenchiescough*). Give me a break.

Stop tiptoeing around it because you are scared as to how many players you will actually lose. Either you accept them or you don't. Either you take your chances or leave the rest of us out of it. Honestly, I think that you want to keep some of the soloists, otherwise you wouldn't continue to make it possible to do it. You want them to bring an influx of materials, goods, and gold into the economy. You just want FEWER of them, hence change after change after change...some quit out of frustration, but some keep going.

Don't play us for a fool and keep saying that you are trying to fix the problem. It is too utterly simple to fix without going through all the nitpicking that you are.

*Slackjawed*

Wow. I thought you said It took me 2 minutes to see the problems I have. Hmmm...who's doing your testing? People playing with one hand on the mouse, the other holding their pizza, and their eyes on the television?

***Edit: And for the record, I have made numerous suggestions on things that could be done to help, both here and via support emails. There's no need for me to rehash them.

tested for several weeks, how could i have missed THAT ONE.

what kind of a moron tests this patch for several weeks, and dosnt spot the retarded behavior.

This just settles it for me, now i KNOW that whoever is in charge at Anet is incompetent.

You could repeat it a thousand times, it won't make it "truer". There's something called "luck" which made people to "millionaires" over night. Why people so often speak of "earning" and "affording" something in a game, a virtual environment, strikes me. Some of you should calm down in their ego-trip and start thinking in a collective way. If you seek for a replacement for your lack of RL-money (how I hate the RL-word) think about ways to improve that. Why would you waste thousands of hours of your life killing griffons, losing brain cells just to have a shiny character to show off? Sure it's upon everyone to do what they think is right but take this only as a reminder - there is more in this game than repetitive farming. Don't make it look like a tragedy - better take a break.

Loralai

I know you'll be flamed, but I wanted to say great job.
I agree wholeheartedly.

Aside from the fact I agree, even if I didn't, I do believe that one who is the players only contact with the higher ups(as he/she was described in the forum) should not talk so flippantly and brashly to the games players.
Any person in that position should take everything any player can say to her calmly into consideration and not flame(ideals, and therefore anyone who agrees with it) about things in the the game chat...Or in an open statement.
It's like holding public office, you just can't talk like that, the people will get you removed. IF GW won't post it on their front page, spokespeople should not be saying it.


The poll on this topic, and posts already well over repeated, on both sides are further back if you care to re'read all of that stuff.

I am arguing nothing but this persons approach to addressing topics of concern, and near complete lack of tact.

Well, until chapter 2 comes out expect me to be 'constructively' playing
somewhere else. (Dark Age of Camelot)

Check previous posts where people have top level characters and everything else except Fissure armour. Once you've done all that and set your sights on that armour, there is in fact nothing new whatsoever to do in the game besides repetitive solo farming for it. In fact, pratically anything I now do in game is within the bounds of what some may call repetitive. But that's the way I like it. The game was how I (and possibly the person you quoted) enjoyed playing it for my own reasons, which certainly don't need to be explained to you, Gaile or anyone else for that matter.

Just what is it with the number of people telling everyone else how to play a sodding game?

And lol yeah, everyone who has 700k of Fissure armour got it by pure luck.
Can someone please lend me a corset? I think my sides have just split.

What the hell has farming griffins got to do with RL money or lack of it???? I for one have no lack of RL money, i suppose if i wanted to i could go buy a million gold from ebay and get my fissure armour that way....but then i have better things to spend my RL money on, as i'm sure does every other person who farms griffins to get fissure armour!

Yes there is more to this game than repetitive farming, but once you have completed the game on all 4 characters, the only thing left is PvP, which a lot of people have no interest in whatsoever, or farming. I for one dont repeatedly farm griffins all day, i do it when none of my guildies are online a) as something to do & b) to get myself that much closer to fissure armour.

And to the person that stated that fissure armour is only for hardcore gamers....i have 1300 hrs over 6 months, 9 sets of 15k armour over 4 characters and i have completed the game....why shouldnt i be able to have fissure armour if i decide to aim for it, just like anyone else that decided they wanted it when they 1st saw someone wearing it??

At the end of the day I just to have fun with my games. That is all. While I'm willing to see what ANet comes up with, I'm still concerned with their approach a bit. Like I said earlier, if they're going to pander the hardcore crowd who likes their challenges to border on the side of machoistic difficulty levels and tediousness please let me know. The official word hasn't been too encouraging, to be honest, with references to the game design and a not too kind attitude towards casual gamers.

I'll still wait and see for the upcoming changes, because I liked the game, and it has given me quite a bit of entertainment so far. I hope that will continue in the future. Here's hoping!

This would be nice (seriously, no sarcasm). PvE side of the game would be finally challenging. And players would eventually use this experience when they start with PvP.
In my opinion game called Guild Wars is mainly PvP oriented, therefore it expects the majority of players to play PvP.

Maagus, i wasn't implying that it would be a good thing, since i have mainly been sat on the fence about the update.

I'm not bashing Anet and i'm not telling the complainers to go play something else. Neutral ground for me.

That may be the case, but when the game was released the emphasis was on playing WITH other people not necessarily against other people. Why should PvE be turned into a training ground for PvP? It makes no difference anyway - most groups in HoH dont want you unless your rank 3 or above.

Now...I've always been in love with this game and have been accused to be a fanboy several times on these boards. Needless to say, I don't give a hoot about it. That said, for the first time I totally disagree with what Anet has done. The update is garbage, it definitely ruins the PvE experience...and the monsters running away everytime you nuke are indeed a ridiculous thing to see.

I see nothing bad in honest farming: people invest time on that in order to acquire more plats and rare items. The more time you invest, the cooler your character will look. It seems a fair trade to me.

With some people leaving because of school, university, work and such, and with some other people quitting the game to play something else (which is natural, with F.E.A.R., Call of Duty 2, Civilization IV, Age of Empires 3, Black and White 2 and many other good products out recently), there couldn't have been a worse moment to update GW in such an idiotic way. Not to mention the loss in credibility. An horrible update (10 nov), followed by an half-baked correction that doesn't make anyone happy (11 nov).

This is bad Mrs Gray, and no PR strategies can help when 3/4 of the people in ToA and in LA are still cursing and swearing because of the AI changes.

That very well may have been the intention. However, there is very large problem there.

Let's say I open a hot dog stand. I create this superb chili sauce that I am so very proud of. My advertisements show chili dogs, hot dogs, plain and with other condiments. When people start saying, I just want a plain hot dog, I let them have it that way for a while...after all it's still income. But then I start thinking about all the money I put out on that unused (and really tasty) chili sauce that is just sitting there. So I start being sneaky...putting little bits of chili sauce in the plain hot dogs. (Because after all, I know how damn good it is...how they will really love it if they just give it a chance.)

Guess what? This not only won't work, but it will also cause me to lose my customers. No one wants things they are not interested in. Of course not everyone is against it, but not everyone likes PvP. I feel confident in going far enough out on the limb and saying that the PvE community is much, much larger than the PvP. And therein may be the problem. Maybe ANet and NCSoft see this as a failure on their part, and want to start slipping chili in our hot dog buns, until we catch on.

So now we have people who say 1.) I LOOOVE chili anyway! YAY!, 2.) This isn't half bad chili...I can handle this, 3.) Hey Could you do me a favor and just move the chili around a little bit...then maybe it won't taste so strong?, 4.) No, I don't like chili...scrape this off, 5.) Excuse this is most certainly NOT a plain hot dog, either give me a plain one or I'll go down the street to someone else who will, and finally 6.) *Throws hot dog in vendor's face, stomps off cursing*

My solution is let the customers decide...stop trying to mix them up until one fades into the other. It is nice to have the two options of PvE and PvP.

It seems like the obvious counter to mobs fleeing from aoe damage is to drop an aoe snare first. Thinking FTW!

Ahhh, yet again we see what has been happening for years. A change from the customer is ALWAYS right to what we have today.

Oh please! If you can't echo-nuke mobs which are standing still like good little n00bs then the game is broken!

Besides the whole object of the PvE campaign is to 1) Solo farm the UW/FoW, and 2) get through the PvE as quickly as possible, because everyone hates the PvE and just want it over with.

The ideal mobs are 25 lvl 28 charr bunched together like sardines in tomato sauce, and which do not attack, and which have 1 hp each at the start of the battle.

Oh, and standing still under AoE is NOT "retarded behavior", but running from an AoE spell IS! Yeah!

Haven't you been paying attention?

FFS, every time I return to this thread I get depressed at seeing what a farking bunch of whiny losers inhabit this game.

loralai
Couldn't have said it better myself

Then if it is MAINLY PvP, don't even bother to make a PvE side. Simple. I love how the PvP'ers seem to think that this game was made for them ONLY. What arrogance. PvP'ers like comparing their masculintiy with others? Fantastic, I'm quite secure in mine and don't need to. It also doesn't matter what they expected, whether it was the majority of players to be PvP or not. Never assume anything, is always a good idea to live by.

this new update still has one advantage. When running, you can use balthazar's aura to force the monsters to flee away from you. Pretty useful in certain conditions.

No, it's UAE, because you don't want to unlock all skills, you want to unlock EVERYTHING.
Secondly you're commenting on PvE. The fact that you hate PvE and want it broken is the reason you're disqualified for commenting.

No it hasn't. It's been buffed. Your braindead farming build which was based on exploiting the weak AI has been nerfed.

True, but the point is, why do you want to get into rank 3 groups ? Because they may be better then the new ones ? Wouldn´t it be better if the new ones knew how would people in PvP react on their skills and basic mechanics of tem work and therefore getting into random and blind groups wouldn´t be so frustrating ?

It is not arrogant in any way. There is huge difference between how the skills work in PvP and how they work in PvE. This gap should be in my opinion as small as possible (ie. how AI reacts in certain situations - on certain skills - should be as close to human reactions as possible)

READ MY POSTS I HAVE NEVER FARMED IN MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET IT I DON'T FARM ITS BORING. ITS BORING BORING BORING BORING. ugh. You keep assuming it but just don't get it. Its UE then since its UNLOCK EVERYTHING. Not unlock all everything which is redundant. The missions take longer which was why I was commenting as I'm a casual players wiht 45mins -1 hour and now missions take even longer and I simply don't have the time to play them.

Mesmers have one weak continuous damage AoE. This update has boosted the usefulness of mesmers a lot, because mesmers have a number of really powerful one-hit AoE's.
AFAIK mobs dont run from wells (although maybe they should)
This bug has already been fixed by update.
The only class which is seriously affected is the fire eles. The WAter ele was useless before, now is suddenly one of the more important ele classes because half the spells are snares. Earth ele is about the same as before (swings & roundabouts for them).

No. Only AoEs which does continuous damage cause mobs to flee.

You mean that you screwed up a lot more than you think. Why not go out and play the game and see for yourself what the patch does, instead of relying on the BS of annoyed solo-farmers and PvP-only'ers who don't even want to play PvE but feel like bitching about it anyway?

I really shouldn't have to tell real PvE'ers about how this update has opened opportunitys for new tactics, it should be blindingly obvious. Snare if you want to nuke - that's a hard concept apparently. Use continuous damage AoE's only if you've trapped the monsters or want the monsters to move - even harder concept. Use one-hit AoE and spiking for damage - real hard concept. Spec your team like you were going to compete in random arena - total mental meltdown, rolling on the floor screaming 'nerf! nerf! teh horrible nerf!'.

Ok, then why should there be as little difference as possible? PvE is story driven and not about comparing dick size like PvP. Why should they be even remotely similar? If they want to change AI sure, but put some real thought into it. There would be many varying degrees of intelligence. With bosses possesssing the most and the minions like Mountain Trolls possessing the least. Cause let's face it, Mountain Trolls never struck me as very bright. But that is just a small example.

I totally agree.

Hah, truly laughable.

Let me say this: Gaile, you have the unenviable job of defending this, but it's truly horrid. You say to let support know, but they just reply that we should post in the forums. Your testers apparently fell asleep for a few weeks, as the AI was ridiculously bad, and still is. It's a joke trying to make a suggestion through forums such as this one, since a valid, simple suggestion like "allow customizing of colours on the minimap for colourblind players" which would be easy to accomplish and would help a significant number of players gets buried under the tripe like "dual wielding" and the 1000s of suggestions of moronic, overpowered skills/classes and requests for nerfs. We're also restricted to posting in the threads about the patch, which means that good suggesions get buried among the whines and rants.

Here are the reasons the patch is horrid:

1) Enemies can't play like players. If they did all the Charr on a map should bunch up; the mission would be deserted until you found the huge group of Charr. Why would they split up? Why would they allow each other to die just out of aggro range? The fact is that the heroes are against impossible odds, and if the AI truly had any intelligence it would wipe us out impossibly fast. That and the fact that a small group of them should take one look at the party and scram - they shouldn't ever aggro a party in fact, as they know damn well that 2 monks and a pile of guys will outlast them, they'd hightail it back to find some healers themselves.

a) not pursuing players: This makes no sense; I think it's an attempt to restrict players from farming (dragging foes into packs) but it is illogical - a fleeing foe is a great target - why would they stop? The sentient ones should eliminate intruders anyway, not stop feet away from them because of an invisiible line, and most natural predators have huge ranges and are encouraged by flight. While some critters might realisitically stay in a smaller region (plant types, the devourers who behave like antlions/wolf spiders and prey only in a small area) the vast majority should be chasing us.

b) Fleeing AoE: Ok, a part of this is needed - it is true that they were too dumb before, but the behaviour is ludicrous. You obviously have nobody with any AI design experience. Heck, bring in some undergrad co-op students from a local cognitive science program, you get free labour that actually can find their butts with a map. You say you want them smarter? You haven't managed it - they're dumber, just a different kind of dumb. Honestly, you need decent testers and someone who can actually do AI.

If the enemies were smart we'd die. You'd meet a small pack of Charr, they'd send a runner to round up the others and play a stalling game till reinforcements came. They'd probably get involved when you slaughter them withing eyesight/earshot of each oteher. They might not stand and shooot a wall while you curse them from behind it. Maybe they'd even learn to avoid players. But the fact is that we aren't strong enough to deal with truly smart foes. So you need dumb foes, and you have to pick your flavour of dumb. The current dumb-ness is unpalatable and ludicrous - after all, they'll happily stay near a warrior dealing out massive damage, instead of kiting, while they'll flee an AoE spell? Either hurts! Getting away from a creature hitting you with an axe would seem to be a priority to me...

As to the PvP vs. PvE thing, I know I've made many suggestions about ways to either improve the links between them or to dissolve them, but they'll never be read as they get buried. If you want to chat give me a shout, but I'm completely discouraged from trying to get any ideas across. The forums may get perused by ANet, but it's incredibly inefficient.

well people you just want to get all the fancy shit like uw armor this game is not for you. Also people who are whining about the farming and all the skills problems get a life cuase you knew this was going to happen sooner or later.

finally i was playing wiht henchies and saw when they monster run away form you when the firestorm hits themt gives you monks a breather. Also, it makes
think of more of stratgey for your party instead of getting all theese nukers and blowing up random stuff.

You're farming skills & exp, aren't you. That WAS the only reason you played PvE, wasn't it.

Your kind of player is the reason I am in favor of an UAE button. You guys shouldn't have to play PvE. I don't feel this way because I care about your suffering as you get run by your guildies through the PvE campaign, but because I feel sorry for the actual PvE players who might find themselves in your PUG.

Don't assume like you always do. they still run away from ignite. Why cause I tested this after the update along with other skills. OMG throw dirt still makes them run and I believe whirling defence too. Unholy feast and more I could name. 1 hit aoe's make them run. Such as unholy feast. Its not just continous aoe's. Don't just read others posts and assume test it yourself. I did.

Makes no difference to me - i dont PvP that often, unless my guild ask me to bring my monk. So i dont want to get into rank 3+ groups...the point i was making was that players that go from PvE to PvP will struggle to learn no matter how much of a training ground they make PvE, simply because they wont get into a half decent group and will spend most of their time face down in the dirt. The way PvE was before the update already taught the basic mechanics of teamwork if you could be bothered to learn it, how many UW/ FoW groups have you been in that didnt use teamwork? but then on the other hand, how many PUGS bother with ts or vent before going into a mission? Anet can 'tweak' the AI as much as they want....it will never come close to fighting an experienced, coordinated group using ts/vent in HoH.

Same. Ignite still sends them fleeing.

Ok if anet tries to nerf getting skills and exp well I will bet that 1/2 of gw players would quit. Thats one of the pains of being a pvp player. This game is incredibly well designed for pvp yet it is underused. Because of the need to use an rpg character to unlock skills. Stop assuming how many times do I have to say it. I never argued for a UE button. Why am I such a bad pugger? Being a good pvp player is a lot harder than being a great pve player. I know what to do if we aggro too many. I know when to heal how to aggro. Faction is still slow to earn which if you would like to argue start a thread and I'll do it anytime.

/bow

perfect, I'd say Anet should hire you, but you obviously wouldn't fit in

Nope still bugged, which ive seen for myself.

EXACTLY, now you can take advantage of the dumb AI in new and stupid ways.

SNARE THEM then use an AOE spell, and watch them crawl of doing nothing and doing no damage.

Before they would at least hit back.

that is not an improvment

(EDIT, if you did solo farm you would see just how TRULY stupid it is now, for exapample).

I attack the trolls, once all 10 are on me i hit balths aura, now half of them run away then back then away then back.

2 of them stood RIGHT NEXT to me inside the AOE DOING NOTHING.

bugged bugged bugged