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Originally Posted by jibikao
Improving Monster's AI is just a "start". I am sure they'll make more changes later. Don't quit so soon yet.
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Yeah it was a knee jerk reaction - the next day and update seems to be a LOT better. It's very frustrating tho to log so many hours, pick-up a second copy, and then the world is changed with no prelude.
And for me its one thing, but for getting the wife onboard just trying to learn how to play (on a laptop with it's touch-pad no less, yikes) and show her how classes can work together, well you can just imagine my love of the W/E build at that moment
A patch next day does show some real dedication.
My only objection here is that there was no warning of such a base level change, and honestly, who's trying these changes prior? I did minutes of playing and knew we were in huge trouble with the first patch. Similiarly minutes of play showed the improvement the next one brought.
I have no problems with mobs not sunning themselves under a firestorm for the whole duration, it's a bit too extreme of a way to get a tan. But quiet frankly mobs detecting 3/4 casting time AoE and running from a player before it even gets off, and even exiting its range - sorry but I don't see many/any REAL players doing that. And the impact has to be noted, such treatement KILLS point blank AoE, and makes target AoE (yes even one-offs) single target. I'll probably do more testing but as it stands its much much better.
So where I signed the petition day one to repeal the patch, I'd probably take my name off it with the last patch (if I could see how too). Mind you I wouldn't go as far to sign the opposing petition, I'd have to do a little more digging. Why am I not sold?
Any change - even the less drastic second patch - has consequences.
LavaFont, Symbol of Wrath might be more dual role, some damage but almost more defensive for one swarmed. Certain cheap repeating AoE may become a zone of melee protection for a time being. 'Travelling' AoE gets more interesting. Adding any kinds of slow into the mix.. you get my drift.
And of course AI is subjective. Those Charr warriors can kill my monk, or they can run from my symbol of wrath and allow me to catch up my hps. Hmm, what was the better thing to do? Players would have killed the monk.
PvP - I'm sure you could treat AI and hench there differently, separate from PvE, no? If you're engine can't handle that I'd be surprised - ie it appeared Char warriors seemed to care a bit less about repeating AoE than some others. Maybe they took into account what I said above
maybe not. They still ran though.
I was even thinking, try your new AI flavors in new or restrictive zones with such a disclaimer. Why change the world, why not open up new challenges instead (at the very least as a good precursor to allowing trickle-down). Maybe for your expansion - the new threat is just a bit more on the ball.
Farmers will find a way within varying these frameworks, sometimes even more easily than believed. How I'd solve UW I-monks or farm variants?
Your rending enemies are weak in UW, how many hps? Can be one-shot?
Why so weak? Make them reasonable - not Aataxe level, but representative of their level. And/or you tweaked protective bond, why not move to tweak protective spirit or give it exceptions? There are also a couple attacks that aren't effected by it, a few mobs and/or a high-powered hit or two with this..
What I don't get are some of the decisions made. You have #s on Ether Renewal? I understand it was a bit over the top, but that was for E/MO. I hadn't done a E/MO at that point and my E/ME wasn't even using it and didn't get the buzz about it for a bit into their career. Even then it was good some places, but had its drawbacks. Maybe a little tweak was in order.
But the net result is that it's too short and weak. Why not limit the enchantments and/or
skip maintained ones? Instead, well once again it's off my rotation for consideration.
A lot revolves around Monks obviously. How about allow only highest active rune to subtract HP [and off topic, lighten the major rune hit to say 35-45hp so they get use]? They're so enchant heavy, there any well of profane users in UW, toss in some Chilibains in #s (good old jades of the deserts), enchanters that make you pay for having them on while removing, even nature renewals here and there to slow 'em down, signet slowers/make them cost energy, mobs that knock stances off when they see em - that might be tougher on legit groups tho too - or just all those neat attacks that do more damage with a stance on (you have savage slash for spell - good).
Smite smite smite.. ah the beauty of a whole line that sinks through armor like butter. Maybe that's a bit intense? The only elemental choice is an exhausting single nuke. Necros and Enchanters have some options obviously, but nothing quite like smite and of course it does extra in UW/to some mobs.
Again you've felt free to hit Lightning (ah chain lightning I knew ye well), why not a little re-balancing here? I think monks should be able to remove their own conditions a bit better, meanwhile they can damage like nobodys business. I play with my wife's warrior and refrain from letting loose half the time as I'm almost embarrased at how much damage I do and I'm keeping us all alive to boot. I don't think it'd be bad to even that out some.
You may have smite as a hook for those who'd avoid monk/everyone wants a monk, but then maybe more creative ways (expansion?) to open up -some- basic healing opportunities to other classes might be called for, not just limiting to self heal. IE what if the mesmer had an illusion of weakness they could pass on. Or Elementals pass on something like Aura of Restoration. Or Warriors have a heal signet to help others in a pinch still with their armor drop? It'd allow some freedom for groups needing/wanting 1-2-3 monks.
How far does the rabbit hole go right? Why can't mesmers, master of energy, help others regen nearly as well as necros? Maybe let them pass on channeling or other options? What if an elementalist could pass on conjure? But then are these thing bad, just make use of your second class for your combination? But it does point something out that Mo/?
is the farmer, I don't believe anything else has been as successful nor needed so little else. [except maybe Bonnettis]
Anyways I know part of my (and maybe many peoples) frustation is there is no GW email, direct contact, suggestion forum on THAT site, etc. It's just 'boy I hope they read this, mine is on page 28...' but since I saw Gaile refer to the 'chicken without a head' in hers maybe it did get read
Maybe there's a test arena, I'd love to be part of it.
I know other MMOs have had 'em.. this is something that would have been less painful if first in such an arena, yes even publically, the app just points to another bed of servers [much smaller obviously] and let us get out and check it out. Let us post somewhere our response. Here we would have been catching the bugs that got through as well as feedback on the results.
Maybe you do that with your PvP guys. Well maybe that was the biggest disconnect. A lot of us play the PvE, and there is a danger of trampeling on that. You made it a LONG haul to ready for PvP with tons of unlocks, particularly if you want the best choices and variety/flexibility. I'm there for my key classes but find keeping regulars around to do so almost impossible, so I'm back to almost exclusively playing PvE with friends. Keep that experience in mind too with everything you do, it's a big part of pie.
PvP skills are often tweaked separately, and rarely has PvE mobs/AI/henchmen been a part of the puzzle. Where it is there is often rebalancing and tuning involved - for example my Enchanter lost the ability to charm PvP enemies in EQ. VERY disappointing but there was abuse, indeed my enchanter would pretty much go after other enchanters when they'd be running players into the guards doing fun things back to them like drowning them in the water until they fixed that. But I digress.
I'd say don't be afraid to at least go after the farming arena. If you don't want solo monks in UW you can stop it. Protective Spirit is the lynch-pin like Protective Bond was - that build is % damage. Any % damage that can stay on will get past it. Either a little more work on the UW line-up or a reasonable change to that spell is probably a good idea. And I'd rather see you address this or smite or that combination instead of having mobs run back and forth, like, you guessed it, a chicken with its head cut-off.
CKaz
