Guild Wars Update - Nov 10 and Nov 11

I just read the comments by Gaile Gray, and I am SURPRISED.

ANet never inteded for PvE to be different from PvP? They are trying to make PvE and PvP so alike that they be considered ONE GAME instead of TWO? Um... WHY???

I LOVE the idea of having these 2 worlds - one against humans, one against baddies. I LOVE the idea of needing different strategies for each one... so WHY would you want to take one of them away? It makes no sense.

As far as the recent patches go, I'm all FOR 'em (although they do need to be tweaked so that some spells aren't completely useless), but I LIKE the challenge! I changed my heavy-damage Elemental builds to compensate, paid more attention to teamwork, and made it through the desert trials and ascension just fine (adaptation gives a sense of acomplishment people, give it a try)... but I still think making PvE == PvP is a HUGE mistake. Yes, the monsters should be smarter, it's a welcomed challenge, but don't waste your time trying to bridge the gap between PvE and PvP... leave those two DIFFERENT experiences that require different strategies and different builds... after all, what's the point of having access to hundreds of spells if the same builds / strategies work ALL the time? Just like these patches have forced serious gamers to look at skills they NEVER used before ("serious gamers" being those whom haven't quit the game just because they can't farm griffons anymore), having two different environments gives us the opportunity to develope different solutions to different problems.

IMHO
- imediate problem - AoE DoT spells (i.e. fire storm) are useless.
- long term problem - PvE should NOT be the same as PvP.

I love the game, I love the new challenges (smarter baddies), I love having PvE and PvP seperate.

Thanks for reading this.

I have to say this update is ugly and the henchies are worse than befre especially Orion.

After trying this out for a few days, solo and with teammates, I've concluded that GW is still in beta, and still one of the best game purchases I have ever made (and that's saying a lot).

It's obvious that it needs a great deal of work, but we'll keep playing. My thoughts are that they are trying to get some things worked out before the expansion is released.

i am shocked at how much this patch has ruined GW for me. just plain shocked.

this patch (as has already been said by so many others) has basically made several skills worthless. firestorm can just be removed from the game altogether, since it is now useless in pve (it already is pretty much in pvp).

any smiting skills w/duration are shot. since many dont use them in pvp, you can basically just remove them from the game altogether.

i don't farm, and i don't pvp. i just like playing pve. now, i think its time for a break. i have played this game for hundreds of hours, and was eagerly anticipating the expansion. no longer.

over the months i've played, i never, NEVER felt that any of the changes made RUINED the game. i actually liked most of them. no i'm just appalled. its over. no more GW.

AH. just play a bit. i got used to it after they tweaked a bit more on Nov. 11.

Since, AI no longer acts like headless chickens (most of the time), AoE isnt alltogether useless anymore, just must be more carefully casted, and used best in conjuction with a snare.

I was also so pissed when the Nov.10 patch came. Now that i been playing and getting a feel for the changes, they arent actually all that bad anymore. Farming, which i DO do every so often, was pretty much my only income base for things, which will now be that much harder to afford ANYTHING, but oh well, i just hope Chapter 2 does enough to change many things...

I seen that people used AoE spells when the enemies health is down by half or more. Basically people used AoE spells to finish the fight instead of starting it. Is that a bad idea to do as a nuking elementlist like myself?

If you think that patched PvE AI (with or without further tweaking) will ever approach the actual PvP experience, you've never played actual PvP. (That's not to say that one or the other is better, though I have my own bias.)

Actual human players will always be "the most dangerous game" and far more capable of coordinated action than monster bots, with the bots being given improved reaction times and higher stats and numbers to compensate.

The "pretty much in PvP" part is the only phrase in this paragraph that is accurate.

really? care to explain the inaccuracy?

i realize now that i missed several other skills that were totally destroyed, like chaos storm for example. feel free to clue me in.

I use firestorm, and to a greater degree its watery cousin Maelstrom a LOT in PVP.

It's made a major difference in a large number of fights.

Not being able to use AoE skills in the exact same manner you used them a week ago does NOT equate to them being "worthless" and "useless" and "totally destroyed." How? Use a little imagination.

If you think about it...some AoE spells can even be used to save certain allies or protect them...what if 3 Ettins are ganging up on your monk? Using Glyph of Sacrifice and Meteor Shower/Firestorm can let the monk retreat.

I'm not saying spells like those should necessarily have to be used like that...but it is an example of new ways to use old skills...I for one like it!

No those skills not destroyed, but they are rendered so ineffective that it is not worth their casting cost, time, and recharge. For example, I used Firestorm today in conjunction with a water ele, now instead of the abysmal 3 hits, I got 6...around the same damage as a phoenix/fireball, now who will choose those skills over fireball and other one hit aoe, especially since you NEED support from snare to do anything?

Then there are those skill that are specifically made for stationary targets, like maelstrom and chaos storm, and those are really destroyed. Then there are the point blank duration aoe like symbol of wrath, and lava font, which already have pathetic durations, and this update shortens their duration even more that its not worth putting on the skill bar.

If their only purpose is to scare monsters away...I seriously doubt anyone would waste spots on their bar for them, when they can bring other much effective solutions

Ok I have something else to say.

Instead of nerfing everything how about that 15k tormenter armor. I mean lets focus on the important issues at hand. It's the only one left. How about it Anet?

I created a Snarer Build http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=80081
One of the Guys 1. Got a better build then me 2. CAme up with a good combo. Have a look.

I am truly amazed at the sudden turn the game just took, over 20 of my guild members have left the game and stated on our guild forums that they are sick of the game and the constant nerfing. This is truly discouraging, but is probably happening elsewhere in the game also with other guilds. One walk through Lions Arch and it's a virtual ghost town now.

Is there anyway to get a statistic on pre-patch population and current day? It would be interesting to see the drop %. I can truly say my guild is at 25% of what it was before.

drop percentage is actually closer to 30% of virtually everybody. Earlier today Lion's arch had four districts. Ascalon had 2. Droknar's forge had 3.

... Can we say "dead"?

Most people have left for World of Warcraft by now. I supect some of them will come back. Most might not.

(edited for content)

i think most people will come back , maybe just on Christmas event ... but dont forget the game will start selling in taiwn and japan in 2006 ...

Let me start by elaborating on the title. I am 2 months young to GW. I have logged 750 hours (and 23 min.) Have 4 working and one deleted charcter. So while I am no where near as seasoned as most of you I did not buy the game this afternoon. Here now are my questions.

1) How do you make one game both PvE and PvP and please everyone.

2) Why oh why can I have 4 (woohoo) charcters and a storage that can only hold 20 items. Is there a reason that anet can not add a "Guild" storage maybe?

3) And now for the Update. First time I logged on after the update my response to bitching mates was, "hey lets be the first to figure this out and capatlize. After 2 days of rewardless attempts to justify my optimism. I have to ask What the Hell was Anet thinking? Was this update put together over a beer on Friday afternoon? Did anyone think to tell the Henches about it. I have tried PvP and it is not for me, but I enjoy questing with guild mates and most of all Grabing a henche and just seeing what is out there. As of now i find myself grounded. I have been unable to put together a 2 or 3 man team for "sightseeing" because none of them can do any damage, and that damn elementalist gets us all killed. There must be a better way to stop the bots other than punishing the rest of us. Please Anet try try try again.

I look forward to everyone's "kind and positive" feedback. If you just want to slam the post please just go kill some Tengu... Its my first attempt.

P.S anyone have feelings they would like to share about WoW. I bought it today but have not opened yet. Looking for something to enjoy, not tick me off?

To answer your first question..which I think is how can you play PvE and PvP on the same character? As you get farther into the game various arenas will become open to you (Lion's Arch, Yak's Bend, Ascalon etc..) You can just go to those arenas and do a little PvP. Or you can make a PvP only character on your account that starts at level 20 and go to the 3 major PvP arenas.

2nd.....I think ANet has plans to put in new guild features and I dont think they're that far off. One of them being a guild storage. The storage right now is alittle small..just gotta get used to managing your stuff.

Also, I was just wondering if an estimated release date for Chapter 2 was out? To be honest...I'm hoping GW receives a good overhaul. The game needs to be more spread out..and not in length.I mean that items should have much larger variations in damage and mods. Making damage ranges and more diverse mods will really make the game more rewarding. And..I know its been discussed even beyond death..but hopefully a raise in the level cap will come along 2nd chapter...just my thoughts..

If you're measuring the utility of a skill solely by how much damage it does, then yes, the AoE spells aren't the same as they used to be. The problem there is not with the spells themselves, but with your TACTICS in using them, because the monsters have adapted. If your strategy is based on the enemies being dumber than a bag of hammers and blindly sucking up damage like sponges, it deserves to be destroyed.

Fire Storm et al., before: Rains damage over an area for 10 seconds.
Fire Storm et al., after: Rains damage over an area for 10 seconds AND tends to repel enemies from that area.

That's not less utility, that's MORE. You're forcing enemy movement and can use that to your advantage.

For example, I call:
* I'm using Maelstrom on Bortak Bonesmelter!
to let my teammates know what I'm doing. As it's casting, my Ranger buddy zings Bortak with Crippling Shot. Zing! He's Crippled, just as the ice drops and he starts taking damage.

Limp, limp, limp. Bortak tries to get out of the range, taking damage all the while. Know what else he's not doing while he's trying to move? Attacking or casting spells.

Ranger buddy says "Hello there, moving enemy," and fires a Hunter's Shot. Zing! Now he's Crippled _and_ Bleeding and still eating the Maelstrom.

Warrior buddy, who's been standing there beating on Bortak, says "Hello there, fleeing enemy" and uses Bull's Strike. Whack! Extra damage + knockdown. Now he's Crippled, Bleeding, knocked down, wounded AND still eating the remainder of the Maelstrom.

Likewise for Lava Font.
Before: Does damage in the casting location for 5 seconds.
After: Does damage in the casting location and tends to repel enemies from that location for 5 seconds.

If I'm an Ele with melee enemies pounding on me and I want a breather, I cast Lava Font. They run one way, I run the other, and aggro is broken, or at least delayed long enough for me to start casting something else or looking for a Warrior to intercept them. If I'm a Monk in the same situation, hey, look over there -- Orion just cast a Fire Storm! I'll run through it and have a pretty good chance that my attackers won't follow me through.

Or you could sit around and grind your teeth over the fact that Fire Storm doesn't hit for all ten seconds any more without help.

the solution to the monster scatter..IS....use a slow spell.




















than huddle and body block the monsters.

Well done, have a cookie.

Of course as ive been saying, this means the monsters will now slowly walk away whilst under an AOE spell taking and not dealing damage.

good improvement.

I haven't chimed in since about page 17, but I played for a few hours last night and I have a comment or two.

The enemies definitely don't run from just AoE spells. To me, it seems more like they're running once they take a certain amount or percentage of damage. This can go from the mildly annoying to the "Hey, it's been an hour and this Mursaat Monk boss is still alive!" The monsters are sneakier, too. They'll run just enough in little bursts to lure me into aggro range of all their friends. Solution? Cut off avenues of retreat, or force monsters to retreat into your teammates. OMG battle tactics!

This whole "breaking aggro" annoyance isn't as big a deal to me, I guess, since I don't belong to the school of "OMG 2 W/Mo 3 NUKE 2 Monk" and I don't rely on enemies staying put for 3 minutes while they die. If I want an enemy to stay put I'll knock it down. If it runs off, it'll be back soon and I'll just re-engage.

Bonus Comment: I hate Ether Seals. That is all.

well, i made it to about page 21 of this lot befor my eyes went, and then went in game to see if it was true.

i remember someone asking, 'how does this affect a pre searing fire elemental?'
well, i tried, and so far...nothing ran. i rained fire on them and they just got agressive. never moved a singe step.....
i tried some of the smiteing prayer skills in post sear and so far...none of the critters ran ether 0.o
now i admit, i was probably using the wrong smite skills, but i heard you lot say that firestorm made stuff run, but so far, unles its exclusive to post searing....(and i cant check that, since i have no assended char to swap secondary to elementalist and check with, and no way am i shifting my ele to post sear, since i keep her their to help newbie friends thru the start of the game and ease them into it gently)

i havent seen these fleeing monsters, nor the bug-sprey spell.....maybe its just me...(doubts it, considering the 70+pages of agro, whine, complaint and constructive crit of the patch)

Some various replies to the above posts. First off I have 8 level 20 characters of every type. I do a lot of group farming around War Camp under the name Katie Kimono (Mo). It was impossible to do a 5 man run after the Thursday update, but now is very doable with 5 people after the Friday update.

1.) You cannot help out a trapped monk with firestorm or meteor shower. It takes too long to cast. I bring symbol of wrath to protect myself. It is immediate and only costs 5. It is now a great defensive spell. I don't even put any points in smite.

2.) You can't use a slow spell followed by metor shower/firestorm very effectively. It takes too long to cast the AoE spell....and remember on a boss the slow spell is halved.

3.) Save the bosses for last, surround them, and then nuke the crap out of them.

4.) Several fire skills still work...think burn them over time. Meteor shower is also still effective, since the Friday update, but creatures still flee firestorm and maelstrom almost immediately!

*of course if you are with guildies, you can cooridnate the slow and nuke spells to occur on top of each other...or slow and maelstrom for the bosses.

i think the problem is the beta testers themselves.

how many of them have so much experience that what will have us screaming in frustration is nothing more than an interesting strategy problem for them?

an interesting challenge perhaps?

what do YOU think?

I think that we can expect a lot more updates and adjustments before the expansion. Better get used to it. I think they'll get it right in the long run. Just hope the long run doesn't run too many people off.

I think that this is the problem that we are going to run into. I for one have noticed a very big drop in attendance with our guild. We usually run really active with around 20-30 people on throughout the day. Since the latest update I would say we are down to around 5. Seriously. It has gotten that bad. Not only in my guild, but I run with Xfire because I have different friends that I chat with that do not play GW all the time and throughout the list of friends that I have, I can see where a lot of people that usually play GW have now changed to something else. And when asked whether they will be coming back...most are completely unsure.

Now I am not saying that this affect is game wide, but I personally have seen a major decrease in gameplay. And to be honest, I have gotten to the point that I have stopped playing. But, it is not really all about the latest patch (even though I hate it completely). I was getting really bored for a while now. This latest update is the icing on the cake for me. Not sure where I stand with the game just yet. I guess I am just going to give Chapter 2 the benefit of the doubt and pick it up and hope that it refills my love for Guildwars.

This is the first time I have ever posted on here and more than likely it wont happen again anytime to soon, But I am seeing a recuring theme here and its really kind of strange to me. Im not saying im an expert or even completely knowledgable. But every other post I see complains about farming bots, or farming in general, or getting gold the right way. Whatever the heck that may be. One post that caught my eye in paticular said just become a runner that will make you money and is easier than farming!?? Ok let me get this straight you dont want me to go out work for my gold and actually kill stuff WHICH IS FUN TO ME because its wrong for me to be able to kill stuff with AOE attacks BY MY Self as a monk. Ive never even been to the FOW or anything like that I like to kill undead outside of TOA and such. But apparently that is farming and hurts the economy. In all honesty the economy in GW is rather blaa anyways compared with other MMO's which i can understand because for god sakes its a free GAME. I do believe bots are bad dont get me wrong and making it harder for them is a plus but not if it hurts the people who just like to go and kill stuff and possible find some stuff. And dont think me one of those rich people who made millions doing it i have around 23k and thats the most ive ever had but you know what now because of this patch ill probably be lucky to make it above 40k anytime in the future. Comparied to other MMOs like SWG, and EQ2 farming here is nothing. You would see people camped in both those games for weeks on end trying to farm more info or just running glitched missions. All im saying is that farming isnt that big of a deal really. ya bots are getting richer BIG WOOP they sell their money on ebay to idiots. Because honestly ive never had to buy anything off a real person in this game to get what i needed which tells me that farming really isnt hurting me in the least and im a casul player. play maybe once ever 2 weeks. But hey thats jut my thoughts maybe im wrong just seems alot of complaing about nothing and a lot of fixes that really arent a big deal but again what do i know

That's exactly the point I've been trying to make. Thank you.

A level 20 monk rounding up twenty level 22-24 creatures and soloing them all in one shot?

Correct, we don't want you to do that. Logically, you shouldn't be able to.

I'm not trying to be difficult here...I'm asking a question.
Is allowing people to be run through the entire game (in some cases..and just a portion in others), to reach the end game content something that anet does want?

i've noticed the same thing...i've had several guildies say that they've been on the edge of leaving for a while now and this update has pushed them over...

ANet said in an interview that the run from Beacon's->Forge was intended. They've made it challenging, but they don't mind at all if someone wants to power level a friend or anything.

So no, ANet is not against it.

So therefore is not against Level 4 "n00b 0wn3rz" with Elite spells and Droknar's Armor in Ascalon Arena. That makes no sense to me at all.

It would not be all that difficult for them to discriminate in lower Arenas to keep such players out. It'd be a welcome thing for them to put a "You must be below this height to enter this arena" sign on them, where visiting Droknar's or having armor over 'x' or having an Elite skill would trigger it.

When you come right down to it, though, if someone wants to go to all that trouble to r0x0r n00bs in a L10 Arena... are they causing long-term damage by doing so? Anybody who really wants to PvP on even ground isn't in that arena anyway, and can generate a L20 character for Comp/Team/Tombs with a few clicks. (Well, except for me, as I have all four slots taken up by PvE. But I digress.)

Yes, they are. Just because they don't mind if you power-level does not mean they don't mind you taking advantage of others who don't do the same thing.

Way to totally jump to conclusions and be wrong.

Okay, what exactly do you think power leveling is?

A run from ascalon to droks is NOT power leveling.

Power leveling IS taking someone out and repeatedly killing monsters of much higher level in order to gain a TON of XP in a short period of time.

I had 2 power lvl tanks in CoH, and have...heard about it being done in GW. Example, taking your lvl 8 guild m8 to augury rock, letting them come on a farming run with you, and use a berserker scroll before the mob drops, getting them about 2 lvls in a 5-7 minute time span...rinse...repeat.

You said it yourself. "Power leveling IS taking someone out and repeatedly killing monsters of much higher level in order to gain a TON of XP in a short period of time."

Power leveling is NOT buying droks armor at level 7 and going back and playing in Ascalon Arena. See how ANet can support power-levelling while not supporting arena abuse?

Okay...let me see if I understand clearly.

ANet doesn't want anybody taking on level 20+ mobs solo by using their skills, but it's okay for a low level player to get a run from Ascalon --> Droks, buy the best armor in the game and collect skills along the run, and then play through the game from Ascalon or compete in a low level arena?

Isn't that hypocritical? Are these not essentially the same - people using skills (and/or equipment) to accomplish a goal that they LOGICALLY shouldn't be able to accomplish?