Equalize PvP and PvE chars.

I would have previously argued point 2 with you on shakier ground--because at that time, it really was about a difference in how much time you were willing to spend raising a PvE characters, compared with instantly making a PvP.

However, the purchase of a Tournament Edition is no longer a question of choice in how you spend you time--it is a choice in how you spend your real life dollars.

We can argue back and forth about whether time spent should be rewarded; but when what you spend your real world money on becomes a part of that choice... that's another situation entirely. I'm not sure you can defend that so easily.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~

Point 5: stripping down

That doesn't apply to me. Lyra would like to see the PvE toons stripped down in terms of inventory and such in battle... but I want to see PvP toons buffed instead. GIVE US an option to purchase for free ANY armor, weapons, runes, and mods that we have unlocked with Balthazar Faction.

In fact, I say take the weapon/armor/runes out of the character creation screen completely. Just roll-up a PvP as you would a PvE--that is, only looks and name. Then, after your character is made, go to the crafters in the Great Temple of Balthazar and get what you want. Start PvP characters with a free belt pouch and two bags with runes of holding, and let us fill up the PvP inventory as we would a PvE player's.

You can still keep your pimped up ride of a PvE, with your FoW armor and unique skins. But don't punish me for going for the straight functionality of a PvP character, by denying me access to multiple rune-armor sets or Armor+10 vs. X shields, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~

Reread point 4. My post stands.

-lower req items are meaningless to me, unless for some reason you really NEED a low attribute for the skills you are bringing (which is why personally I see no need to ever buy a req 8 item) If you only have a req 8 in swords you are doing crap for DPS, no matter if its 15^50 or 20w/hex.

-changing armor mid-battle. - I guess I see your point, my armor usually goes with my own build, not the enemies (but I guess the biggest point would be specific elemental protection, and thats really about it)

-change weapons mid battle - same thing. I dont see the need for more than two myself, its a waste of time in the heat of battle- get your (*&% straight before you go in. Having the option of 4 would be nice though, i agree, for those players that like to change weapons frequently.

- nolani wands, -50, etc etc -> get one, put it in storage, put on PvP toon. If you are running a 55 monk in HoH I hope youre my opponent. I personally think these items are too weak for pvp, unless you are Gimmicking. No reason they shouldnt add clones to the pvp screen- if anything for people who, say, run a expertise/beastmaster build with no weapon skill or magic skill
-----------------------------------------------------------

originally I was all set up to bash/flame this thread, but there are some MINOR things presented here that despite my initial opinion, DO make some sense.... IF you are running gimmicks n such. Its not an issue for me, as I rarely use my PvP slot to PvP (really just test builds).

/signed for 4 weapon choices
/signed for 2 armor choices (at least the Hats)
/signed for adding the -50hp (i guess), flame splitter, nolani wand.
/notsigned for adding req 8 weapons

or alternatively->

Put an NPC in the temple of B, so that you can change your build up (warrior or Ele being the best example) and change your weapons/armor to match.

or alternatively->
make one single pve character (gasp!) and go get those items yourself (or buy them from someone in a pve town)

/signed

I like this idea even more-> I hate having to decide so much before I even enter my name.

Its your choice irl or in game to purchase PuPs. You chose, you deal with it. Don't but put your accounts shortcomings in my lap for the sake of in-game "fairness". Ask Anet for buffs all you want. Adding PvE nerfs in the asking (OP) crosses the line.

Point 5 doesn't apply to you. It does apply to me and other players who would not want inventory locked.

You haven't had a post stand on its own merit yet Redly. I'm done with you.

Thiose, the PuPs can have. And probably will. The rest of it, including lyras idea: no.

Ok thats fine. We disagree. I feel that gamebreaking or not, its still a point that has to be addressed.

Yes you do have a choice. Thats what the game is about. But your choice shouldnt give you a disadvantage or an advantage in what should be a fair and level tournament.

And why would the lvl 5 wanna be in the low level arenas? Those places are full of twinkers with max lvl armor/weapons/elite skills and is no place for a new player to learn how to fight. He should be in the main arena where he has access to the same things.

Crazy Idea 3 says: PvE characters become PvP characters. Meaning a lvl 5 turns into a lvl 20 with 200 attributes, all the unlocked skills, weapons, weapon mods and armors available.


Yes. But those items require PVE in the first place. How can a PVP only character make money? Win HOH and sell the items from the chest. Celestial Sigil. Thats not an alternative for your average player.

I do concede that they are playing half of the game. That much is obvious. I DO NOT LIKE that people only play half of the game. Don't get it twisted. However, this is a reality. As much as I want to believe and pretend that people play both sides of the game, there are PVP-only players who HATE PvE and PVERs who HATE PVP.

I hope you dont forget: Skill balances that affect the whole game revolve around PvP balance. Those who play "half the game" affect all of it.

I dont care if they only play half the game. When im fighting them, this is the only game that matters. Just me vs my opponent. I dont want an unfair advantage. I dont want to be at a disadvantage. I dont want someone to lose because they didnt have the proper equipment because they can only have 2 weapon slots in rolling the character.

Your car would be disqualified, or rather time would be added on to your final time because of your mods, to even out your technological advantage.

Yes. I'm asking you to give up your advantage.

The same advantage that you say: "I do not state in any way that those advantages are game breaking between players, nor that the outcome of a match will ever be decided because of armor swaps"

If this advantage is not gamebreaking to you, if it doesnt affect the outcome as much as i overdramatize it to be, why are you so adamant about giving it up?

If point 5 doesn't apply to my argument and suggestions, then why did you refer me to it?

What I'm afraid I don't understand at all is... if a consumer purchases a PvP-only Tournament edition, shouldn't they have the full range of PvP abilities, including any bonuses a PvE character might have? Yes, it was their choice to purchase the PvP edition... because they wanted to only PvP. As ANet offers that as a seperate, legitmate, stand-alone T.Edition, you would infer that they would consider it a complete game.

At that point, if a PvP player lacks functionality that a PvE player has, the response shouldn't be "you chose to get the TE; if you wanted that functionality, you should have gotten a PvE/PvP version of the game."

PvP T.Edition should have the full PvP functionality that the rest of us have now. Denying them that is a design flaw that needs to be addressed. You shouldn't have to choose between a PvP version with less functionality in PvP, or a PvE game that's required to be grind'ed (ground?) through in order to achieve PvP functionality.

I think armor swapping needs to be disabled for PvP. It's ridiculous that in the middle of battle somebody can suddenly switch breastplates or shoes. Why bother trying to make Bows and everything else realistic if you're going to allow other such absurd actions in the game. Plus, armor swapping is damn annoying. You should concentrating on other things in battle.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing two things out:

1) As far is being annoying, well, you don't have to switch out if it angers you...

2) I get what you're saying about the realism of switching chest armor in battle. But, while we're on the subject, shall we talk about the ranger's infinite arrow supply... or the **Paragon's magically appearing spear?** XD

I agree with Lyra and Red.

IF Anet really believes this game is about skill, not Grind, then a revision of the current differences between PvP and PvE needs to be addressed.

If not, and PvE characters are supposed to have an advantage, then why is Anet ripping people off selling a Tourney Only package? How is that good for the future of Guild Wars?

Understand, Anet needs both PvE and PvP people in order to make money. They can't afford to lose half of their clientele in either case. So, a compromise must be made that will not piss off too many people.

just to toss in something else.

since the straight PVP who got UAS through his CC has been getting in hundreds of PVP prectice hours while the PVE is getting them the regular way............

shouldnt the PVE who spent hundreds of hours have just a tiny edge as fair compensation for all that time the PVP person was getting in practice that the PVE missed?

I'm afraid lyra_song, that the Guild Wars you seek will never be. There will forever be those that have an advantage and those that do not.

For me? The advantages I have, I don't want to surrender. I don't want to surrender them because I have them, and others don't. Others may have advantages that I don't. I will never ask them to surrender them. I will, instead, ask them where they got them.

This is the concept I accepted when I first began to PvP in this game. This is the view I held when everyone was whinning about IWAY.

I never whined about IWAY. My first post in this forum was a thread wide flame against those who were. My second was on how to BoonProt.

I consider it dishonorable to ask a man to weaken himself that I may have a better chance to defeat him. This is combat...and I'll kill you any way I can.

I don't ask anyone to surrender an edge they have found. I look for a way to dull and coutner it. Thats part of who I am. When they beat me I ask myself how they did it and adapt. When I beat them, I ask myself what I did wrong, what things I could use to beat them more soundly next time. If it takes a day, a week, a month, or a year, I tweek what works to make it work better.

Its taken a year to get my monk, necro and warrior where they are. I'm not done yet; probably never will be.

Thats how I play PvE and PvP. My PvE is geared in no small part toward the end result of PvP. The tiny tweek that makes my character just that little bit extra.

It hasn't made me uber. But its gotten me rank. Its gotten me titles. Its pushed me to better myself in-game by bettering my characters.

Tweeking my toons is how I play Guild Wars. You're asking me to give it up to play your way. I don't want to. I like the way I play this game. And if Anet takes your suggestions, I will no longer have much reason to play this game.

That is why I am so staunchly--personally--against this proposal. You're asking them to kill off one type of gamer to promote another. You're asking them to kill off me.

-lower req items are meaningless to me, unless for some reason you really NEED a low attribute for the skills you are bringing (which is why personally I see no need to ever buy a req 8 item) If you only have a req 8 in swords you are doing crap for DPS, no matter if its 15^50 or 20w/hex.

But it is, without doubt an advantage, opening this would allow more flexible builds. It's not really important, i agree, but it is, nontheless, an advantage.

-changing armor mid-battle. - I guess I see your point, my armor usually goes with my own build, not the enemies (but I guess the biggest point would be specific elemental protection, and thats really about it)

Don't only look at yourself. Changing to +10 physical versus warrior heavy teams and changing to +10 elemental is definetly a huge advantage. The list goes on, change to +hp vs spiking teams. Change to +e vs degen/hex teams.

-change weapons mid battle - same thing. I dont see the need for more than two myself, its a waste of time in the heat of battle- get your (*&% straight before you go in. Having the option of 4 would be nice though, i agree, for those players that like to change weapons frequently.

For any decent monking you need, at least 4.
1. Primary wand/sword + idol
2. negative energy set, vs. Edenial. weapon/shield
3. Positive energy set +30/-2, for emergency heals.
4. Other staffs with ect +10 al and such.

- nolani wands, -50, etc etc -> get one, put it in storage, put on PvP toon. If you are running a 55 monk in HoH I hope youre my opponent. I personally think these items are too weak for pvp, unless you are Gimmicking. No reason they shouldnt add clones to the pvp screen- if anything for people who, say, run a expertise/beastmaster build with no weapon skill or magic skill

Wrong, what if i don't have a PvE character?
You can't just say, this build is useless, don't bring it into HA anyway. Well, that is my choice, and if i want to, i should be able to WITH a PvP-toon.

So frustrating to read because 80% of this thread is filled with people with huge chips on their shoulder not really getting into the discussion at all.

So lets start with the basics:

1) Some people are completely butchering up basic logic. They come form the view point of pve vs pvp, but then want their pve time invested to count towards their pvp game........ :S So, here it is: Your pve time invested counts toward your pve advantage!! It should not affect a pvp advantage.

2) More likely, one should realize that we dont have groups of pvp'ers and pve'ers exclusively. Most people do a mix of both. The key point here is: GvG, TA, RA is emphasized as a competition between PEOPLE. And any time PEOPLE compete directly, you dont have "time based benefits". Because thats really lame. To take it to an extreme, lets pretend their is 500k armour that gives you 1000 Armour. Do you know what would happen to GvG/TA/RA? It would cease to exist. Balance is CRITICAL for any person vs person competition.

3) PvP does NOT place emphasis on roleplaying, it places emphasis on skill. And part of skill is in designing builds, and that means that unlike pvp where you can easily ammend a E/Me echo nuker into a direct damage dealer, you cant do the same in PvP because an air spiker will simply have your fireball immolater beat. That means that you consistently need to vary your character up. And its quite silly to suggest that I should have to store: 4 air wands, 4 air offhands, 4 fire wands, 4 fire offhands, 4 earth wands, 4 earth offhands etc etc etc. THat isn't an aspect of competition.. thats an aspect of.. well.. boringness.

Competition only exists on truly balanced platforms. Having any side with a clear advantage is simply lame.. it creates "time based battle". Time based battle is BAAAD. Why is it bad? Lets go back to the 500k armour battle.... You kill the community with it.

PvP chars are there to FOSTER competition! THey allow players to adapt to builds FASTER by re-rollling. They allow TA to go smoother since you can re-run w/o putting down money every time... (IE: It creates self-sufficiency pvp). HAving PVE chars have advantages dampens competition and creates "grinding". The entire idea behind every competition we have is that on game-day, players are all equal.

In hockey, we regulate the size of a goalies bads, the size of hte chest protector and curve of hte stick. IN baseball, they regulate what bat you can use, how big your glove can be. Because if people enter in unequal, competition dies off.

The people who have put in 3000 hours allraedy have an advantage - they should have accumulated superior skill in that time. There is no need to give a completey phoney weapon switch skill.

Lets remember: the "pve" side is maintaining that their time spent in PVE! should give them an advantage in PvP. They seem to forget that as a "sacrifice", PvP chars CANNOT even enter PvE.

I think it would be a complete over reaction to ban PvE chars from PvP, but with the "snobby" time spent attitudes observed in this thread, that is almost the easiest solution. ANd thats sad. Because there is an entire sect of gamers that appreciate BOTH PvE and PvP and simply want PvP chars to be as viable as PvE chars INSIDE A PvP ENVIRONMENT.

Instead, the partisan "PvE" only and "PvP" only sects with axes to grind are making non-sensical arguments about PvE time spent = PvP advantage - which complete comprimises any competition.

me :: *80% pvp 20% pve player
*using only pvp characters for pvp play (this may change soon but requires alot of work)
*using some pve equipment from my storage on pvp chars (and everyone can do it, these items are very cheap)

my opinion on this topic :: the differences apart from armor switching are very minor and i think people should stop complaining on things that are just so unimportant. Stop saying that its an unfair advantage when its sooo small.

And i totally agree with recent Minus Sign's post #171 : read_it_again

What Anet should do ::
*add reconnect option! (sorry offtopic, but THIS is the Number 1 issue that wrecks competetive matches)
*lock armor switching in combat zones
*improve the pvp character creation screen by adding ability to fill 4 weapon slots
*add the ability to edit an existing pvp character using the same interface which is used to create a new one! (thats THE main reason i'm going to use pve chars for pvp soon)
*and dont change anything else - the very minor differences dont unbalance anything and i actually like them very much

No, im asking you to change. Just like how the game changes CONSTANTLY.

If you've become so good, why are you relying on a crutch? You want the advantage that badly?

Guild Wars cannot escalate into a REAL competitive format unless it is balanced.

The game is splitting, and if Anet doesnt wrangle this imbalance, the PVP-Only versions will be at a disadvantage.

So you would fight a sick man? You would strike your sword to a man who didnt have a sword? Wheres the honor in that?

If you dont support the "weakening" then support the PVP character buff.

'If you've become so good, why are you relying on a crutch'
I like that. Heres support for that statement.
Musashi Miyomoto is one of the greatest swordsman known in history(arguably). He was undefeated. One day he took a boat ride to a duel, drunk. He had forgotten his sword, so he borrowed the boatsman's oar, killed the opponent and quietly returned home.
You speak of battle and ruthlessness, yet speak of dishonor of being weakened by another(nerfed). An honorable man knows that there are those weaker than him, against whom he needs no advantage, and a skilled man knows how to fight one, despite a handicap. Forgive me if this is slightly off-topic, but I felt it needed to be addressed.
On-topic: I don't play much pvp, so I can't see both sides of this argument clearly. Pve characters may have an advantage, and posts in this thread have shown me some examples of how(I won't repeat them here).
/signed for a reasonable solution to this problem.
/signed for helping keep pvp and pve together, rather than dividing them
Thanks Lyra for putting out your usual reasonable, well-thought out ideas.

Yes, no armor swap in game, 4 weapon slots during creation, at least.

Level the playing field. Anet is already taking steps, balancing skills, offering UAS.
If you're not going to offer a 100% level playing field between PVP and PVE chars, then don't offer the option, in the game, to create either one. That's a design flaw. Now that PVE players recognize the advantages they have in PVP, they won't want to give that up. Who can blame them though? If you found a way to exploit the competition and gain an extra edge, that wasn't against the rules, wouldn't you want to keep it?

I personally use PVE chars in PVP because of that. And I still vote for a level playing field between PVE and PVP chars in PVP competition.

Off-topic: sick, unarmed, drunk, whatever: if he's trying to kill me, yes I will fight back. I won't stand there and let a player kill me just because they believe/say that they are unequiped to the task. Neither, I might add, would Musashi Miyomoto.

You asked me a personal question. I gave you a personal answer lyra_song. If that answer does not satisfy you, it was not intended to.

It was not my argument. It was my motive.

On topic: Remember; any player can acquire the same advantages that I can. That they choose not to is their choice. If they choose to fight with sword--or oar--then they have no right to complain when I bring a crip shot ranger. If they choose to use substandard weapons then they have no right to complain when their enemy upgrades his arsenal.

The game is balanced as it can be without adding restrictions to old players in an attempt to cury favor with the new. Players who have earned an advantage through playtime should not be penalized because new players can't have that advantage without working as hard as I did. If they want those advantages, let them buy the whole game, play the whole game, and get them the way I did. I'll even help--I know I will because I have--if they ask.

I have signed off on three buffs that will assist PvP only characters as they transition to the better weapons that PvE present. If that does nto satisfy you, it was not intended to either. It was my call; what I think will be fair as players 2 chapters behind me catch up.

If they only want to PvP in a perfectly balanced environment, they should stick to FPS. This is an RPG and there will always be some grind to remain competitive.

Thats it. I'm finished here.

So you have no reasonable, justifyable cause to deny this change other than your own personal gains?

Thank you, that's exactly what it is: an exploit that probably was not factored into the original design of the game.

Minus Sign, the game must be balance above all else. I hope not all PvPers feel like you, because it really could be the end of Guild Wars if a lot of the population just quits if this is implemented.

And I believe it will be implemented sooner or later, either with Redly's suggestion of offering armor switching to PvP only toons, or with Lyra's suggestion of locking in armor at the start of the PvP match.

Either way, the current system can not last and remain fair and competitive.


PS The only advantage a PvE player should have in PvP, is that he/she looks better.

Since having a PVE character in PVP is intended and is not a design flaw, there is nothing to exploit....


Who dug this out of the thread graveyard anyhow. Give it a rest.

Hmm, an interesting idea posted in this thread.
On one hand, PVE players have to grind alot to become equal with PVP players, but on the other hand, if they grind enough, they have an advantage over full PVP players.
Nonetheless, I dont think PVE players should be penalized for what they have accomplished. A better idea would be to give PVP players more armor options.
As for giving PVE players access to all PVP skills- It is hard work for a PVE player to unlock all the skills to be competetive in PVP. But temporarly giving skills to PVE players could lead to confusion as to which skills they really have and which ones they don't.
Great ideas posted in this thread. They still have some issues, but I would like to see them implemented.

And an on topic question: In PVE there exist perfect weapons which require only lvl 8 in the weapon attribute as opposed to lvl 9 in PVP (rumors say that there are even lvl 7 perfect weapons). They also give pve'ers an advantage in PVP, so should something be done with them as well?

/notsigned

PVE players like me and many many others WORK HARD for their skills and armors and weapons. Dont touch the PVE players.
PVP players (also like me) who can make a char in a few minutes can delete it when we want and can use the same skills as any other PVE char.
However iam for the fact that PVP players should be able to change armor aswell and also more weapons available for them is okay imo.

this will be an neverending discussion between pve and pvp players. just let the game as it is. it is good as it is. some nerfs are maybe needed but the game mechanics like Anet wanted them to be should be untouched. PVE players should be allowed in PVP area and i think (not sure if its still possible) PVP players should be able to help out PVE in aspenwood or the jade thing in factions.

Anet didnt make it possible for PVE to play PVP with the char people work hard for for nothing. deal with it.

so /signed for more stuff for PVP players
/notsigned for changing the PVE players that wanna do PVP (in any way)

(PS: i know this might be said by many others but i still wanted to type it)

Yes this is true.

However...

There are many things a PVE character has access to and can do that a PVP character doesnt have access to/cannot do that i think was not anticipated for by the designers such as the armor swapping.

Well regardless of a weapon's requirements, you cannot get the full benefit of an weapon (damage wise) unless you have at least 12 in the required attribute line. so a req 7-8 isnt imbalanced vs a req 12 weapon.

IIRC offhands and shields get full benefit as long as they meet the requirement, but dont quote me on that im not too sure.

Lyra, may I suggest that you edit your original post to include the possibility for letting PvPs freely receive armor, runes, weapons, and mods from crafters in the Great Temple of Balthazar?

I say this, because this and similar ideas have been popping up very often in this thread, echoed again and again. Your method #2 of increasing weapons options isn't quite the same as what's being suggested here. Thus:

1) Nerf PvE: Lock PvE inventories in battle -- no switching. This means that, once in a battle, a PvE is limited to what a traditional PvP can do.

2) Buff PvP: Provide armor/rune/weapon/mod crafters. Make sure weapons include Armor +10 vs. X shields, and other current weapons only obtainable in PvE. Furthermore, give PvP characters a belt pouch and bags with runes of holding. This means that PvEs can keep doing what they do now; but so can a PvP load up on weapon and armor sets.

3) Lyra's Crazy Idea: Give PvE characters the attributes and options of a PvP character when in those zones.

Thanks for clarifying my point, Lyra. Armor switching, req. 8 items, basically anything a PvE can do that a PvP can't is an exploit. Why?

Because, when Anet sells a Tourney Only package, those people are screwed because they will be at a disadvantage to PvEers in PvP. And the whole grand scheme of "Skill vs. Grind" will be lost. Face it, Guild Wars needs to continue to attract new players to survive, and if they don't, then it won't matter how unbalanced you are if no one's around to play against you.

People who claim that PvEers have a right to be unbalanced are missing the whole point: it is NOT right! It's not fair to those who buy a tourney only package, or get into Guild Wars late. Like it or not, it will eventually change, I can't see any way around it.

This thread should focus on how to change it to please the most amount of people (obviously, some will never be pleased).

Allowing armor switching for PvEers and PvPers will appeal to the most, because this way the PvEers don't lose anything, and the PvPers gain. It's a win/win. You could even have 2-4 armor slots you could switch out at a moment's notice (like weapon slots), saving the hastle and time of individually switching out armor in the heat of battle.

If armor switching is to be a legitimate tactic in PvP, it's best to do it right!

(thanks to Redly for the idea)

Why are people still whining about this.. really?

So people get into GW late? Big deal. They also get the ability to BUY all the skills at once, unlock everything at once without having to buy a chapter as well. Try doing that with a pve character.

It's funny that the most of the people I see complainingg about this, are people I have seen in, for example, fort aspenwood, marching commando tank into the middle of a seige turtle, and a mass of anti warrior mesmers and then complaining about unbalance because they are 'on a pvp character'



Trust me.. it isnt the side of the game you came from and the armor that you wear that makes you suck.


If you want to start this whining convo over again about have and have nots.. petition an to get more armor choices, more weapon choices. Leave pve out of it. It's you chasing people away, if anyone, otherwise.

Really? Because we care about the game, and we want it to be fair to all who play.


So, that makes them better than a PvEer? Remember, you can do the same thing for your PvP character. Anet is obviously trying to make the game more accessable to PvP only players. Doing something about armor switching and the disparity in weapons is the next step.

That's not me.


No doubt. But do you deny that PvE players have a slight advantage over PvP only players?

I thought that's what I was doing... more armor and weapon choices for PvP only characters. I agree, nerfing PvE players will just make people upset.

Upgrading PvPers is win/win. And for those who still scream "It's not fair! I farmed 90 hours for all my armor and weapons!"

Fair point. Make these new PvP armor and weapon choices only unlockable by Faction. And remember, if you don't have a PvE character with all the bells and whistles, you can now just make a PvP character who does.

Really, I think this will help improve PvP, not hurt it!

We've repeated this already. This isnt an advantage because the PVE char has the same access AND more given enough time/money/grinding. Time spent does give you an advantage. Contrary to what Guild Wars declares itself to be. This is why it should be fixed.

The advantage is on the PVE side. The delusion is that PVE deserves, earned, or was designed to have said advantage.

Oh i know i suck in PVP. It shouldnt matter and its beside the point.

The weapon choices was part of idea 2. The armor choices is a recent edit.

I really dont like the idea of a warrior having multiple armor sets in battle though. Meh...

Re-reading the quotes from Izzy that started this thread, it doesn't sound like Anet does either.

Or they would have offered armor slots (like weapon slots), a long time ago. But, that's not to say the idea is not possible. If enough people petition Anet to want it, they might put it in.

Bottom line, though, the hardcore "PvE > PvP only" crowd needs to accept the fact that their position is not going to be supported by Anet. The recent additions to the store show that. It's not a matter of not changing things, it's a matter of how to do it.

PvEers were never supposed to have an advantage in PvP. Read the quotes from Izzy at the beginning of the thread.

Why are people still whining about this.. really?

We're discussing it, the entire purpose of forums.

So people get into GW late? Big deal. They also get the ability to BUY all the skills at once, unlock everything at once without having to buy a chapter as well. Try doing that with a pve character.

Your arguement is false. Time shouldn't be a factor. PvEing requires time.

It's funny that the most of the people I see complainingg about this, are people I have seen in, for example, fort aspenwood, marching commando tank into the middle of a seige turtle, and a mass of anti warrior mesmers and then complaining about unbalance because they are 'on a pvp character'

Personal attacks gets you no where.

Trust me.. it isnt the side of the game you came from and the armor that you wear that makes you suck.

It does have some impact, just not as much. That doesn't make it less unfiar.

If you want to start this whining convo over again about have and have nots.. petition an to get more armor choices, more weapon choices. Leave pve out of it. It's you chasing people away, if anyone, otherwise.

It's easier just to lock the inventory. In the end, the battle isn't meant to be fought in the inventory.

I'm in opposition to levelling the playing field across PvP/PvE characters. Being able to dominate the field with a character you've "raised" since level 1 is very rewarding, and is much more challenging than just clicking a few times to make an indominatible PvP character. That's boring, and any idiot can do it. It takes a real guild wars player to make a real character. If we want to use a particular elite skill in the PvP arena, then by god we go EARN it.

/signed

And with the newly announced Guild Wars PvP Edition soon to come, I see this being very likely. If they are gonna make an edition where you have NO access to PvE whatsoever, they better gotta balance it out, so that PvP chars can have 4 weapon slots, and either multiple armors, or only 1 armor set on a PvE char in PvP.

Also, your crazy idea is not so crazy after all. I have suggested it before on these very same forums.
To make all unlocked skills available for PvE chars playing in the Battle Isles.

_Zexion

Click "<<" and read from the beginning.

Then go back here and click "edit"

Erase what you wrote.

Then type "Im sorry i didnt read the thread, everything i said has been said already."

j/k

while i accept your disagreement, your explanation as to why is flawed and have been proven false already.

I sure as hell hope your being sarcastic / joking. You feel rewarded in getting a character to level 20? Congratulations. That was the easy part.

As for Elite skills, any PvPer can just buy all the Elites from Prophecies, and soon from Factions, too, from the online store. And guess what? That Elite works just the same as the one you "earned" by killing some monster.

The idea of having to "earn" the basic skills, items, and armor you need to play Guild Wars is dead. Even in PvE, Elites are sooner in the game, and (it seems to me), easier to cap. Max armor is available quickly, there are more max collector's items and greens then you can shake a stick at.

Anyway, this thread is not about skills, but about armor switching a discrepancy in weapons. I'm not even necessarily for just giving this stuff to PvPers, either. If people want PvPers to "earn" req. 8 weapons and mulitple armor with Faction, that's fine.

I just believe that at the very least, PvPers should have access to the same equipment that PvEers do. Anything less is unfair.

/Signed for #1

Lock the inventories. It shouldn't be allowed to begin with. IT seems like cheating to me.

Well, first thing i'd like to say is that the mods must be happy that this thread was dug out of the graveyard instead of having been made anew .

Now then, as far as what this whole thread is about....

I think that locking the inventories is the wrong way to go. Many PvE characters took 100's of hours to make pvp ready and more, and then to only have anet make it seem that all that hard work was for naught with the locking of inventories in pvp. Things like more weapon choices for pvp toons is something i agree there should be (as everyone before me seems to have statited ). As far as teh armour issue goes i think a better solution would be to allow pvp only chars access to multiple sets of armour, but not all free. The first set would be free of course, but latter sets u'd have to buy with Balth faction. Same would go for runes for these pieces. Since atm there is a 10k faction cap I belive that it should cost realitivly little to buy the armours. There's also a prof. changer so there would be no need to re-role a char and lose the armour unless you wanted to re-role primary prof. The same could apply for buying pvp only weapons. Perhaps if the faction cap is raised there could even be pvp 15k armours . These could have completly different skins then what you can get in pve, but would only be assecible to pvp only chars. I think if this were implemented though they would need to cost more then 10k+ faction, since anyhting less would be to easy to get. But now i'm starting to get off topic...

Anyways I think that denying the PvE chars thier advantages is the wrong way to go. This would most likely cause many of them to not wanna play pvp anymore. Making it so that pvp chars are better would seem a better route to me.

This calls for the wisdom of Vindexus. Different debate, but the line still stands.

PVE and PVP are seperate games. Due to the single fact that GW let's you create 2 types of characters.

IMO, PVE characters should be designed to go through the campaigns of GW. PVP characters should be designed to compete in the areas of competition and tournaments of GW. If you're going to allow PVE chars to be able to play PVP, then those chars shouldn't have any advantage over PVP ones.

If both options are offered why aren't they completly equal? What if players don't want to go through PVE and go straight to the competition? Are they lazy? I've actually seen PVE player's call PVP only player's that. How can you be lazy when you're playing a game? Playing a game is anything but productive. It's entertainment. Obviously Anet thought about those players, who don't want to go through PVE, and that's why it created the PVP only characters and is now offereing UAS.

So it's time to take the next step and offer no advantages between PVE and PVP characters. Anet lives up to it's reputation with GW and keeps things balanced. Well it's time to go beyond skills and items now. I don't understand the grief among those PVE players who use their characters in PVP. You still get to keep your same characters. Wouldn't you want the option to create a new PVP character, say a new class, and not have to feel like you must create a PVE char just so you can get the best character for competition?

The argument, "Well I worked for my PVE character.", is flawed. PVP players have to grind for faction. I spent many, many, hours in RA and TA just so I can get enough faction to unlock skills and weapon upgrades for PVP only characters. How is that different from playing PVE? You play your quests to unlock skills, you spend time farming for your elite weapons and items, and even more on buying 15k armor that is just for looks. You don't deserve special treatement just because you have more time to kill, to fight predictable NPC's over and over again. I emphazise this, Having a PVE character does not make you a better player than those who only play PVP.

I fail to see were this statement has anything to do with what this thread is about. This thread is about equalizing pvp and pve chars, not about individual players skills. It's been posted by people on both sides of the argument that better equipment doesn't mean that your a good player. The equipment just gives pve players a slight edge of pvp only characters in number of weapon, armour switching, blah blah (read thread for all these differences). Please dont' start the whole "Pve players are better then Pvp" ~ "NO, PvP are better then PvE" argument, as it's been kept out of this thread pretty well so far.

You were talking about the grind pve players have compared to pvp. Well, your argument is flawed as well. If your talking about unlocking all skills through pvp then yes, it's gonna take a while. If your talking about unlocking enough stuff to be pvp ready though, it's gonna take a pve player MUCH longer to get thier skills/gear then a pvp player. Perfect weapons cost money, which in turn means hours of farming so you can buy them. Same goes for armour and runes. It's actually easier now adays to make a PvE player pvp ready faster then it used to be. With the intruduction of greens and the hole all gold armours are sup runes, prices have dropped drastically. But it wasn't always like that, and many of the people that have posted in this thread i'm shure are amongst those that had to buy thier runes at higher prices, and the old greens were often crap causing them to buy perfect weapons and then buying mods for them. There is alot more grind involved for the pve player then the pvp only chars to get pvp ready. Skills also take along time in pve to unlock. You have to farm money to buy the skills, and some of the good elites are hard to get. Minly those that are aquired on the fire islands. Takes along time to get to them, even with runs. Many of the skills are out of the way and take alot of additional time to unlock.

And agian, pleases don't turn this into a flame war about are pvp or pve players better, that's not what this thread is about so lets not go there.