Wasn't the original idea of pve supposed to be that a character would play through the game on their pve character and decide then to pvp, still using that character.
Or something.
But of course, it turned out people liked the ability that they could have just one open slot and make any character they please out of it.
Technically, everyone is on an even playing field since nothing is stoping you from making a pvp-ready pve character, just your own laziness. Everyone has the option to pvp with a pve or pvp character, nothing is stopping you from doing anything, its not like your account can't make a pvp character or something.
Equalize PvP and PvE chars.
Selket
Big_L
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shadowfell
Last I checked... Pve couldn't reroll and still use their customized weapons and armors either. All of my warriors axes/swords/hammers are customized to her. It really is a requirement in a lot of guilds too. So, again, how is this an issue?
|
You stated earlier that PvP chars have inventories and are able to use any weapons and items they grab from storage. This is simply not viable as weapons you pull from storage cannot be customized to the PvP character realistically. Not to mention the amount of expensive items that would get accidentally deleted due to PvPers recreating so frequently. What does recreating a PvE character have to do with it? And whats all this about a requirement in guilds
?EDIT:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Selket
Technically, everyone is on an even playing field since nothing is stoping you from making a pvp-ready pve character, just your own laziness. Everyone has the option to pvp with a pve or pvp character, nothing is stopping you from doing anything, its not like your account can't make a pvp character or something.
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lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by shadowfell
Last I checked... Pve couldn't reroll and still use their customized weapons and armors either. All of my warriors axes/swords/hammers are customized to her. It really is a requirement in a lot of guilds too. So, again, how is this an issue?
|
To be truly competitive in PvP, you have to grind in PvE.
shadowfell: Please agree or disagree with this statement:
If you roll a PvP char with ZERO items from your PvE chars (items in storage), you can be JUST as competitive and are on an even playing field as a fully grinded PvE char.
Yes its a trap.
If you agree, you contradict yourself, because you already said that PvErs have an advantage.
If you disagree, i wanna know why you accept this and dont want to resolve it.
Dougal Kronik
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by milan
simple, prevent pve characters from entering pvp. Problem solved, want to pvp create a pvp character, want to pve, create a pve character.
|
Lock PvE characters out of the PvP arenas.
Only allow them in Alliance Battles, Jade Quarry, and Fort Aspenwood. There is your PvE characters PvP environments!
Selket
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Big_L
Of course this is true. The point is that people shouldn't feel the need to spend all the time and money building a pve character just to be competetive in pvp. Why should someone be forced to do something they hate in order to get to the game they want to play? Its not "lazy" because it should never feel like "work" to begin with.
|
If you just bought the game you have no unlocks, you are not competetive at all, you have to work for faction for unlocks or play through pve for unlocks. No matter what you're forced to do one or the other. With a pvp character you're just as competetive, the ability to switch armor doesn't affect anything - switching to vs physical armor doesn't do anything the warrior knows how to play as they will recognize the fact that their damage is lower than it should be and switch to an elemental weapon. No matter how many items you have and how leet your character can be better players still roll you no matter what. Switching headpieces doesn't matter, you'll still drop as fast as you did the first time.
JR
- Disable Inventory in PvP.
-Give PvP characters four weapon slots.
- Add the ability to select any inherant mod for weapons and offhands in the PvP creation screen, instead of selecting seperate items from a list.
I don't honestly see how this would be anything but a good thing.
-Give PvP characters four weapon slots.
- Add the ability to select any inherant mod for weapons and offhands in the PvP creation screen, instead of selecting seperate items from a list.
I don't honestly see how this would be anything but a good thing.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
This would actually solve all of your issues - except the vanity ones where you want to show off your 15k armor (which you got from playing and not grinding).
Lock PvE characters out of the PvP arenas. Only allow them in Alliance Battles, Jade Quarry, and Fort Aspenwood. There is your PvE characters PvP environments! |
-------------
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Selket
You need to spend time to be competetive.
If you just bought the game you have no unlocks, you are not competetive at all, you have to work for faction for unlocks or play through pve for unlocks. No matter what you're forced to do one or the other. With a pvp character you're just as competetive, the ability to switch armor doesn't affect anything - switching to vs physical armor doesn't do anything the warrior knows how to play as they will recognize the fact that their damage is lower than it should be and switch to an elemental weapon. No matter how many items you have and how leet your character can be better players still roll you no matter what. Switching headpieces doesn't matter, you'll still drop as fast as you did the first time. |
But you are wrong in saying that a PvP character is just as competitive. The posts here already show that a PvE character has the advantage.
A PvE can get ALL the skills (provided you grind for long enough a time -.-;; which i also attempt to resolve with crazy idea #3) and has access to a much larger and more diver weapon and armor pool, as well as a much larger inventory for carrying more swapping weapons and armor options.
In fact the arguement that I feel we are having is wether or not that advantage should stay in game or be removed.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JR-
- Add the ability to select any inherant mod for weapons and offhands in the PvP creation screen, instead of selecting seperate items from a list.
|
Tuoba Hturt Eht
[sarcasm]How bout removing PvP-only characters once and for all?
Now wouldn't that be swell?
Everyone is "equal", no more further "equalization" needed.[/sarcasm]
There are much better ideas to "equalize" PvE and PvP, locking out inventories is not one of them.
[url=http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109382]Equipment Master for PvP-only characters[/quote]
Reference Threads:
Today | bilateralrope | Lock the inventory window closed when in PvP
Equipment Masters for PvP-only characters
These various NPCs, placed at all PvP outposts, will hand out various equipments for PvP-only characters, provided that those items have been unlocked.
1. Balthazar's Armor Smith
- All types of Armor sets
2. Balthazar's Rune Keeper
- All types of Runes
3. Balthazar's Weapons Master
- Swords, Hammers, Axes
- Bows, Daggers
- All weapon Upgrades
- Shields
4. Balthazar's Archmage
- Staves, Rods
- Staves Upgrades
- Focus Items
5. Balthazar's Sage
- Change 2nd Profession
- Usable by PvE characters as well
--------------------------------------
(A few people suggested that this one is un-necessary for the PvP-only characters)
(One suggested that Balthazar's Faction can be used to "buy" dyes for PvP-only characters)
(Sir Mad does not agree with this)
6. Balthazar's Dyes Distributer
- Dyes
All retrieved equipment will be customized to the PvP character who collected them.
Discuss.
Poll:
You like the idea described above and would like to see ANET implement it.
Yes (20)
=====
Tuoba Hturt Eht, Zui, zhai, bilateralrope, Frostie Arrows, reverse_oreo, TheOneMephisto, noob4sure, B Ephekt, TheGuildWarsPenguin, Embodiment Of Gaia, Nilator, TomD22, kazz, prism2525, Tetram The Troll, Afterimage, Beat_Go_Stick, Sphinx2k, Sir Mad
No (0)
=====
Now wouldn't that be swell?
Everyone is "equal", no more further "equalization" needed.[/sarcasm]
There are much better ideas to "equalize" PvE and PvP, locking out inventories is not one of them.
[url=http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109382]Equipment Master for PvP-only characters[/quote]
Reference Threads:
Today | bilateralrope | Lock the inventory window closed when in PvP
Equipment Masters for PvP-only characters
These various NPCs, placed at all PvP outposts, will hand out various equipments for PvP-only characters, provided that those items have been unlocked.
1. Balthazar's Armor Smith
- All types of Armor sets
2. Balthazar's Rune Keeper
- All types of Runes
3. Balthazar's Weapons Master
- Swords, Hammers, Axes
- Bows, Daggers
- All weapon Upgrades
- Shields
4. Balthazar's Archmage
- Staves, Rods
- Staves Upgrades
- Focus Items
5. Balthazar's Sage
- Change 2nd Profession
- Usable by PvE characters as well
--------------------------------------
(A few people suggested that this one is un-necessary for the PvP-only characters)
(One suggested that Balthazar's Faction can be used to "buy" dyes for PvP-only characters)
(Sir Mad does not agree with this)
6. Balthazar's Dyes Distributer
- Dyes
All retrieved equipment will be customized to the PvP character who collected them.
Discuss.
Poll:
You like the idea described above and would like to see ANET implement it.
Yes (20)
=====
Tuoba Hturt Eht, Zui, zhai, bilateralrope, Frostie Arrows, reverse_oreo, TheOneMephisto, noob4sure, B Ephekt, TheGuildWarsPenguin, Embodiment Of Gaia, Nilator, TomD22, kazz, prism2525, Tetram The Troll, Afterimage, Beat_Go_Stick, Sphinx2k, Sir Mad
No (0)
=====
dreamhunk
what people are asking here is to change the meta game! gw is not a fps! from a box it is an rpg!
agin if anet does this they are moving away from what they promised what this would be.
gw is not a pvp from a box! If anet changed it would be trouble legaly
I would people from anet to take a good look this why pvp and rpg players will not get along.
this will only hurt the game!
agin if anet does this they are moving away from what they promised what this would be.
gw is not a pvp from a box! If anet changed it would be trouble legaly
I would people from anet to take a good look this why pvp and rpg players will not get along.
this will only hurt the game!
Selket
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JR-
-Give PvP characters four weapon slots.
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lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dreamhunk
what people are asking here is to change the meta game! gw is not a fps! from a box it is an rpg!
agin if anet does this they are moving away from what they promised what this would be. gw is not a pvp from a box! If anet changed it would be trouble legaly I would people from anet to take a good look this why pvp and rpg players will not get along. this will only hurt the game! |
The meta game is ALWAYS changing. Listen to WOC #40. They want the game to feel new and fresh, thats why they make some skill changes not to nerf but to shake things up a bit.
Yes GW is not a FPS. That much i agree with.
From the box it says RPG? Ok...so? What does that have to do with the PvP modes in the game? Nothing.
"moving away from what they promised". They promised RPG? Well theres an RPG in there, a mediocre one, as you would say. But it seems to me its still in there.
GW is not a PvP out of the box? You are correct, it doesnt say it on the box. So? If you dont want to PvP, then dont. As much as id love to "coax" people to PvP, i doubt that will happen anytime soon.
Trouble legally? For what? False advertisement? Theres an RPG in there. Theres PvP in there. Theres no FPS in there....
I'm pretty damn sure people from Anet are reading our posts. Izzy's responses on the WOC #40 interview DIRECTLY responded to some posts that were on this very forum, GWGuru. It shows that they are reading our ideas and rants/flames/non-sensical gibberish.
And i personally think that PvErs and PvPers can get along...to an extent. A lot of PvPers are incredibly competitive and their personalities would definitely clash with the more laid back PvErs. But any clash of personality leads to conflict, regardless of the situation, wether it be work, play, or whatever. This is a human issue, not a game issue.
Your last statement I severely disagree with. I am seeking to fix a problem. I dont see how that will ruin the game in anyway.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Selket
You already have four weapon slots.
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How many weapon slots can you activate once the character is active? Four.
Four slots. But only Two weapon sets.
I direct you to my post here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&postcount=47
Selket
Two weapon sets?
You can select four individual items, therefore there are 4 different combinations and weapon sets.
You can select four individual items, therefore there are 4 different combinations and weapon sets.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Selket
Two weapon sets?
You can select four individual items, therefore there are 4 different combinations and weapon sets. |
Ranger:
2 bows, 2 offhand items.
You have 2 offhand items but no weapon to use it with.
you could go:
1 bow, 1 staff, 2 offhand items
Now you only have 1 bow. ZERO versatility, no flexibility. And offhands arent much use without a 1 handed weapon.
My PVE ranger has at least 2 of every kind of bow (short, horn, recurve, long, flat) + a staff for trapping.
Please tell me some other way to reconcile those two types of characters so that they may have an equal opportunity in battle?
shadowfell
4 of the 8 members of the last pride were pvp characters only.. It really didn't seem that this was a major issue in their win against WM. This folks, is the top shelf of pvp and I don't think the monks armor is what won the matches for them. It was strategy and preperation.
It appeared to me, that most of WM's players were also pvp exclusive. This did not stop them from rolling all over iB in the semis. This was strategy and flawless execution of a battle plan.
If this is such an issue to all of the pvp community, why aren't top guilds, and I mean, top guilds, not the r3-r6 fame farmed halls crowd, complaining in this thread about it?
Keep your mind on what you are doing, and you won't delete an expensive item. And weapons are 'realistically' customized daily.
And yes, in some guilds, your equipment is supervised. Axes/swords/hammers, must be customized to the character for damage increase. Just like, they want to know their monks are using a 20/20 healing staff, not a 20/20 illusion staff. This is not a new practice. I see it all the time.
It appeared to me, that most of WM's players were also pvp exclusive. This did not stop them from rolling all over iB in the semis. This was strategy and flawless execution of a battle plan.
If this is such an issue to all of the pvp community, why aren't top guilds, and I mean, top guilds, not the r3-r6 fame farmed halls crowd, complaining in this thread about it?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Big_L
oO?
You stated earlier that PvP chars have inventories and are able to use any weapons and items they grab from storage. This is simply not viable as weapons you pull from storage cannot be customized to the PvP character realistically. Not to mention the amount of expensive items that would get accidentally deleted due to PvPers recreating so frequently. What does recreating a PvE character have to do with it? And whats all this about a requirement in guilds ? |
And yes, in some guilds, your equipment is supervised. Axes/swords/hammers, must be customized to the character for damage increase. Just like, they want to know their monks are using a 20/20 healing staff, not a 20/20 illusion staff. This is not a new practice. I see it all the time.
Man With No Name
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Selket
You already have four weapon slots.
|
Fear my mighty Paint (c) skills !!!11
I count two and I've marked where the other two *should* be....
I was going two write a long winded post explaining how this move is key for balance, how laugable it is that PvP characters are less that optimal for their own game mode, Skill > Time, etc. I however won't -- half of the posts in this thread are as stupid as the ones found here:
http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gwpoll3to.jpg
The thread link: http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=407354
So I'd be wasting my time explaining to a good majority of people who have no clue of the importance of balance in a game that claims to be competitive. Just out of interest how many people would've proclaimed this:
http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/show...=Fissure+Armor
As a great idea ? (note JR's sarcasm =p)
I'm sure the changes are coming but it took an aweful long time to fix the HoD helm - I doubt we'll see an update like this till September at least.
JR
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Do you mind if i add this idea to the OP?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht
There are much better ideas to "equalize" PvE and PvP, locking out inventories is not one of them.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht
....
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by dreamhunk
what people are asking here is to change the meta game! gw is not a fps! from a box it is an rpg!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Selket
Two weapon sets?
You can select four individual items, therefore there are 4 different combinations and weapon sets. |
Let's look at a monk, for example.
- You need a dual fast recharge set, wand and focus. That's one slot right there.
- You need +energy sword and general purpose focus, second slot.
- You need a +30/-2 energy set, third slot.
- You need a negative energy set, fourth slot.
Can you do that at the moment? No.
Cirian
I think these ideas are in the right direction so...
/signed!
On the PvP equipment side, perhaps there should be an NPC smith who will only deal with PvP characters. This NPC can create PvP equipment for you in the same way as the PvP character creation screen, allowing a PvP character multiple suits of runed PvP armour and upgraded PvP weapons.
That will also eliminate the time wasted re-rolling your PvP character to change your PvP gear, getting you into the action that little bit quicker.
/signed!
On the PvP equipment side, perhaps there should be an NPC smith who will only deal with PvP characters. This NPC can create PvP equipment for you in the same way as the PvP character creation screen, allowing a PvP character multiple suits of runed PvP armour and upgraded PvP weapons.
That will also eliminate the time wasted re-rolling your PvP character to change your PvP gear, getting you into the action that little bit quicker.
Ventius Hozza
I think atm to sum up, more people would be happy to comply with this if we were asking PvP characters get more options and PvE characters stay the same. That's how the thread has progressed, away from locking inventories, to opening up PvP characters more.
If that's the case, then /signed
If that's the case, then /signed
Big_L
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shadowfell
4 of the 8 members of the last pride were pvp characters only.. It really didn't seem that this was a major issue in their win against WM. This folks, is the top shelf of pvp and I don't think the monks armor is what won the matches for them. It was strategy and preperation.
It appeared to me, that most of WM's players were also pvp exclusive. This did not stop them from rolling all over iB in the semis. This was strategy and flawless execution of a battle plan. If this is such an issue to all of the pvp community, why aren't top guilds, and I mean, top guilds, not the r3-r6 fame farmed halls crowd, complaining in this thread about it? |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shadowfell
And weapons are 'realistically' customized daily.
|
@Tuoba Hturt Eht
AFAIK your ideas are just as good (although seemingly a little more complicated than necessary) when it comes to a solution for this. Your approach seems to be more "add to pvp chars" as opposed to "remove the advantage from pve chars" which looks like its getting a bigger positive response despite the fact that its essentially the same thing. I honestly dont see why PvE players would give a damn either way as it does not affect their gameplay whatsoever. Asking them to play by the same restrictions as a PvP char in order to make things fair, doesn't seem like too much to ask imo, but whatever. I'll /sign either idea.
shadowfell
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Big_L
Its already been stated and for the most part agreed on that its not a big advantage. I've used the word "slight" to describe it in this very thread. Its still an issue thats been widely discussed and recognized as in need of an adjustment. Furthermore, you dont know who I am, what guilds I've played for, or what rank I am, so lets keep the generalized assumptions out of it. I didn't call you a pve nub (and I'm still not).
For a pvp character? Where is the weapon smith in HA/TA/RA? It might be possible to customize items in the GH, but I haven't actually tried this TBH. Even if it were possible, rerolling that pvp slot would mean the weapon is useless. Are you suggesting that PvP chars should get a new weapon every time they reroll this way? There are MANY complications with your idea that PvP chars have access to just the same weapons and items that PvE characters do(not even considering armor btw). Explain to me how this is "realistic." |
As for customizing weapons, you can. And yes, realistically! And even in the private and serene surroundings of your own guild hall, both a pvp and a pve character can do this. Please prepare your statements with fact, before filling these threads with fiction if you have not determined the truth of the matter beforehand.
You are also, able to twink any item you wish, from your storage onto your pvp character. A rockmolder, a particular staff that strikes your fancy. Stop trying to imply that you cannot do these things without ease. These items are not auto customized. The only way you will lose them, is if you re-roll, and forget to remove them from the pvp characters inventory, or if you had customized the item and have now rendered it useless by re-rolling.
Talk about realism, there it all is, laid out rather nicely for you.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lyra_song
shadowfell: Please agree or disagree with this statement: If you roll a PvP char with ZERO items from your PvE chars (items in storage), you can be JUST as competitive and are on an even playing field as a fully grinded PvE char. Yes its a trap. If you agree, you contradict yourself, because you already said that PvErs have an advantage. If you disagree, i wanna know why you accept this and dont want to resolve it. |
I agree that pvp toons should be able to choose, 4 sets of complete weapons, both primary and offhand, at character creation. This is a given, and why AN never initiated something like this, I will never know. As for, making armors available to pvp only characters (purchase with faction, 10k a piece)in pvp staging areas somewhere on the battle isles, I wouldn't be against that either. This would also be something nice to do with your faction after you have maxed out on skills and upgrades.
However, for locking inventory.. still ridiculous, still not signed.
lyra_song
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shadowfell
As for customizing weapons, you can. And yes, realistically! And even in the private and serene surroundings of your own guild hall, both a pvp and a pve character can do this. Please prepare your statements with fact, before filling these threads with fiction if you have not determined the truth of the matter beforehand.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shadowfell
You are also, able to twink any item you wish, from your storage onto your pvp character. A rockmolder, a particular staff that strikes your fancy. Stop trying to imply that you cannot do these things without ease. These items are not auto customized. The only way you will lose them, is if you re-roll, and forget to remove them from the pvp characters inventory, or if you had customized the item and have now rendered it useless by re-rolling.
|
You either:
Got it as a drop. Meaning you farmed SF.
or
Bought it from another player. Theres almost no people who sell things in PvP areas. This option is difficult without a PvE char. Oh and dont forget you need money.
or
someone gave it to you. Ok..you're lucky if you it was this one.
So you have items in your storage. Good weapons you intend to use for your PvP char. How do you expect to battle without customizing it? We have a gh with a weaponsmith NPC. Ok cool so far.
Now you PvP char has enough weapons to rival a PvE character. You play this pvp char for a while and have moderate/decent success.
Thats great. Now Anet drops a new update. The meta game has changed, and suddenly you have to change your build needs tweaking. Now you need a different attribute helm/superior rune.
Thats no problem, just reroll.
But we were using some PVE items that we customized. Meaning they are worthless if we reroll, since they were customized. All the money on those perfect mods gone.
So whats the PvE-P char gonna do? He can just swap. Multiple helmets. Multiple armor sets. Multiple weapon sets. Switch attributes. Ok, all done.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by shadowfell
I neither disagree with the statement, or agree with it because I never said that, ever, not one time in any of these 5 pages. Show me a post I made where I said "pve'rs have an advantage'. If you are going to set 'traps', make sure the bait exists.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shadowfell
If they want to switch their armors mid battle. let them. If they want to open their inventory to change runes, let them. They worked their ass off for it too.
|
Selket
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JR-
That hardly allows for any flexibility at all with item selection.
Let's look at a monk, for example. - You need a dual fast recharge set, wand and focus. That's one slot right there. - You need +energy sword and general purpose focus, second slot. - You need a +30/-2 energy set, third slot. - You need a negative energy set, fourth slot. Can you do that at the moment? No. |
(+10 armor staff, +60hp set, sometimes you only want the +15 energy out of the total +30 incase of edenial, ect ect)
My real point is that if you're locking the inventory up, 4 sets is not enough because that alone only gives you JUST enough for the 4 items you're already given, I'd need something along the lines of sixteen or more (for warrior especially) weapon sets for any of my characters just to be SURE I'm completely prepared for all situations, instead of just having the 4 sets I have now and ocassionally switching things out on one or the other. Unless ANet wants to clutter the UI with more and more weapon sets, they'll keep the inventory unlocked, it doesn't require Anet to do anything.
EDIT -- I'd like to add that ANet trashed Skill > Time Spent as soon as they introduced faction and unlocks and didn't introduce some sort of UAX button or something.
Big_L
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shadowfell
As for customizing weapons, you can. And yes, realistically! And even in the private and serene surroundings of your own guild hall, both a pvp and a pve character can do this. Please prepare your statements with fact, before filling these threads with fiction if you have not determined the truth of the matter beforehand.
You are also, able to twink any item you wish, from your storage onto your pvp character. A rockmolder, a particular staff that strikes your fancy. Stop trying to imply that you cannot do these things without ease. These items are not auto customized. The only way you will lose them, is if you re-roll, and forget to remove them from the pvp characters inventory, or if you had customized the item and have now rendered it useless by re-rolling. Talk about realism, there it all is, laid out rather nicely for you. |
anyway, the problems with assuming PvP chars currently have the same items available to them as PvE characters:
1) not all players have guilds
2) not all guild halls have weapon smiths
3) only viable with offhands and shields
4) not possible for most weapons due to losing it when rerolling
5) no weapon smith in most pvp areas, just plain inconvenient
6) MANY items will get deleted
7) not possible to get multiple armor sets
8) requires the items are obtained through pve
9) still requires high pve activity to be equal in pvp, not fixing the problem at all.
-off the top of my head
It is obviously absurd to say that PvP created characters and PvE created characters are on the same footing regarding items. After going through certain rather inconvenient processes, it is possible that they can *slightly* improve. This is assuming that the PvPers have money and the means to get these items through PvE to begin with.
My question then becomes...why? Why not impliment these items in the PvP screen, or limit the PvE characters to that of a PvP char in combat areas? It promotes fair and equal play in the best interests of the game. What is it about making pvp and pve chars equal that you are so opposed to?
shadowfell
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Thats great. Now Anet drops a new update. The meta game has changed, and suddenly you have to change your build needs tweaking. Now you need a different attribute helm/superior rune. Thats no problem, just reroll. But we were using some PVE items that we customized. Meaning they are worthless if we reroll, since they were customized. All the money on those perfect mods gone. So whats the PvE-P char gonna do? He can just swap. Multiple helmets. Multiple armor sets. Multiple weapon sets. Switch attributes. Ok, all done. |
Customization is a choice. If you are not secure with customizing a weapon, then do not do so. PvP have free item unlocks (in the form of faction), and you can make a pvp axe and stick 20/20 or cruel, or barbed, or vamp, or zealous, of furious and fortitude on it for -free-. Kick some ass in halls, win some sigils, and buy another one on the pve side if you want to replace what you lost that much.
I see you completely dodged the fact you placed words in my mouth in your previous post as well.
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Originally Posted by Big_L
It is obviously absurd to say that PvP created characters and PvE created characters are on the same footing regarding items. After going through certain rather inconvenient processes, it is possible that they can *slightly* improve. This is assuming that the PvPers have money and the means to get these items through PvE to begin with. My question then becomes...why? Why not impliment these items in the PvP screen, or limit the PvE characters to that of a PvP char in combat areas? It promotes fair and equal play in the best interests of the game. What is it about making pvp and pve chars equal that you are so opposed to? |
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by shadowfell
As the saying goes, and forgive me for being so crass... "shit happens" Ever since the mm nerfs I have ceased playing the build at all. Gone are hundreds of thousands of gold I had spent on that build. Like everyone else, I chose to suck it up and move on. It is not that hard to do.
Customization is a choice. If you are not secure with customizing a weapon, then do not do so. pvp have free item unlocks and you can make a pvp axe and stick 20/20 or cruel, or barbed, or vamp, or zealous, of furious and fortitude on it for -free-. Kick some ass in halls, win some sigils, and buy another one on the pve side if you want to replace what you lost that much. |
And imo, customization is NOT a choice in PvP. You have to customize your weapons if you are a weapon damage class if you want to be successful.
So why not lock the inventory? You yourself consider it not a major issue.
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Originally Posted by shadowfell
4 of the 8 members of the last pride were pvp characters only.. It really didn't seem that this was a major issue in their win against WM. This folks, is the top shelf of pvp and I don't think the monks armor is what won the matches for them. It was strategy and preperation.
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shadowfell
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
So why not lock the inventory? You yourself consider it not a major issue. |
For the last time, leave inventories alone... now, I'm off to GvG.
As another saying goes;
"those who can, do, and those who can't, talk about it"
Age
I don't know if I am for this as PvP char can use 4 set of weapons and if they included a secound set of armor for them to change into then then they could without locking the inventories.This can all be done be the pvp creation screen.I would say that pve char have 2 or 3 sets of armorbut thiere weapons are still not on par with pvp char.They are starting to but at a high cost and this is suppose to be competive game.
JR
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Originally Posted by shadowfell
Edit: nm.. I'm done with this thread.. I stated my case and it makes sense. If people want to read common sense, they can scroll back the 5 pages.
For the last time, leave inventories alone... now, I'm off to GvG. As another saying goes; "those who can, do, and those who can't, talk about it" |
Dougal Kronik
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Originally Posted by JR-
I have yet to hear a reason why inventory locking is a bad solution. If you actually want to provide one before your dramatic departure, please do.
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This is a poor direction to take in it's implementation. Instead of crippling the PvE characters - permit an expanded set of options for PvP characters. Allow them a second set of armor, up to 4 weapons and offhands, and encourage the players to learn to play as dynamically as the players who PvP with PvE characters.
Don't limit your options - ask for the versatility that is available to PvE characters.
TheGuildWarsPenguin
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Originally Posted by shadowfell
Untrue, Buy it.
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dawnrain
ANet never promised equality. But they did try to design the game so that the inequalities were minimized to a point that all characters would be competetive. Would the outcome of a match between an all Roleplaying character team versus an all PvP character team be a foregone conclusion? Are the inequalities such that PvP characters are never used in the highest levels of PvP play?
That being said, I do think inventories should be locked. Not so much for the advantage that it provides, but because I don't think the designers intended armor swapping outside of towns. The interface doesn't provide for "armor sets," comparable to weapon sets so that players can swap armor at a push of a key. The designers modified the game to remove refund points and lock attribute point switching, but with armor switching limited attribute point switching is possible. I suspect that when armor benefits and drawbacks were designed they did not take into account the ability to switch armor. This allowed the possibility that in some instances players could receive the benefit with no drawbacks. I also think that not allowing armor switching, will allow for a greater variety of future armor attributes with the unavoidable drawbacks.
That being said, I do think inventories should be locked. Not so much for the advantage that it provides, but because I don't think the designers intended armor swapping outside of towns. The interface doesn't provide for "armor sets," comparable to weapon sets so that players can swap armor at a push of a key. The designers modified the game to remove refund points and lock attribute point switching, but with armor switching limited attribute point switching is possible. I suspect that when armor benefits and drawbacks were designed they did not take into account the ability to switch armor. This allowed the possibility that in some instances players could receive the benefit with no drawbacks. I also think that not allowing armor switching, will allow for a greater variety of future armor attributes with the unavoidable drawbacks.
Chooby
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Rieselle
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Originally Posted by dawnrain
ANet never promised equality. But they did try to design the game so that the inequalities were minimized to a point that all characters would be competetive. Would the outcome of a match between an all Roleplaying character team versus an all PvP character team be a foregone conclusion? Are the inequalities such that PvP characters are never used in the highest levels of PvP play?
That being said, I do think inventories should be locked. Not so much for the advantage that it provides, but because I don't think the designers intended armor swapping outside of towns. |
Having said that, I dont like armour swapping purely for the aesthetics of it. It's silly to be able to change your armour during battle. If they wanted it to be a proper part of the game, they should make a fairer and more well-thought out mechanic for it. If not, get rid of it.
JR
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
It only benefits the PvP characters.
This is a poor direction to take in it's implementation. Instead of crippling the PvE characters - permit an expanded set of options for PvP characters. Allow them a second set of armor, up to 4 weapons and offhands, and encourage the players to learn to play as dynamically as the players who PvP with PvE characters. Don't limit your options - ask for the versatility that is available to PvE characters. |
I am happy with the suggestion of adding in NPCs that let you add armor sets and so on, but I simply think that is far far FAR more hassle for anet than simply locking inventory.
No offense but half of the people objecting to this have no use for a PvP ready PVE character anyway...
Divineshadows
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
It only benefits the PvP characters.
This is a poor direction to take in it's implementation. Instead of crippling the PvE characters - permit an expanded set of options for PvP characters. Allow them a second set of armor, up to 4 weapons and offhands, and encourage the players to learn to play as dynamically as the players who PvP with PvE characters. Don't limit your options - ask for the versatility that is available to PvE characters. |
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Originally Posted by dawnrain
ANet never promised equality. But they did try to design the game so that the inequalities were minimized to a point that all characters would be competetive.
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dawnrain
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Originally Posted by Divineshadows
ANet's updates continue to push toward this equality that you state they never promised. They modify existing PvE items -- HoD helm, Nolani wand, original Rockmolder, etc. In other cases, they just add more options to the PvP character creation screen. The inequalities are continuing to become less and less.
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While the addition of more options to the PvP character creation screen does reduce the inequality, this is not necessarily an indication that ANet's ultimate goal is equality. The motivation for additional options for PvP character creation, might just have been that ANet wanted them to have more options.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by dawnrain
If you know of a statement by ANet promising equality, please share it with us. I suspect, if the Opening Poster knew of such a statement they would've referenced it in the Opening Post.
While the addition of more options to the PvP character creation screen does reduce the inequality, this is not necessarily an indication that ANet's ultimate goal is equality. The motivation for additional options for PvP character creation, might just have been that ANet wanted them to have more options. |
dawnrain
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
edit button. Please re-read the OP
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I wonder to what extent equality will ultimately take? Would the time it takes to obtain/unlock the various mods be considered as something that needs to be equalized? Does this bode well for an eventual npc weapon mod dealer?
Maria The Princess
well i have read about 2 pages (first and last)
i agree with the OP. GW PVP is about strategy skill and not about time spend in game farming. as advertised actually. so when i take my ranger in HA, i look at what is the ele doin and changing my armor to vs lightning/fire etc... yes not fair but i have all those sets... now with my pvp ranger, i realse i cant swap armor before beging, so im stuck with the original build.
YES, i think PVP should remain "planing ahead" strategy party build, and PVE characters should not have a advantage of having 10 weapons instead of 4, and only 1 armor set.
i wouldnt mind being able to unlock cool looking armors and stuff, but Cmon, what does it change? if you get PWNED your armor doesnt make it half PWNED... you are stll as PWNED as with normal armor
i agree with the OP. GW PVP is about strategy skill and not about time spend in game farming. as advertised actually. so when i take my ranger in HA, i look at what is the ele doin and changing my armor to vs lightning/fire etc... yes not fair but i have all those sets... now with my pvp ranger, i realse i cant swap armor before beging, so im stuck with the original build.
YES, i think PVP should remain "planing ahead" strategy party build, and PVE characters should not have a advantage of having 10 weapons instead of 4, and only 1 armor set.
i wouldnt mind being able to unlock cool looking armors and stuff, but Cmon, what does it change? if you get PWNED your armor doesnt make it half PWNED... you are stll as PWNED as with normal armor
tracydunklee
People think that it is unfair that PvE characters has all what seems to be the advantages in this game. Yet it seems very unfair if the PvP had the same choices when making there 2 minute character. PvE players has to buy, find or whatever for there upgrades for there armor or weapons. Not to say anything about upgrading their armor. Which PvP gets it for free and any upgrades. Just has longs as they are unlocked. Is that really fair to the PvE player? Anything I have even read, even from GW's said that a PvP character is a weaker character compaired to it PvE counter part. Personnally, a PvP charcter is for the lazy player. Someone who does not want to invest anytime in their character nor their Guild.