Warriors On Strike

If you notice, it was updated at 2:08, and that post was made at 2:10... think i might have edited it some??? that is why i wanted people to make sure they read it... there r alot of ppl ranting at nothing and they need to just chill....

Warriors are not attacked in pvp so it makes no difference. If all the other classes now have better armor than the poor warrior, then maybe you should make yourself a caster and try overextending, I am sure it will work wonder. And as far as I know, no where does it says that the warrior should be at the front line at all time, so if it doesn't work anymore you will just have to adapt(poor you). But from what I have seen so far, this will not be necessary.

Just mine, everyone's, or the entire concept of gold?

Either way, no, not really. This is their game, they can do with it as they like; if they change it in such a way that I no longer can find any enjoyment in it, then I will simply go find another game, rather than coming onto a message board and demanding that they change it back or else because I deserve it or it's supposed to be the way it was.

All those people talking about realism - Imagine if Anet actually took realism into warriors... Your shield would not even work properly while attacking, and you would walk slower because of all your heavy equipment

Warriors are not attacked first because everyone knows with theire dmg reduction and a little support you couldn't kill them.

That tactic will change very fast since you can bypass a wars armor and dmg reduction completely just by using an elemental weapon.

What's a war going to do when he is not on the front lines. Wand a target to death. Maybe he should break out that bow that does so much dmg and goes so well with his skills. Wars are made for the front lines. Putting them on the front lines or overextending now will probly die just as fast as anything else.

Just as you said try putting a caster on the front lines or overextend. Wars are in the same boat now. If your going to post something don't counter your own argument. You might want to take a look at my avatar. Sure does look a war, huh?

You cannot bypass the entire warrior armor with elemental weapon, this is just plain false and no matter how you try to slice it, in a normal situation the warrior still have the most AL(excluding maybe a ranger with druid armor, but that is strickly against elemental damage). There are other target more vulnerable then the warrior to choose from and the warrior still remains the hardess to kill. If you overextend too much and get your self killed you are the only one to blame, no matter which class you play.

You should try adapting before whining to no end.

The change is not a nerf to warriors, but a buff to Elementalist. Elementalist need the buffs badly.

Stop all your whining. You're just mad that Anet is actually fixing something for once and not neglecting it like usual.

Sigh, let me show you.

Take the normal Wars armor set up for PvP. Glads chest, leggings, KD gloves, and boots of your choice. Now lets compare that to the armor options for other classes.

That's 80 AL vs elemental and other types of none armor ignoring dmg (chaos dmg from a wand is not armor ignoring). Since you can control what type of dmg you deal (elementals are the exception) you are NEVER going to hit a war with physical dmg because they get +20 AL which is a 1/4 reduction in dmg. Only thing war armor is good against now is physical dmg. Every class on the game can deal elemental dmg or armor ignoring. Now lets compare it to other armor set ups for the other classes.


Ranger
70 AL base
+10 stance
+30 elemental dmg
That's 80 AL base vs physical and 110 vs elemental

Again ranger is the same as war just reversed. You can control what type of dmg you deal so you are NEVER going to hit a ranger with elemental dmg exept elementals (they have no other choice of dmg).


Monk
60 AL base
+10 while enchanted
+15 while conditions (this is a global mod that was not "fixed")
+5 enchanted off-hand
Staff with Def head and wrapping +10 AL

So a monk can acheive 95 AL vs all types of dmg that are none armor ignoring. That's better than what a war can acheive with the norm pvp set up under the best circumstances. Even if you don't use the Def head and wrapping you end up with 75 AL which is only a 1/16 more dmg compared to 80 AL. Keeping up yet?


Elementalist
60 AL base
+10 while enchanted
+5 enchanted off-hand
+10 Staff head and wrapping

Again this is 80 AL vs all types of dmg. Since Ele's don't need the energy head or the enchanting wrapping this is not an uncommon choice. Beginning to see a trend here?


Assassin
70 AL base
+15 while attacking
+5 def daggers

Assassins are a little bit different since they can only def against physical dmg and only certain types of physical dmg. The +`15 while attacking is their best choice since you need that extra armor when you shadow step behind lines to kill a target. While attacking that's 90 AL vs all types of none armor ignoring dmg. While not attacking that's 75 AL as before is a 1/16 more dmg compared to 80 AL.


Necromancer
60 AL base, 70 (tormentors)
+15 MM armor (if using a MM)
+10 Def head and wrapping
+5 enchanted off-hand

Tormentors is still the best choice for necos. Smiters are running around but with the recent AoE nerf you will see less balth aura so no need to fear zealots its fire. With tormentors and Def staff that's 80 AL. If your in PvE you can acheive 95 AL.


Mesmer
60 AL base
+10 enchanted or stance
+10 Def staff
+5 Def enchanted off-hand

Oh look another 80 AL def vs all types of none armor ignoring dmg. Even at 75 its a 1/16 more dmg taken than at 80.


This is why I feel this update has stripped what a war really is. He is dependant on the dmg reduction to be able to run glads for the 5 energy. Now we have to give up that 5 energy to use dragons so we can get a 1/8 reduction of dmg from elemental dmg compared to the glads set.

Tell me what is balanced about having a monk have THE best overall armor on the game? Give the sheilds and rune back to -dmg vs all types and leave knights/ascalon the way it is. Sorry for all the people that have the 15k and FoW armor. We know that was understood as a bug but the shields and rune were working as intended.

Its not a buff to eles when EVERY class in the game can now deal more dmg to wars.

Yep and I can make a warrior with 121 AL Against everything if I wanted too. Just like I can make a monk with 95 AL but I would never use a staff with both mods dedicated to defense. You are comparing the other classes from a highest-possible-AL point of view but you completely ignore that a warrior can have much more. Also most of these additional AL bonus coming from the armors are conditional and you certainly can't always count on that all the time.

And he didn't factor in AL from a warrior's shield or weapon mod. Just used the base 80 AL.

(and monks can't carry foci and staffs)

Statistical manipulation: FTW

Boon prots are enchanted majority of the match. Unless they are stripped or use cop they are enchanted with something.

Thumpers and touchers stay in stances.

Mesmers all use some type of mantra in most builds allowing them to stay in a stance.

Assassins only need the armor when they shadow step to kill a target while attacking. Other than they are not under fire and not taking dmg so need for extra armor.

Ritualist usually always have 3 more spirits up or are enchanted.

Necros don't ned 5 energy due to SR. Only a tainted necro is going to need a enchant wrapping,

Even if you use 1 of the def mods on a staff or the +5 enchanted off hand at 75 AL you take 1/16 more dmg compared to 80. Most casters obtain 75 AL as a norm. Just because you don't use the +5 armor mods for staffs doesn't mean others don't.

These examples just show you how weak the wars def is now. Right now tactics have not changed much towards priority targets in PvP. Give it a week or two and you'll start seeing wars being killed first or 2nd. With a warrior dead there is less pressure on you and have to use less energy using those anti-war skills.

Best case that is PvP worthy is 90 AL vs everything for a war but you lose 5 energy obtaining that. Sentinel will not be used in PvP. 13 str just for armor just isn't worth it for 10 more def.

Its options that the classes have for def mods not manipulation. Do your own math with the choices you make. Guess weapon switches don't exist either?

Common Sense: FTW

Well what you think is worth it is all up to you, but I personally don't use any def mods and if you don't want sentinel then it is your own problem. The rules have changed, you'll have to get used to it. My point still stand, a warrior that wishes to can have more AL than everyone else.

ahh... ya that 121 ur talking about... 100 being with 13 strength... now, since the nerfage, warriors need tactics alot more, so 13 strength isnt going to be easy...

Don't forget that other classes have skills that can defend agianst elemental damageThe Warrrior does not have any.

Thats why you can have a secondary profession.

Yep, just like you have to be enchanted and be suffering from a condition and have a dual def modded staff to obtain 95AL on a monk. That is much more conditional than 13 str.

But again, this purely a personal choice if you don't want to have 13str it is your own problem and you will have to live with it. I choose not to use any def mods on my monk's staff and I therefore live with it. Why shouldn't you?

lol you war can always switch to W/me and get all the mantras and ele resistance for your build,but i guess you didnt think of that oh well.....

Wah! I go on a short vacation and everything changed! At first the change seems crazy, but then I thought well: All my armors have the knight's boots sets which are now worthless, but the only other thing I would care to put on my feet would be glad's, and losing potentially 1 nrg doesn't seem to bother me that much, and also I can finally wear my 15k glads boots with pride again They've been sittin around in my inventory rusting for too long.

It's true warriors are that much more screwed vs. elementalists, but in PvP ppl never seemed to bother warriors much anyways until the rest of the team was dead, though they might now since the warriors have that much more vulnerability, but then in PvE this might be a good thing. I personally have never really taken much dmg at all when I play warrior in PvE, because I do my best to play it right, I wouldn't mind taking a few more slaps in the face here and there. Also, the longstanding stereotype of the "wammo" might get little lesson in humility when they die a little faster.

I apologize for not reading all 24 pages of this thread before posting, and hope I didn't say things that have already been flamed to death :P That's just my 3 cents.

So...By this logic, the Assassins (who are in the front lines as much as the Warriors, and have by far worse armor) deserve an Uber Rune of Absorption, with -5 damage (to all kind of damages)?

Keep in mind that you don't need the extra 5 energy, you don't need the knock down gloves, you don't need anything at all. Those are only your choices, not something you have to use or you'll be useless.

Warriors already have too many little tricks (the "hexes don't last as long" helmet, the knock down gloves, the Absorption Runes, etc...), I think it's only fair that they lose some of those, or that all classes get some of them. An Assassin is as much a melee Profession as a Warrior, and he has absolutely none of those novelties.

Erasculio

If you are considering hand-held items, you should incorporate +16 (or +21) AL into the warrior calculations.

On the other side, your "while enchanted" examples can get +15 AL using the +5 focus and the "Charr at the Gate" sword with a defense mod on it (FWIW).

At least you said something of that WILL happen to tactics towards a war. I've been playing matches and have changed to that tactic. 80% of the time I can kill the war first before I kill anything else.

To me the dmg reduction was balanced because of the ammount of anti-war skills present in the game. The war has no way to deal with these type of skill alone. Since you couldn't kill him easily you could shut him down till the time came. Now you don't need to shut him down. Just kill him outright and dp him out.

Then my Assassin should have the same benefit. Any hex that kills a warrior will kill an assassin(even the hex dedicated to casters can screw up an assassin), so why don't I have my very own Rune too?

And don't bring the whole Assassin have teleports crap, nothing stops you from using them too.

Warriors have at least a few skills that boost armor, don't they?

dont think this statement can even begin to defend yours, cause you know what? assassins have 4 pips of energy regen, what does a warrior have? oh right, only 2, the least of any other class. so tell me all-knowing person, could you explain to me why a primary class should have to depend on a 2nd chapter class as his 2ndary now to even begin to stay alive? LOL oh and its scarcly useable. for example, hey lets use AoD, ok.. 10 energy, maintain it. either get shattered right after, or never get close to 10 energy after the fact with just 1 pip. lets not forget if you cancel, your going back to your spot? pointless?

you say nothing stops us from using teles as a warrior, your simply Wrong.

by this bolded statement alone, you prove you know nothing about the 2 classes.

/signed

are we organising anything official llike a demonstration in Kaineng or something?

You perfectly can with the right build ... I have seen many myself. Just because you don't want to or want to try doing it doesn't mean you can't. I don't pretend to be all-knowing, but many of the people here refuses to adapt and try new things, which is why I say all this. Everything you said about AoD is true to the Assassin too, so I don't know where you are getting at.

of course, thats a way to get more ele resistance and what not, but when was guild wars about only one class combo for effectiveness? to even begin to stay in the game?

Maybe they were trying to make assassins more appealing by making their armor not seeming as bad, but assasins are great and warriors were still fine. Maybe it was an attempt to make guildwars seem more like real life, and we all know that elemental damage is a huge threat in real life, just like warriors are constantly threatened by physical damage in guildwars.

the real thing that pretty much ticks me off, i dont care what anyones ideas are, honestly, the real issue is, why were runes and shields changed?

its very simple, why would you make it only vs physical? as it was said on some other page, would a shield not protect you even alittle from a fireball? thus -2 dmg?? no?? are you dumb or just plain stupid? its as realistic as you can make it.

where did the idea of runes come from? fantasy i think, so I would assume it would protect from all dmgs, no? well you compare that to some amulet that protects you from 2 punches from some thug...or something of that idea..

sheesh

and no this is not directed to anyone specificly.

lol I certainly wouldn't want a super high temperature fireball to hit my metallic shield.

I can adapt, no problem, getting new boots, no problem, getting no builds to stay with the game, no problem. I dont have to, this is a fact, but i wouldnt go nuts about that.

its the dmg mod change on runes and shields. THIS is the beef, with such an out of nowhere nerf, its not comparable to the AoE nerf for eles, its got nothing to do with it eles pwning warriors, its about the warrior getting plowed by an extra amount of hp for a monk to heal, just because 3 casters were swinging their wands at him... seriously.

an offical response as to why it was done, would satisfy me entirely - maybe anet just lost it, maybe they have a great plan coming up, maybe its time to find a new game, or enjoy it while i can? we'll see but until someone gives me a headsup on where this response is located, i will do what i see fit, in terms of explaining my opinion.

k thnx

not all shields are made of metal entirely

ADMIN EDIT: floppinghog, use the edit button. Do not post multiple times in a row.

Of course not, but I wouldn't count on it to stop a fireball.

wow... now monks have to heal Assasins, the softies and Warriors extensively... looks like we might be seeing LF 3 Monks for mission

So get yourself a Dragon's set and get 111, 121 versus physical.

I haven't read most of the thread myself, but although my Warrior is one of my favourite characters, my main response was 'about time'. Admittedly that was mainly about the Knight's glitch being fixed, but the other stuff doesn't seem so bad:

* At least one of the absorption sources (the rune, I think) only affected physical already. So it's not as big a hit as some people may think.

* Physical seems, to me, to be where the absorption did the most good anyway. Wands aren't really that scary, and most of the nasty stuff from casters either ignores absorption entirely anyway, or is generally doing damage in large packets that the damage reduction is a relatively small amount. It also gives more incentive to use elemental mods on weapons - and remember, a weapon with an elemental mod is a weapon that doesn't have a max Vampiric or some other mod on it.

* It gives Knight's a definite place in the armour hierarchy for Warriors. At the moment, the breakdown seems to be:
Dragon: Anti-elemental (and anti-wand and anti-Judge's Insight)
Gladiator: Energy
Knight: Anti-physical
Berserker: General, but especially vs armour-ignoring effects (through larger hit point sink)
Legionnaire: Situational anti-physical
Sentinel: Conditional anti-elemental (and as Dragon note)

Certainly beats all those Gladiator's with on piece of Knight's/Ascalon (or occasionally Dragon/Platemail with one piece of Knight's/Ascalon) we used to see in Prophecies...

Really, I think this is a change we can learn to live with, just like the AoE update. Just remember the secondary professions if you really feel the need to compensate (I think Elemental Resistance on a full absorption set and shield keyed to Stances may be a good option - since armour-effecting damage from physical usually comes in relatively small packets, you can rely on the absorption to keep physical damage at bay while the resistance does the real work on elemental attacks. And if you're really that scared of light, dark, and chaos wands... )

EDIT: I'm also waiting with baited breath for the Tank Troubles special to lampoon this incident. Labsenpai, you watching?

I bet half the people complaining about the warrior nerf were loving it when the eles got nerfed- oops, I mean when the "aoe improvement" came out. How many of you said, "Suck it up and deal with it, whiners" when the eles where complaining? Just wondering. Guess the eles got the last laugh.

Actually, I don't like this new nerf either. What good is my damage reduction rune going to do for me on my leggings?
I was henching with my war last night and it was obvious I was taking a lot more damage than I was a few nights ago attempting the same mission. Lots of colorful gobs coming my way and nothing I could do about it because they also slowed me down so I took forever to get in close. Melee chars ftl.

I also suspect they nerfed wars to make assasins more palatable. They could have just raised the 'sin's armor lvl, but that would have meant admitting they didn't have the 'sin balanced on release, and A-net will admit to being wrong about something about the same time a politician will admit it- never.

BTW, I know assasins a balanced and great and all that crap, but from what I've seen 80-90% of the assasins don't understand how to play their char, and most pugs are gun-shy about inviting any more 'sins after a half-dozen bad experiences.

No more wammo's in RA, I am happy!

Ok, to start this one out, a few responses.

There's a common saying I like. "I can only please one person a day, today isn't your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either."

You can't please everyone with a game. The larger the fan base, the more dissenters. It's that simple.

You know, if five people who could cast fireballs or create small explosions anywhere they wanted all attacked on person at the same time, even if he was heavily armored in middle-aged armor... that guy would be dead.

The best way to stop magic, should be magic.

Exactly! And I know you meant to use this as a reason for the strike, but to me, its a reason for the recent update.

As I said in my above response, your muscle-bound warrior should be a bad ass against other warriors, but when it comes to something he may not be able to see, or physically fight, he should be at a disadvantage.

Will your armor save you from drownding? Will it save you from suffication? Will it make you less of a conductor of electricity? If you fall into a fire, will it stop you from becoming a roast?

If something can directly affect your soul, how the hell do you expect armor to stop that?

Call it practical, call it realism or whatever you want (I prefer Realism.) ANet is, imo, implimenting a lot more flavor features to illustrate a sense of realism and depth to the game.

The scribe, like it or hate it, is one of those methods.

Making a Warrior into their current phase is another. As I said above, sure you're able to take a beating, but magic is a whole new level.

I'd rather have realism in a game, that has a flow and a sense of fluidity and FUN, instead of number crunching to create the "best build."

Hell, something I'd call fun? ANet impliments a system in which the casting time, energy cost, recharge, duration and damage output (or buff, etc) is altered on a weekly basis. Not drastic changes, but small +/- changes here and there so sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not.

Variation, change, THOUGHT. Not stagnation and number crunching.

--

Now onto the direct subject matter proposed by the OP. As much as I think a strike in a video game is humorous... sad, and humorous, go ahead, please go ahead.

I would much rather have everyone who wants a cookie-cutter build go on strike while the people who want to PLAY the game, actually... wait for it... play the game.

Makes you wonder if other games have this "You aren't making your game the way I want it exactly so there for I'm going to spend my time standing around at (insert town) and refusing to play" mentality to deal with.

^not going to quote to save space. But...
If you're saying they updated it to be realistic, what in guildwars is realistic? If there are guys that can throw a fireball at you (which I've never met any in real life) why not have armor that can defend against it?