EoE Nerfed
twicky_kid
Now will only deal dmg to foes with less than 90% hp.
VitisVinifera
as I put in the update thread, it's anerf's way to across-the-board nerf something when there is one situational exploit.
why not address the exploit instead of nerfing the pve'ers too? hell the entire kurzick monster side is saying 'wtf?' with us humans too
I'm hoping song meant 'beyond odd' (which it is)
why not address the exploit instead of nerfing the pve'ers too? hell the entire kurzick monster side is saying 'wtf?' with us humans too
I'm hoping song meant 'beyond odd' (which it is)
Naomi Heartily
Having it 90% isn't going to make EoE effective anymore whatsoever unless they have it so it affects spirits. Otherwise I doubt there will be much use.
Although, it'll still be in IWAY...
Although, it'll still be in IWAY...
Zinger314
Anyways, it was inevitable. It prevents saccing in AB. That's worth it.
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-Mercury Angel
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Jamski
Best. Nerf. Ever.
Thanks Anet.
Thanks Anet.
ChildeOfMalkav
Even though the EoE nerf doesnt affect me at all, I think it's a stupid change. Why? Because as someone said, instead of addressing the root of the problem, ANET chose to make a bandaid across the board fix.
Instead of making these dumb changes, there needs to be a change in mechanics/and or banning so people dont grief/exploit others in Alliance battles.
And I say again, I'm not whining about EoE changes, I just think ANET is going the wrong direction in trying to prevent griefers.
Instead of making these dumb changes, there needs to be a change in mechanics/and or banning so people dont grief/exploit others in Alliance battles.
And I say again, I'm not whining about EoE changes, I just think ANET is going the wrong direction in trying to prevent griefers.
Sekkira
Kinda defeats the purpose of EoE imo. You'd have to focus damage on 8 different targets to get them down past 90% each and if EoE is dropped it isn't hard for the monk to bring them back up just beyond.
Former Ruling
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Originally Posted by Me In Another Thread
Anyway...EoE is working now probably like they INTENDED it to work in the first place...so I really cant argue.
I could say stuff like "I can balance it better..blah blah blah" and suggest things like merely weakening its power to not be enough dmg to "bomb" someone. But remember...EoE was probably never MEANT to be "the bombing skill" anyway, it is, GOD FORBID I MENTION IT, probably designed to be used like IWAY carries it - Sort of an extra dmg thing and "if you kill me, you are dead too" type deal... |
I pwnd U
Who cares if its old or not. Anyways This is a great idea. EoE has been a curse to some parts of the game. It plauged HA for awhile with the stupid EoE bombs. Then came IWAY, and so on and so forth. EoE is a great spell but it was too powerful. Ya it will still be in IWAY but it wont be as dangerous to players that are at full health or closer. Great nerf.
ChildeOfMalkav
If EoE was indeed nerfed for reasons other than griefing in Alliance Battles then I can accept that. I guess Im a bit pissed at the griefing and nothing done about it other than this bandaid fix.
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-Mercury Angel
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Matsumi
I like this update
VitisVinifera
the people who are all for this nerf are coming from an entirely different direction and they fail to realize this: EoE is a problem with griefers in PvP. Many (most?) of us primarly (really, nearly exclusively) PvE. EoE can be quite useful vs large mobs where you can chain it.
For those who can't see outside of the arenas: this nerf extends well beyond your playing experience and is hurting the experience of others who go nowhere near the exploit.
Anerf: you, again, suck. gg
For those who can't see outside of the arenas: this nerf extends well beyond your playing experience and is hurting the experience of others who go nowhere near the exploit.
Anerf: you, again, suck. gg
Shadowfox1125
I'm guessing Anet nerfed it because of Aspenwood--Luxon Rangers use EoE--now the NPCs will have to be hurt before EoE affects them.
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SasquatchTimeToDie
Poor Grawl farmers...
Curse You
On topic, I find the EoE "nerf" to be a rather called for alteration. There has in the past been much abuse of the skill and it seemed to be slightly overpowered. Now you must actually engage the enemy in order to use this skill effectively.
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Tachyon
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Originally Posted by VitisVinifera
the people who are all for this nerf are coming from an entirely different direction and they fail to realize this: EoE is a problem with griefers in PvP. Many (most?) of us primarly (really, nearly exclusively) PvE. EoE can be quite useful vs large mobs where you can chain it.
For those who can't see outside of the arenas: this nerf extends well beyond your playing experience and is hurting the experience of others who go nowhere near the exploit. Anerf: you, again, suck. gg |
Nice going ANet!
arcanemacabre
Anyway, OT, I think this is great! Any amount of fixing something that can be and is exploited for griefing is always a good thing. (sarcasm) Now for those running skills..... (/end sarcasm)
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twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125
I'm guessing Anet nerfed it because of Aspenwood--Luxon Rangers use EoE--now the NPCs will have to be hurt before EoE affects them.
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Most of the time on the luxon sider there is a bunch of wars and rangers. now there will be eles and rangers. Changing eoe will not stop the onslaught there.
As for AB how hard is it to just kill or interrupt the EoE. Even if 1 team is a bunch of saccers they can only kill 3 at a time. That's a whopping 90-120 dmg.
To me this wasn't needed. If they will nerf a skill specificly for abuse in AB the paragon doesn't stand a chance when it comes out as shouts affect all allies even ones not in your party.
Silver_Fang
The EoE nerf will actually make killing Urgoz a little bit harder. but oh well, its just take a little bit longer since once you take Urgoz HP down to 90%, its just the same old running around.
I pwnd U
It will make it more fun! I got to him and expected to have a challenge but was told to run around like a chicken with my head cut off. Not how i wanted to end a mission. Bored the crap out of me. I am glad that they changed that. The only problem is, is that they will attack him for awhile then they will just do the whole run around like a chicken with your head cut off. But i guess its better then doing it the whole time.
samifly
I think its a little overboard for a spirit, and makes it pretty much useless. Change the way it determins "species" or whatever, lower the already low damage. I mean its in beastmastery for goodness sake, so unless you are using a pet its wasting alot of your points. Oh and yeay...urgoz takes longer....
MooseyFate
Well, they fundamentally f-ed EoE.
Maybe there were (or will be with Nightfall) some aspects that make it unbalanced. But for me, a person who just likes to play everything a little, EoE was one of those "really cool skills that I barely ever use, but am excited by the idea of it and use it a little". This change takes away all that excitement. I have a ranger that hit Lv. 19 tonight. Guess I don't have to buy the skill for him, huh?
There are the two places I think EoE needed changed:
1) Urgoz Warden... the final boss battle is just a joke with EoE. Funny once, but dumb any more than that. This change doesn't fix anything. Groups will just bring some minor degen to get him down to 90%, then run the same EoE technique to finish him off.
2) EoE Bomb in 8v8. It is exciting that this is a possible build to run or have to fight. It's overspecialized, and therefore suffers serious weakness and is not overpowered. The one element that debatably makes this build too powerful is using a rez technique that works through Frozen Soil (like ashes). So if this was the problem, Frozen would have been the skill that needed changed, not EoE. And for those of you who say "I hated fighting EoE anyways", yeah, everyone could bitch about the build they don't use. I say instead just roll with it and try every build once or twice just for the fun of something different. I haven't used EoE bomb for 4-6 months, but I don't want this build become extinct itself.
Like I said, I don't use it much, but the idea was exciting... now... not so much. ANet, why not just remove the skill? (ps - yeah, exaggeration, but still)
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[url]http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/[\url] 8/17/06 "Modified Edge of Extinction so that creatures must have less than 90% Health remaining in order to be affected." |
There are the two places I think EoE needed changed:
1) Urgoz Warden... the final boss battle is just a joke with EoE. Funny once, but dumb any more than that. This change doesn't fix anything. Groups will just bring some minor degen to get him down to 90%, then run the same EoE technique to finish him off.
2) EoE Bomb in 8v8. It is exciting that this is a possible build to run or have to fight. It's overspecialized, and therefore suffers serious weakness and is not overpowered. The one element that debatably makes this build too powerful is using a rez technique that works through Frozen Soil (like ashes). So if this was the problem, Frozen would have been the skill that needed changed, not EoE. And for those of you who say "I hated fighting EoE anyways", yeah, everyone could bitch about the build they don't use. I say instead just roll with it and try every build once or twice just for the fun of something different. I haven't used EoE bomb for 4-6 months, but I don't want this build become extinct itself.
Like I said, I don't use it much, but the idea was exciting... now... not so much. ANet, why not just remove the skill? (ps - yeah, exaggeration, but still)
azunder
So...people are angry because EoE no longer kills EVERYTHING at radar range?
What kind of nerf would you have done instead?
What kind of nerf would you have done instead?
Mercury Angel
You'll notice a good number of posts in this thread have been removed, or have a nifty little red tag indicating the content was edited.
Please don't respond to a user you feel is trolling, particularly if it's to say you know they're trolling. Instead of having to delete 1-2 posts, I had to delete 5-6, and edit another 5-6.
Regardless of whether they're trolling or not, it's all off-topic, and it'll be dealt with in the timeliest manner possible, when a moderator is aware of it.
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On-topic -
EoE bombing was an ineffective gimmick build that rolled unprepared teams. Well, it was better when it was broken, and EoE effects triggered based on the player's location, and not the spirit's, enabling it to reach significantly father than it should have.
But this also hits the usefulness of it in PvE as well. You kill a few monsters at a time, and the EoE triggers to damage the other enemies, who are normally of the same species. Now you have to weaken them all, which really kills the purpose of it.
On the bright side, teamkill effects have been mostly neutered, including Edge and minions, minimizing griefing potential.
And, I rarely use Edge of Extinction, so I'm not really going to complain about this much. It's a bit annoying, but meh, it's their choice.
Please don't respond to a user you feel is trolling, particularly if it's to say you know they're trolling. Instead of having to delete 1-2 posts, I had to delete 5-6, and edit another 5-6.
Regardless of whether they're trolling or not, it's all off-topic, and it'll be dealt with in the timeliest manner possible, when a moderator is aware of it.
</end moderator business>
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On-topic -
EoE bombing was an ineffective gimmick build that rolled unprepared teams. Well, it was better when it was broken, and EoE effects triggered based on the player's location, and not the spirit's, enabling it to reach significantly father than it should have.
But this also hits the usefulness of it in PvE as well. You kill a few monsters at a time, and the EoE triggers to damage the other enemies, who are normally of the same species. Now you have to weaken them all, which really kills the purpose of it.
On the bright side, teamkill effects have been mostly neutered, including Edge and minions, minimizing griefing potential.
And, I rarely use Edge of Extinction, so I'm not really going to complain about this much. It's a bit annoying, but meh, it's their choice.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by azunder
So...people are angry because EoE no longer kills EVERYTHING at radar range?
What kind of nerf would you have done instead? |
Lady Lozza
I don't agree with this nerf. It makes the skill next to useless in pve. How?
Well I'm with a team that focuses fire and takes down one creature at a time. Now EoE is pointless unless we had an ele with meteor shower with us doing damage to multiple enemies.
Simple nerf: MAKE IT NOT AFFECT HUMANS!
So it couldn't be used against outcasts, white manlte, etc, but no one in pve puts the spirit down in those situations anyway, because it is detrimental to your own team. This would get rid of the griefers in AB, and EoE Bombs in Halls - let's face it, EoE in halls was fun to play, but it wasn't a serious build and it was easy to beat.
Well I'm with a team that focuses fire and takes down one creature at a time. Now EoE is pointless unless we had an ele with meteor shower with us doing damage to multiple enemies.
Simple nerf: MAKE IT NOT AFFECT HUMANS!
So it couldn't be used against outcasts, white manlte, etc, but no one in pve puts the spirit down in those situations anyway, because it is detrimental to your own team. This would get rid of the griefers in AB, and EoE Bombs in Halls - let's face it, EoE in halls was fun to play, but it wasn't a serious build and it was easy to beat.
Mera Regila
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Originally Posted by I pwnd U
Who cares if its old or not. Anyways This is a great idea. EoE has been a curse to some parts of the game. It plauged HA for awhile with the stupid EoE bombs. Then came IWAY, and so on and so forth. EoE is a great spell but it was too powerful. Ya it will still be in IWAY but it wont be as dangerous to players that are at full health or closer. Great nerf.
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HA was not ruined by EoE tho, it was simple to just get out of EoE range, then after they all suicided, you could come in for the kill. P.S. EoE at AB was fun, whenever one group lost, the other group would all die too! It was halarious.
GloryFox
EoE Sac bombers killed the EoE Bomb...LOL! Serves em Right!
kai_razorwind
Once again pve gets screwed because of pvp...They will simply rush in with a fix to anything that affects pvp without caring about what happens to pve as a consequence. Did anyone at Arenanet think that they just made whoever has an Urgoz bow several times richer because it will be a LOT harder to get them now? GG, just friggin typical. They could have solved the problem in a number of ways, yet they did it in a way such that it manages to hurt pve. OMG mms own in ABs! NEEEERF! OMG eoe is being used in a bad way in ABs! NEEERF!
Pathetic...
Pathetic...
arcanemacabre
Question: When exactly does the EoE take effect? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you could use a Death Nova saccer to bomb a group, effectively nuking twice? Would this work? Death Nova doing enough damage to a tight formation to drop them below the 90% mark, then that saccer's death triggering EoE?
Yeah, don't know much about it as I've never used it, but I'm thinking theoretically it could work.
Yeah, don't know much about it as I've never used it, but I'm thinking theoretically it could work.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Question: When exactly does the EoE take effect? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you could use a Death Nova saccer to bomb a group, effectively nuking twice? Would this work? Death Nova doing enough damage to a tight formation to drop them below the 90% mark, then that saccer's death triggering EoE?
Yeah, don't know much about it as I've never used it, but I'm thinking theoretically it could work. |
As for the timing. I don't know if nova or EoE hits first upon death.
lg5000
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Originally Posted by kai_razorwind
Once again pve gets screwed because of pvp...They will simply rush in with a fix to anything that affects pvp without caring about what happens to pve as a consequence. Did anyone at Arenanet think that they just made whoever has an Urgoz bow several times richer because it will be a LOT harder to get them now? GG, just friggin typical. They could have solved the problem in a number of ways, yet they did it in a way such that it manages to hurt pve. OMG mms own in ABs! NEEEERF! OMG eoe is being used in a bad way in ABs! NEEERF!
Pathetic... |
I was quite fond of taking eoe with henchies, though.. always made sure I was up against non-humans when using it cause henchies die fast
Morganas
It's irrelevant that it was nerfed in PVE. EOE was just one of many cheap tricks that make pve trivially easy. There will be more cheap tricks to replace it.
For PVP, the change, however, not only prevents griefing, but brings EOE in line with other spirits as far as its use: something to leverage a certain aspect of your build, not something to build around. EOE can now be used by degen/pressure builds against spike builds.
For PVP, the change, however, not only prevents griefing, but brings EOE in line with other spirits as far as its use: something to leverage a certain aspect of your build, not something to build around. EOE can now be used by degen/pressure builds against spike builds.
tomcruisejr
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Originally Posted by Morganas
For PVP, the change, however, not only prevents griefing, but brings EOE in line with other spirits as far as its use: something to leverage a certain aspect of your build, not something to build around. EOE can now be used by degen/pressure builds against spike builds.
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but yea, EoE is now not that risky to use. still usable in iway, hopefully.
Avarre
Glad of this... EoE should never have made it possible to eradicate whole rooms in PvE or PvP. It was grossly overpowered and too good to be true, especially in areas like Urgoz (which was the cause most likely).
Get that into your head PvE junkies, it was Urgoz abuse that cause the nerf as well as the AB overuse.
GG Anet.
Get that into your head PvE junkies, it was Urgoz abuse that cause the nerf as well as the AB overuse.
GG Anet.
twicky_kid
If a skill had the name extinction in it I expect no less than to kill everything in site.
They should have made it so you couldn't die before the battle started.
They should have made it so you couldn't die before the battle started.
Avarre
Extinction tends to happen when the entire race is weakened, not when one drops dead 
Makes more sense that one a race is below a certain point of strength, the slippery slope starts.
They still would have had to do something to areas like Urgoz.
Makes more sense that one a race is below a certain point of strength, the slippery slope starts.They still would have had to do something to areas like Urgoz.
azunder
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Make it easier to kill or give it a shorter duration.
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A shorter duration...most people who carry EoE (in pvp) have oath shot, just in case it's killed. So, unless you nerf it's duration to something less than 25 seconds there's no real difference.
Any other ideas?
tomcruisejr
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Originally Posted by Sekkira
Kinda defeats the purpose of EoE imo. You'd have to focus damage on 8 different targets to get them down past 90% each and if EoE is dropped it isn't hard for the monk to bring them back up just beyond.
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azunder
Maybe a nerf like "deals half damage on creatures with more than X% HP?" would be better?