Is anyone else worried about the new salvage options?

Those things are not available because the chances of getting those mods is infinitesimal under the current system. And yes, I would use them...that's why I want them. lol

Runs off to salvage his FoW armor because he doesn't like it any more since there's new armor in Nightfall.

Stupid train of thought. There's a difference between obtainable and non-obtainable. Present system very much favors the latter, while the change incorporates the former.

Wow...personal insults versus a rational argument. I guess you totally "pwned" me there.

No, I'm not saying that the current system doesn't completely exclude the type of "luck" that you're referring to.

However, many players don't rely on that "luck" to obtain those items that they desire. They play the game, they accumulate wealth, and they utilize that wealth to purchase the item they want as another "reward" for playing the game.

Your example of being able to purchase that item is definitely relevant...it adds to the frustration of getting the item (which I would argue is the lack of a decent trading system in game), but also adds to the satisfaction when that item is actually purchased.

sumrtym - This also applies to your thoughts as well. Yes, it is very, very hard to find your 20/20 zodiac items. It's also very frustrating. But at the same time, when you DO find that item and have enough wealth to purchase them in the current system, it is highly likely that you would keep that item for a very long time, as a reminder of the "reward" of obtaining that goal.

I believe that the ease of getting that item directly corresponds to how much you personally value that item. No, I'm not saying that you need to trash all of your FoW armor - but there was a level of satisfaction that you derived in getting that armor, given the relatively high cost (and difficulty) in getting it. That goes directly to my point - if that FoW armor cost the same amount as 1.5K, I would say that you are much more likely to abandon it for a new skinned armor, since you realize that it's easily replaceable if you ever choose to go back to it later.

Well, you don't know me at all. I buy what I like. I have many sets of armor, some of which were VERY easy for me to acquire. Guess what? I still have them.

And even if someone did junk it for another item, what business is it of yours anyway? Again, I choose the skins I like and play with them because "I" like them. I don't find endless frustration "fun". And inscriptions is not like typing /preorder. You still have to find a low req skin, mods, etc. and put it together. Your argument you only want what is hard to obtain is false.

BTW, if people complained about getting high-level armor early, it's the first I heard of it. I think the only complaints about that were from people from chapter 1 who liked charging for drok's runs, much as your arguments against inscriptions boil down to now under the pretense of "others interests".

Absolutely true.

I started my necro in GW:P and I loved the pre-searing necro armor, but that skin was not available later in the game, so after a while I bought a 15k bonelace, dyed it black bla bla, but I kept in my inventory the presearing one.

When I discovered that in Cantha the presearing skin was available and with max stats and with the possibility to have +7e, I jumped in no time to the crafter and got my beloved 1,5k armor, and for the rest of the game I have used only that.
I still have the 15k black dyed in my inventory of course, I wear it only sometimes when I am in the cities, when I want to show that I have a 15k black armor ...


This personal example shows that players not necessarily want the 1337est items, they like freedom of choice.
In Prophecies, if you wanted a +7e armor, you were obliged to a fixed skin (gladiator, scar patterns and so on).
With Factions, A.net has given the possibility to choose the skin independently from the stats, adding more flexibility in armor crafting system.

Hopefully in Nightfall this will be finally extended also to weapons, with the great idea of inscription salvaging.

Well, then I'll be really rich real soon since I've got gold jade swords with 15^50 sitting in storage. They're all req 12 so not much of a market for them but if you're right I'll just salvage them for the inscriptions and make loads of cash!

Ofcourse, that rather unlikely to happen.

PS: So, what do you want? You dont want everyone to have godly items but ecto's and shards should come easy and drop by the bucket? You dont think that might devaluate them a tiny bit maybe?

I could see these working out very well. I could also see them very easily getting out of hand. As others have stated, we could start to see people charging 100k+ for clean weapons simply because they have a good req and skin. I for one am sick of the 100k+E crowd already.

Next would be the general availability of the inscriptions. IF there isn't some set price via NPC crafters, these too could start to get out of hand in price.

Over 300 chest runs as in over 1000 chests opened in FoW. And believe me, the chest runs more than payed for themselves. This was back in the day before they increased the drop quality (pre factions) so that 14^50 was actually worth quite a bit. 15(stance) req8 went for around 100K. The 20(under 50) went for a good amount as well. Even the 15^50 req12 went for around 120K. My above mentioned drops were only the good chaos axe drops I got. I also got multiple fellblades, shadow bows, shadow shields (including a -2/-2 shield), shadow staffs, and tons of good mods that sold for quite a bit. Its a pity that none of these counted towards my treasure hunter title.

So if the odds of getting good drops is really as bad as you say, then me and other chest runners should have lost money over time, right? This wasn't the case as I made a huge profit with all of my chest runs. My chest runner friends who actually took the time to sell their items also made quite a bit.

Day 1 down on the 2 day "you can get anything on guru if you ask". All I have to say about that.

Of course you and your fellow chest runners are making money when you're selling that one extremely rare drop for hundreds of ectos. It sure as hell doesnt prove that getting good drops is common at all.

Sorry, I'm going to post without reading ALL of the posts, because there's just too much bickering.

So here's my 2 cents. Rare skins / loot are great to have and fun to obtain. But this new salvaging system WILL NOT ruin the economy nor will it completely destroy the value of those truely unique items. Here are my two reasons why.

1) Collector items - true they don't have the rare skins but they have perfect mods for what? 5 dropable items that you can prolly get from killing mobs on your way to the collector. Did these perfect, almost free weapons ruin the economy? No, they just allowed all players to have another item on the menu.
Sometimes I don't even think most people know about them, but more likelly they turn their nose up to them cause they want to be l33t.

2) Green items - Perfect Mods with unique skins. Again these items didn't ruin the economy, as it turned out it gave us all something else to farm. And gave us all many other builds to create (B/P groups for TotPK, solo W/N in SF, and too many to mention for Factions) Last time I checked the majority of these items are still selling for a decent amount of gold and will continue to do so.

So as some of the previous post have mentioned a new salvage system won't take away from the truely rare skins (Vertebreakers, Phoenix Blades, Zodiacs, etc) these you will still have to work for and thus will not crash the economy (unless your idea of a crashed economy is everything you own, now seems like you over paid for >_< doh). But now instead of farming/grinding elite quests/chest running X hundred times because the items that dropped for you just wasn't "perfect", you can take those 2 near perfects and make 1 perfect. Will this lower the value of that weapon? Yes in gold, but no in sentiment. Your just gonna have to say goodbye to those 100k + ectos items...unless they truely are uniquely rare like -2 stance -2 enchanted shields.

And lastly Anet please add an auction house (down with spam bots and time wasted WTS/WTB) give a list of competetive prices where I can get the best bang for my buck and a LFG window (ie EQ1 W/Mo Lfg THK, SF, Faction boss farming)...I know if you want GW you be like other games why don't you just play those other games...because I love GW and I want to improve MY selfish gaming experience.

I'm using different rare items with non-perfect stats like iridescent aegis req8 +27 always -5 20%.THOSE items will be crap after this update and I will lose 300k which I have spend for this shield.

...just because everyone will be able to upgrade a crappy iridescent aegis (my shield won't be such rare then anymore.)

So because you spent way too much money for an item then it means that ANET should never improve the salvaging system? Wow.

I think you have a misconception of the RPG genre. Lets set aside MMORPG's for a moment because numerous individuals in here have ranted about Guild Wars not being a MMORPG. Take almost any real RPG game and you will find the same pattern. The items you are talking about are rare items, not greens, collector items, or some kind of item that if you kill a certain boss, you will obtain without a doubt. There is a possibility that you could farm for 10,000 hours and still not see any of those items. Chances are that you will but its all about chance. Hence the reason why they are rare. This is one of the features that makes RPGs so appealing to many. If I wanted a game where everything was linear and that I could obtain everything and nothing was left to chance then I would be playing Prince of Persia or something similar. I've said it already but I will say it again. I think most people who play the game would agree with me that one of the appealing parts of Guild Wars is that in many ways, it is a non linear game. True, there is a weak storyline which Anet tries to get us to follow, but other than that, we get to pick and choose how we play Guild Wars.

There have been numerous pro-inscriptionists try to downplay my comparison of rare items to fame and rank. They've used the argument that rank and fame are set goals and that you will obtain them without a doubt. Obviously those people have very little experience in Heroes Ascent. There are times where you may go into Heroes Ascent and lose every single match you play. In other words, you can play for hours without obtaining a single point of fame. Or there are times where you go in and take Halls and rack up on the fame. Its chance what teams you'll be matched up against, the experience level of the opposing players and the countermeasures that your build has against their build. Obtaining rank 15 is by far, more difficult to obtain than any item in the game. Your chances of getting the items you mentioned are far greater than getting rank 15 with the same amount of effort put forth.

Going back to your list of items. That is quite a list. I have no doubt that if you gave me a week, I could obtain every item on that list. Since you are unwilling to swallow your pride and trade with others to obtain rare items, I'll just tell you flat out. Your list is based on wants, not needs. Collector items and greens will give you the same functionality as those items. Your own vanity is what drives you to want those items but refuse to trade with others.

Here's the computer I wanted to get:
Intel Core 2 Duo 6800
2 * ATI Radeon X1950 XTX Crossfire
Corsair XMS2 PC2 6400 (2 * 1 Gigabyte)
Asus P5B Deluxe Wifi-AP
Creative Labs Audigy 2 Platinum
Zalman CNPS9500 HSF
2 * WD Raptor 150GB

Here's the computer I ended up getting:
Intel Core 2 Duo 6400
ATI Radeon X850 XT
Corsair XMS2 PC6400 (2* 512)
Asus P5B Deluxe Wifi-AP
Zalman CNPS9500 HSF
2 * WD Raptor 36GB

Sometimes, we don't get exactly what we want. Learn to live with it, buddy. But you know what? The fact that we can't get everything in the game (and in life) is what makes things so interesting. The journey in obtaining things is where the fun comes from, not from owning everything and playing 'dress up' with our toons. You might disagree with this but deep down inside, this is probably true with 95% of the Guild Wars population.

Pretty much sums it all up, and I didn't have even say it.

If you truly believe in that philosophy, then you wouldnt have gotten so worked up about this rumoured upcoming change. I mean you're fighting tooth and nail over this change that would take something that YOU want.

So remind me to direct you back to your own quote when/if this all happens. Let's see how you take it then.

Really? GW seems very linear to me, especially the way they set up Factions (i'm hoping Nightfall will be different). I think its status as an 'RPG' is even questionable, but they do bill it as one, so I'm not going to argue about that.

For the millionth time:

Weapons and mods are part of actual gameplay. Fame and Rank are NOT.

And the new salvaging system isnt strictly to get rare items. The only people who keep ranting about rares are the anti-inscriptionists. Bottomline is that the proposed salvaging system is a more flexible system NOT just to get rares. It's only your narrowmindedness that cant get around that idea.

There have already been numerous posts by anti-inscriptionists with clear reasoning as to why the addition of inscriptions would be detrimental to the game and the players in the game. Since you have chosen to ignore those posts, it is not surprising that you don't understand my meaning.

As pointed out by another individual, if the majority of anti-inscriptionists who have posted in this thread were looking out for themselves, they would stand to gain the most by the addition of inscriptions as they would have more 15^50 mods, more rare skins, and more money to obtain every item they wanted to once inscriptions were added. Those in favor of inscriptions would take much longer to amass their collection of perfect weapons than many of those against it. The fact is, we aren't just in it for ourselves, but for everyone who plays the game. I can tell you with a straight face, hooked up to a polygraph, that the addition of inscriptions would hurt the game and the players in it. A small feature would be added to cater to a few people's vanity but the cost would be far too great to justify the gain.


I've already answered this. Weapons and mods are part of actual gameplay, skins are not. Ideas of additional collectors with more mod variation have already been proposed. I proposed the idea of weapon crafters who make customized collector weapons with inherent mods chosen by the player. This isn't good enough for you because you are in it for the skins, not for the gameplay. The accumulation of the things you have said up to this point confirms your primary interest in skins. Don't come out pretending to preach fair gameplay when your true intentions are so blatantly obvious.

The accumulation of the things you have said up this point confirms your primary interest is in having things that few others can get in order to feel "1337." I'm not trying to flame you, but I can't believe you go around saying the things you do, and then expect us to believe that you're trying to fight for the greater good.

A very long winded thread indeed. I'm just going to add a little bit about why adding collector and green items for every single possible combination is not going to happen. Be warned, math follows.

Let us look at shields as an example. We can have two mods on a shield and we can't have two of the same type except the damage reduction mods (excluding the unconditional one).

There are four different +hp mods, four different damage reduction mods, seven +armor vs damage type mods(piercing, etc.), eleven +armor vs. species mods, twenty +1 to attribute mods (includes ritualist), and finally eight reduce duration of a condition mods(no burning apparently). Effectively there are eighteen +armor mods as you can't have +armor vs a species and +armor vs a damage type. The rest I assume have no combining problems.

Now let us do the math part. I'll "pick" the first mod and then calculate all the combinations assuming the first one is chosen.

Mods involving +hp = 4(hp mods) * ( 4(damage reduction) + 18 (+armor mods) + 20 (+1 attribute) + 8 (conditon mods) ) = 200

Now we have to be careful to not double count our combinations, I've done all the ones involving +hp so I just need to calculate the other types with each other.

Mods involving +armor= 18 * ( 4 + 20 + 8 ) = 576

Mods involving +1attribute = 20 * ( 4 + 8 ) = 240

Mods involving reduce duration = 8 * 4 = 32

Mods involving reduce damage (that haven't been counted by combining with itself) = 3

Total number of shields = 200 + 576 + 240 + 32 + 3 = 1051

And that is why Anet should not make a collector or green for each combination. You can do a similar exercise with wands, focii, or staves if you want ( look up the combinations on wiki, I did) but that will be left as an exercise to the reader.

As you can see, adding the ability to remove inherent modifiers on shields, wands, focii, and staves and then applying them to an item of your choosing is in a word, necessary. You might then argue many of those combinations are junk, and so they are but they all have a potential use at some point in time (+1 attribute on a shield mods are probably by far the weakest IMHO).

Lord Sarevok:

I'll quote my previous post.

I always thought that the choices for end game greens in factions were crap, especially for rangers. If end game greens were something included in nightfall, I think making them customizable would be a very good option. They would still have a set skin but would be given the name "Leeroy Jenkin's Shield" to match the character's name.

And I have said time and time again that it's NOT all about the skins. The salvaging system ISNT just so that people can mod rare skins.

Outright lying. Or you have me confused with someone else. But regardless of what my interest is, the difference is that YOUR interests only benefits the few while pro-inscriptions benefit the majority.

By the way, the accumulation of the things YOU have said always point to your obvious self interests. How many times have you said that majority rules mean nothing? Or how many times have you said that not everyone should have a chance at getting what they want?

And remember your very arrogant post of telling people to "stop corrupting YOUR game and go play something else?" That one was classic.

If it is true that you aren't in it JUST for the skins, then why do you continue to dodge my questions? I've asked multiple times about the idea of customizable crafter items, greens, and the addition or more collector items. I believe it was you (although I could be mistaken) in another post that said something along the lines of:

"Why limit our options like this"

This isn't limiting, it is actually providing more gameplay options while keeping rare skins rare and as a result giving more options for more people.

Conclusion: You are in it for the skins. Period.

I remember a long time ago when Elite Skills were really hard to get due to the horrible capping system and disappearing bosses. At that time people were arguing that not everyone should get all Elite Skills because they were...."elite" The same arguments were made that "work" should be put in to get those skills. And yes, some even argued that you dont even need Elite skills to function. Luckily of course, ANET improved the skill capping system.

I see the same arguments against inscriptions here. I just have to shake my head.

Im not dodging anything. Most of your arguments are just plain silly. Stuff like the minority paying taxes and the majority leeching off the rich minority are arguments that I refuse to even address.

As for your collectors and greens arguments, many others have addressed it as well. Just take a look at Lord Saverok's post and you'll see how ridiculous and impractical it is to try to include items for every possible combination of mods out there.

However, your collector that crafts any mod for any item idea isnt bad. But it also seems you're not willing to compromise with the idea that there should be a better salvaging system but with rare drops being even more rare.

So it is YOU who is the one who is in it JUST for the skins.

Elites provide real benefit to gameplay. Skins do not. A green Wing's axe performs exactly the same as a 15^50 chaos axe with a +30 health and zealous mod. I wish the pro-inscriptionists would stop confusing functionality with vanity.

what people like this are trying desparately to preserve is i have it and you dont so i am superior to you.

it is not the gold it is the ability to look down on the *little people* who have not played the GAME *their way* and slaved for a year to afford nice things.

ANET/NCsoft has the logs of how the majority of people play the game and they are going for the most players who will return not the extreams of any stripe.

GOLD WARS is a *mini game* created by a tiny minority of players and ANET/NCsoft has decided their *self created mini game* is not beneficial to GW in general and is taking steps to remove it.

guild hall sig ?

runes in general?

sup absorb?

now top price weapons

tomorrow something else.

gold wars is ending

300k was NOT way too much for that shield because it IS/WAS very rare.

@winkgood & Zehnchu: live with the truth that you have to work for rare skins


TO WORK OR TO LUCKY FIND A RARE SKIN WAS ALWAYS PART OF A RPG !

Well, if they include inscriptions in nightfall, several things will happen:

1) Some of my items I worked hard to get for will be worth a lot less.
2) You idiots think r8 15>50 weapons or 15>50 inscriptions will be worth a lot. Initially they'll be worth a bit but the economy will completely bottom out.
3) Anet will risk either screwing up our entire economy or make inscriptioning difficult.

I think 15>50 inscriptions will be worth anywhere from 40 to 90k. Probably around 40 though, in the end.

There's been no clue to whether spellcaster items or shields will have inscriptions as well.

We also don't know the limit to inscriptions. That will drive up and down the value of inscriptions depending on the restrictions placed on them. By this I mean,
If i salvage a 15>50 inscription from a shortsword, can I use it only on other:
a) shortswords
b) swords
c) all melee weapons
d) all weapons period

Stuff like that will determine the ultimate pricing.

In the end I kind of want to care, because I spent a good deal of cash on my perfect broadswords and runic axes (all customized for pvp) but I suppose it's ok.

A lot of us power traders have at least a couple million in ectos/gold/what other items have you stored up, so if prices do bottom out, we're in luck, cause our dollar will go that much farther.

The rest of you poor people will do exactly the same thing the rest of the trading scrubs have been doing since GW started..scraping away at the bottom of the barrel. Except maybe you'll have a couple nice weapons so you can stop feeling inferior and disenfranchised.

I am pretty sure this will cause some hardcore pve'ers to quit, but that's expected with a change as major as this.

Also I don't expect ANET to be guaranteed to go with inscriptions. You saw what happened to our promised auction house. Been a year and we're still twiddling our penii's in our hands.

Guildwars Am Doom3d!

Grow up. Really.

BTW, I love the power trader name. That's funny. Power trading in a GAME where you constantly argue none of the things traded makes any difference anyway (which, realistically other than for enjoyement, is so true). lol

I need to grow up or you need to face the facts? Sorry, not everyone in life is going to mince with words, unless your mom and dad who apparently have gone to great lengths to not hurt your fragile ego.

Sorry, haven't lived at home in a long time. Unlike everyone you know, troll.

BTW, I'm one of the several million crowd and think it's a great idea. But then, I'm not a selfish immature fella who thinks my weapons in a game make me "leet".

Yeah, attack two lines of what I've said because a couple other lines cause you to grow sand in your taco =3.

Then again, I guess I hit a nerve eh? I wasn't even talking about you in particular but I guess we know you're a poor scrub who constantly made excuses to himself (herself? ..during menstruation, maybe) about how you couldn't be bothered to sell anything to get cool skins while the rest of us shut the hell up and did it.

But don't let it go to you. Just pull the troll card when you feel like you're outmatched, nub.

YunSooJin,

I totally agree with your stance but calling someone names isn't the best approach to proving your point.

This thread is a mix of logical theories and debate, and childish idiocy.

Nice to see that we can respond to a serious thread with childish name calling and insults good work ...........
Maybe just maybe we should get back to this issue at hand before the moderators close this thread....
Please , please dont allow this to happen..

But you ARE trolling. You've done nothing in this thread except to call people idiots and scrubs and nubs. In fact, this is in your first post:

Now stop trolling.

I’m surprised if A-net sees you guys still complaining and cut out the option all together; seeing how long this thread has gone so far (but I bet it has not broken the record yet). Anyways I can’t really see this as an illogical desperate act for help, but pleases, please, and more pleading do not take this feature out. Listen to the people if you must, but don’t dice something because the public can’t handle it. Sometimes it’s better to be innovative then be stale (really).