Titles With Effects: Good or Bad? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

inscribed

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 04:10 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Utterly against it - on the same grounds that everyone else's mentioning (the furtherance of the philosophy that grind > skill).

Not a dealbreaker by any means - we've already got the precedent of Candy Canes and +damage versus plants mods - but it's a Bad Thing (tm) not a Selling Point (tm).

Also, unlike (what I'll admit is) a fair proportion of the community, I find that the relative* seamlessness of the transition between PvE and PvP gameplay is one of the things that makes Guild Wars fun for me, and this weakens that.

*relative to other games

Right, because I know I couldn't get into any groups because I didn't have my supply of Candy Canes with me! Those damn elitists!

Seriously though, people complain about wanting more end game PvE material, and I think this is a great addition. When I beat the game and have all the skills capped for a character, I'll have something else to work on. Apologies if anyone gets upset that my warrior can deal a little more damage against demons.

edit: Have to mention making the titles account based once more.

Go back and make those Wisdom titles account based too! No reason not to, just going to save some of us from having to funnel large amounts of gold items to a single character. If you want to complain about grinding, complain about that grind.

Orbberius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

21 Oct 2006 at 04:24 - 122

I think this is pretty cool. Rewards hardcore PvE-grinders while not affecting PvPers. As someone who does more PvP than PvE, I don't really mind that PvE'ers are getting something they find cool. And I seriously doubt that this will cause uncontrolled elitism in PvE. There are already plenty of ways to be elitist in PvE, yet it rarely happens. The only major example I can think of is with Assassins, but that's a whole different story.

Mr Jazzy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Cali

Mending For The [win]

W/A

21 Oct 2006 at 04:45 - 124

i think the people praising this perk only play guild wars because they like no-monthly fees, and would rather play WoW if they had the money.

those who don't like the change truly love guild wars' concept, and pick it over WoW.

-.-

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 04:47 - 125

This is interesting, I welcome this bonus to titles.

Pkest

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Hooded Reavers of Eternal Life(Ankh)

R/

21 Oct 2006 at 04:50 - 126

While I like the idea of some titles giving some benefits, I must admit that I'll be pretty disappointed if the Lucky (afk) track becomes some sort of % chance for better drops.

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 05:05 - 127

Bad move. Will only encourage an already out of control economy. I bet this is to attract Asian markets again.

ValaOfTheFens

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Warrior Nation[WN]

21 Oct 2006 at 05:19 - 128

Sounds cool. Sadly, I'm not likely to achieve anything great in GW for some time. Upgrading my armor is taking longer than I thought. Then I have to decide which rune to keep and which to scrap and upgrade. I keep getting lost in The Wilds mission!! I can't kill that Justice fellow in Bloodstone Fen!! I swear I just have bad luck in the Jungle.

I wish there was a title for a n00b.

King's Spectre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Syracuse, NY, USA

The Amazon Basin (AB)

W/

21 Oct 2006 at 05:39 - 129

I know! Let's keep the game *exactly* the same forever! If anet keeps cranking out chapters just like the each other it will all be ok. Hmm.. where did all the customers go??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Yeah, that's call scamming and is reportable.

Reportable or not, the only time you care if you keep the weapon and the mod is if it's a pretty good weapon and mod to start with. You'd be stupid to trust some stranger spamming that he'll salvage items for XX gold with your valuable weapon.

An the other hand, assuming that there really is a chance of a salvage failure, an honest person would always be accused of scamming the customer when salvages do fail.

Either way, I just don't see a market for this other than guildies and friends helping each other out.

Zehnchu

Popcorn Fetish

Join Date: Dec 2005

[GODS]

Mo/Me

21 Oct 2006 at 05:52 - 130

This game has always been about balance and not giving people an advantage over others. Now that is thrown out screw everything else.

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

21 Oct 2006 at 05:57 - 131

Quote:

Also, unlike (what I'll admit is) a fair proportion of the community, I find that the relative* seamlessness of the transition between PvE and PvP gameplay is one of the things that makes Guild Wars fun for me, and this weakens that.

I'm sorry, I dont get this paragraph. How are things like Candy Canes, Salvaging mods without ruining weapons, etc ruining your transition to PvP? It isnt like I'm goin to UBERPWN you in GvG with my LEETSAUCE Salvaging skills or my fancy 15k/FoW armor >_>

Guinevere Ac

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Milano

21 Oct 2006 at 06:24 - 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop it Off

rofl, yay grinding.

now who wants to loan me like 12 mil for max wisdom and treasure titles

just a side note. doing wisdom and treasure hunter title PROFITED me 2.3-2.5milions. and i know other ppl that are doing wisdom and chests profiting, without wasting a single gold coin. u just need to know what to do.
find these titles-effects totaly cool. why some ppl is against this? because ppl may have a little advantage in pve?
are they gonna kill u faster in pvp? NO?
is it because u know u wont ever have such title and if u wont have such effects then noone has to take advantade of those? this is childish.
"i can't have a ferrari, then noone else should be able to buy it. close ferrari factories plz!"

Sid Soggybottom

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 06:40 - 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinevere Ac

is it because u know u wont ever have such title and if u wont have such effects then noone has to take advantade of those? this is childish.
"i can't have a ferrari, then noone else should be able to buy it. close ferrari factories plz!"

That's not it at all. I dont care what other people have. Or care what they can do. It's just that some of us are disappointed in GW's continuing direction of rewarding grind. This is moving away from the game that touted itself as getting rid of all form of grind.

Yes, I know that I dont NEED titles or the bonuses. Will the title bonuses be unbalancing? Most likely not. But as I said, this game is heading away from the casual player and more towards the hardcore play 24/7 crowd.

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

21 Oct 2006 at 06:45 - 134

Sorry I don't see this as Grind. As for the Lightbringer title I am sure this will be quest related to the game.

I think its a fun idea and I will only allow one of my 7 characters to ID gold items now.

Guardian of the Light

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Radicals Against Tyrants

W/

21 Oct 2006 at 06:47 - 135

I'm not involved in PvE as much as I used to but this title power thingy is complete crap.

Orginally people rejected the titles because they felt it would create elitism, Anet countered these arguements saying it would just be a way players would show off their accomplishments. Players accepted and no unroar was made.

Now they're adding special effects with titles?!! COME ON ANET!!! I know your better then this.

Scrap the idea plz.

Guinevere Ac

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Milano

21 Oct 2006 at 06:49 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

That's not it at all. I dont care what other people have. Or care what they can do. It's just that some of us are disappointed in GW's continuing direction of rewarding grind. This is moving away from the game that touted itself as getting rid of all form of grind.

Yes, I know that I dont NEED titles or the bonuses. Will the title bonuses be unbalancing? Most likely not. But as I said, this game is heading away from the casual player and more towards the hardcore play 24/7 crowd.

well after 18 months how do a.net think they can keep their pve player base? are they supposed to play the new expansion for 2 months then waiting the next one? playerbase would rapidly dissolve like this.
a.net had to give them something to do meanwhile. i dont see what's wrong in having a reward for someone's hard work. pvp already have this.
a guy doesnt want to work hard gaining a tiger? he probably wont be accepted in most of the best ha guilds.
a guy doesnt want to work hard gaining a given title. u're playing as always, your friend might have a smalla boost.

i seriously dont se the reason for all this mess

Doomlord_Slayermann

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Chicago IL

Dark Phoenix Risin [DPR]

W/P

21 Oct 2006 at 06:58 - 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinevere Ac

well after 18 months how do a.net think they can keep their pve player base? are they supposed to play the new expansion for 2 months then waiting the next one? playerbase would rapidly dissolve like this.
a.net had to give them something to do meanwhile. i dont see what's wrong in having a reward for someone's hard work. pvp already have this.
a guy doesnt want to work hard gaining a tiger? he probably wont be accepted in most of the best ha guilds.
a guy doesnt want to work hard gaining a given title. u're playing as always.

i seriously dont se the reason for all this mess

That's not really the best analogy. Rank implies quantity of HA play, not quality of HA play. The classic IWAY grindfest has made rank a lot less meaningful. HA Guilds will want to see that you have some experience, but if they know what they're doing they'll consider other criteria before rank.

Also, I want to note that ArenaNet is releasing chapters every 6 months, not every 18.

Third, I really want to know where the theory that there was supposed to be no grind in Guild Wars. Sure, ArenaNet promised that skill would be more important than how long you play, but that in no way says that grind would not exist.

gr3g

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 06:58 - 138

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

This game has always been about balance and not giving people an advantage over others. Now that is thrown out screw everything else.

You have a misconception about this game. It is about a level competitive playing field, not about "not giving people an advantage over others".

Guild NPCs give guilded players advantage over guildless players (access to ABs, weaponsmith)
Town control gives players in the controlling alliances an advantage over others (access to discount merchants and Elite Missions).
Favor of the Gods gives players in the territory with favor an advantage over other players (access to the Gods' realms and blessings).
People who don't farm a lot have an advantage over famers in drop rates in the farmed territories (note: widely believed to be true, though not verifiable from reliable sources).
Even something as basic as Ascension gives ascended characters an advantage over non-ascended characters (ability to enter Gods' realms).

The only thing you are guaranteed is a more or less level playing field in PvP where you can become competitive without months---or even weeks---of brainless grind. The mythical "grindless' Guild Wars has always been more hype than reality.

So you think characters with high Wisdom have an edge over others? I beg to differ. You will always get the mod you want, and the weapon that you might destroy in the process can be replaced with a crafter weapon which you can inscribe to your desired inherent mod. And if you don't care about re-salvaging your mods, you can use a collector weapon, which are effectively free. Yes, crafters and collectors don't make req 8 max damage weapons, but the effect of that is so minuscule that it is part of the noise.

The issue of titles with in-game effects is only worth getting incensed over when the effects are drastic. To give examples, I would consider any form of increased survivability for Survivors, or modified drop rates for the Lucky/Unlucky, or map-related benefits for Protectors/Cartographers to be drastic effects. These effects alter the importance of a player in a team---thus their chances of being recruited for parties---and therefore go against the principle of a level playing field. I trust ArenaNet not to add such effects.

daky

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

R/

21 Oct 2006 at 06:59 - 139

I think it would be great if you had ale hound and would just randomly trip...I know i personally would get a great laugh out of seeing some one running and just face planting on the ground.

dbf87

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 07:01 - 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinevere Ac

well after 18 months how do a.net think they can keep their pve player base? are they supposed to play the new expansion for 2 months then waiting the next one? playerbase would rapidly dissolve like this.
a.net had to give them something to do meanwhile. i dont see what's wrong in having a reward for someone's hard work. pvp already have this.
a guy doesnt want to work hard gaining a tiger? he probably wont be accepted in most of the best ha guilds.
a guy doesnt want to work hard gaining a given title. u're playing as always, your friend might have a smalla boost.

i seriously dont se the reason for all this mess

It's been like this for the last two campaigns and judging by the numbers(Nightfall WPE) there are more people playing than ever before. So why do you suddenly think that players will quit after 2 months if there is not a reward for grinding titles? I agree with alot of people in this thread in that this is moving away from what Guild Wars was originally intended to be. You are still on the same level with all other players no matter if you have grinded for thousands of hours or just picked up the game a week ago. It doesn't matter if it is only a small perk for having a max title, it's still a perk none the less, and one which rewards time played over skill.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

21 Oct 2006 at 07:03 - 141

Ya know, my first gut reaction to this was "Hell no!"

The more I think about it, I'm now in the "Meh." camp. I severely dislike the idea of grinding for any kind of benefit, as others have mentioned. However, just thinking about this has already given me a bit of motivation to actually acquire some titles.

Before this news, I couldn't care less about any of the titles (except for maybe survivor, gladiator, and champion), as I simply don't care for the gameplay it represents. This news is now giving me a reason to care. Sure, the grind itself is simply lame, but if I can acquire any number of titles by simply playing the game, and in the end I get benefits for that, then I would be pleased, I think.

Sure there are going to be people who, in essence, "pay" for their titles. This is no different than people who pay for runs, or various other services, except it's more of a money sink. They don't affect me, so I don't care. People who will only accept teammates with certain titles? We got heroes now. Screw 'em.

So, Meh. I'm on the fence with this.

Sasuke The Betrayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Los Angeles

Pink Pearl

Mo/Me

21 Oct 2006 at 07:14 - 142

Yea, same here as above. I just started raising my titles up a bit. Almost done with Tyria protector... darn Abbadon's Bonus is annoying.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

21 Oct 2006 at 07:15 - 143

When I heard about this I would have to admit that I was a little wary, but now... *shrug* There is no listing of HOW much more benefit these things will provide, so I think I'll fence sit a little while longer till I actually know how it is all going to work. Only 6 days anyway...

Sid Soggybottom

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 07:34 - 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinevere Ac

well after 18 months how do a.net think they can keep their pve player base? are they supposed to play the new expansion for 2 months then waiting the next one? playerbase would rapidly dissolve like this.
a.net had to give them something to do meanwhile. i dont see what's wrong in having a reward for someone's hard work. pvp already have this.
a guy doesnt want to work hard gaining a tiger? he probably wont be accepted in most of the best ha guilds.
a guy doesnt want to work hard gaining a given title. u're playing as always, your friend might have a smalla boost.

i seriously dont se the reason for all this mess

Sorry, but giving a cheap carrot on a stick gimmick that promotes grind doesnt save a game. If the playerbase does really fall for this gimmick then that's truly sad. If the playerbase can only play a new expansion for only 2 months before getting bored then there's something wrong with the game where gimmick title bonuses wont fix or there's something wrong with the playerbase.

Cheap stuff like this makes it become more about grinding away for the goal itself rather than the gameplay. I bet many of you who like this sort of thing dont even care for the gameplay anymore. It's just sort of a routine you have to do in order to reach that certain goal.

Anyway, this isnt a huge deal but it's sad to these title bonuses in a game like GW.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

21 Oct 2006 at 07:47 - 145

This is retarded scat imo.

AlienFromBeyond

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

W/

21 Oct 2006 at 07:51 - 146

All I have to say on the subject is that Survivor should sure as hell not have an effect. I already despise the title because I can't try and get it on old characters that I have an attachment to, adding gameplay effects would be ridiculous :/.

Zehnchu

Popcorn Fetish

Join Date: Dec 2005

[GODS]

Mo/Me

21 Oct 2006 at 08:02 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr3g

The issue of titles with in-game effects is only worth getting incensed over when the effects are drastic. To give examples, I would consider any form of increased survivability for Survivors, or modified drop rates for the Lucky/Unlucky, or map-related benefits for Protectors/Cartographers to be drastic effects. These effects alter the importance of a player in a team---thus their chances of being recruited for parties---and therefore go against the principle of a level playing field. I trust ArenaNet not to add such effects.

I can agree with that.

Quote:

One example of this new type of title is the Lightbringer. When displayed, this title gives you damage reduction and extra damage against demons. There will even be some PvE-only skills you can learn that become more powerful with each rank of the Lightbringer title.

But this too falls in the same category of the one’s you have listed.

Hanging up the phone on this one now
----------------------------------------------------------
But imo titles should have no affect on the game in anyway no matter how many max titles I have. It’s not going to increase the casual player’s time having to grind just to compete with other people to get into a group. It’s going to decrease time because who really wants to put up with anal elitism attitude.

You can throw all the real world vs game = truth mobo jumbo and over analyze everything you want, but what looks good on paper never is the same when applied.

Title are meaningless and they should remain that way.

Cowboy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Cornerstone [CRNR]

21 Oct 2006 at 08:34 - 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Strongly disagree, most of the good PVP players already have good titles so they would be happy about getting benefits for that.

Plus without that there would still be no reason for example for a Rank 9 guy to go get a Gladiator title since it would look way worse than the (9) of his Rank title.

Plus it's fundamentally unfair to give perks to PVE titles and not PVP titles, that's discrimination or something.

Hi, I know you probably mean well, but you could not be more wrong. I myself am fairly high ranked and I would surely not enjoy having an unfair advantage over any of my opponents in PvP. In fact it would ruin the game completely.

The major selling point for Guild Wars PvP is its balance and the fact that it hardly favors veterans players over new players, mechanics wise.

As an avid PvP player that also plays PvE sometimes I would enjoy getting a discount at the merchant or something so I can buy scrolls or keys cheaper. I am a Hero and a Champion yet I am very poor.

gr3g

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 08:44 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

I can agree with that. [...] But [Lightbringer] too falls in the same category of the one’s you have listed.

I was waiting for someone to raise the Lightbringer objection. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a bit worried by it. The only reason I'm not freaking out is that I expect the game will naturally raise Lightbringer ranks high enough by the time players start encountering demons that it will not be a huge issue. Kind of like how Sunspear ranks work.

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

21 Oct 2006 at 08:51 - 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr3g

I was waiting for someone to raise the Lightbringer objection. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a bit worried by it. The only reason I'm not freaking out is that I expect the game will naturally raise Lightbringer ranks high enough by the time players start encountering demons that it will not be a huge issue. Kind of like how Sunspear ranks work.

From Gaile's post here, it seems to be a storyline title.

Ellington

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

South Carolina

Sons of Zeus [ZEUS]

21 Oct 2006 at 09:01 - 151

In-game bonuses related to Lightbringer are fine in my opinion, as long as it comes naturally over the course of playing the campaign. Hopefully this will just be another sort of leveling up to do in Nightfall, reached in a reasonable amount of time by playing through the story, doing some sidequests, maybe farming just a little bit, etc.

That said, the idea of benefits related to other titles has me concerned. Something minor would be bearable; diminishing returns on title investment would go a long way to making this "okay". If Robert can get a 15% extra chance to salvage safely with his rank 3 Wisdom title but Wilhelm can get 10% with his rank 1, you know, that's alright I guess. That still leaves most of the bonus accessible to casual players.

If they overdo this title thing though, they can lose their niche. Guild Wars has always been sold as a fun action RPG with no strings attached, and no working in-game just so that you can have fun later. Take that away, and you lose your biggest selling point.

ShadowStorm

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Take me where I cannot stand.

The Better Part of Valor

W/N

21 Oct 2006 at 09:21 - 152

So what bonus is the survivor title going to give? An automatic Divine Intervention once per zone, higher tiers giving bigger health boost?

nugzta

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

21 Oct 2006 at 09:28 - 153

This only applies on some titles as GW Insider mentioned. I dont mind some more emotes for pvp titles other than /rank.

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

21 Oct 2006 at 09:32 - 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

(Also, what effect does Incorrible-Ale Hound give?

)

Ale-Hound: while displaying this title, all your characters disappear mysteriously on Friday. Wonder where they went, and find them singing 'Eye of the Tiger' near drinkmaster Tahnu's hut on Monday.

TheBaron82

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 09:43 - 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowStorm

So what bonus is the survivor title going to give? An automatic Divine Intervention once per zone, higher tiers giving bigger health boost?

Hehe how about at max survival. Your char have natural resistance.

Guinevere Ac

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Milano

21 Oct 2006 at 09:49 - 156

dont presume things that noone mentione from a.net side.
atm all we know is that sunspear-lightbringer titles (where lightbringer is well thought to be the natural evolution of the sunspear title) aswell as wisdom title offer some bonus.
survivor and anything else are not mentioned.
tho if u need sunspear and lightbringer ranks to unlock primary quests then those 2 titles aren't giving any real boost as anyone playing the game will have them.

it's just 6 days, wait and see what happens be4 start bitching

ForgeWhelp

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

TGW

N/Mo

21 Oct 2006 at 10:18 - 157

Just putting in my opinion, for what it's worth. I see it like anything in the game. It's something that someoen else has and you want. Be it a crystaline sword or what ever. But you have to work for it, in some form. Just because it's better than what I got doesn't make it bad. It's just another goal to work towards. It's a perk, not a show stopper.

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

21 Oct 2006 at 10:43 - 158

One day i'll vomit right away when i have to read that stupid Grind versus Skill Argument again. It's ridiculous how it is used for EVERY (yes.. EVERY) discussion. And astonishingly enough, both sides use it. It doesn't prove anything, it doesn't make a point, it's a worthless argument. Stop using it and instead bring real arguments.

Clord

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Finland

Victory Via Valour

21 Oct 2006 at 11:09 - 159

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

The truth is, they will.
Examples:
-certain farming guilds won't allow people in unless they have friend of luxons/kurzicks
-most pvp HA groups or guilds won't let people join unless they're certain rank or above
-some successful mission+bonus groups require the player to show some sort of title proving (maybe mapping, or other protector title) that they know what they're doing
-almost all groups discriminate against assassins and mesmers because of their skillset and lack of damage/tanking in pve

If a person with a certain title gets to deal more damage than another, the other will be seen as inferior (kind of like assassin to a tank, or mesmer to an echo nuker) and not accepted into some groups. Just being able to show titles is already causing discrimination, and allowing the titles to have effects will cause even more discrimination. Too bad for starters, eh?

You forgot.
- You play in American Server.

European server. Was it mission or AB etc I have no problem to find PUG party fast and join to it. Nobody ask anyone else's buid usually etc.

Sectus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Miss Meow Meow's Guild

21 Oct 2006 at 11:22 - 160

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

One day i'll vomit right away when i have to read that stupid Grind versus Skill Argument again. It's ridiculous how it is used for EVERY (yes.. EVERY) discussion. And astonishingly enough, both sides use it. It doesn't prove anything, it doesn't make a point, it's a worthless argument. Stop using it and instead bring real arguments.

It's a very important argument since it's one of the primary goals with Guild Wars. Anet has promised all along that Guild Wars is supposed to be based on skill and not time spent playing.

Unfortunately, additions like Titles you need to grind to attain goes against this. Additions like gameplay bonuses for having grind-based Titles makes it a lot worse, since it gives a distinct advantage to those who grind.

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

21 Oct 2006 at 11:27 - 161

It is not a very important argument if it is used to bombard every single change that happens in GuildWars. Yep. It is used to do so. Just look at the suggestions forum. Just look at every single thread here. It's used as the "one counter to ignore them all" argument.
Bring up some arguments that can hold its own, that have a background behind it. Bring something new instead of stalling the discussion before it even started. That is what you do when you call the "mighty" grind argument. You do not add new insights but instead hammer on that one sentence on the package of GuildWars and expect everyone else to just stfu simply because you pointed at the "allmighty" grind argument.

Once that certain argument is brought up, the discussion can only go down the drain and will sooner or later result in a flamewar. I don't care if you're right or not, but simply just don't bring that one stupid worthless argument.

And as i allready said, it is even used to support the changes in GuildWars. Every side uses it and all they do is argue who is allowed to use it.
Thus, the point this so called argument has is void. It's extremely overused, lessening its importance more and more and more.