Lightbringer Procession - Note: AFK Farming/Exploit Has been Removed
aohige
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
These builds look like fun, but I'm wondering if AN class this as botting. I know people went AFK in 9 rings but this may alert the AN bot detectors. Dunno, just thought I'd gauge people views.
They could call it an "exploit", but they can't call it "botting" when it uses no outside resources, only in-game features.
Hence, the only thing they could do at this point is to patch it so it's not possible anymore.
Easiest way to do this, IMO, is to have diffrent set of address ready for the cloned mobs. They'd have the same name, same features, same characteristcs as Abaddon's servant, but do not register as "torment creatures".
So let's say "Spear of Torment" is creature E37B01.
Create a "Spear of Torment" creature E37BA1, and when E37B01 uses the "Call of Torment", it doesn't summon a E37B01, it summons a E37BA1.
To the player, you couldn't tell the diffrence, but the latter one does not give lightbringer points, exp, and has no drops.
Hence, the only thing they could do at this point is to patch it so it's not possible anymore.
Easiest way to do this, IMO, is to have diffrent set of address ready for the cloned mobs. They'd have the same name, same features, same characteristcs as Abaddon's servant, but do not register as "torment creatures".
So let's say "Spear of Torment" is creature E37B01.
Create a "Spear of Torment" creature E37BA1, and when E37B01 uses the "Call of Torment", it doesn't summon a E37B01, it summons a E37BA1.
To the player, you couldn't tell the diffrence, but the latter one does not give lightbringer points, exp, and has no drops.
Juicey Shake
I'm doing the 1,010 / hr right now with spears of torment -- it's nice once you set it up and in THEORY should never break away, because the spears are all in view of my monk but DO NOT have line of site..
and don't credit me for the idea, it all came to me from "Methredhel Tilaedru" who told me how he had tested it with warrior's using burning speed.. etc [he said burning speed would break aggro after a while =(] & if you want to thank methredhel, please do so by helping him with armor pieces from the desolation challenge mission ^^
if anyone needs help, I'll be back from class + done with gvg around 1 AM PST and on for a couple of hours [just pm Annette Landru -- my pve ranger] and I'll try to set it up for you =)
You CAN have someone else set up the afk farming build for you, but their flags are not permanent in that-- if you do not move, the heroes stay, functioning as you do, but if you run off, sometimes they get jerky and break away from their flagpoints >_<.
I HIGHLY suggest you use mending on both of the rangers as the bleeding from the spears may become trouble, somehow... I maintain an extra life bond on both rangers, a life bond on tahlkora, balth spirit on myself, and mending on all 4 of us.
and don't credit me for the idea, it all came to me from "Methredhel Tilaedru" who told me how he had tested it with warrior's using burning speed.. etc [he said burning speed would break aggro after a while =(] & if you want to thank methredhel, please do so by helping him with armor pieces from the desolation challenge mission ^^
if anyone needs help, I'll be back from class + done with gvg around 1 AM PST and on for a couple of hours [just pm Annette Landru -- my pve ranger] and I'll try to set it up for you =)
You CAN have someone else set up the afk farming build for you, but their flags are not permanent in that-- if you do not move, the heroes stay, functioning as you do, but if you run off, sometimes they get jerky and break away from their flagpoints >_<.
I HIGHLY suggest you use mending on both of the rangers as the bleeding from the spears may become trouble, somehow... I maintain an extra life bond on both rangers, a life bond on tahlkora, balth spirit on myself, and mending on all 4 of us.
aohige
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicey Shake
I'm doing the 1,010 / hr right now with spears of torment -- it's nice once you set it up and in THEORY should never break away, because the spears are all in view of my monk but DO NOT have line of site..
and don't credit me for the idea, it all came to me from "Methredhel Tilaedru" who told me how he had tested it with warrior's using burning speed.. etc [he said burning speed would break aggro after a while =(] & if you want to thank methredhel, please do so by helping him with armor pieces from the desolation challenge mission ^^
if anyone needs help, I'll be back from class + done with gvg around 1 AM PST and on for a couple of hours [just pm Annette Landru -- my pve ranger] and I'll try to set it up for you =)
You CAN have someone else set up the afk farming build for you, but their flags are not permanent in that-- if you do not move, the heroes stay, functioning as you do, but if you run off, sometimes they get jerky and break away from their flagpoints >_<.
I HIGHLY suggest you use mending on both of the rangers as the bleeding from the spears may become trouble, somehow... I maintain an extra life bond on both rangers, a life bond on tahlkora, balth spirit on myself, and mending on all 4 of us. Hey Juicey, it just occured to me.....
Why not have the henchies heal the other ranger?
Group 1: bonding monk hero & R/N hero
Use the alter wall to keep monk safe
Group 2: your character bond/life barrier another R/N hero
Use diffrent wall to keep yourself and 2 monk henchies away from line of fire, or use the dip near Palawa Yoko's statue. Bring ranged henchies so they don't go out to fight.
I found several spots where you could hide monks, and have a melee attack the spear away from the alter... this should be a LOT easier to set up than having one monk hero and two rangers on each side
gonna try it with my monk, after hitting 50k on my W =3
and don't credit me for the idea, it all came to me from "Methredhel Tilaedru" who told me how he had tested it with warrior's using burning speed.. etc [he said burning speed would break aggro after a while =(] & if you want to thank methredhel, please do so by helping him with armor pieces from the desolation challenge mission ^^
if anyone needs help, I'll be back from class + done with gvg around 1 AM PST and on for a couple of hours [just pm Annette Landru -- my pve ranger] and I'll try to set it up for you =)
You CAN have someone else set up the afk farming build for you, but their flags are not permanent in that-- if you do not move, the heroes stay, functioning as you do, but if you run off, sometimes they get jerky and break away from their flagpoints >_<.
I HIGHLY suggest you use mending on both of the rangers as the bleeding from the spears may become trouble, somehow... I maintain an extra life bond on both rangers, a life bond on tahlkora, balth spirit on myself, and mending on all 4 of us. Hey Juicey, it just occured to me.....
Why not have the henchies heal the other ranger?
Group 1: bonding monk hero & R/N hero
Use the alter wall to keep monk safe
Group 2: your character bond/life barrier another R/N hero
Use diffrent wall to keep yourself and 2 monk henchies away from line of fire, or use the dip near Palawa Yoko's statue. Bring ranged henchies so they don't go out to fight.
I found several spots where you could hide monks, and have a melee attack the spear away from the alter... this should be a LOT easier to set up than having one monk hero and two rangers on each side
gonna try it with my monk, after hitting 50k on my W =3
LoKi Foxfire
Haha, I got a memory error after like 5 hours. It seems that I killed so many that the game ran both my conventional and page file memory out. I got an error with arrays.cpp even! XD
I was getting about 900 LB per hour with 1 Spear of Torment and 1 Scythe of Chaos.
I was getting about 900 LB per hour with 1 Spear of Torment and 1 Scythe of Chaos.
-.-
Really? I'm still going strong for like 9 hours, course I had to zone in and out because I tried to split the Torments into two groups after like 5 hours.
ekamdu
ive been trying for houres or so... but how the hell, once you got one spear of torment, do you get your hero in and bonded without him dying? i just cant do it :S so friggin annoying
edit---
btw, on what groups do you do this? outside where? show me screenshots please cos this aint working at all what im trying now :S
edit---
btw, on what groups do you do this? outside where? show me screenshots please cos this aint working at all what im trying now :S
GranDeWun
I've got it working well with Spears; R/Ns with swords...I don't know if I can ever be bothered to set up 2 groups again, though.
BTW, after 10 hours ANet boots you with err=059
BTW, after 10 hours ANet boots you with err=059
aohige
Update: success!
Easily managed to have the hench heal one of the R/N in very separated group.
This was much easier than trying to pull two mobs towards one monk without getting the monk hit.
Group One:
Tahlkora is behind the alter wall, safe from the spear's attacks, have Jin enchanted and keeps her alive.
Group Two:
I have Margrid enchanted with just Life Bond and Life Barrier,
and the two monk henchies keep her alive.
All the henchies are ranged, and behind that wall, so their attacks don't hit the spears, and spears can't hit them.
You can see the radar as to where they are located.
This is VERY easy to setup, and don't have to worry about monk positions much at all
It's only been 30min since I set it up, but they don't seem to have any problem keeping Margrid alive.
So far, the average is about 1k/h, as expected (seeing one R/N farms about 500/h, it makes sense)
Easily managed to have the hench heal one of the R/N in very separated group.
This was much easier than trying to pull two mobs towards one monk without getting the monk hit.
Group One:
Tahlkora is behind the alter wall, safe from the spear's attacks, have Jin enchanted and keeps her alive.
Group Two:
I have Margrid enchanted with just Life Bond and Life Barrier,
and the two monk henchies keep her alive.
All the henchies are ranged, and behind that wall, so their attacks don't hit the spears, and spears can't hit them.
You can see the radar as to where they are located.
This is VERY easy to setup, and don't have to worry about monk positions much at all
It's only been 30min since I set it up, but they don't seem to have any problem keeping Margrid alive.
So far, the average is about 1k/h, as expected (seeing one R/N farms about 500/h, it makes sense)
Juicey Shake
ah nice! that is a MUCH more reliable method, if 1 group were to wipe the other could remain stable.. thanks =)
-.-
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranDeWun
I've got it working well with Spears; R/Ns with swords...I don't know if I can ever be bothered to set up 2 groups again, though.
BTW, after 10 hours ANet boots you with err=059
Not true, I been afk for like 11 hours so far.
I finally error'd 59 at 16 hours I think.
BTW, after 10 hours ANet boots you with err=059
I finally error'd 59 at 16 hours I think.
Cyan The Archer
aohige, ah thanks for the build Will try when i get home from school(Dont ask me why im sitting at a forum instead of working - I have an err... good explanation).
Rah Balder
Ugh.. Got meself an error 059 aswell. After 9 hours or sumthing (was asleep so not sure)
Also it seems to be much faster to do 2 groups of Scythes than Spears. I neva got over 1k LBP a hour with Spears but easy over 1k LBP with Scythes. Oh well. Back to 'afk'
Also it seems to be much faster to do 2 groups of Scythes than Spears. I neva got over 1k LBP a hour with Spears but easy over 1k LBP with Scythes. Oh well. Back to 'afk'
Cyan The Archer
All right im home now and am doing what aohige posted.. This method is SO MUCH easier(Else i was just lucky with the Spears ). I even saw Tahlkora doing the /yawn emote xD I am a bit worried about the healing though..
Kelv
How do you lure the spears so they sit on the edge? they always go out for me
fog_of_redoubt
My biggest problem is killing the rest of the group with this build. I bring Healer, War, Derv, Mes or Paragon as Henchies... and end up with lots o DP killing the group.
aohige
Woot
Yeah, cleaning up the mobs at the start could get a little hard, depending on their setup.
Luckily, I was doing it as a War, so firepower wasn't an issue, especially with lightbringer on.
Kill the Herald of Nightmares first, and put the bonds up on monk.
Kill Rain of Terror next, and try to interrupt his blurr vision.
Proceed to Scythe of Chaos, as it deals the most damage.
Although Shadow of Fear will raise a lot of jagged horror while you do this, they are hardly a threat.
Clean up Shadow of Fear, damage the Spear half way, then run off as he call to torment.
If there are any Jagged Horrors around left, they'll engage him in fight when he comes out, making the aggro-breaking easier.
Yeah, cleaning up the mobs at the start could get a little hard, depending on their setup.
Luckily, I was doing it as a War, so firepower wasn't an issue, especially with lightbringer on.
Kill the Herald of Nightmares first, and put the bonds up on monk.
Kill Rain of Terror next, and try to interrupt his blurr vision.
Proceed to Scythe of Chaos, as it deals the most damage.
Although Shadow of Fear will raise a lot of jagged horror while you do this, they are hardly a threat.
Clean up Shadow of Fear, damage the Spear half way, then run off as he call to torment.
If there are any Jagged Horrors around left, they'll engage him in fight when he comes out, making the aggro-breaking easier.
Senator Tom
@fog of redoubt, two monk henchies, warrior/derv hench, and sologon or something
also Juicey i think your build would be sped up a lot if you let the hench take a spear too along with the two rangers (even though you're probably at 50k already :P)
also Juicey i think your build would be sped up a lot if you let the hench take a spear too along with the two rangers (even though you're probably at 50k already :P)
ekamdu
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige
Woot
Yeah, cleaning up the mobs at the start could get a little hard, depending on their setup.
Luckily, I was doing it as a War, so firepower wasn't an issue, especially with lightbringer on.
Kill the Herald of Nightmares first, and put the bonds up on monk.
Kill Rain of Terror next, and try to interrupt his blurr vision.
Proceed to Scythe of Chaos, as it deals the most damage.
Although Shadow of Fear will raise a lot of jagged horror while you do this, they are hardly a threat.
Clean up Shadow of Fear, damage the Spear half way, then run off as he call to torment.
If there are any Jagged Horrors around left, they'll engage him in fight when he comes out, making the aggro-breaking easier. grats, but can you tell me, after you got those 2 spear guys, how to get them in that setup without your heroes dying?
ive got my heroes set up this way:
Koss, Goren: lv 20 W/N
weapon: Chor's Axe
(going to farm a shield for him today)
skills:
Penetrating Blow
Penetrating Chop
Dismember
Excecutioners strike (or something like that)
Triple Chop{E} (mostly for adrenaline build up)
Watch Yourself
Lions Comfort
Res Sig
attributes:
axe:11
strength:10
tactics:10
(no runes whatsoever, cos i actually want the title on my monk but im just trying it out cheap way)
ive got more or less the same for Margrid The Sly (R/W), also chor's axe and same skills, but she cant have strenght so i maxed axe and tactics to 12
anyway, please tell me how to get one of your heroes actually fighting... i tried it several times but the morons just die
Yeah, cleaning up the mobs at the start could get a little hard, depending on their setup.
Luckily, I was doing it as a War, so firepower wasn't an issue, especially with lightbringer on.
Kill the Herald of Nightmares first, and put the bonds up on monk.
Kill Rain of Terror next, and try to interrupt his blurr vision.
Proceed to Scythe of Chaos, as it deals the most damage.
Although Shadow of Fear will raise a lot of jagged horror while you do this, they are hardly a threat.
Clean up Shadow of Fear, damage the Spear half way, then run off as he call to torment.
If there are any Jagged Horrors around left, they'll engage him in fight when he comes out, making the aggro-breaking easier. grats, but can you tell me, after you got those 2 spear guys, how to get them in that setup without your heroes dying?
ive got my heroes set up this way:
Koss, Goren: lv 20 W/N
weapon: Chor's Axe
(going to farm a shield for him today)
skills:
Penetrating Blow
Penetrating Chop
Dismember
Excecutioners strike (or something like that)
Triple Chop{E} (mostly for adrenaline build up)
Watch Yourself
Lions Comfort
Res Sig
attributes:
axe:11
strength:10
tactics:10
(no runes whatsoever, cos i actually want the title on my monk but im just trying it out cheap way)
ive got more or less the same for Margrid The Sly (R/W), also chor's axe and same skills, but she cant have strenght so i maxed axe and tactics to 12
anyway, please tell me how to get one of your heroes actually fighting... i tried it several times but the morons just die
Alleji
Do you get drops from cloned mobs too?
(If so, shouldn't you have a bunch of gold items on the ground after 12 hours of afking? <.<)
(If so, shouldn't you have a bunch of gold items on the ground after 12 hours of afking? <.<)
bamm bamm bamm
Nope.
Chronos the Defiler
i did this...and am taking 2 groups of Spears.....
It is actually rather easy, i take the 2 Healer Hench, 2 warriors heroes, and the bonder, with Cynn and the Motivation Hench (me as a warrior)
Very easy to clean up the mobs, no DP, then instead of damaging the Spear then running...just send your group back to the portal and distract the spear yourself....then use a running skill to break its aggro and it will remain in its area. (im a warrior with shock and stonefist gaunts so that is also a great way to prevent him from following)
do this for the group on the other side as well, then bond up one warriors, send him directly to the spear and let him do his thing.....when the bonder has enough energy from essense then bond the other warrior and send him to the other spear.....with the spears way out there and you are near the portal so there isnt a way the spears will break from the warriors and attack you or your bonder...just keep them a good distance away and your golden.
It is actually rather easy, i take the 2 Healer Hench, 2 warriors heroes, and the bonder, with Cynn and the Motivation Hench (me as a warrior)
Very easy to clean up the mobs, no DP, then instead of damaging the Spear then running...just send your group back to the portal and distract the spear yourself....then use a running skill to break its aggro and it will remain in its area. (im a warrior with shock and stonefist gaunts so that is also a great way to prevent him from following)
do this for the group on the other side as well, then bond up one warriors, send him directly to the spear and let him do his thing.....when the bonder has enough energy from essense then bond the other warrior and send him to the other spear.....with the spears way out there and you are near the portal so there isnt a way the spears will break from the warriors and attack you or your bonder...just keep them a good distance away and your golden.
Senator Tom
hopefully this will clear up any positioning questions about the build that Juicey provided. thanks again to juice for explaining the positioning for me last ngiht
Cyan The Archer
Senator, you could have used your hench to afk-farm a Spear of Torment aswell. This is not easy though, because there is a chance that it will go for your heroes because of patrol.
Senator Tom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyan The Archer
Senator, you could have used your hench to afk-farm a Spear of Torment aswell. This is not easy though, because there is a chance that it will go for your heroes because of patrol.
i usually do that but in those pics i had two other people afking with me.
LoKi Foxfire
Quote:
XoNe
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoKi Foxfire
It seems that all of us who are farming Lightbringer points are going to get access into the new 'bonus' area. :]
I hope from what i think that means is you need rank 8 LB to access this area and from the gems stand point new armor worth more then 15k inside to the one who make it to that point.
I hope from what i think that means is you need rank 8 LB to access this area and from the gems stand point new armor worth more then 15k inside to the one who make it to that point.
Juicey Shake
I don't suggest having the henchies AFK a spear group as the risk of overflow from it reaching your setup just isn't worth it for an extra 200p/hr
oh, and I woke up to this:
no more blessings but I haven't done any of the lightbringer point awarding quests except for 3 or 4, so =)
oh, and I woke up to this:
no more blessings but I haven't done any of the lightbringer point awarding quests except for 3 or 4, so =)
gwhobo
I can't seem to be able to position the Rangers right with the scythes...anyways I'm willing to pay someone to teach me how or to simply let me pay them to go afk farm With them...You will receive payment After I have learned to do it a couple of times or if I'm going to do it with you and you set everything up, you will receive payment after you set them up.
Wilhelm
Juicey, I saw you around 4pm eastern time dancing in the doorway at the Gate. Grats on the title.
Now if only these error 059 would go away for a night, I'd have it as well.
Now if only these error 059 would go away for a night, I'd have it as well.
ekamdu
yay its working! though i only got one R/N now, cos i think splitting will destroy everything ive been working on for 2 whole days, but its working!
i'd love to try this out with some1 else, for example, 4 R/N, 2 Monks, me and the other guy thats 2k LB points an hour
EDIT
ehh... i take that back i died... i guess those shadow of fear with their disease + poison + bleeding is just too much
anyway, i set it up differently this time, and with spears and its working pretty well
EDIT 2
ahh damn i screwed up again :S took me almost an hour (!!!!) to get it set up again :S anyway, its going now, only 1 R/N, and thats fine by me!
i'd love to try this out with some1 else, for example, 4 R/N, 2 Monks, me and the other guy
thats 2k LB points an hour EDIT
ehh... i take that back
anyway, i set it up differently this time, and with spears
and its working pretty well EDIT 2
ahh damn i screwed up again :S took me almost an hour (!!!!) to get it set up again :S anyway, its going now, only 1 R/N, and thats fine by me!
BlackRecluse
wow, everytime i go out i get completely RAPED. this is incredibly frustrating
Evilsod
I tried the R/N build earlier (except only with 1 set of Spears, the 2nd group kept buggering everything up when i tried to position it).
I thought i'd try it out with Well of Suffering too, it definatly does help, an extra -5 degen on all of the Spears, i'm just not sure if its making it slightly too potent and will instead make me end up killing 1 at a time again. I'm likely to err7 again by tomorrow morning... but we'll see how it goes.
The only problem i have atm is they seem to be completely ignoring Marge and Jin and trying to attack through the wall at us. So our bonder and the heros are losing out on alot of energy.
I thought i'd try it out with Well of Suffering too, it definatly does help, an extra -5 degen on all of the Spears, i'm just not sure if its making it slightly too potent and will instead make me end up killing 1 at a time again. I'm likely to err7 again by tomorrow morning... but we'll see how it goes.
The only problem i have atm is they seem to be completely ignoring Marge and Jin and trying to attack through the wall at us. So our bonder and the heros are losing out on alot of energy.
-.-
Well of Suffering kills them too fast.
jinkas
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRecluse
wow, everytime i go out i get completely RAPED. this is incredibly frustrating
For people who have never played a bonder before, one clarification to Juicy Shake's guide on page 14: When you have your monk bond up the rangers, make sure you hit Life Barrier THEN Life Bond (not Life Bond and then Life Barrier, like the guide implies). Bond + Barrier = dead monk, but Barrier + Bond = 0 damage to the monk.
Other than that I see nothing tricky. Positioning can be tough, but stick with it and things will work out; don't just try one method and give up, but keep using those flags and running your heroes around until everything is where you want it to be. That guide is great and it's going to get me to Holy Lightbringer (34k at the moment, but Margrid and Jin are each tanking 7 Spears, so that number will keep going up!). Thanks!
Other than that I see nothing tricky. Positioning can be tough, but stick with it and things will work out; don't just try one method and give up, but keep using those flags and running your heroes around until everything is where you want it to be. That guide is great and it's going to get me to Holy Lightbringer (34k at the moment, but Margrid and Jin are each tanking 7 Spears, so that number will keep going up!). Thanks!
disket
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I woke up today with this and it gives me KoaBD as well
Now time to work on hugging Elonian walls :P
Now time to work on hugging Elonian walls :P
LoKi Foxfire
A quick question: Do you guys keep Guild Wars minimized or do you leave it open in the window? I keep getting crashes or out of memory errors if I minimize it or try to maximize after 5 hours or so. Also, if I look at the memory usage by GW when it's minimized, I can see that it constantly keeps going up and up. People in town have gotten these errors too.
My question for the people AFKing all night: Do you leave it running in fullscreen?
My question for the people AFKing all night: Do you leave it running in fullscreen?
disket
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoKi Foxfire
A quick question: Do you guys keep Guild Wars minimized or do you leave it open in the window? I keep getting crashes or out of memory errors if I minimize it or try to maximize after 5 hours or so. Also, if I look at the memory usage by GW when it's minimized, I can see that it constantly keeps going up and up. People in town have gotten these errors too.
My question for the people AFKing all night: Do you leave it running in fullscreen? I leave mine on Window mode, not minimized. I find that after long hours of staying in minimized mode, it takes quite some time to get it restored. Sometimes It doesn't restore at all lol. So I just leave it in window mode and if I need to do other stuff just let it run in the background.
My question for the people AFKing all night: Do you leave it running in fullscreen? I leave mine on Window mode, not minimized. I find that after long hours of staying in minimized mode, it takes quite some time to get it restored. Sometimes It doesn't restore at all lol. So I just leave it in window mode and if I need to do other stuff just let it run in the background.
-.-
Hm, I should try that. It should solve my problem whenever I minimize it to read the Forums and such.
aohige
For those people that asked me about how to split up the two groups, I took a video recording of my current monk run. Will put them up in the morning on youtube
Once you get used to it, my method is actually quite easy.
(which puts the two groups very far apart, barely in the radar range)
If you're VERY good, you can do what Senator Tom suggested and have two groups both at the three heroes, and a THIRD group with just henchies.
It takes a lot of patience, skill, and luck, and does have dangers of overflowing on the henchie side, so I wouldn't recommend it as a "safe" farming though. However, it does theoretically give you the highest amount of points, probably in the 1200/h range.
Once you get used to it, my method is actually quite easy.
(which puts the two groups very far apart, barely in the radar range)
If you're VERY good, you can do what Senator Tom suggested and have two groups both at the three heroes, and a THIRD group with just henchies.
It takes a lot of patience, skill, and luck, and does have dangers of overflowing on the henchie side, so I wouldn't recommend it as a "safe" farming though. However, it does theoretically give you the highest amount of points, probably in the 1200/h range.
TechnoSword
I was so happy the other day when i finally had it set up with 2 rangers on each side with a monk in the middle. and then 1 scythe slipped out of the way and attacked my monk who ran away which caused everything to collapse in one fell swoop. =( so usually i just stick to henchies on spear of torment and ranger on the scythes