AI Changes for monster/henchmen 10/31..for the worse?

Yeah because sarcasm is always so obvious in text. Especially in attempts at bad humour. And no, it didnt go over my head, I knew what point you were making and I addressed it. Maybe you should learn to read and go back and read my post again.

lol, read my post, i wasnt replying to u, i was replying to the original poster. SunJin or w/e. lol, dont get worked up over somethin that wasnt addressed to u. I throw in a little comedy and ppl start flaming each other. come on, its a forum, not a boxing ring.

Ahh my bad. I apologize. It's getting confusing who was replying to who and who you were talking about. You're right, everyone's getting too worked up including me.

hehe its koo, only im getting worked up over is i just spent the last 10 minutes or so chasing after this Kournan priest that kept running around the castle where Koss was held captive. it was ridiculous. Wish i brought hamstring that last 33% longer w/ my sword. O well.

The new AI sux big time. Henchies have become stupid and monsters have become way too hard to deal with for characters of the level for the missions. It has become mandatory for new players to get big experienced players to go with them. New players will not enjoy the game at all. I am an intermediate player and I find the changes extremely frustrating. Seriously considering switching to WOW, and have put purchaseing nightfall on hold.

Henchman are hard to use, but still they are sometimes better than most of the noobs out there. I tend to use henchman more often as they follow orders, even better with the new system.

Will someone tell me why in the Court mission the hero's are going after the rifts without any flags, or calling telling them to do so? Because they are just going to aggro even though me and my teammate are telling them to stay in the center.

Okay, enough drama, this has been going on for long enough.

We need something official from ANet, other than them just calling us drama queens.

Drama queens we may be, but still the drama queens playing their game.

Well we beat it, but I had to use henchies, because hero's are tards. I also seen Eve cancelling her rez sig 15 times. I also seen dunkoro cancel his heal touch. FIX IT ANET. You've had more than enough time now, f everything else fix this damn glitchy AI.

Sorry for my outburst.

and don't forget, the drama queens are feeding their families with their purchase... Customer Relations 101?

I still laugh at reading back at Nightfalls release, the only unhappy people were the heavy farmers as the AI then stopped the usual farming. Everyone else seemed to rejoice the improved AI and NF release (yea, it wasn't perfect, but miles better than what we have now). It was grand! Halloween, NF and better AI; white dyes and more. Awesome. Then the AI was changed and we get stuck with the worst AI I've seen in decades. We are then told the "praised" AI was a bug; and we are being dramatic as we watch the AI run in circles trying to figure out where they can attack without getting touched.

Judging from your statement, you skipped over the entire conversation. Basically he states that he is unwilling to change to adapt to a nearly static environment. This kind of person is the type that will cause pug wipeouts repeatedly, because they are unwilling to adapt to what the situation presents. This kind of person detracts from everyone that is around him, because he is unwilling to change or even aknowledge that something is being approached in the "wrong way".

Unless of course you consider multiple failures "fun". He can still attempt his old style of play, even with the henchmen, and not affect anyone else trying to get through the game. As an alternative he can come here and attempt to affect influence to force everyone else to use his way, which is still not as good.

But like i said before, it really doesnt matter currently.

this thread, despite its noble intentions, is becoming a bit of a rant. with that being said, ill add my opinion as clearly as i can, and hopefully more clearly than i have in previous posts

The A.I. in any game is always subject to improvement. Until it is sentient, it can be improved. However, the A.I. update to Guild Wars has not, IMO, been a step up, but rather a huge step back for the game. Yes, they "improved" the AI of heros and henchmen, but there are still MAJOR problems with their behavior, namely interrupting their own spells/actions, bunching up, or just running around aggroing everything in sight when they start to take damage. GG Koss. On to the Monster A.I. While I wholeheartedly disagree with Anet on the stance of non-commercial farming (they think its bad, I dig it), I can understand their desire to change the behavior of monsters to make their extermination harder to achieve. However. they are MONSTERS. i dont know about you guys, but when was the last time you were watching a movie or playing another game and a monster got hit, said "ouch, gosh, that really hurt, stop that" and ran away in terror? comedy aside, the kiting behavior of enemies needs to be cut down severely, because henchmen chasing monsters into other groups of monsters=death. yes i realize thats why they gave us flags, but i shouldnt have to micromanage my character and the henchmen at all levels of their play to keep them from deciding to chase a margonite seer straight into another group of margonites. while im not saying that monsters should stand stock still while we kill them, im saying they shouldnt be nearly as prone to scatter faster than a college party when the cops come. this goes especially for melee monsters. why should they be big and tough, and then run away and wont get into a fight when their health is too low. the melee monsters shouldnt be geniuses unless theyre a boss or something IMO

Id love to continue this rant but i think itd just be repetitive (moreso than it already is)

/endrant

The henchies still arent very bright. As stated, theyll run right into another group of mobs while chasing one that theyre already after. Appearently theres no way that they know thats a bad idea, which is obvious to anyone with a real brain. Henchmen should act more like real player, maybe improvement to threat detection is an idea to be implemented. Also, melee mons, although of animalistic intelligence(basically), would still realize, "that hurts", and move away from whatevers causing it, the survival instinct. I dont have much problem with that, but what I do have problems with is when you get chased as far as halfway across a map, or, after they break aggro, you stop, and even if theyr 1.5 the aggro bubble away when broken(about half the radar), theyll reaquire aggro, and come after you again. Thats too far for that, and shouldnt happen. Lots of people say "Just adapt". Well, sure, to some things, but if you HAVE to change a build to carry some form a slowdown that you didnt need before, thats a problem, and not something to "just adapt" to. I havent had too much trouble myself, but I dont really farm, or solo, so its a bigger deal for those players who do.

Monsters never run away from me, unless they aren't attacking. If they just stand there (like some caster and monks do) then they will run if you go after them, so forget them yes you can kill without them healing. Most of the time they just sit there and die. Thing is, they all target 1 or 2 players and almost kill them and waste their energy. When Hero AI is below hench AI that isn't right I don't think. They are stupid, dumb and need to be cleansed of their lack of AI brainery. My ranger uses Broadhead on warriors. Why?

i think the AI for heroes at least is amazing. The micromanagement of the skills makes it almost better than a real player, especially with 1/4 second reflexes..

my monk hero infuses better, and knows when/how to infuse, than myself, or any other woh/infuser thats been in my group.

How to put this without 'whining'. Talking Prophesies here.

In the beginning, you select a character and begin building it. You work your way thru the game aquiring new skills and adjusting you builds, (your skills, weapons, attributes, and team). You find the one that gets you thru all the missions and quests. Now, you start working on explorer titles. Last night you were making progress thru Mineral Springs, but ran out of time. Today you come on and "What happened to the AI?" You are being slaughtered just getting out the gate. After an hour of doing nothing but dieing, you find out the AI was changed to make it "better". Now, you "have to adjust". That means going back to "easier" areas to change skills, weapons, attributes, and team and relearn how to play the game. (Starting over when you are almost done.)

That is how sever and sudden the AI changes were / are. For farmers, the changes may be easier, they tend to work 1 or 2 areas. I am having to rebuild for the entire map, AGAIN.

I had the same problem, make sure you stick them to guard and not attack, then plop down a flag, they then seem to stay put, and only attack what comes to them with no aggroing.

This kinda struck me as weird. I'm making a valiant attempt to power level Dunkoro(?) out side Maatu Keepwith my Warrior. I would park Dunkoro about 2 1/2 to 3 aggro circles away then engage the Kirins/Undergrowth. This worked fine for the first few mobs but once I got in aggro range of the Rangers (forgot their names), EVERYTHING (Rangers, Undergrowth...) just ran past me and aggroed on the monk...and he's not even close to me...he's 3 aggro circles away!!!! This is beyond absurd!!!! Why can't ANET just leave things alone and stop changing the rules in the middle of the game.

This happens when I play as my monk as well. I made a point of staying way way back untill the other group members had achieved a good deal of aggro. To much of our disapointment, the mobs flew past the entire group, ran straight at me. Mind you, I standing still with SoJ ready (cause I knew the mobs would do that) - but the kicker is, when the team aggro'd the mobs, they were on the very egde of the compass... as in I couldn't even see the red dots.

As a personal note of utter hatred towards a lack of fix after all weekend; I've just about given up. I just spent an hour clearing a "fort" of Kournan troops. I sat and watched the AI run in circles, flee the second they are called as a target (yet they hadn't taken any damage yet), watched heroes and henchies run around fleeing the Avatar of Dwayna's area attacks, watched as Kournan Priests ran into walls, not healing their dieing friends, watched Kournan bowmen bounce back and forth unable to find a target (thus wearing a rut in the floor)... and much much more. Took an hour to clear this very small spot thanks to the AI. Most irritating was the fact I was attempting the quest "Estate Planning" and was supposed to be showing the area to Kwaju and Koss... after all said and done, Kwaju got confused and bugged at the gate entrance and would refuse to move again... an hour of frustration and irritating AI for nothing.
Most important thing to note in that paragraph, is when I say I sat and watched... that's what I did. I sat there, so sick of chasing foes around who either ran before they got hit, ran once they got hit once, or were chasing the heroes around. I descided to sit there and simply call targets. This is how I know mobs would flee before even taking a hit.
At this point, I know consider the game unplayable. I play a game for fun, and this crap, is not fun.
Personal note: I should have bought NWN2, now I don't have the cash to do so and am stuck with this broken game that is "working as intended"... whatever...

/end rant - and yea, I'm ticked

"Working as intended" is a bitter, bitter joke. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, it's another reason for me to stop buying/playing GW once chap 5 comes out. Besides, I need to reclaim my life. lol

With or without flagging I have come to realize that Olias is his own man, so to speak. I have more difficulty with keeping him in line than any other hero. There is an oversensitivity issue in when you tab (without using space to attack) onto an enemy, some heroes and hench take that as a "CHASE!" command.

I found this an amusing display of just one of the many issues people have expressed on this thread. This is just me waiting to see if Olias could possibly get the party through the portal. (Notice the vast difference on the compass between him and the rest of the party.)

Here's a good one of idotic behavior: This is the "groups" fourth time around me. Somewhere behind me Olias was off slaying things solo as usual. Jin was at least attempting to do something here. Which is a change. Koss never got any closer than that.



And here's a wonderful one of our friendly monk standing there. He never once healed himself and was down to about 10 health. I was sitting there waiting for him to do anything.



No one can tell me this is fun nor how it is supposed to work... come on... fix it already.

funny, i played all weekend and have found the new AI w/ heroes to be excellent.
I was bitching all about the initial change in which everything would focus fire on the highest armor character, then there was another change that apparently went in the complete opposite direction to lowest armor, but now everything seems to work perfectly fine for me.

Actually, for me it seems almost like the game is too easy w/ heroes and henchies. I highly suspect though that it depends on what class you are playing. There are a few instance and missions in which our team would have completely failed several times if my character was not a monk. The mission where you rescue Koss in Pogoni(?) Passage w/ that level 16, aggro happy Shahai comes to mind...

So I've been mapping all of Elona as I run around doing quests and missions with my monk. My party has never wiped once (something unthinkable in the old days of prophecies when I was a fire ele that used alesia for aggro bait to escape mobs).

I get higher scores w/ my heros/henchies (highest score 86) in the challenge mission w/ the guild lords than any pug (avg score ~45) I've been in (and that's screening for the good ones too). My heroes rez fast, focus fire, and will retreat to save the backlines.

I generally set all my casters to "guard" and my frontline wars & dervs to "aggressive". If I'm just running thru an area w/ heroes/henchies in tow, I set them to "avoid" or whatever that last setting it called.

I've noticed to that to get the most out of your heroes you have to constantly spamming calls for each target. I usually start spamming the next target before the current one has died figuring the eles or MM army will finish them off. I notice that I have to spam constantly because often once the current target is dead, the warriors will start running back to you!? That's just stupid.. also if you kite or reposition, they'll break off and follow. Other times I've watched Devona or Melonni run for some other caster way deep in the enemy backline once the current target is dead.

I don't think the new AI is any "smarter" just that the ability to micromanage them and actually give them some decent skills makes them seem so. The trick is to constantly call their targets, because in the end the heroes can just be downright stupid.

I generally call in the following order: monk, ele (due to spike/aoe dmg), dom mes, interrupt ranger, necro, ill mes, wars/dervs on our casters, dervish, paragon, other rangers, rest of mob

Of course any annoying warrior/dervish that's terrorizing/interrupting your backline casters takes priority for calls depending on what my healing power is vs the hero's ability to take out their backline spikers first.

So for me, playing a monk, makes it really easy to run around killing things, finishing missions, etc because I have a better view of the overall battlefield, I can throw out heals and prots to mitigate backline pressure while they cut down the enemy, and I can call targets while knowing exactly what everyone on my team is doing and where they are relative to aggro. I run my UW/FOW build which seems to work pretty well.

I hardly use the flags as I'm too lazy to lol, I just call the target, watch Devona use sprint to run in, then toss a prot out if a caster (usually my mes hench who's super eager to get her cry of frustration out) aggro's first.

Anyway, I usually run w/ the following:
me: mo/w Heal/prot monk
Alcolyte S: forgot his name, the ele as fire nuker w/ m shower/fireball/etc and ward against melee
Olias: MM/death nova w/ BR
Melonni: Scythe Mastery w/ no enchant removal skills =)
Mhenlo (great back up healer)
Eve (love her BR for my ele and necro heros)
Mes hench (wish I could set her to pure interrupt)
Devona (love running around the map crushing mobs w/ Charge)

I think the 2 best skills I armed my henchies w/ are Ward against Melee & BR. Since the casters like to stand packed together, Ward really helps them when the enemy wars/dervs go after them. And BR for continuous minionage and nukage. Also MM always works like having a prot monk and nuker rolled into one.

I've uncovered 30% of the map so far, take on huge aggro currently, but I do anticipate the game getting harder eventually to the point where hopefully people will be looking for groups again! Because the lack of "LFG" in towns makes my monk sad, and when my monk is sad... a baby kitten dies

Post deleted because it was off topic and in a generally pointless direction.

I would say if this is a mission use real ppl as to that is what the game is about.

and that seems to be the aspect of the game hurt most by these over-glorified heroes. I haven't yet finished the game, but every town and mission area lately seems to be a ghost town filled w/ players in full groups running around silently, gathering XP, starting missions. Every so often, a lone voice echoes off the pink spam filled chat window.. "xxx LFG mission" ..

Its sad, I'm all about pugging.. but have been pretty much forced to hero/hench everything due to the complete lack of groups to be found. Then there are the 2 player + 6 hero groups.. are those really groups..?

Maybe there are more pugs in end game areas?

Some missions require you to take heroes though... just an FYI.

It's not about missions though, it's about the game not being fun, nor challenging. It's aboutAnet fixing or changing back the AI to when it was enjoyable (still needed work to be challenging). Instead, we are expected to work around or adapt to something that is neither fun nor slightly entertaining... and we are supposed to be glad for it.
If it was challenging I could probably live with it and go with the flow. However, it's not.
Anyone who says everyone should just adapt should take note; there's nothing to adapt too. The AI is easier to kill now than before as all you have to do to destroy their "strategy" is put an AoE around or on the monk(s). After that, they are too dumb to know what to do next... so, adapt to what? Adapt to them running around in cirlces? Snare to kill faster? What's the point? To rush to the next fight that will play out the exact same? Are we supposed to adapt to the AI heroes panic and spam ctrl + space to get them to do what you say? How is that adapting?
There is nothing to adapt too. The AI is broken, in that the game is akin to playing a FPS PvP match vs bots. And that equals boring. Don't believe me, load up Quake III bot play and watch the AI run in circles avoiding fire... they act just like what we have now.

Try giving dunkoro a heal he can use on himself, instead of giving him only target OTHER heals. Healing touch works.

Hmm, I think you may have just pointed out an interesting bug. I used the same build with Tahk (or however you spell her name) and she was healing herself fine... never really paid attention as it was slapped together to see if they would yet again, run in circles for hours.
I'll go check again in a bit.

- thanks

Edit: Yup, she was healing heself with Healing Word... reporting as a bug. - thanks again... I didn't notice it.

I'm wondering, with the vast differences in bugs I've seen and the vast wierdness in different AI behavior, is it possible that the client data is being corrupted somehow?
Example: The Dye and Rune quests in Kamadan work fine for me. A guildie couldn't progress after choosing the "Margrid Path" and had to it over again.
Others claim different quests are not working that just hours before I completed, and vise versa. I couldn't complete Estate Planning, yet a guildie finished just a day prior. - It's almost too eratic to make since... yea I'm really grasping here as I want to enjoy the game... but currently, unable too.

Noticed a Few problems. Sorry if they have been mentioned again.
- In the command training quest, You will see this in action. I will set a flag for all heroes to go to An Area. They will then start kiting their Bums off and only after I called the enemey x100 times (literrally) did they start attacking.
- Problem with Acolyte Sousuke. He keeps running in with the warriors! I have made sure he only has range attacks but even then he tends to follow Koss into battle.
- And the problem with end game kiting is just horrible. Sure they need to kite more for Shiro but its just ridiculous now.

Farming = Too many ppl solo-ing, small grps, little teamwork.
Anet wants teamwork, discourages solo farming = Nerf on AI, skills that allow farming.
Heroes & Henchies = Less Teamwork, more silent towns w/ppl dissing other ppl who wants groups. Who want teamwork.

Kind of a hypocritical standpoint, dont u think? Nerf farming so we work as a team but encourage Heroes and Hench AI so no one wants to work together anymore. Just a thought. Hypocritical or Conflicting Reasoning? Decide for yourself.

my problems is casters running in with warriors and dying first. Since I worked through the game first with ele, my war's i use 2 and derv will not get agro I die first. Once I die they stop fighting to rez they die and group wipe.

When I die hench and hero's seem to branch off to different targets and wipe. I also have a problem keeping hero's and hench on certian targets. If I die its over like i said they all get a hair up there behind and go after dif targets.

Caster hench and hero's seem to kite. Will not stand still, they end up dying. But when its AoE and not a monster attacking them. They stand still and die due to AoE. Whats up with that. Why will they kite or run from melee but stand and die to aoe.

Also mobs will run. not just out of AoE range but run just about off my radar and If I cant knock them down I will have 2 to 4 groups add. So its over.

I dont care about farming. I like using my ele to move through and kill everthing as I find the chests. Or just clear a zone to clear it. But by the time I am on my third group of mobs with a 45% DP. And all my hero's the same way. Takes out a lot of fun.

If they want to kill duo farming, make it so you can not zone out unless you have 4+ in a group in an area where its 8 max. This way you can still go with a small group but solo and duo teams will be no longer.

Disable their rez and use it manually when you need to, that will stop them from rezzing its' what I had to do. Also for casters running in first, you'll have to flag all the time when you fight for them to stop that, make sure you do it before the battle, they don't heal you if running to a flag point. Because they can't think for themselves and don't know any better when your health is being lowered.

I was about to say that.

I have all my res skills disabled, and I have stuff like Dark Escape disabled as well.

i seriously love this thread i've had my own experiences with this "improved" AI, so i know how frustrating it is. but i was still laughing at some experiences sum ppl made and posted here lmao. if anet doesnt respond to this thread, its at least fun to read the stories lol

i agree big time that hench and monster r behavin plain stupid. sum experiences i made:
i had 3 monks in my team (2 heros and 1 hench), i battled sum lil group. i (the squishie ele) got spiked and was down to about 1/4th health. the rest of my hench/hero team was kinda fine (most had full health, sum 3/4th). during the battle i was down to my 1/4th health for a kinda very long time (well, sumthin like 5seconds or so? *cough* but for an ongoing battle with such low health i think thats long), anywaaaaays not even ONE of those 3 monks healed me .. its like they were just watchin me and takin bets when i get the next spike to finally die (which i did the next second).. even tho the rest of the team was fine, and that battle didnt take THAT long to remove all their energy .. *sigh
another fun thing: i was doin a chest run in fow. sum dude in the team aggroed one of those ether/bond/skeletal warrior kinds of things-group. they ran behind everyone ofc. after a while they broke the aggro, but u know who kept following me, for like half a map further and waaaaay away from their own group? the 2 skeletal bonds LOL i was like "shit shit shit i still got 2 on my tail they r gonna get me any sec" til i finally targeted em to check who it was: the bonds. i was like "double u te ef??", and stood stil. they just stopped next to me, doin absolutely nothin (huh? bet they were checkin my armor out, oooh nice nice). i found 2 new pets!!!! yeeeehaw!! and another point about this situation: i was usin Charge and Sprint to get the hell out of there, and they DID NOT DROP BACK but KEPT MY SPEED UP?!?! wtf, bonds with turbo rockets up their asses?

its rediculous how long mobs keep chasing nowadays. i was in the shiverpeaks sum days ago, the crawl monk-boss of sum group ran off, my team chased him, his team chased us. after a mile his group finally stopped and walked back, th monk? kept running .. they really ate too many duracells.

I'm really not sure what everyone is complaining about. I just did Vizunah Foreign last night with my warrior using nothing but heroes and hench. The local side was full hench on my first attempt to get masters. The local hench kept Togo alive the whole time and didn't suffer one death that I could see before I got there. My final time was 26:07 for an experts reward. I brought 2 MM heroes (Olias and Master of Whispers, who I unlocked after beating Nightfall almost completely with heroes and hench) which did a good job considering neither of them were at 16 death magic, nor had Flesh Golem unlocked. My second attempt was with a full local team and resulted in masters.

My point here is that I have found that hench and heroes do just fine as long as you know how to order them and how to aggro wisely. This reminds me of when someone posted screens of beating THK with all hench using no skills in his skill bar. I have a feeling people are simply placing the blame on hench for their own mistakes.

I think people are yet to fully understand how to use the Heroes.
In particular, they don't know how to mesh their heroes with the right build nor how to use the Attack, protect and defend modes.

I see people complaining about their monk Heroes not healing the party or themselves when they have a god awful skillbar with no energy management. I have used both monks below level 18 on missions around the Bazhaar and getting Masters reward.

I have Zhed as a nuker (NOT meteor shower or firestorm) and I think he is better than 80% of the nukers out there. His kill rate is higher than every real player I have played with in NF PvE.

To me it is not surprising that PvE farmers who has tactical atrophy are having difficulties how to deal with the new monster and hero AI. Months of mindless AI has placed them in a state where they are having difficulties adapting.

Every PvP player I know thinks the AI is godsend and has made PvEing that much better. Hell some PvP player are winning in PvP matches with the AI.
I have gotten Masters reward on every mission except 2 of them so far (2/3 done in the game) with 3 heroes and the rest are henchies.
I don't expect that rate to stay later in the game where the missions are harder.

But I highly suggest people to fix their skillbar first. Stop expecting the heroes to heal themselves with Orison. Koss with Server Artery and Gash at higher levels is just a terrible build. Pure healing builds are just dumb. One attunement as your e-management is just sad. You guys have been playing the game mindlessly-- time to adjust.

Stop using generic skillbars. Customize them to fit mission and the offense (and defense). And put the appropriate 'mode' for each hero.

It is not that hard people.

Well you did post it...

But as I said, that skillbar for a monk is just not good at all.
He is on Guard mode with Healing Whisper. Notice he does NOT HAVE A SELF HEALING SKILL. Not to mention you gave him a long cast time hard res.


Sheezaz

@XvArchonvX and Crimsonfilms - no offence, but your missing the point here. There's no complaints about difficulty increased. It's a complaint on how dumb the AI is now. It's how Un-fun the fights are now. If anything, the AI is so bad now, the game is easier. All you have to do is be patient and the AI heroes will wipe out most of the baddies if you are patient. If you rush in and expect to win, well... say hello to the rez shrine.
The biggest problem for me is the simple fact that I am able to defeat every single group I come across using three skills. - As a Dervish: Aura of Thorns, Heart of Holy Flame and any "self enchant removal that attacks". That's all I've needed. Snare, clean up, snare clean up.
As a ranger, I'll take mesmer second and take epidemic. Apply poison, Crip Shot Epidemic... now all foes are crippled and poisoned and clean up time.
As a mesmer I'll use Jin or Margrid mainly but any hero with a crippling attack works; fevered dreams quickly followed by "the snare" and it's over. Clean up time.
Ele... shouldn't even need to mention how many snares they have in water magic...

Point is, it's not hard, nor is it fun and entertaining. When someone complains about the AI, it's instantly dismissed as being "too hard"... this is not the case here. The AI is far from hard, it's easily wiped out, and generally and easily the worst AI I've seen in GW to date... and this does not hold to just the mobs. It applies to the Heroes and Henchies as well. It's playable, but why would we sit back and accept such horrid coding and AI when we can and have seen much better from Anet? I just don't understand the reasons against wanting better...

Edit: I'm glad PvPers are enjoying the new AI. I guess playing tag in arenas got boring. But this is PvE. Story line and foes of different actions and reactions are needed to keep it interesting. Playing against Quake bot like AI is not fun, nor... again, a challenge. Anet should stop trying to force PvP and PvE together. They are always going to break one of the game types when they try this.

That's exactly what I'm thinking and have been saying too. People are also expecting far too much from the Heroes, they expect them to be able to use any skillbar efficiently to any situation and team makeup.

Hero A.I. is not perfect and could use some tweaking but having Heroes increases the flexibility in team building a thousandfold and probably a lot more effective than random PUGs.

I'm not the best team builder out there since I'm not familiar with a lot of caster skills and yet I still manage to make a decent hero/hench build that pretty much breezed me through the game. Of course, I've had to change the build quite a few times to adapt but that's a good thing. Going through the game mindlessly is a killer.