AI Changes for monster/henchmen 10/31..for the worse?

A player can only be "efficient" if he chooses to become so. The only prerequisite for that, is that he's having fun while playing and is willing to spend more time with the game. In the old system, I was having loads of fun. In the new system, I'm having less fun.

Now ArenaNet sells entertainment, meaning that if a lot of their customers are not being entertained, it DOES matter.

I couldn't agree more.

Yup, they did something to the ai. Last night i hardley had any skill canceling, the ai kited and followed targets well. When we ran from an ele spiking mob (sandstorm boss), the tank disengaged right away and things work rather nicely. I truly don't mind that the enemy ai targets the sqwuishies as long as the ai heals, casts effectively and follows targets. Things seem to be working better for the moment...

I had a group of 3 Charr chase me outside Nolani Academy forever until i finally died. And in turn I have chased priests and bosuuns half way across a map just to kill them. Its cool that they run now but i dont enjoy being chased as a warrior by CHARR in ascalon while making a run. thats just wrong.

The bottom line is that the AI is beatable, but that's not the issue. Some of the changes are turning average battles into lengthy "grinds."

I usually only have about 2 hours a night to play on the nights that I can afford to take the time. If it were to take a couple hours just to grind through a side quest, I probably wouldn't be interested in playing for long. Fortunately it appears to be nowhere near that bad, but the gameplay certainly has slowed some and with several AI changes in the last week, you never really know what you can count on when you head into battle. In some respects that's ok, but it can lead to frustration when the setup you used yesterday no longer works on the same monsters today.

There is a time/place for battles of epic proportion that require mistake free coordination and planning. That place is on Master's level missions, elite missions, and main storyline missions near the end of the game. Killing groups of monsters is an absolute necessity by design of this game. However, if it becomes tedious just to do side quests, then casual players like myself will probably look elsewhere for entertainment.

AI is difficult to program. I've dabbled in it a little myself in simple games that would seem like child's play compared to GW. Even there I found how difficult it is to get the heirarchy of decisions working properly and the ripple effects throughout the code caused by the simplest of changes. Throw in team coordination and the task gets exponentially harder. However, whenever I thought I had a chunk of code working properly I tested it as thoroughly as possible in real game scenarios using as many variations in possiblities as I could before I tried to use it on the final product. Then I had others use it and report back to me what they found. GW is massively more complex than anything I ever did, with far more possibilities to take into account, yet I feel that there was not an adequate job of testing done before the release of the updated AI.

Many of the threads on here would not exist if due dilligence were given to the testing of these new codes before the release to the general public. If the AI performed generally as advertised in the update then the "adapt and overcome" people would have a valid point. Unfortunately, it has not.

On the other hand, Anet does appear to have a team of people who are willing and able to respond fairly quickly to solve some of these issues and I do appreciate that.

I just hope they will let us know when they consider the AI for both the monsters and the heroes/henchies to be working as they intended so that we can finally adjust what we do to compensate for the changes. I have the ability, but not the time to figure out new setups on a daily basis to compensate for the latest tweak.

At the expense of others' fun, such as myself. Like i stated before, it doesnt matter.

Ok, I'll bite.

How in the world can you claim he was having fun at the expense of your fun? Nothing was taken from you. It could not possibly have been at your expense because that's all there was -- either you were having fun or not, but his having fun had nothing to do with your fun. Unless, of course, other people having fun makes you miserable, while seeing them have less fun or suffer provides entertainment for you.

He, on the other hand, can argue that something was taken from him. It won't change anything, but at least he does have a valid argument.

You can't please all the people all the time.... but you should be able to please most of the people most of the time.
That way you sell a game to most of the people and they're happy with it.

I agree with Kilgore.

Your fun doesn't cancel out his lack of fun - it doesn't make sense.

Anet's goal is to maximise profits -> maximise sales -> maximise people buying -> people buy if they like the game -> people buy game for fun experience.

So in order to maximise profits they need to make a fun game for as many people as possible.

Remember the episode when Homer Simpson designed his brothers car and bankrupted him.... Anet need to avoid this scenario and cater to the masses and not the few.

2 people having fun > 1 person having fun

That's entirely based on the assumption of which side has more supporters. In fact, reading through this thread, it seems almost like a 50/50 split, to me. Personally, I'm all for the AI update, but I can understand the other point of view as well.

I've long supported a good middle ground, though. In other words, different types of mobs have different types of AI. Humans, Margonites, Djinn, Demons, etc. get the improved AI, or maybe even something better depending on level. Whereas Insects, Drakes, Skales, Heket, etc. get a more dumbed-down AI, and perhaps plain idiotic (or more reflex/instinct based where they aggro the first thing wailing on them) for lower level.

Otherwise, how it is now is perfectly fine to me. It could be a bit more difficult, IMO, but it's pretty fun as it is. There has to be a balance. If it's too difficult, then people who want an easy time will ragequit, or get frustrated after repeated attempts, or just otherwise burn out from thinking too much on how to beat something. If it's too easy, people will just get bored of the game before getting even halfway, or abuse farming ventures, sending the market into a free-fall.

Balance is a delicate thing, and whether or not Anet has accomplished that balance has yet to be determined. If there are bugs (like the heroes cancelling skills), they need to be fixed, obviously. I just don't see how anyone can't agree that the AI needed tweaking, though. "Change it!" I get, "Change it back!" I don't.

Not really but I agree that it's about 50-50 judging by the posts.
Let's say we have a sample size of 100 people.

Some scenarios -
90 people were having fun previously doing whatever they were doing -> 100 sales of software with 10 people thinking that it was too easy after buying the game but still playing the game. Those 10 people may or may not buy the next chapters.

Now with the AI changes say only 50 people are having fun and that means that roughly 50 people are not having fun - playing less and not likely to buy NF or further chapters.

So which scenario makes more sense from a sales perspective?

The likelyhood of a person who will quit/not buy because the game stays the same is far far less that the likelyhood of a person who will quit/not buy because the game changed in a way that they didn't like (and had no way to foresee).

As far as I can see NF is a huge success but the AI update has marred it significantly for a sizable chunk of people.

GW needs to grow player base and not shrink it.
Anet should be concerned about pissing off a significant portion of current and future customers.

You're completely forgetting about a huge factor: New Players.

If the changes they made end up making half the players leave (though I seriously doubt a small tweak in AI could have that significant of an effect), but overall make the game better, there will be more players in the long run, and thus more money for Anet. You can't just assume that these 100 players, as good of a representation of the players overall, also represent everyone remotely interested in GW.

Point is, the better the game is, the more people it will draw in, despite any changes that make veteran players nerous or ragequit.

It all depends on the view of a good game then.

The problem I see is that NF is being reviewed now and to be honest I expect reviewers to subtract a few plus points because of the shaky AI update - which paradoxically has nothing to do with NF content!

This would be sad but fair - this game was for everyone, from the father of three who has 2 hours a week to play to the person who plays everyday and continually on the weekends.
With the AI update its more difficult/frustrating/time consuming - take your pick

Unfortunately GW is a game where you don't have an easy, moderate, hard, nightmare level set - it's the same for everyone which means that those people who normally would play a game on easy/moderate may no longer like this game because the AI has gotten smarter (well once they finish writing the AI that is....). Remember everyone plays a game to enjoy and win, not to be frustrated and lose.
PVP can be frustrating as there's always a human winner/loser and many people don't play PVP because they just don't want to lose all the time and have no interest in going through the long learning curve to get good.

Let's say you saw a game and the difficultly was permanently set on hard/nightmare - how many people would buy that game - get to a difficult bit on level 4 and just give up out of pure frustration. My guess is quite a few.
The best content of the game could be later on but they'll never get there and won't buy the expansion pack.

Now if the game was set on moderate (which should be aimed at the largest base of players) then you have a much larger percentage of players actually complete/enjoy the full game and in the case of GW the end high level areas could cater to the hard/nightmare people (which was the aim of the elite missions/SF/titan I believe)

Statistics for how many people completed Factions and Prophecies with at least one toon would be very interesting compared to how many bought the game. But we'll never know those....

Repeat business for any business is huge!

Say you buy a car from a dealer and something you didn't expect to go wrong does go wrong.
But what if the dealer doesn't care coz he got his one sale.
Next time around are you even going to look at any cars from that dealer?

The volume of new players is nowhere near the volume of current players.
Yes it's important to grow the business but more important to retain what you have and keep them coming back for more.
When you grab a customer you have to keep hold of them...

Now just when I should be really excited about NF I find myself playing other games and not GW due to the state of AI. If it's just me who finds the content better but frustration/less fun factor growing then I'm only one voice.
If there's more then .... Anet may have made an oops.

To many the content of NF may outweight the AI change but to those people who only have prophecies/factions right now and if they don't like the AI change on those chapters - well they'll be less inclined to buy nightfall.

Well, NF is obviously a great game, I finished it in about 3 days, and decided to explore and mess around. 3 things i noticed.

1. Yes, the new AI targets my monks first, ALWAYS, not exceptions to the rule. If i'm facing margonites, shadows, or pass the gates, my monks die within 20 seconds or less. Leaving my eles and rangers to be led to the slaughter next, then my paragorn and then koss. Now, targeting my monks is somewhat workable, but not when EVERY single monster in the entire mob targets him, i dont even get a scratch on me. I can literally sit there and dance the night away watching my monk kite around cancelling repeatedly till his nrg goes to 0 along w/ my boon protector, or 2nd healer. While, i try my best to kill whatever is atking my monks, if there running around chasing my kiting companion, how can i even manage to hit him? And no, its not one chasing Dunkoro, its more like 4-5 of them reapers, chaos, w/e else chasing him, so my eles AoE, plus other skills dont land perfectly. Call it fun if u will. But if thats the case, then realize that some ppl dont have hours to spend chasing and kiting for 90% of the time.

2. When i even swipe at a target, does NOT matter the profession, they start running around, playing "Ring around the rosey" I wish i had gamecam to recorded this, because i was helping a guildie get masters in Arborstone and in the last part where u a ton of those stone guys, i swipe at the executioner, and what happens? He starts running around frantically not allowing me to hit him at all. So i change to a stationary target, the casters, what happens after that? He starts playing the game. I literaly had a whole screen of stone casters and executioners running around chaotically bumping into each other. Thats fine, we nuked them eventually. But Danika, she decided to stay in range of the stone casters and sit there getting hit even tho we were trying to take out the rest of the stone guys that were chasing after my monks. What happened? well, u can guess the outcome. Definitely fun.

3. So heres the last argument, "If the casters and monks run away, thats a good thing, so u can then target the dmg dealers." Right. See if that works when actually playing. I went to the realm of fear/torment/w/e, Targetted the casters (monks, ele, etc), they run like hell, so i begin to target the dmg dealers, only to realize that they chasing my monks around in circles while my ranger is missing half the shots, my ele's AoE is rendered useless, and i get a single shot in cuz those guys had a hard-on for sexy dunkoro. So my monks immediately die. I go after mister chaos w/e his name is, with hundred blades strike that does 70-80 dmg on a warrior and he immediately wipes out my eles without even breaking a sweat. whats left? Myself and good ol' Koss. Now keep in mind that after my monks died, those enemy monks and casters came back w/ a revenge, so heres koss getting mind freezed, deep freezed, blurred, ice spiked, gusted, hundred blades, maelstromed, arrowed to death. Poor Koss, he had no idea, so i run like hell to the nearest res. shrine only to die right next to Koss, because i cant out-hex mind-freeze, deep-freeze, and ice-spikes all at the same time. So yea, thats was real fun. Poor heroes and henchies had no idea what hit em. Just one encounter w/ those guys, within 50 seconds, koss and I were the only ones left. And dont tell me that our builds were not set right. What can i do? Neglect my axes altogether to bring hamstring or hammer knockdowns? Not to mention that i cant hamstring 3 casters at the same time nor does koss even know what hamstring does. Pure chaos, Pure fun.

This is just a simple explanation of what i have experienced so far. I know this is not what was intended. And if this is, well, i guess well be farming charr from now on.

Blackest Rose: I see what you're saying, and I agree with you for the most part. It all really depends on what would be considered 'moderate difficulty'. Essentially, that's what I was getting at with the 'balance' thing. This is a very subjective thing, and because of that, it's hard to pin down.

I, personally, have only just now reached Vabbi. Up to this point in the game, I haven't really felt it was all that hard. The Consulate Docks mission is a bit tough, and it may need tweaking being such an early mission, but otherwise everything has been slowly growing in diffuclty, as I would expect. I don't think I will start having trouble till the later-to-end missions and quests, and by then, I'll be ready for them.

That said, I feel that the difficulty is decent and moderate. The AI update hasn't been an issue for me, at least not yet. If it gets a lot harder, well that's what I would expect to see in the later 'levels' of any game. I don't see that you could say that the difficulty is permanantly set on hard/nightmare, since there is obviously a progression, just look at Istan, or heck Shing Jea, or Pre-Sear/Ascalon/Northern Shiverpeaks.

One more thing, I disagree with what you said about the reason people play a game. Enjoy, yes, but not win. It is nice to win, but if you played with no possibility of losing, where would the fun be?

theres a pretty severe "noob filter" at the mirror of lyss mission, which if i remember correctly is the last or next to the last mission in vabbi(and also one of the hardest in the game imo). when you get past the vortex, its a pain to hench, bc of the ridiculous kiting as stated above, but something i found problematic was aggro control. once the roller rink style kiting starts, expect to get 2-3 other groups to be aggroed by your henchs/heroes.

i disagree with your statement, people play games to win. its not like you buy a game and expect to plug away at it and lose. its fun to play yes, but its not fun to be stifled in your efforts at victory. the journey to winning is fun, tripping and falling on your face...well, not so fun.

Exactly. The Journey is fun. Obviously there are people who have already beaten the game, so it's not impossible. Flip that around and you've got: winning in this game is possible. That means you can win. Nothing is stopping you but yourself and what you can do. It's that way with any game.

What's that phrase about what you do when you fall? Oh yeah, pick yourself back up and keep going. When you finally do win, it will be worth it.

What if the jounery was fun but isn't any more?
Lets be honest only relatively hardcore players have the game finished by now.

I don't think anyone is making out that the game is impossible to finish - but contesting that the fun in going through it has gone down and frustration increased for the average player.
If frustration > fun then people stop playing.

There's only so many times you're willing to fall on your face before it becomes so sore that you say "to hell with this!"

How many people give something up because it's frustrating - a sport they're no good at, a musical instrument they can't play... not getting anywhere is frustrating.

Again all this is very subjective ...

I can hardly believe that the henchmen AI is now working as was intended? It's even worse today than yesterday!

Today I was helping a guildie further himself in the game. We came across a chest that he wanted to open, but we didn't feel like fighting all of the mobs in the way, so he decided to run to it. I told him to flag his heros, and I flagged mine so I was there with both his heros and mine. He runs off, gets to the chest just fine as he was able to avoid aggro. Then for absolutely no reason at all, his Master of Whispers charged out of his flagged area, straight through 3 groups of plants and right to him thus pissing everything off. I told him that he needed to set his heros to guard, or something, and he said they were all already on passive. There was absolutely, positively no reason at all that he should have left the flagged area.

In the next 3 missions, there were further problems with the Master of Whispers. He would charge out of the flagged area and aggro monsters in groups that were at least 2 or 3 aggro bubbles away for no apparent reason at all. Then later, one of my healer heros, set to passive, decided to run out of the flagged area to start wanding a Herald of Nightmares. I've had problems with Jin, set to passive, running out of the flagged area straight into a group of enemies to do nothing more than drop down a spirit of favorable winds.

I've also noticed a very, very large problem with the monk heros in that if you have, say, 2 real people in the group and 6 heros, the monk heros don't seem to like to heal the other person and their heros. Many, many times it came down to my guildie's 2 monk heros healing him and themselves, and my monk taking care of me and mine. The only way I could get Tahlkora to heal them, sometimes, was to physically force her to myself.

And in the meantime while you're all complaining about how hard the Monster A.I. is, I'm getting my second character through the game. I'm already at Vabbi now with the second one. Yes I play too much but I really can't see why some of you think it's so difficult. There's some issues with henchie/hero A.I. that needs to be fixed but nothing that can't be worked around.

i never said it was impossible. its not obviously, but it is in parts EXTREMELY frustrating . i expect a lot of players will have a lot of difficulty in beating the game without help from players who have and are going back for protector title (I know I will be going for protector). Personally Id rather play with a PUG than hench/hero, more potential for teamwork, and it lessens the monotony that ive found to be a large and unenjoyable part of the game (namely having to advance sunspear pts to continue primary .

Ill be around in game going for protectors, unless its a mission i already have masters for ill be happy to PUG it, IGN Angelic Salvation (P/W)

"if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies to the A.I.

its not a greater challenge-its just more frustrating. its also annoying that people solo the whole game, im a huge fan of PUGs and actually interacting with other players. its infinitely annoying to go into higher lvl areas or towns and see everyone henching it and snubbing their noses at players looking to form a group
"LOLZ n00b y form group, HERO FTW cuzz u n00b are teh sux"

Why is it annoying that people want to play with henchies instead of people? What's it to you? That's fine if you like socially interacting with others but why care so much how others are playing the game?

And not everyone who "solos" the game are the way you just described them. In fact, I see more people who are trying to form PUGS call people noobs than "solo" people. They just grab their henchies and go. But do I say people who play in PUGS are snot nosed kids? Of course not. That would be making a stupid generalization.

If my previous post implied that i was accusing you of making that generalization, i apologize, it wasnt intended. i just find it hard to form pick up groups with balanced parties in NF, and its not really as enjoyable to play the PvE campaign story missions solo IMO. post game play-i solo a lot, mostly bc i like to collect items/armor, which besides the negative manner in which it has altered basic PvE play, has severely diminished my post-campaign play. i realize the AI update has spawned a whole slew of threads, but I still maintain that its done more harm than good for GW as a whole.

Sid - if you're already well on your way to getting your second toon through NF then 2 things.

1. Wow - well done, good going
2. You're not the average player

The average player may have a much tougher time playing through the game than you think with the "new" monster/hench AI

Only a small proportion (a few % I'd guess) are now through the game - they're not the majority of players.

Only time will tell - are they finished with AI updates? I hope not.

A few of my guildmates have already completed the game. I didn't have the time to go along with them nor wanted to rush through it without taking my time (olololo rush more ch00b), so I've been lagging at least a couple of missions behind the entire time, playing either with henchies or with a few other straggling guildies.

Now that I'm in the Realm of Torment and the really harcore "rushers" are done with the game, they're coming back to help me out as well.


Well guess what?

Since the AI was changed, they're finding it a LOT more difficult too.


In a sense, ArenaNet is too LATE with the changing of their AI, as the really hardcore players (the ones that had to be slowed down) are ALREADY DONE with the game (while the old aggro system was still in effect). The less hardcore to average players are now only either getting the game or reaching the last missions. They are the ones getting slowed down and frustrated.

If they leave the A.I. in its current state, I'll have to reconsider any future purchases from Anet. while its possible to beat the game quickly, ive done it, it isnt nearly as fun to chase enemies around. I had a lot of fun taking on huge mobs in factions, and with the old AI i enjoyed the party dynamics of aggro control. it can be argued over and over that the new ai simulates more accurately playing against human opponents, but the fact is human opponents dont come in mobs of 20-30 and they aren't level 24-30. ever. IMHO they should revert to the old A.I. and think of a new policy towards farming-which is obviously the main victim of the update (im not saying farming isnt possible, thats shortsighted and untrue, im making the point that the fun a lot of people derived from farming is now gone).

No problem. Just a misunderstanding.

Ok, even though I find PVE to be a lot more fun and challenging and not at all too difficult with this new A.I., I do hope that they do some major improvements to henchman and Hero A.I. to make things easier. I know some of you, dont use henchies/heroes and still find it difficult, but I have to say that most PUGS are horrible. So no matter how easy PVE is, they will always make things very very difficult.

I sometimes think Tahlkoro is spending way too much time flirting with mhenlo whenever i have both of them in my party. Dunkoro must be pissed off as all hell since hes forced to heal everyone else, while mhenlo decides to heal always at the last minute when everyone is at 20-30 health, most of the time too late anways and he just wastes nrg.

Tahlkoro is my protector monk, but she obviously doesnt know how to use reversal of fortune, instead to spams PS over all of us, when not all of us need it.

It seems Mhenlo and Tahlkoro have a thing going for each. Both dont know what the hell their doing, and they spend way too much much time running around playing tag with each other whenever enemy mobs are being aggroed.

Patient: "It hurts when I do this, doctor"
Doctor: "Then stop doing that"

I know it's not a solution, but if the heroes are spamming a skill at the wrong times and screwing things up then dont place that skill in the skillbar. There will never be an A.I. that's smart enough to use any skillbar in the most efficient manner. So you'll just have to adjust to the A.I. instead of making the A.I. adjust to the skillbar you give it.

I guess he doesn't get it..
*whoosh* right over his head.

Who doesnt get what? If that guy was making a joke, it was still illustrating the point that the A.I. is bad. So I'm not sure what your point was.

Well A.I. is back to what it was in Factions/Prophecies (except for the AoE running away).

But now my whole party is actually getting attacked again, instead of just the monk, and I can finally kill groups again without getting a Death penalty of 60% first

The A.I. is NOT the same as it was when Nightfall came out (first enemy the A.I. saw got attacked), but they don't spike 1 target now either. I'm very happy, thanks alot A-net, I can finally play the game again


The only problem now is that henchies/heroes interrupt their own spells, but I guess that'll be fixed soon as well (As Gaile said if I recall correctly).

and again, thanks A-net, and sorry for my complaining, but I'm just not so pro in this game that I can kill 6 lvl 26 monsters that spike 1 target after another with 70 energy, skills/melee that does over a 100% more damage than I could possibly do, way more armor and lightning reflexes.

In short i think when people actually want to play an interactive online RPG, they do want to interact with other players. Making it possible for older players who know the ropes to hench their way through the game making it to a single player gma emore or less is destructive for the game and the community in general.

Fine, I'll bite.

He was illustrating a basic problem with the AI - the fact that they spend too much kiting at the expense of hard heals. You responded with a message that essentially said 'stop using the wrong skills'. This is ridiculous and off the mark by several points.

1. The poster was illustrating a basic problem with AI. Not with skills. His post had nothing to do with how henchies used skills. Therefore, your post was essentially responding to an argument that was never made.
2. Heroes have been consistently advertised as customizable henchies by ANET. What's the point of having customizable heroes that can't use skills properly? I think I can safely conclude that the onus is on ANET to fix the henchies, not us.

Any other questions?

The only problem I have is with the Water Elementalist Monsters in the Realm of Torment (I forgot their names) but they seem to bunch up in 3. ALL my henchies and heros go down to like 10-30% hp because of those damn Deep Freezes and those annoying ass mind freeze spam.

Wow you dont know how to read. I didnt say that there was a problem with skills, I said there was a problem with the A.I. using skills efficiently. The guy said the monk was spamming Protective Spirit too much at the wrong times. So I told him to try a different skill because the A.I. isnt capable of using certain skills correctly. And isnt using skills part of the A.I.?

So you were saying? Learn to read, Mmmkay?

Yeah, just leave protective spirit out so when you meet a pseudo spike or a boss you have no protection?

My statement still stands. Your suggestion is laughable at best and retarded at worst.

EDIT: Players shouldn't need to be subjected to idiocy because of ANET's programming. We shouldn't have to use a half retarded work around in order to play the game. ANET needs to read these problems and see what they can do about it.

Nice backtracking. You cant even admit that you were wrong? That just proves you're just here to argue.

And I'm not saying that we shouldnt be able to use PS at all, but at this point of time, the A.I. just isnt smart enough to use it properly so it's best to leave it out and use another damage mitagation skills that the A.I. can handle. That's just playing it smart.

PS isnt the only problem. if the monks are too busy running around, and you have one using a spell that has an activation time and is expensive, like Heal Party, it probalby wont get used. while Heal Party is a poor example because there are better spells to take, my point is that when you put skills on the skill bar they're usually there for a reason and if they dont get used when they are needed that isnt the players fault for not placing the right skill, but rather the A.I. for not realizing it needs to stand still and heal at least a little bit. I sympathize with Anet because programming the hero A.I. must be immensely difficult, but still, its something that has to be fixed.

I think PUGS are a necessary part of a MMORPG. Otherwise, how are you supposed to get to know other players in game? Without PUGS, They might as well make the Campaign a single player affair, with outposts being used only ffor trading/buying armor/weapons, and PVP the only real player interaction while actually playing (as opposed to just chatting). Diminishing the appeal of PUGS diminishes the point of playing MMOs IMO.


/agreed. way better explanation than my own statement.

lol, its called sarcasm along with a hint of a little humor. i think it went *whoosh* over ur head on that one. before u start retorting, read between the lines a little.

And of course, i threw out PS the first time i had her in my party, but the point is that i shouldnt have to. Why should i have to find a work-around for a bug that honestly should never be there in the first place? Thats like saying well the A/C in ur car doesnt work, so be sure not to drive during the summer or roll down the windows and wear a tank-top everywhere.