Anyone else bored?

1. yes, something should be done, they should quit.
2. you want something done, do it yourself, don't sit and moan
3. Anet is full of people just like us, they aren't gods, so if YOU don't know what to do, how can you expect them.

It's your world, make it what you wish, but NEVER sit idly by and merely spout complaints.

@felinette - I agree; but it seems to me, to stop at a certain point... the AI. The AI, seems to be coded strickly for PvP like play. I'm not the only saying it, and I used SitErnie's (who btw has to date the best and funniest name I have yet seen ) quote as an example of a very well worded example of such.

I see it like this; Nightfall is near perfection in terms of promise. Huge land mass, explorable for the most part, wonderfully laid out areas full of things to see and do. References even in the art work around the land point to other areas of the world. Anyone else notice the huge Jade blocks on Istan? Obviously from the Jade Sea. Wonderful touch.

However, the core of the game is battle. Still is from day one. Now, after some patches, the AI is seemingly trying to mimick PvP play. Not just my opinion there, as Ernie's post shows (and again I used his, since it was well worded).

Now, this AI is simply ruining the core PvE game. Too make matter worse for all players, are posts like this one: here and even several in GWG that have been closed cause the flames got too hot...

Point is, weeks and no "fix" - difficult or not. It took Anet days to "fix" the AI bug at NF's release... the difference here leads me to think it's "Working as intended" - just as Gaile's suggested question hinted at.

Now, will they change it? Dunno. Hope so. Cause it sucks.

Anyway, if I sound cynical, I don't mean too. But I am rather irked at a lack of response and worse, no fix.

OffT - Ernie, wasn't picking on you. Thought your post was very good. The coding of the AI wasn't on topic here, but the way the AI is coded did apply here; hence the dropped part. AI attempting to act like PvPers is partially what is ruining the game for many of us. Seeing someone who liked it (you) shows that not only someone who doesn't like it (me) is thinking that's where Anet may be going with the AI... in other words, still trying to merge "oil and water" (PvE and PvP).

Edit: Here's yet another well worded one:

I actually disagree with your second statement, based on the sentence right before it.

I am finding that many of my friends and guildmates that would have normally PuG'ed it are using heroes now, for the simple reason that (1) they are more predictable and (2) more accessible. These are the same players that really didn't like using henchmen because of their limited skill sets, which, in many instances, did not work well with their builds.

So, yes - almost everyone that used henchmen prior to Nightfall are using heroes in Nightfall. However, I believe that the introduction of heroes have also caused many more players to turn this into a single-player PvE game (as Chief described above) that historically would have PuGed it.

I believe that is a partial reason for some of the boredom you're seeing players experience. There are many other reasons (as described in this thread) that players are feeling more and more discontent with the Nightfall content, but I believe this is a major player in that.

I know you weren't picking on me, and I'm actually agreeing with most of the "bored" players, I play PvE to get away from PvP and its stresses, if I wanted PvE to be like PvP I wouldn't bother with PvE, because the rewards for the hassle just aren't there like they are for PvP.

I just thought the other line added to the constructive reasons why so many have lost/are losing interest in PvE.

Off-topic: My name here is from my character on Toontown, Glad you like it! :-)

Well, I have finally completed few missions in the mainland and it seems that so many people prefer AI mates. There are lots of moving players in the area but LFP messages are rare. Getting humans for quests is impossible. The change is clear.

First I thought that there is lots of new players which don't want to play with others because they want to learn and take their time. Another reason could be harder AI. So many are pissed with pugs because they die more often than in Prophecies or Factions. Perhaps third reason are the heroes and improved? henchmens which are just so effective, people don't bother with other players. Human interaction has been decreased. That is sure.

I think i'll speed up to beat Nightfall with my wammo than move on to work on the survior title for my two new characters.

I'm confused here; could you explain what you mean here. I've seen nothing more difficult with the AI. All it does is run around. In fact, since the 31st, I think I've died once and that was while I stepped afk for a drink. - course I haven't been wanting to play all that often either.

I agree, the general consensus is that playing Nightfall is too easy and therefore has become almost a single player rpg (while using heroes).

On topic: I still haven't seen anyone point out how farming has had a negative impact on the game or it's economy. I remember at one point when bot farming was at it's peak, sup vigors reached an all time low, but Anet successfully nerfed that without screwing over people that were farming for pleasure (and drops of course ).

I forget who the OP is but I'm sure he is frustrated as heck about how his thread has evolved into an argument about whether the game is more or less difficult now. I believe he wanted to discuss the problems with the AI change/farming nerfs and how they have made the game unplayable to someone that enjoys farming after they have beaten the game.

If only there was a way to take comments that don't relate to the OP's topic and move them to their own thread. I'm pretty sure this thread would have to be split into at least 4-5 different topics. lol

Actually, what I got from the OP, was that he was bored... and the reason for being bored came up.
Farming, the weak AI, lack of challenge, same ol' same ol' stuff... all these are reasons we are bored... and more. So I still see it as being on topic as they all relate to the point... we are bored.

Edit: typos... /sigh

Yup, I'm getting a bit bored. I still have a LONG ways to go with Nightfall, but it just seems like more of the same.

I'm still a noob...only been playing since March. When I first started playing, I was amazed by the numbers of people and how quick and easy it was to form groups (compared to other games like Everquest, DAoC...etc).

Now that Factions and Nightfall are out, zones are becomming ghost towns. If you try creating a new character these days, you probably will have some difficulty finding groups in Prophesies or Factions.

Even Nightfall has zones that are quiet. I guess that's the problem with expansions. It spreads people out too much.

I have been playing on and off for about 15 months.

When I first started with Prophecies...Guild Wars was a time machine. I stepped into the world and at the end of each session, I would realize 10 hours just passed. Imagine Prophecies on a long-haul flight...you wouldn't even notice you were circling Bangkok for 20 minutes.

Prophecies had a lot of spirit. When new items were released, people rushed to find them. Remember Sorrow's Furnace and everyone rushing to find the entrance? Remember the Icy Dragon Sword and people forming groups ASAP to go team farm it? No one even cared too much about who was richer in game, as long as everyone got a sword in the end...Remember the first few holiday events? Fun and jubilation, everyone found groups and regardless of experience, had fun obtaining the cool items. In those days, there was always something to "talk about." There was always the "in" thing--bugged Battlepick! Thunderhead Keep bonus bug! Ice skating in Grotto! A TIGER EMOTE?! WOOT!

Factions inherently maintained spirit due to the momentum of Prophecies. Upon release, everyone ran to make their new characters--it was like being on foreign exchange. Shing Jea Monastery, with its beckoning arches and 5 synchronized naked dancing Bikini-baby ritualists (don't pretend you don't know what i'm talking about! ), was a great place to explore. Unfortunately, deep inside I didn't want to stay there. I wanted to explore Factions, reap everything, own some noobs but eventually come back and find out what was happening in Tyria. Factions missions? Action-packed. Though the thinning of the community was already happening, 16-person missions and huge Alliance Battles created great fun. I couldn't believe the Saltspray Dragon Hatchling was following me! Experience came fast, and even the mailman-type quests (deliver teddy bear to Jatoro or whatever) returned some serious XP points. Even then, people complained. I believe it's because they missed the good old days. Would Nightfall give us a new home? Would Nightfall offer a final, communal bastion on which to rest our laurels?

Nightfall didn't. Nightfall gave us ridiculously good scenery, amazing new skills, tons of explorable areas, an armada of fierce enemies. Nightfall also killed the spirit. While I'm not a fan of school spirit, corporate spirit, cheerleaders or bacardi, I do believe that Prophecies had a unique, Guild Wars "spirit." In Nightfall a lot of players, when given the option, prefer heroes over other people. I have nothing bad to say about ArenaNet or the game developers. Instead, I am sickened by the reluctance of players to revive the camaraderie. Who will message you to rave to you about the new Nightfall elite areas? Hopefully Koss, for there is no one else. Who will party with you, fight alongside you, get lost with you, re-zone your corpse and eventually triumph with you over the great boss Zerg Zerg the Gypsy in your attempt to steal his treasures? Hope that someone will, for in Nightfall, you always fight alone.

A brilliant post sir. Sums up my feelings exactly. Why even bother playing online anymore just make it a single player game , which whether you like it or not it has become.

And please dont come back and say "I never have a problem getting a group".........it does not change the facts, People now even owning in hoh with heroes and henchies. Heroes may have seemed a good idea at the time , and to the impatient players probably a dream come true. Mark my words - anet have inadvertently killed the game many of us love and treasure and the sad thing is , I do not think it is ever coming back.

well...that was unneeded and hurtful...

Well the blame of decreasing PUG groups can't be put on Heroes, it's the horrible unfriendly GW community that's the blame. Why put up with stuckup, arrogant or just plain jackhole-ish behaviour when you can just take heroes and henchies?

If the community were improved, I'm sure more people would form PUGS. Afterall, the magic of playing an online game is interacting with people....but sadly who wants to interact with the horrible general populace of GW? ANET didnt kill the game, we're all to blame.

In my years of playing gw the majority of people in a group have been fine , you always get the odd dick but that's life. To suggest that is why everyone is using heroes and henchies is not valid imo.

i would say i love using heroes in the explorable areas, especially for menial secondary quests or primary quests- heroes + henches are just that reliable and versatile.

however, i hate using henches for a mission. missions can last a long time, and to use henchies and not people is just asking for a boring experience.

my philosophy: group up with people on long affairs, but if its short, take the hero/henchie squad.

Then what's your opinion of why people are choosing the supposedly horrible henchie/hero A.I. over having real people to interact with?

Simple really - everyone is using them because it's quicker/easier , although that does not make it better.

But that's like saying I can walk to the shops and get some excercise but it will take me longer , or I can drive but I will get there a lot quicker. Put that in an online pve enviroment and you have your answer,,,,,

I don't like analogies. You can always find one to fit your arguments. I could, for example, say that GW is like a road trip. And everyone in it is a potential travelling companion. And currently most of the travelling companions that you have to choose from are so damn annoying that I choose to take my road trip alone (i.e. with henchies)

Sorry but comparing guild wars to a road trip just does not work. Nice try anyway.

NF is nothing more than a do-over, I am probably not buying next chapter now. but i like the hero system. now i dont have to play with pugs ever again which is good for me.

Wow. The discussion degenerated really fast. Especially since you used an analogy to compare GW to walking to the store and getting exercise! Hahaha.

And they used this information incredibly well in designing Factions???

And they reduced the drop rate because when people got nice drops they left them on the ground but picked up every non-max white drop???

And how exactly would players "show" what they wanted - an auction house, for example - besides posting in forums??? There's a reason why Anet reads these forums.

Anet botches things and with time they come to realize it and change things (Refund points for attribute changes anyone). Sometimes it takes them forever, and sometimes they just never get around to it (an auction house).

In the end, the sound Anet hears loudest is the flow of money coming in.

GW stays entertaining for most PvP players for a long, long time. All PvE players (who make up the vast majority of players) are asking for is for a similar experience. There is *NO END* in pvp.

I'm not saying that solo farming should be buffed, in fact, I would like to see a further nerf. I like the AI changes too. I would like to see group farming/questing get a decent buff (in terms of drops) as there's not much else for players to do (besides pvp) once they've finished the game.

I suppose guild wars is more like your analogy of peeps walking to the store and getting exercise, right? LOL.

Read again silly billy. Make sure you understand what's going in a thread before you deliver your comedy HAHA. I was respnding to the question "what's your opinion of why people are choosing the supposedly horrible henchie/hero A.I. over having real people to interact with". To which I responded quicker / easier, My anaology was related to people , not the actual game. Still you understand now huh ? then again maybe not....

sigh read above post as well.

*sigh* I love how people can't have a discussion without getting all pissy. I did read it and I understood what you were saying but I was saying analogies are never a good way to prove a point.

You're the one who got pissy about my analogy, which is funny considering how flimsy of a connection yours has with GW. Anyway...take a few deep breaths dude.

When you come up with comparing the game to a road tip (wtf) , is it any wonder ?

Time for bed mate.

I guess they can't be all gems as comparing GW to walking and exercise...

I personally like the AI changes. Yes it's more like PvP, but have you stopped to think WHY? Maybe it's because the way people play in PvP (running about) is.. intelligent. Gasp! My AI shouldn't have artificial intelligence!

Why does a monk run from a warrior in PvP? Because without a snare he's reducing the damage he takes, thus keeping him self alive and helping his team win. Kiting is a smart thing (in most cases) to do.

The way I see it, if the mob's running makes killing them take longer.. isn't that smarter? They're giving their buddies more time to kill YOU while you chase after em. Seems a much better plan then mindlessly beating on something to me. How was the AI smart even in the slightest to beat on a 55 monk until they died?

Sure, it needs tweaks, but it's a step in the right direction IMO. We honestly should be past the days of AI that just goes "RAAgh! KILL!". I believe that AI should attempt to mimic humans as much as it can, how cool would it be to see an AI group that stops attacking a 55 when it notices they can't kill it to let the mesmers and rangers take em out? Ataxe that runs off to get 10 dying nightmares to help?

Also, a note about farming. I don't think that it's farming in general they want to nerf, but solo farming. It is a multiplayer game after all. If you take a full group into the UW you personally make less, but the same amount of goodies do drop over all. I think that's what they want in the end.

On another note, for those who have said NF is just a new skin on the same game, I agree. But I also somewhat expect that. I don't expect blinding innovation and constant changes from something with no monthly fee. As has been said before, a new player starting with NF would love it. Hate to sound cynical, but doesn't a new player (potential $150 sale) make a hell of a lot more money than someone who's already bought it and playing for free?

*COUGH* Hero System *COUGH*
(((( _°Д°)))
Also if anyone wanted a PVP AI why not just go directly to PVP then. I'm sorry but yeah it's nice to have a challenge but when you're dealing with hundreds of mobs throughout the whole game who run away from you , I find it f***ing annoying. If you enjoy that then go ahead and have fun with it . It's boring enough to have to deal with mobs repitively but putting in an extra 10 min per mob chasing them down doesn't make anything better. Yeah sure snares whatever , it's still not the same.

Ok, here's some simple problems PvP fans might understand in making the AI attempt to play like PvP.

There are too many reasons the AI in PvE should not be made to act like PvP.

I will even use the above monk running from danger situation.

PvE players often fill in the groups with heroes and henchies, sometimes going out solo with just those. Now, say the player is playing a monk. Monk gets insta-aggro'd like in PvP. Monk calls target and begins to kite... guess what. Heroes and henchies try to follow now kiting monk.
Ok, monk has learned he/she can't kite cause AI is to freakin stupid. So, engages next fight. Mobs insta-aggro again. Monk calls target... now monk must stand there spam healing himself/herself and hope a boss mob doesn't show up, cause if it does... two hit... dead. Once dead, the heroes and henchies will lose called target and go looney toons targeting whatever.
Now, Anet could make the heroes and henchies "stick" to a target, but what about when the situation calls for a retreat? Then what... heroes and henchies are now stuck. Now what? PvP gotta kill the monk first thinking effectivly has now killed the monk class in PvE by doing this... how? It's now no longer fun, it's frustrating. Monk can "adapt" and take SoJ... but now all other Elite skills are out of reach and the class is now just that.. a healer with a must have SoJ. Dumb.

This problem is not that the monk is being targeted first as much as it is, once targetted, the player must kite, yet can't because of the AI. Further, the insta-monk aggro will create this problem in each battle for this player playing the monk. Henchies and Heroes are a great thing to have in the game; they fill in the blanks for groups fairly well, but when the AI is so poor... it kills the fun... and no, telling people to not use heroes and henchies does not solve the problem with the AI. It side steps it...

Second problem. AI is not a balanced even numbered group or even levels with even and balanced skills. The AI has more numbers; has higher damage; has more health; more armor and bosses have double hitting power plus half the condition and hex duration. The AI is overpowered in this way to make up for lack of "smarts". If the AI is made to act and react like a PvPer, then all the above listed things need to be readjusted. If not, then those praising the new broken AI, would need to compare a GvG match against 30 times the foes that can two hit your monk, insta-strip that prot spirit you are thinking about using and interupt that 1/4 cast timed spell with an arrow launched from a long bow... when you can honestly come out and say "that's fun and not frustrating" let me know.

Third, one of the better and more fun things in PvE is the ability to make the absolute worst build work. In PvP all I've ever seen is "builds" that vary very little. In PvE, not so. Is that because it's easy? Probably, but that flexablity is part of the charm and fun. Forcing players to take skills just to stay alive kills that... just as those players preaching the "take a snare" when the AI was first changed.

Lastly, and this is for Anet: Stop trying to shove PvP and PvE together. Many PvPers are not happy about AI in the PvP game, and many PvEers are not happy with the wanna-be PvP AI. It's ticking people off and ruining the fun.

QFT!
I have tried PVP on several occassions and I hate it.
I read some PVP people are unhappy with heroes in the arena.

I'm currently not playing GW and my rehab cycle is nearly complete - 2 weeks without any serious play (I dive in for 5 mins to see if they've fixed the stupid AI yet - and even now I've stopped that coz reading the forums will let me know).
Cold turkey worked! - some weekend I played for only 8-10 hours but I pretty much played daily.... I'M CURED! PRAISE ANET!

Could you imagine if WOW did this....lol

Just an observation I had that I thought was funny:

Before release, the one thing people were complaining (or... umm... discussing?) about were the inscriptions, and how the economy is going to be screwed, etc. etc. And the one thing that was discussed very little, and when it was, was being praised, were the heroes.

Now? Well, take a look around, it's the exact opposite. The economy is fine (except for complaints about chests, which no one saw coming), and the only thing people are bitching about are the heroes. Just so... ironic.

I really feel for ANET. They put in an awesome feature and instead of people praising them, they get a face full of crap for their efforts.

People don't want a non flawless feature that's probably why.

As for me I want Guild Wars, the land, the monsters, the UI as a big time grind, easy monsters, make money money money game that's how I like it. I can't find any other game that is like that because no other game copies GW to that extent.

I was just discussing this with some guildies...

I like this game, I've liked it overall since I bought it. Factions, I didn't like so much but I tolerated it and in some ways it helped me like the game even more. That being said...

Farming is what some of us (in the guild) did for amusement, for fun, after exhausting the campaign. My guild is PvE exclusive, pretty much. Call us scrubs or whatever you feel like inflating your ego with. We don't Faction grind, we don't grind period.

I've never seen farming as a grind, I saw it as a way to fill some things and maybe get a cool item in the process. It used to be fun (yes BLASPHEMY farming was fun to me). PvP at it's core is fun to me as well, but it's ruined by the typical MMO environment. I've heard "QQ nub" more than I've heard "thanks" in this game (outside of the guild).

A few of us are just getting bored. There's only so much PvE content to hold us now that the group farming methods are pretty much shot. Solo builds work but I thought the point of this game was to hang out with other people while you did stuff.

I'm just saying, I don't agree with the changes made in that area. Inscriptions, woot. Heros, woot woot. Me not having fun after depleting the "new game" feel? Not so woot.

I'm getting bored. Simple as that. Insult, please.

What should have been a huge improvement in GW and revitalised the entire community has been marred for several people by the AI update.
Something which has nothing to do with Nightfall game itself.

Anet need to look at what people like to do and make their game more like that. Surely they have statistics on what people like to do and what they don't ... if they're going to increase player base give them more of what they already like.
If people like farming - so what Anet - let them farm...

They have 2 chapters of data to enhance the NF experience and NF seems to be a great game but for the AI changes.

No need for flames - everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Just one question: What do you mean "...group farming methods are pretty much shot"? Honestly, I haven't seen this at all. People are complaining about not being able to solo in many areas, but grouping seems very much alive. Just color me confused on that bit.

here is my opinion on this, nightfall is new, there are greens in night fall, (and an elite mission coming) its just that not everyone knows where the greens are, or the good chest runs, or solo builds for any of that...the farming time will come, hopefully

oh and if u wanted to post farming spots go for it