[Dev Update]: Domain of Anguish - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 10:18 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetris L

What exactly do you have in mind? A farming area with foes of moderate difficulty who drop great loot? A "cash machine" area for the average cookie cutter solo farming build? I really hope that ANet do not intend to add such an area!

Oh ... wait a second ... they already have. Most of the game fits that description.

How about large areas with repeatable quests that are fun to play and of mounting difficulty? Something, anything a bit more lighthearted than DoA to play around in after completing the Nightfall storyline. Areas like UW, FoW and SF spring to mind, obviously.

Because right now there's nothing. Nothing at all. Nightfall really is as someone titled a recent thread a 'short-lived thrill ride'. It's a great game, but it's a dead-end for none 'elite' PvE.

And what harm would it do if such areas allow people to make gold at the same rate as currently existing areas allow for? Farmers can only play in one area at a time, they won't suddenly be earning more wealth.

Bowman Artemis

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Gold Coast, Australia.

Overclockers Australia [OCAU]

13 Dec 2006 at 10:19 - 122

At the risk of being called an "ass" a "troll" and being accused of posting "flamebait" I will add my $0.02.

I'll keep it short.

Elite - Not average.
Intended for hardcore players, not casual.
Gems are worth a lot, don't buy 'em, earn 'em.
You don't need the stuff from there.
If you only play 1-2 hours a day, you are not hardcore and thus, this area is not for you.
This is meant to be an accomplishment to differentiate people that have devoted ridiculous amounts of time and effort to earning a reward that very few people have.

Really short version: THIS IS FOR HARDCORE PLAYERS, NOT CASUAL OR AVERAGE PEOPLE. IF YOU ARE AVERAGE OR CASUAL, LET THE HARDCORE PLAYERS HAVE THEIR 0.5% OF THE GAME. There is another 99.5% of a game out there for you and a myriad of different skinned items, armors and so on and so forth. Stop being selfish.

Grolubao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Almada, Portugal

Silêncio Nocturno

Mo/A

13 Dec 2006 at 10:20 - 123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastian

QFT.

To all those that are complaining about the difficulty/replay-ability of DoA:

1. Please consider that this is not a part of the game you need to beat.

2. Please keep in mind that there are quite a number of players that are looking for something this difficult in order to present them with a challenging end-game.

3. The items that you are able to receive from the rewards in this mission are really no different than anything you can create from gold items/find on most greens. The only difference is it allows those that take the time to complete the mission a chance to show off the different skins.

While, I can understand the frustration some of you have about a lack of end-game content - the end-game for guild wars can really be found in the name of the game "Guild Wars". There is really nothing inherently related to guilds warring in the PvE content; meaning that for those of you that don't PvP, perhaps you chose the wrong game.

Personally, I do both and have completed chapters/quests/missions with numerous players and still haven't finished nearly as much as I would like to. There is always something to do, you just need to find out what suits your needs. If its not DoA - then do something else. If you can't find something, maybe you chose the wrong game.

1. SF wasn't also a place needed in order to beat the game. Yet, everyone enjoyed it.
2. Some people aren't the majority of the community, and believe me, the majority is upset with DoA, just look at the number of districts upon the release and now and take your own conclusions.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 10:22 - 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

There is another 99.5% of a game out there for you, stop being selfish.

Well, you're just 100% plain wrong there. There's nothing out there. Just a storyline and then a huge black hole, no non elite endgame content at all.

Bowman Artemis

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Gold Coast, Australia.

Overclockers Australia [OCAU]

13 Dec 2006 at 10:22 - 125

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grolubao

1. SF wasn't also a place needed in order to beat the game. Yet, everyone enjoyed it.
2. Some people aren't the majority of the community, and believe me, the majority is upset with DoA, just look at the number of districts upon the release and now and take your own conclusions.

It's not designed for the majority, it's designed for the hardcore few.

dwc89

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

earth

13 Dec 2006 at 10:23 - 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We are going to continue to monitor the Domain of Anguish. We want this to be the high-end are of the game, of course, and to retain its specialness and its challenge. It's an Elite area, obviously, and in truth we cannot say that it's intended even for the majority of players. But we certainly intend for it, while challenging, to also be a lot of fun! Please continue to share your thoughts and we'll be reading!

Hmmm............. not intended for the majority, then get the razah out of there. Though I like the challenge, I also like playing GWs with my friends. And guess what, this has killed GWs for them - in particular NF. It's not the Elite mission area by itself , it's the lack of something in between.

I have noticed a marked decrease in districts throughout GWs since DoA was opened. Have heard the usual BS about school, etc from other posters as to why the numbers are down. ( this is american districts) I'm sure Wintersday will bring people out to have some fun. And I for one will enjoy.

By only creating an area that caters to so few you screwed up big time. I guess as long as the few that are really enjoying this are happy so be it.

I'm going to hang in and play a game I happen to enjoy a lot, even as my friends list shows more and more inactive. And yes that includes plating in DoA - as long as one can get a group.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 10:23 - 127

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

It's not designed for the majority, it's designed for the hardcore few.

And that's great. Now, when are they going to offer something for the majority?

Bowman Artemis

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Gold Coast, Australia.

Overclockers Australia [OCAU]

13 Dec 2006 at 10:25 - 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Well, you're just 100% plain wrong there. There's nothing out there. Just a storyline and then a huge black hole, no non elite endgame content at all.

Have you completed all the quests? How are your titles looking? Can you not rush through the game and finish it in 2 weeks, then complain about there being nothing to do? I still haven't completed nightfall, by the time I have, chapter 4 will have rolled around. There is UW, FoW, try doing them differently, maybe set yourself some challenges, do an all-caster UW run perhaps. Tried a full, 8 mesmer FoW run before?

There are plenty of things out there if you only want to look. Try setting yourself some goals and challenges.

Bowman Artemis

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Gold Coast, Australia.

Overclockers Australia [OCAU]

13 Dec 2006 at 10:28 - 129

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwc89

Hmmm............. not intended for the majority, then get the razah out of there. Though I like the challenge, I also like playing GWs with my friends. And guess what, this has killed GWs for them - in particular NF. It's not the Elite mission area by itself , it's the lack of something in between.

I have noticed a marked decrease in districts throughout GWs since DoA was opened. Have heard the usual BS about school, etc from other posters as to why the numbers are down. ( this is american districts) I'm sure Wintersday will bring people out to have some fun. And I for one will enjoy.

By only creating an area that caters to so few you screwed up big time. I guess as long as the few that are really enjoying this are happy so be it.

I'm going to hang in and play a game I happen to enjoy a lot, even as my friends list shows more and more inactive. And yes that includes plating in DoA - as long as one can get a group.

Ok, so far we have had:

Sorrows Furnace as an average PvE endgame area in Prophecies.
Alliance Battles as an additional endgame PvP area in Factions.
Domain of Anguish as a hardcore PvE endgame area in Nightfall.

I'd say we'll see a pattern coming from this in the next few chapters.

Quote:

And that's great. Now, when are they going to offer something for the majority?

Well, I've noticed these things listed above that cater to different specific demographics. There is also the storyline, quests, sidequests, questlines and so on. Only today I found a quest that was labelled "Difficulty: Expert" in red text, never encountered one of them before, I gave it a go, it's only short and it was plenty challenging, but not over the top. I definitely wouldn't attempt it under level 15 though.

Duly Thankful

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 10:28 - 130

'The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

If Anet decide that not enough people are attempting DoA they will change it in some way. Yes, its Elite. But to me, this means that it should be difficult to finish not difficult to start!

Grolubao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Almada, Portugal

Silêncio Nocturno

Mo/A

13 Dec 2006 at 10:30 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

It's not designed for the majority, it's designed for the hardcore few.

When u work on application consultancy like I do and u ask the clients ifthey would like this feature, etc, they will tell you one of 2 things:

1 - Great, do that since most people will use it.
2 - Dump it, I believe only a small percentage of it will be using, and I'm not spending money on a feature that will only be used by a small percentage.

So you're telling me a company did a area for niche players and that is good, they can start forgetting about the other 90% of the players, ok...

Grolubao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Almada, Portugal

Silêncio Nocturno

Mo/A

13 Dec 2006 at 10:31 - 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duly Thankful

'The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

If Anet decide that not enough people are attempting DoA they will change it in some way. Yes, its Elite. But to me, this means that it should be difficult to finish not difficult to start!

Very good point Duly.

Bowman Artemis

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Gold Coast, Australia.

Overclockers Australia [OCAU]

13 Dec 2006 at 10:34 - 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grolubao

When u work on application consultancy like I do and u ask the clients ifthey would like this feature, etc, they will tell you one of 2 things:

1 - Great, do that since most people will use it.
2 - Dump it, I believe only a small percentage of it will be using, and I'm not spending money on a feature that will only be used by a small percentage.

So you're telling me a company did a area for niche players and that is good, they can start forgetting about the other 90% of the players, ok...

Get this: The game industry is very different to the standard software industry. There will be companies that go for the niche market, especially in MMOs.

Anet have in the past catered to the PvPers and the softcore PvEers. I think that hardcore PvEers have stayed away from the game because it poses no real challenge. With areas like this being introduced, anet will attract a new market sector, it will take time, but it'll happen eventually.

Also wanted to add:

They catered to other niche markets with the features I listed above:

Alliance Battles
Sorrows Furnace
Domain of Anguish

All of them have niche target audiences.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 10:35 - 134

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

Have you completed all the quests? How are your titles looking? Can you not rush through the game and finish it in 2 weeks, then complain about there being nothing to do? I still haven't completed nightfall, by the time I have, chapter 4 will have rolled around. There is UW, FoW, try doing them differently, maybe set yourself some challenges, do an all-caster UW run perhaps. Tried a full, 8 mesmer FoW run before?

There are plenty of things out there if you only want to look. Try setting yourself some goals and challenges.

I've taken one character through the game now. Took me 6 weeks, no rushing at all, meticulously exploring every region, every area. Did all quest. Capped all elites. Mastered all missions. Explored 100%. Levelled all heroes. Got challenge mission armor for all of them.

And then... nothing... Except the DoA, or starting over with a new character, or an existing character from another chapter. I will eventually do that, but if that's all Nightfall has to offer, it's just not enough. The game needs end game content.

UW and FoW don't count. I still play those, but that's because there's nothing else. Sure, they are core areas, but I bought a new game so I'm looking for new content.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

13 Dec 2006 at 10:36 - 135

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

And that's great. Now, when are they going to offer something for the majority?

The majority has 3 chapters to play in, isn't that enough? Why do you want everything to suit your needs? That's egoistic behaviour. It's only normal the real hardcore people get something to keep them busy. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I'm certainly not an elite player but I'm a veteran and believe me I do have my ups and downs too.

Just got wiped at the end of foundry. We even got the general and captain npc and stuff but the final battle proved to be too much. Ok I'm a little pissed about that but I'm not gonna ask anet to nerf things because we were not good enough. Learn and adjust. If you can't, stay out of doa.

If you really want a challenge, go for doa. It will keep you busy for a while exactly what endgame content should do. If it was easy, you'll be bored again soon after completing it in no time. Grow some muscles sorta speek, use your brain.

I do understand the problem to get Razah, it's only a ritualist hero after all.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

13 Dec 2006 at 10:39 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grolubao

2 - Dump it, I believe only a small percentage of it will be using, and I'm not spending money on a feature that will only be used by a small percentage.

So you're telling me a company did a area for niche players and that is good, they can start forgetting about the other 90% of the players, ok...

a business application and elite game content are 2 different things

by your same logic,
"Faction held towns" and Deep/Urgoz's Warren should be scrapped from Factions

*it doesnt apply*

I personally do not goto Elite areas in any of the chapters but it doesnt affect my enjoyment of GW

I'm happy the content is there for others

Bowman Artemis

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Gold Coast, Australia.

Overclockers Australia [OCAU]

13 Dec 2006 at 10:39 - 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I've taken one character through the game now. Took me 6 weeks, no rushing at all, meticulously exploring every region, every area. Did all quest. Capped all elites. Mastered all missions. Explored 100%. Levelled all heroes. Got challenge mission armor for all of them.

And then... nothing... Except the DoA, or starting over with a new character, or an existing character from another chapter. I will eventually do that, but if that's all Nightfall has to offer, it's just not enough. The game needs end game content.

UW and FoW don't count. I still play those, but that's because there's nothing else. Sure, they are core areas, but I bought a new game so I'm looking for new content.

You got a whole new world, you got new titles, armor, weapons, crafting materials etc.

Do you have every grandmaster cartographer title? Have you maxxed every title? Until you can honestly tell me that you have maxxed every title, you can't say you've finished it all.

For endgame content, you have your little casual PvE niche in prophecies, the hardcores don't have their niche yet, or didn't until DoA came along.

I'm off to bed now, I'll check the thread in the morning.

Grolubao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Almada, Portugal

Silêncio Nocturno

Mo/A

13 Dec 2006 at 10:49 - 138

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

Get this: The game industry is very different to the standard software industry. There will be companies that go for the niche market, especially in MMOs.

Anet have in the past catered to the PvPers and the softcore PvEers. I think that hardcore PvEers have stayed away from the game because it poses no real challenge. With areas like this being introduced, anet will attract a new market sector, it will take time, but it'll happen eventually.

Also wanted to add:

They catered to other niche markets with the features I listed above:

Alliance Battles
Sorrows Furnace
Domain of Anguish

All of them have niche target audiences.

As simple as this, if people want real grind go to WoW, everbody knows this. Been there, done that, and I personally don't like the grind. If people is in GW is because they personally don't like the grind. My whole previous guild moved to WoW because they wanted the grind that GW wasn't offering. Do you really believe that they will come back now that GW has opened DoA for them?
SF wasn't niche, everybody played it, heck even today a lot of people play SF, because it's fun, it has challenge but still will draw the attention of all the people.

Sure elite missions in factions were difficult, but they were doable by most people with a balanced team. Finding a PUG wasn't such a pain as DoA is.
Having never overcome the first 2 mobs of City of Orqu'a is in my opinion a sign of something going real wrong.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

13 Dec 2006 at 10:53 - 139

I still say the #1 issue with DoA is the acquisition of Razah. People keep saying "You don't have to do this - there is plenty of other things to do for the casual player", but the issue stands that if soemone wants to have a Ritualist Hero (a very real and important aspect of the game - not just vanity), they have to do DoA, or grind enough cash to buy gems off another player. Remember the whole "skill>grind" thing?

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 10:54 - 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

The majority has 3 chapters to play in, isn't that enough? Why do you want everything to suit your needs? That's egoistic behaviour. It's only normal the real hardcore people get something to keep them busy. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I'm certainly not an elite player but I'm a veteran and believe me I do have my ups and downs too.

I bought a new game that cost me full price. Not an expansion. The other 2 chapters don't come into the picture. It's not unreasonable or egoistical to expect that this new game I bought offers me some replay value. And what if I didn't have any of the previous chapters? Oh right, I could go play FoW and UW right? As it happens, I do own the previous chapters and I played FoW and UW for one and a half years. I don't expect to be pay for them three times, and don't expect to be pointed to those places again after I bought what's purportedly a stand-alone game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Just got wiped at the end of foundry. We even got the general and captain npc and stuff but the final battle proved to be too much. Ok I'm a little pissed about that but I'm not gonna ask anet to nerf things because we were not good enough. Learn and adjust. If you can't, stay out of doa.

My beef isn't about being or not being able to succeed at the DoA. It's about there being nothing else. To be frank, I haven't even given it a fair shot. The thing is, my guild hasn't played enough characters through the game to field a decent team, and I'm not going to bother with PuGs again. I'd rather stick hot needles under my fingernails while chewing on glass. Unfortunately, my guild probably won't ever have a good enough variety of characters at the DoA, because no one is really very pumped to put more characters through the storyline. DoA isn't enough incentive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

If you really want a challenge, go for doa. It will keep you busy for a while exactly what endgame content should do.

A challenge is fine, but that's the only attraction DoA has. I also expect some fun.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

13 Dec 2006 at 10:59 - 141

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grolubao

My whole previous guild moved to WoW because they wanted the grind that GW wasn't offering. Do you really believe that they will come back now that GW has opened DoA for them?

no they wont

but there are existing players in GW that have wanted tougher challenges in GW and they were not sufficiently challenged in GW PVE until DOA was introduced

Kalki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Summoners of Forgotten Gods

W/Mo

13 Dec 2006 at 11:05 - 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grolubao

Sure elite missions in factions were difficult, but they were doable by most people with a balanced team. Finding a PUG wasn't such a pain as DoA is. Having never overcome the first 2 mobs of City of Orqu'a is in my opinion a sign of something going real wrong.

LOL?

Rather than do all this complaining why don't you just join one of my groups for the City, and I'll take your through the whole thing in 2-3 hours with no deaths? Or would you then complain the City is too easy?

I really lauging my ass off here at all these people asking for more areas like Sorrow's Furnace. Sorrow's Furnace was NOTHING MORE than a green farming area. Want more areas like it? Guess what! 90% of the explorable areas in Factions and Nightfall have bosses with greens. Those are the Sorrow's Furnace type areas you're asking for. Or do you want to see a return of the "gear trick", and that ridiculously easy farm?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

My beef isn't about being or not being able to succeed at the DoA. It's about there being nothing else. To be frank, I haven't even given it a fair shot. The thing is, my guild hasn't played enough characters through the game to field a decent team, and I'm not going to bother with PuGs again. I'd rather stick hot needles under my fingernails while chewing on glass. Unfortunately, my guild probably won't ever have a good enough variety of characters at the DoA, because no one is really very pumped to put more characters through the storyline. DoA isn't enough incentive.

So you're doing all this complaining on your friends behalf? You should really try DoA first. If you liked 8-man FoW/UW groups I think you'll love DoA.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

13 Dec 2006 at 11:08 - 143

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I'm not going to bother with PuGs again. I'd rather stick hot needles under my fingernails while chewing on glass.

Well I did the city with a pug and that foundry run was with a pug too. So it's still possible to find a good group. Mostly it starts with a good leader that knows some tricks and stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

A challenge is fine, but that's the only attraction DoA has. I also expect some fun.

You expect some fun, I wonder what you mean by this. Killing some average groups and clear the place in no time and get some good drops?

Actually I'm having some fun now, learning new things for the first time again in months. Why don't you try to hook up with some good DoA players who're willing to take you along? You might actually enjoy it and you can pass on the knowledge amongst friends and guild members etc

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 11:10 - 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

You got a whole new world, you got new titles, armor, weapons, crafting materials etc.

Seen every nook and cranny of the new world. I got those new titles, I have every title introduced by Nightfall maxed. I could take some cash from my storage and get one of every armor Nightfall offers, but that's kind of pointless is it? Same goes for weapons. I don't know what to make of the crafting materials bit. Yeah, I got crafting materials. Had them for ages? What's your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

Do you have every grandmaster cartographer title?

Yes, and every protector title too, and 291 elites capped, Holy Lightbringer, Sunspear Castellan and Incorrigible Ale Hound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

Have you maxxed every title?

No, I haven't completed the grind ones. I'd love to have some fresh new fun endgame content to play through so I can work on Treasure Hunter while enjoying the game. Doing chest runs isn't my thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

Until you can honestly tell me that you have maxxed every title, you can't say you've finished it all.

Well, it's your choice to be contrary. More reasonable people wouldn't think Treasure Hunter and Wisdom Seeker need to be maxed before one is considered to have completed the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

For endgame content, you have your little casual PvE niche in prophecies, the hardcores don't have their niche yet, or didn't until DoA came along.

We're not talking about Prophecies. Prophecies is fine. Nightfall is the chapter that doesn't deliver.

Grolubao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Almada, Portugal

Silêncio Nocturno

Mo/A

13 Dec 2006 at 11:21 - 145

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

no they wont

but there are existing players in GW that have wanted tougher challenges in GW and they were not sufficiently challenged in GW PVE until DOA was introduced

Do you really thing that's a big portion of the community? Because don't give me that conversation that Anet is trying to please niche players, because this is game industry and stuff don't work that way, because that's totally not true.

Believe they designed DoA and though that more people would play it but that isn't simply happening.

Nexus Icon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Natis Ignigena

Me/

13 Dec 2006 at 11:25 - 146

As for all the people trying to seperate business software from leisure software, you're HORRIBLY wrong.
The comparison IS valid.
If you start to scare off the majority because they believe that you're only willing to cater to the few, you very quickly lose ALL revenue.
The experience of using business and leisure software may be different, but the sales models are identical.
Engage brain before posting, please.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 11:27 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

I really lauging my ass off here at all these people asking for more areas like Sorrow's Furnace. Sorrow's Furnace was NOTHING MORE than a green farming area. Want more areas like it? Guess what! 90% of the explorable areas in Factions and Nightfall have bosses with greens. Those are the Sorrow's Furnace type areas you're asking for. Or do you want to see a return of the "gear trick", and that ridiculously easy farm?

That says a lot about you and your view of the game. Your views aren't an absolute. You see, I've never farmed for greens. But I've played the SF quests on all my characters. They're good fun, and nothing in Nightfall comes even close to the awesomeness of the Iron Forgeman. Abbadon himself is just a pathetic copy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

So you're doing all this complaining on your friends behalf? You should really try DoA first. If you liked 8-man FoW/UW groups I think you'll love DoA.

No, I'm complaining on my own behalf. I'd like some fun new content. I've always found 8 man groups in those places a little too easy, but our 3 to 6 man guild groups still have a hoot going there once in a while. Sure, I bet DoA is a nice enough challenge, but I don't have enough hours to waste on pugging the place. I've tried, and by the time I find a group and before that group is ready to go, I've burnt up more than half my gaming hours for the day. Not worth it.

Grolubao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Almada, Portugal

Silêncio Nocturno

Mo/A

13 Dec 2006 at 11:36 - 148

Kalki I don't have to join ur groups to finish DoA, I should have the possibility to join a random group and have success I say in 30% of the times in my opinion.
There was a thread here that it talked about the difficulty and the time consumed in trying to find a PUG that is totally true.
Imagine you wanted to do DoA and are willing to spend some time finding a nice group. You try for 2h finding a group, hours that you are spending just spamming on the chat or finding a need for your class. Then another hour just having some people leaving, then you realized you just wasted 3h of your life that you could have used to do something else and that you hadn't had a bit of fun, because you just used the guild chat.

What I am saying isn't that DoA isn't doable, I know it is, it's just a area must be designed to be done by a PUG rather than a guild and if I'm inserted in a guild that mainly does GvG I'm restricted to that area.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

13 Dec 2006 at 11:37 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

As for all the people trying to seperate business software from leisure software, you're HORRIBLY wrong.
The comparison IS valid.
If you start to scare off the majority because they believe that you're only willing to cater to the few, you very quickly lose ALL revenue.
The experience of using business and leisure software may be different, but the sales models are identical.
Engage brain before posting, please.

The comparison maybe valid but the rest you say is not.

Give people a finger and they want your whole arm. Do you really imply that Anet caters to the few? Since launch everything has been done for the majority and average players. Green items, inscriptions, almost everything except for DoA. It's not enough it seems. You want the only real difficult place to be nerfed too. And then what, you play it a few times and make a post you're bored and want new content. Or you start farming gems and get the elite items so you can feel good. That's fooling yourself.

Kalki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Summoners of Forgotten Gods

W/Mo

13 Dec 2006 at 11:38 - 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Sure, I bet DoA is a nice enough challenge, but I don't have enough hours to waste on pugging the place. I've tried, and by the time I find a group and before that group is ready to go, I've burnt up more than half my gaming hours for the day. Not worth it.

That's your problem, not Anet's, not the people that made DoA, not the community, only yours. If you don't know how to find a good PuG by now, you never will. I'll give you a hint though. Don't join groups with players named "Yo Sucka U My Biiatch" (random name to make a point, I don't know if it's a real name or not) especially if said player is the leader. Joining a PuG with TS or Vent also gives you a better chance that they will be a quality group.

I spent 10 minutes LFG yesterday before I got in a good group that was ready to roll. We failed the Stygian Veil halfway through, lost a couple members, regrouped, and beat it in 2 1/2 hours. No yelling. No bitching. Everyone seemed happy at the end. I think I even made a few new friends. That's what MMO's are supposed to be like right?

Grolubao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Almada, Portugal

Silêncio Nocturno

Mo/A

13 Dec 2006 at 11:59 - 151

That's not totally true Etrik, I've bought my FOW armor and I could have bought myself since I had the money, but instead I prefered farming it because it would give me a better sense of accomplishment. As for DoA it doesn't give me any sense of accomplishment do buy the gems instead of doing it.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

13 Dec 2006 at 12:45 - 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

It's an Elite area, obviously, and in truth we cannot say that it's intended even for the majority of players.

"The majority of PvE players are intended to have a disadvantage to PvP players by not having access to the only Rit hero in the game"

...
What the bloody hell??

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 12:49 - 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

That's your problem, not Anet's, not the people that made DoA, not the community, only yours. If you don't know how to find a good PuG by now, you never will. I'll give you a hint though. Don't join groups with players named "Yo Sucka U My Biiatch" (random name to make a point, I don't know if it's a real name or not) especially if said player is the leader. Joining a PuG with TS or Vent also gives you a better chance that they will be a quality group.

You're absolute right, that's my problem. But you know what? It's a problem for a lot of people. And that's why I have an issue with Nightfall. It doesn't deliver if you're not 'hardcore'. I have no issue with DoA at all, you see. I have a huge issue with there being nothing ELSE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

I spent 10 minutes LFG yesterday before I got in a good group that was ready to roll. We failed the Stygian Veil halfway through, lost a couple members, regrouped, and beat it in 2 1/2 hours.

Let's see... 2 1/2 hours to complete it. Is it safe to say your halfway through attempt took half of that? 1 1/4 hours? Add 10 minutes for the grouping up, and I'm looking at 4 hours of play. Wonderful, that's twice what I can spend on a regular night. And I don't get many nights that aren't regular. And when I can spend some more time with the game, I tend to be afk at least 15 minutes on the hour. You know, familiy, responsibilities. Sure, that's ALL my problem. Now, what the hell does this brand new stand-alone game have to offer for people like me? Nothing, Nada, zilch. And don't tell me there's Prophecies or Factions. I'm talking abut Nightfall, a game that can't offer enough content for 6 weeks of casual play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

No yelling. No bitching. Everyone seemed happy at the end. I think I even made a few new friends. That's what MMO's are supposed to be like right?

Well, don't play games to make faceless superficial friends over the internet, but that's neither here nor there.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

13 Dec 2006 at 12:53 - 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

"The majority of PvE players are intended to have a disadvantage to PvP players by not having access to the only Rit hero in the game"

...
What the bloody hell??

That is what I'm sayin! Arrgh! Why is no one else upset about this? Please, DoA is fine, leave it alone... just remove anything to do with acquiring Razah!

Lavindathar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Manchester, England

The Monstrous Fangs (fang)

N/Mo

13 Dec 2006 at 12:54 - 155

The challenge was in the difficulty of DoA.
The rewards desirability are always based on the difficulty to obtain them.

Like I said earlier, revert back to the old gem costs, let the 1% of us that want it keep a hardcore area. Other have the deep, urgoz, SF, and countless missions across 3 chapters.

Keep DoA how it was...the fun is not being able to beat it. The fun is trying to beat it. Joy comes when you DO beat it.

Woop Shotty

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ruthless Mafia [RM]

Mo/

13 Dec 2006 at 13:01 - 156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickhimself

I think you misinterprety how they intend you to actually gain these Gems: Through hard work and effort. Not through WTB GEMS PM W/ PRICE!

Going from 25 to 15 of each AND doubling the drop rate is MORE than enough. Instead of 100 Gems, it's only 60. That's almost half of what it was.

How about, instead of buying the Gems, you actually go into the DoA areas and.....earn them?

If I have a green worth 100k, and it's extra special to me, I will hold on to it and even customize it.

If I have 60 gemstones, and I have the choice of selling it for money that could be used to buy multiple sets of obsidian armor, or to redeem it for a torment weapon, which do you think I will choose?

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

13 Dec 2006 at 13:11 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

Prophecies was fine. It's not any more. And I highly doubt you have every title introduced by NF maxed. Can I see a pic of your Spearmarshal title showing?

Duh, if you scroll up a bit, you'll see that I already stated I have Spearmarshall Castellan. Got it before I knew I had to use a ridiculous trick to get any further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

Oh, and if you're such a 'leet' player and took the time to get 3 GMCs (which is NOT easy to get and is more of a grind than DoA could ever be), how are you having problems with DoA - and don't give me the 'it's boring grinding' part.

Are you kidding? Getting 3 GMCs is a walk in the park and involves no grinding at all. When I got my Tyria GMC I still had huge misty spots on the map. They're practically giving away GMC for Tyria. Factions was a bit tougher and needed some serious wall-hugging, but I did that on my first playthrough. Nightfall GMC is again pretty easy. I got 99.5% without doing much wallhugging at all. How is visiting every place on the map only once supposed to be 'grinding' anyway? It doesn't involve any repetition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

IAH, HL (gotten via afk farming I presume)

Of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

and if you have so much money that you could buy Jewel armor, which cost upwards of 200k

I had enough sapphires and rubies tucked away to make 3 Vabbian armor before Nightfall even went live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

why don't you just buy the gems and stop bitching? Your post is comprised of bragging and yet more bragging and bears no relevance to the topic at hand.

I posted my intention to buy the gems TWICE in this very thread. I also never uttered a word of significant disapproval against DoA. I'm just ticked off that there's no other, more casual, endgame at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

It's fine, learn to play.

I agree, DoA is fine, learn to read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

Oh, and please stick your head out of your ***.

I'd offer you the same piece of advice, but I won't because that would be flaming. If you did, you could have tried to read what I've been saying in this thread and realized I don't have any issues at all with DoA the way it is before you took it upon yourself to pick my post apart.

Fates

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Kanuckistan

Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

13 Dec 2006 at 13:16 - 158

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

That is what I'm sayin! Arrgh! Why is no one else upset about this? Please, DoA is fine, leave it alone... just remove anything to do with acquiring Razah!

Why are so many people up in arms about Razah? When I'm on my rit, no groups will take me anywhere. For the most part, rits are considered useless. So why all the sudden is everyone concerned that they can't have a rit hero? I know I sure as heck wouldn't waste a hero slot on a rit.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

13 Dec 2006 at 13:25 - 159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

Why are so many people up in arms about Razah? When I'm on my rit, no groups will take me anywhere. For the most part, rits are considered useless. So why all the sudden is everyone concerned that they can't have a rit hero? I know I sure as heck wouldn't waste a hero slot on a rit.

I for one could use a Spawning Rit with Shelter/Union as I'm running around in areas where the mobs AoE spike everyone.
Rits are like Mesmers. Misunderstood and highly undervalued. In a similar way, who wanted Norgu if no one wants mesmers in their group? Yet Norgu's quest is easy to do so you get a Mesmer hero - whether you're gonna use him or not. Same goes for the Assassin hench.

Bastian

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/A

13 Dec 2006 at 13:31 - 160

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

"The majority of PvE players are intended to have a disadvantage to PvP players by not having access to the only Rit hero in the game"

...
What the bloody hell??

Razah = 6,000 faction.

If you PvP - this is easy to get.

So why do YOU not have access to him?

Better yet, why are you PvPing (definition: player vs. PLAYER) with heroes?