[Dev Update] Heroes' Ascent Changes Coming

Rank is fine. The idea is to make the step from r0 to r3 a fun and useful experience.

To Gimme Money Please
Quote:
Originally Posted by elsalamandra
Well well well!

HA.

Heroes Ascent.

The home of bitter rank discrimination by a few if not many stuck-up full of themsleves players who think they are god's gift to Guild Wars PvP.

I just hope that they make changes to make this more enjoyable for avaerage players and not the atmosphere this place has.

I for one am rank 5 and it cost me a few many months to get to rank 5 and of course many will now make adverse comments to this my reply but I am not bothered with what you may say.

The truth of the matter is that HA constitutes, for unranked players, to spend a lot of time trying to get into any form of team and then, whether by luck or bad luck, they start to progress, high ranked players (names of a few I could mention here but I wont) insult them, humiliate them by using words like these:

NOOB go back to PvE.

I have a brain for sale for each of you noobs.

Rank 1 or 2 = Nooby brainless basher.

Bow to us we pawned you you noobs.

The list could go on and if the OP is to better HA, Gaile these are things that you should know even though you may know already and nothing can be done about these sad individuals, but I sometimes play the devil's advocate.

Breaking news....! We all started at r0. If one wants to get into the game, they will play and break the rank barrier such as you have done. Also, people QQ about rank discrimination, but if you're truly good, you'll be found early on. I played with my first few r9s when i had 177 fame, was running with r9+ groups by r4. Rank discrimination? I think not. Skill discrimination? Yes. Fact of the matter is, lower ranks have a reputation for not being very good because the large majority of them are not very good. They all cry about bitter rank discrimination, etc., etc., but in reality they simply do not have the skills and experience to play with the upper echelons. ZOMFG, I wasn't good enough for the NBA.... DISCRIMINATION.... no, I'm just not good enough. Get over it. Rank really doesn't mean anything, there are numerous high ranks I've had the misfortune of playing with that I would not touch with a 30 foot long pole they're so bad. If one really wants to get into HA, they'll spend the time getting that rank and/or skill, regardless of how much the rank actually means.

__________________________________________________ _______________

LOL. Get over it you say.

I dont have to get over anything dude.

The fact of the matter is that I do not agree with what you say that lower ranked players are 'not good'.

Firstly who are you or me or any other person to judge players just because they dont have the bambi, wolfie etc emote.

I find it very hard to grasp that you played very frequently with rank9 +, sonce you do not specify whether they were PUGed or they were friends/guildies.

No matter what you or I say say, and we can be here discusing this point foerever, it still does not solve the problem of rank discrimination in HA, whether we like it or not.

Obviously, the high ranked players are the ones who argue that there is no such thing in HA and that is just so ironic.

ANET will never ever be able to stop this dead in its tracks unless they devise stages for rank through different area like the arenas that where once in pve, i.e. as an example 1 HA arena for rank 0 to 3, another one for 3+ upwards but that won't be possible.

To explain myself better AND STATING THE OBVIOUS:

A rank 0 player who decides to start HA has 3 things against him when embarking on this venture.

1/ Finding a suitable build (wiki and websites offer some help). But the player has to test them out and adapt as and when required - this is a hindrance in HA where there is so high standards of PVP (i do not condone the high standards btw).

2/ Finding a team may take a long time to achieve for some players. THIS is a fact.

3/ Get insulted or humiliated by some and I say some players who already have rank and who don;t remember when they were rank 0s.

So please don't criticise my post.

What I have posted here and in my previous post whether you like or not are plain and unadulterated facts.

All for now ..........

This is sort of a hidden feature of GW.. and one that people may dispute or ANET may never admit.. but it is true and you would notice it if you played long enough. Tombs seems to give a preference to matching teams by total team rank. Of course that doesn't mean that you won't play teams of all ranks.. Not enough people play... same reason that your idea of a separate arena for unranked people wont work.

Removing fame would just piss off people so there is no solution for you except joining a tombs guild or getting people on friends list to play with.

Rank discrimination is not a problem at all, the fame and rank system should remain as it is now.
Why do people call it discrimination when players simply want to play with others having similar rank? It's a very normal thing that cant be avoided, players with no rank join groups that dont care about rank, players with rank 6 want to play with other rank 6 players and so on.

Think about a new player wanting to join a top guild to play GvG with them, they obviously won't accept him, so is this discrimination too?

Why abuse, why so harsh? I happened to be there, this was an sponteaous event with players joining and adding their messages, not an exploit. It only shows that there are a a big and strong group of players that want 8v8. I meet them everyday.
Removing the trade portion? They used it simply because there were 0 trade posts there, it's Heroes Ascent not Kamadan. They didn't even interrupt all those 5 players LFGing, they used a separate unused section. Removing it would only pour the spam to other sections where it would be much more annoying.
I myself didn't join them as I don't think 8v8 is the only way to go. For me HA has to be balanced, fun to play and appealing to the large majority of players. And i want to see it return to its old glory. So i can't wait to see the incoming changes.

Press 'B'. Yay, observer mode. Now, young buck, go forth and OBSERVE. See what others do. Everyone starts out by copying other builds. People who want to do something original with low-ranked people usually fail. Anyway, of course, learning how to play the maps are hard when you've never been there before and dont know what to do. However, once you have a couple of competent people and some competent strat callers who know what they're doing, it goes a lot easier. The 'N' button is useful too,

*sigh*

I... dont think any one is reall y listening to any one here.. and to be truthfull . i see valid points to both sides . but i seriously agree with it being haerd to even start out in hoh . with soo many not willing to just sdtop and help some one from time to time .. .. ive been there a few times and my expeirence with it was horrible .. i been told to screw off stfu noob etc.. for simply asking questions ... tring to look for a group and basicly getting a feel for it .... an di hate to tell you but watching somthing isnt gonna teach you anything but some skills .. best way for most people to learn is first hand .. and about 80% of you that play hoh wont do it .. but you all forget .. you where once that rank 0 with no knowledge of what the hell you where doing or even where to start .. but eventually some one helped you out .. but instead of changing how all that went and helping some one else out from time to time .. you didnt and now you want to sit here and complain .. well do this and do that and watch this and you will know what your doing .. please .. i did that i got the so called * build* they wanted me to run etc. ran with ranks 7's and you know where it got me .. *kick that noob , he's a moron, etc.. etc.. " and you all call this fun ? lmao i mean seriously .. when i enter hoh .. its like being back in high school .. they are cool becuase they got a rank and your a noob and you suck blah blah blah .. i suck becuase i never been here before .. yes in your eyes i do but in my eyes im learning such as you did once when you first entered hoh your self .!! so stop the nonsince about do this and that and just put out a hand and help instead

Nobody is forcing you to stand around spamming "LFG" if you don't want to. If you consider yourself a good player, then start your own groups and lead other players, then add the good players to your friends list. I got most of my fame by starting my own groups and making friends. Once you make friends rank doesn't matter one bit.

I'm not really sure how you can logically complain about having to test builds, though. And imo, pvp without high standards of play would be pretty boring considering that pvp is all about competition.

Anyway, here's the thing about rank. It doesn't necessarily reflect player skill, but the truly good players (as in players who are genuinely good at the game, and don't just talk a lot on forums) don't stay low ranked for very long. So perhaps you should post less complaints on these forums and go get your rank.
I've had a tiger for a long time now and I still have problems finding PUGs. That's just the nature of spamming all chat for PUGs, trust me, it's not a problem that is exclusive to low ranked players.

Also, most of the teams I see forming in the international districts these days are rank 0-3, so all you people complaining about being left out obviously aren't looking very hard.

If being called names by children offends you so much then perhaps the internet isn't the place for you.


I've been playing tombs since beta, this is not true at all. Please don't spread false information.

perhaps it doesnt effect you and maybe your right but all that shows is there are a bunch of people out there with out morals towards other people nor is there any respect and if i wanted to play with a bunch of juviniel actin g adults teenagers etc....... id go to the park and play some basketball rather then sit here and be called names cuz some one sat in there chair longer then me and played the game ..pfft

It is most noticeable with underworld. If you go between playing in teams of all high rankers then join random invite noobways and tombs is busy enough, you will see it. I didn't say that you would get a no opposing party or anything, it is more subtle. Anyhow, it would take at least 3 teams entering at the same time to prove anything.....You can take my statement or leave it

Now lets get back to talking about how much 6v6 sucks.

looking forward to the changes, I'm not really a ha fan (r5), and have had most fun there with heroway, no waiting till you find a team, funny battles with weird health charts^^

Since heroway was removed from ha, however, I've done about 4 runs or something, and had no fun at all due to extremely boring holding builds.
I like the idea of making the hall of heroes a set of different maps with different victory conditions. This would make the builds more balanced.
I'ld also like more maps like underworld and dark chambers, 1v1 deathmatch.
If things like there are implemented, I'ld probably do some ha again.


as to the rank system, I understand how annoying it is not finding a team, being insulted, etc. just because you are (relatively) new to ha/pvp in general. Imo, the word noob is used way too much by people by people who make mistakes as well (doesn't everyone???).

Guildwars is a game with great PvP, and still lots of unused potential.

another subject, what's happening in gvg now is just annoying, since the last update, rating farming would have been "nerfed", but instead, it has gotten far worse and some guilds are getting an unfair advantage on other by playing
on certain times of the day at which there are almost no other "worthy opponents" available. In general, I get the feeling that a lot of guilds played 1-2 battles and then simply stopped gvg'ing. the guild I'm in is about r250 and about 1/3 battles we played was to rank 50 or "better" guilds.

one final thing, NERF THE SCYTHE, the thing deals WAAAAAAAAAY too much damage for it's attack speed.

Yey nice 1 Anet hopefully ull make things better in HA for both newbies and Veterans. Go go power Anet! keep up the good work & i look forward to the new things u come up with.

I think A.Net must perma ban those people who are using the party search to whine and to convince A.net to bring back 8vs8. Party search isnt made for that crap.

First off, Anet will not abolish the rank/emote system, it has been in place from day one and will upset too many people. Therefore, rank discrimination will remain.

PVP is the ‘flagship’ of Guildwars in Anet’s eyes, (my personal opinion), and the proposed skill balancing will be biased towards the PVP side of the game, (I’ll be very surprised otherwise).

You will not eliminate elitism and obnoxious behaviour, (sadly HA is the worst place in the game for this).

Rank 0 to Rank 3 is an enormous grind with PUG’s and joining an experienced Guild, being unranked, I would imagine be near impossible.

I am interested in seeing the forthcoming updates as if believe Anet has an almost impossible, and thankless, task ahead of them. Particularly if they want to make PVP, HA in particular, more accessible to the GW community. 6v6 is a step in the right direction and should remain.

rofl, are you serious? He is not trying to be your superior, just defending his ideas, which are 100% correct.

Starting off is an issue for some in HA, but rank is a DIRECT indication of experience in HA, and it is obvious that unless players know each other and have played together beforehand, rank is the best indication of how well someone can perform in an HA environment.

Lets look at it this way. Let's say you are doing the quest "Last Day Dawns", which is the titan quest that starts off in Frontier Gate, Old Ascalon. As you may know, this quest is quite challenging and usually results in failure when attempted by random PuGs.
Now Frontier Gate is always full of level 7-8s just because it is very early part of the game. Would you, a level 20 with infused armor and good gear, attempt these quests with this level 7 with very little experience, crappy gear, and absolutely piss skills unlocked?
This is the reason why a ranked person will generally ask for ranked people, whether they are skills players or not.
But unranked players can still find unranked teams, start teams and add people to friend's list. The SB vent is always open to everyone, and vent should enhance communication and therefore increase your chances of getting a decent run.
Eventually you will have a regular team and fame will be something you don't think about anymore.

HA is like PvE: if you want to solo Hell's Precipice (win halls and get high ranked), you must go through the entire game and do quests and farm for experience and cash (get game, build a f-list, get experience).
Anet have been trying their best to make HA more accessible to the newer players (*cough* 6v6, party formation system), but you must not expect them to hand you a f-list and a tiger.
Hell, most of us had to put up with a lot of crap to get our rank (ranger spiking without vent, running horrible builds with horrible pugs), but with dedication and effort we got there and were enjoying HA (until it was made worthless :P).
Now please stop being stupid and claiming that "HA is full of rank descimination! They wont let me run my pro R/Mo hidden healer!" (/wink @ gaile) because if you don't put in the effort, you will never get there.

I disagree. Rank is NOT a direct indication of experience.

Hypothetically:

I play a Ranger. I get to rank 3 playing as a ranger. I wanna play but no one wants a Ranger, so i switch to Monk.

Whats the indication that my rank which gained through one class, indicates my experience in another class?

Do you see a flaw in the system yet?

Another thing that bothers me, is that you can gain fame just via winning the first map over and over through pure grind, you gonna run into a group worse than you sooner or later. You do not need to make it through all the maps, or beat HoH to gain fame.

What experience will a player who reached rank 3, via grinding the first map show?

You compare Rank and HA to the later missions and quests of PvE. This is actually is a good comparison, since you can get run, carried over, and AFK on quests and missions and still reach those later areas without learning anything, just as you can gain rank 3 and still suck.

They do sell it separately. Go to the in-game store, and you can buy a PvP-only edition of the game, no PvE required.

However, PvP is *STILL* required for PvE players to access all of their content. Access to UW and FoW is still controlled through PvP.

ANet seems to think PvE is for people who want funny hats, and PvP is the "real" game. For some of us, PvE *is* the game, and forcing us into PvP is just downright annoying, especially since PvPers have ways "around" PvE now.

At least you have some experience on the maps now, an idea (at least I hope you have) about what skills are good, what skills suck and you'll get an idea of how to run other classes as well (the basics) which gives you more experience then a r0 monk just starting.

I mean, I never played warrior, mostly monking or casters, but when I hear the warriors in my team talking and seem them moving I do get a general idea about how to play with a warrior, which makes me a better warrior then people who are just starting/have much less experience then me.

In this way rank DOES indicate that you have some experience.

i like 6v6,i think its a little less hectic than 8v8 but thats just me.

A player still gains knowledge of the maps, tactics, builds, counters and current metagame. This experience DOES count, because no matter how good of a ranger you are, if you can't identify what your job is on a specific map, against a specific build, then you're basically worthless to your team.

Furthermore, I've found that players will generally say they're bad a certain class if you simply ask them.
How many players do you think got rank 6 by winning Underworld 1000 times, or rank 9 by winning it 4665 times? At the lower ranks it is quite possible to grind out some fame, but if a player is incompetent it wont' take very long for the team to notice.

The flaw in your argument here is that you're equating rank to skill. This isn't always the case - some people pick things up quickly, some need a long time and lots of repetition to get it; however, rank is still the best way to gauge a complete stranger's experience. We all know it's not a perfect system, but it's certainly better than nothing.

We all know there are bad high ranked players, but for someone trying to form a PUG it's just easier to ask for, say, r9+ players and then kick the bad ones than it is to sift through handfuls of people who may have been pvping for all of 5 minutes.

Actually, im equating rank to time spent, not skill.

Rank is not a direct guage at your experience, or skill. (which is my counter to Lord Mendes' obscure comparison to being PvE's higher missions as indication of player skill)

I would definitely agree that it helps somewhat in gauging skill, but its not perfect.

Rank is a shortcut, but talking it out with a potential teammate is still the best route to gauging their skill (IMO). Instantly dismissing someone who doesnt have any rank, when they might be very good players who just havent spent as much time (like you said, some people learn faster) to gain fame is kind of unfair.

Please note im not saying that those with Rank 9+ farmed their way there, unlike PvE, PvP does have a threshhold where dumb luck and fame farming can only take you far.

I do not know what kind of solution there could be to this situation, but whatever changes Anet might propose would surely cause a ruckus.

All that says is that peoploe from [Bite] went into HA and spammed the party search thing. Also all those people should recieve warnings or temporary bans for spamming a very useful feature of the game.

I for one prefer 6v6 and have been trying to make my say to keep it. It is MORE balanced then 8v8 and prevents abuse of stupid builds like IWAY and blood spike. Searing flames is nowhere near as bad as the riddiculous 8v8 builds were, neither is any of the other that are going on. If you dont like 6v6, got do GvG instead.

*Note to Gaile and ANET*

Most of these people begging for 8v8 to come back are people that used to purely play gimmick builds like IWAY / Blood spike / Obi flame spike....

Anyone with a brain and that can be bothered to read skill descriptions and the damage levels can tell that 8v8 was and will still be overpowered in HA due to the abuse of these gimmick builds.

Also, to whoever said get a better infuser... You have most likely never played an infuse monk, and I can tell you the amount skill, reaction time and patience required to play one in 8v8 HA is too much more compared to any other build or character class. 50% of the groups I used to infuse in told me I were fantastic, the other 50% would just spam insults and noob comments at me, not realisng how difficult the build was to play during 8v8.

8v8 was hugely imbalanced, 6v6 is the best way to keep HA. To all the 'leet' ha players that dont like this, stop playing HA, go GvG, and stop being such drama queens over it.

Ok. Reading this post has been extremely infuriating because people are simply being ignorant. Many people talk of rank discrimination and complain about it. IMO you have a very weak arguement because I will not even try to deny that there are bad high ranked players but when was the last time anyone saw a r3 grp hold halls regularly? The point is lower ranked players are almost all not as good as the high ranked ones, now I know many people will say that is not true, but dont bitch about rank discrimination go win halls if you want to prove that you are as good as rank 9s. This game is a competitive role playing game the key word being COMPETITIVE, I am afraid the point is to win hence compeitive. Therefore why should people who have earnt their tigers/phoenixs play with people of a lower skill level that will reduce their chances of winning and as I said earlier if you dont think you are of a lower skill level go prove it by winning halls.
The way I got fame when I was low ranked was to pug and then find some people I got along with and enjoyed playing with and started playing with them regularly and graduallly I built up fame.
I do sympathise with those trying to join ha now, but it is no excuse to complain, HA is not easy, get over it.
The fact that pve ers and low ranks were finding hard to ha is NO excuse for making it 6v6. People who complain about 8v8 are simply people who were not able to beat spike or iway (I hated iway but it is something we all had to deal with).
"i suck becuase i never been here before .. yes in your eyes i do but in my eyes im learning such as you did once when you first entered hoh your self .!!": yeah we all did suck when we first came to hoh ( I have screenshots of myself playing skill bars that make myself laugh), but we all also built up a friends list and built up fame.

No, 6v6 did not ruin HA, it is still just as fun to play now as it ever what.

What 6v6 ruined was IWAY, and spike which require no still whatsoever to play, and now the cry baby 'leet' players that only ever IWAY'd and spiked have had their bottles taken away from them.

GET OVER IT. 6v6 has not ruined aything from a gameplay perspective, it is exactly as much fun to HA now as it ever was.

ANET please stop listening to the whining of these players. You just removed heroes from HA because of their complaing a while back, has that increased the number of players in HA? No it hasnt. In fact people that enjoyed playing hero way like myself are now either playing a lot less or stopped altogether. Bringing back 8v8 will have a similar result, alienating all the people that currently play and are used to 6v6, as they will in turn become fed up of and complain about IWAY and whatever imbalanced spikes are running.

HA used to have 6-8 districts yes, 6-8 districts full of IWAY players lol.

Bhavv you posted while I was writing my pervious one. You are the sort of person who does not know what he is talking about: you say go play GvG if u want 8v8 well if you actually knew a flying F**k about GvG you would know how different it is to HA 8v8. Also 6v6 has ruided game play because we now have 9 proffessions in GW and yet now with 6v6 where 2 are bound to be monks you have 4 character slots to chose between 9 proffessions. 8v8 allowed more creative and a wider range of builds (Im not tryin g to deny that there were a lot of gimmick builds too). Also you say "Also, to whoever said get a better infuser... You have most likely never played an infuse monk, and I can tell you the amount skill, reaction time and patience required to play one in 8v8 HA is too much more compared to any other build or character class. 50% of the groups I used to infuse in told me I were fantastic, the other 50% would just spam insults and noob comments at me, not realisng how difficult the build was to play during 8v8.": in saying that you have just addmitted that the level of skill required in HA has been lowered: what is the point in that HA is meant to be hard it is a COMPETITIVE environment

First of all not speaking by myself but just statistics prove that 8vs8 was more fun,
Second there is no skill in HA at the moment, its called "Build" Wars, as in 8vs8 a r9 IWAY team would bash a r3 IWAY build because of skill it used to be 90% players, 10% builds, now its 90% build you using, 10% player.
Third if you want heroes go play hero battles, and how can you talk about pvp skill if you only like to play with heroes which is Ai?
Fourth, you think all HA districts were IWAY? LOL, for someone that likes heroes and 6vs6 i dont know if you played much 8vs8, and besides, even if that statement is true, sure then we had 8 IWAY districts, now we have 2 zergway/jagged bones districts, wahoo! (not).

Ok for the two who actually posted in this thread that know me may wanna grab some popcorn and read this, for everyone else who doesnt.....well you go get some popcorn as well this may take a while. I will ask ahead of time to please forgive me if anything i say may be...well, mean for lack of better wording. I do see very good points from everybody but theres are a few and names will not be called here that have the same general point and all tend to hint towards their vast experience in HA that theyve been here forever theyre r9 etc etc. Buuuuuuuut first things first.

Personally i am very excited about potential changes to HA and skills and even more so excited about actually having a say in it now. I have never posted in Guru forums before except price check....once....*cough* so i think this whole system to be able to communicate to a-net through Gaile and these forums is extremely good and from what I see there aren't too many games that have this sort of developer/gamer communication. At anyrate changes arent necessarily a "nerf" towards one class and a "buff" towards another nor are they to completely low ball everyone who has been playing whatever theyre changing forever or those who are just starting such as HA in question. Everyone should go into the weekend of the 19th-21st with optimism instead of skeptism. Of course some people are gonna suggest certain changes such as the 8v8 coming back (which I will address later) or burial mounds coming back things like that. You cant get all worked up cause maaaybe your not gonna get what you want. These updates and changes are to keep the game new to ALL players whether if they were here since the first beta or just started yesterday. It keeps the game flowing and active and appealing to new and potential gamers.

Rank Descrimination:
Like most social games, events, etc where your going to be interacting with many many people a form of descrimination will always be appearant, thats just one of those things that you must accept when coming into something such as Guild Wars. Now personally i think rank descrimination is total and utter BS and needs to stop NOW. For people who cant show their rank till r3 anyways....now what about those who are r2 and almost r3 such as myself who is r2 with only 50 fame from r3.....are they to be considered one of the r0 "noobs" as we are referred to so often? say your only 100 fame away from r12 but can only emote r9. Now you totally suck cause your not in the "elitist" club of those who are r12. Its not only hard (but not impossible) to find groups but its disheartening because all these people i see that will be spamming "r6 lf r6+ (insert build name here)" etc etc and wont even give you a PM back saying ok i can play this build i play it all the time in RA, TA, GvG, PvE, and whatever else. Why do these do this? because you cant show some form of rank and you will be the downfall of the group. This is basically a bunch of egotisticle people who probably IWAY farmed their faction now think they are the leetsauce cause they have a pretty tiger. I personally worked and grinded and grinded and worked to even get my 130 some odd fame with Pugs, making groups, running with r9 guild groups that luckily for me didnt care i wasnt ranked, and i still have yet to actually get a group that has won halls. I've been to halls on several occasions dont get me wrong and yet my group has always been just a couple seconds off of winning. But i dont get pissed and rage quit from HA forever....i go replace all the people who did ragequit and try try again....but this was before all this rank descrimination started running rampant. I play on American districts and when i go to HA i start there then eventually hop to international. American districts if im lucky there may be 2 or 3 districts hence i hop to intl. where as of lately has been looking the same way, but the hardcore HA'ers are still there spamming their r6/9 groups of uber leetness. In the past maybe....2 months ive seen HA dropped considerably. Sooo Lately while not in the mood to quest or whatever I've been sitting and watching matches on observer mode...to see what i may be able to do to further myself in the HA scene. I've come to the conclusion that theres not a thing myself nor anyone else can do if you can show off your shiney deer or wolfie or tiger or whatever else. I have the builds down and the maps memorized, so please oh friggin please tell me ,those few of you who think that people like me just need to work harder, am gonna find a group when its people like you keeping people like me from ascending any ranks and getting any recognition in HA.

Theres a sayin among the primary PvE characters to those who have FoW armor and green weapons worth 100k+ectos or whatever and just think they are the absolute gods of PvE and will make sure everyone else in the world of Tyria will know this. You were a noob once too. Its pretty simple really. I'm sure someone at some point showed you some compassion once, and it wouldnt kill yall to do the same. I just think that....with HA being not the primary part of the game but rather a decent sized percentage of it, need to chillax and realize...its a game. Let some of the newer ones join your group....teach them the builds. Let them have their chance to show themselves worthy of even being there. If they rage cause yall lost...fine....theres always more players, because again...its a game. So actually its the responsibility of those with the pretty lookin wolves and deer and whatnot to pass some of their skill and knowledge of the game to the newer players. It's not an inconvinience, it may take some time to explain yeah sure....but if you have the time to sit on GW and play for many many hours to accumulate such a rank then you must have more than enough time to explain why a holding build works or who runs the relic and who defends the relic and blah blah blah.

Now imo i think Guild Wars was designed for 50% pvp and 50% pve. They were made to tie together so that you unlock skills in pve and test them out in pve....put together what you feel is your best build and take it to pvp with many other people. I personally think Gaile and the development team does an outstanding job with all these updates and how they listen to the wants of most people. Biased or not theyre made to benefeit everyone. PvP'ers get their double faction double fame weekends and PvE'ers get the holiday festivals. Players from both will get the skill updates to make PvP easier and PvE easier whether its farming or missions or whatever. Just because maaaaaybe they do an update on PvP for this month doesnt mean theyre completely neglecting pve and vice versa. To get the full experience of what Guild Wars has to offer you will have to play both sides and see which one you like. And when everyone started they had their play style of choice so a lot went straight to PvP and a lot went straight to PvE and theres a few who are like myself that hover in between. Not hardcore one or the other but kinda taking in aspects of both. Imo thats what Guild Wars is about.

Sorry if this may be a bit long for everyone to read but after going through all the posts i felt i needed to have my say. If you wanna flame me feel free to im more than willing to back up everything i say including some of the grammar and typo errors. If anyones popcorn is left I'll take any you got ^_^

As a personal note that may not get read, Gaile i think your doing a great job for all the stress that millions of players must put on you keep up the good work and same with the rest of the dev team.

~Assassin

Firstly, I dont play GvG and I dont care about it. All I play is HA.

Secondly, for me HA is still just as enjoyable as it ever was, 6v6 didnt ruin it, heroes didnt ruin it. It is still just as competitive and difficult, and more importantly FUN to play.

And to your reply on the infuse monk part, I did not say the level of skill required has been lowered. I can play every class/ every build in the game with the same level of skill, and I can honestly say playing infuse monk in 8v8 HA was just plain ridiculous compared to EVERY other build I could play. I gave up playing infuse monk after rank 4 or 5 cos I hated it and the response I were getting from idiots in my group that had no clue what playing an infuser is like.

Spike teams wer imo THE problem with 8v8. When done correctly with a perfect spike they are undefeatable, a guild in one of my old alliances used to hold halls with R6+ blood spike for 10-20 consecs at a time, except they wouldnt let me join as I were still rank 4, even though i played blood spike completely fine (**Rank discrimination??**) lol.

Do you have a problem understanding english or are you just daft?

I said I enjoyed playing heroway just as much as with people. And when I played hero way, the team was always 3 heroes and 3 people, and my friends list was filling up faster then it ever did before, shoving that there were plenty of PEOPLE that enjoyed playing the game with me using hero way.

Are you seriously that stupid? Are you high?
Go into the HA section, and please tell me who is voting for 6v6 and who is voting against it. If you think Leteci, Bacon, Nurse, Jelly Beans, my entire guild and other various balanced players are voting 8v8 because then we would be able to efficiently run bloodspike/IWAY/oflame spike in and 8v8 environment, then you sir are clueless.
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@ lyra_song:

Of course rank is a direct measure of experience in HA. A rank 0 person will likely not know about different tactics during relics runs, the current metagame and effective counters to it, how to play altar maps in a way that suits your build, bodyblocking relics and ghostlies, when to kill a ghostly or push for a priest, how to split a team on relic runs, when it is safe to let a ghostly die and go for a recap, etc...
All these examples listed above are acquired through extensive play in HA, and the closest indication of the amount of play in HA is rank. Granted some people might pick most these things up very fast, but they are usually the ones that move up the ranks very fast.

Rank is not perfect though, simply because it can be farmed like any other title in guildwars. Even though farmable, you still learn a great bit playing games after game (even if you start off with C+SPACE or 321 spike), and a rank 6 player generally has more fundamental knowledge of HA that a rank 3 player, and a rank 3 more than a rank 1.
Example: You are a very proud rankless IWAY W/R that only knows how to C+SPACE and spam IWAY. You come up against a ranger spie and you get spiked down many times. Eventually you will realize that there are many areas on the map where the terrain can be used to your advantage to prevent being spiked down. Learning to use and counter line of sight spells and attacks on HA maps comes with experience in HA.

This is really what I meant when I was talking about "Last Day Dawns". A lot of first time (i.e. first characters) level 7s and 8s usually want to join our group and claim they are good enough, but they know very little about how the game works. They are usually the ones that will run ahead and start tanking, and they don't bring rezes or any other skills that are somewhat usefull, they don't kite monsters, and don't know what weapons/runs better suit their builds.
The thing is, these players think they are uber and can do much better than anyone else no matter what level they are. Do you see a pattern?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10096953

GWO pretty much the same thing as above.

HA ID1, been there lately?

Anyways Im not going to argue with anyone here about this when its as clearly shown what people want and know it was better .


I love Ensigns signature " Dont argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience", so true.

Ah yeah, ofc, all the balanced players love 6v6 since there is sooooo much balanced builds going around. I mean, you really got space in your builds to really make a balanced builds, you dont need a SoC, ward and extra condition removal on a non-monk, you're totally not being forced into running those primary/secondary professions since you dont require any of the skills I just said, you're totally free to run what you want and own all those gimmick n00bs who do bring that skills while they're useless sh*t.

Dude, 6v6 does not have space to run anything thats called balanced. And fame farming is way EASIER now then it was in 8v8 because every moron can cap an altar with that stupid SoC. You can barely run balanced builds without being outplayed by a build that can combine all the skills you HAVE to take and pure dmg-output *cough*ss-warder*cough*.

This wont change in 8v8, I agree on that, you still have to take that SoC and that ward of stability, but at least you DO have space to take something that DOES make your build unique and balanced.

Most balanced players want 8v8 back, gimmick players LOVE 6v6 because its a gimmick party with easy fame farming pwning people with overpowered builds.

You're making stupid arguments which you can't prove at all.

Don't try to compare the two, in PvE you are pretty much independant of other people (It's true folks, except for 2 missions in Factions, and 2 in Nightfall). You don't need a single person to hit lvl 20, and bam, you are on the same level as anyone else.

PvP is far different, to even get INTO HA you need a team, unranked folk are far too timid (from what I've seen) to speak out and seek others out of their kind due to their wish to go into a ranked team and learn from experience. Course that doesn't happen, and due to the snobby attitude of some of them (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOB), they just get disheartened and just leave for RA (In hopes of a gladiator title which is a sign of experience if anything). The really lucky ones are ones that have a friend to help them into a experienced HA guild, or those who played when HA was still tombs.

So don't compare PvE to PvP.

PvE = Independant
PvP = VERY Dependant on players

You are comparing a direct level difference vs something more arbitrary in rank.

Its not the same. Level is a DIRECT indication of what you can do PHYSICALLY with your character. A lvl 7 will not have the same amount of health, attribute points, or energy.

No amount of skill will make up for having a lot less health and attribute points.

Not a valid comparison at all.

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Two Warriors. both lvl 20, both have max armor (or appears to be), one has rank 3, one has no rank.

Which is the better player? Automatically we assume its the rank 3. But this assumption can be very wrong. It can also be right.

The rankless player could be a rank 2, only a few fights away from rank 3. But he cant show it and he could be lying.

But, if the rank 2 player is indeed just as good as the rank 3 player, his skill will make up for the lack of having a /bambi

Well, if the the 1 warrior is rank 2 and a bit away from r3 I don't see a problem anyway, just fight through that last few fame as allmost EVERYONE did when gaining their ranks.

However, if the difference in fame is bigger, then there's a BIGGER chance that the r3 warriors better knows what he's doing. Same counts for all ranks, when picking a r9 over a r6 then you have a bigger chance that that person knows what he's doing. And that's what it's all about. If I know that the rank 6 is a better player then the rank 9 then I would take the r6 ofcourse, but you do not know this in advance. And since people don't have time to test everyone on their skills they'll pick the r9.

I was simply comparing the experience required to complete a high level mission or quest in PvE to the experience required to join a decent team and have a succesful run in HA. If you don't have the experience, the experienced players simply won't take you because you NEED the experience in order to perform well as a team and reach your ultimate goal. You are at a disadvantage if you have people that do not perform as well due to their lack of experience, bringing the general team performance down, causing extreme frustration to teams striving to reach a goal in a competitive environment.
The people posting here are obviously a PvE crowd (not bashing) and I was simply making a comparison in order to relate to them.

That statement really shows exactly how much experience you have and how well you play and understand this game. Stating that you can play each and every profession and build in this game with the same level of skill is such a arrogant, deluded and downright amusing claim. Mayhap you do not know the difference between playing a class/build and playing it competitively, in which case that sheds even further light on how good you are.
As for the infusing, stopping spikes is a TEAM effort and it relies on each and every member of your team doing their part to slow down, interupt or prevent parts of the spike from going through. It is NOT simply a matter of hitting infuse at the right time.

I think even Kurt The Behemoth has a better understanding of HA, the metagame and the effects of the party size change. If you think FOTM was rampant and a problem back then, I suggest you do a little experiment... Make a team with 2 necro/monk and no jagged bones or spirits in it, and go in. You will find that 8/10 games your healers will function perfectly fine just making use of the dying things provided by the enemy.

Kurt > bhavv @ PvP

Assasin you say somone had to show us compassion and thats how we learnt and now its our duty to do the same. Well thats not true when I was rank 2 no rank 6 s came and showed me the ropes, I developed a friends list and played with the same people all the time and taugh oursleves, thats how it is meant to be done you are not meant to be spoon fed by higher ranks.

Also bhavv I am sure that you do enjoy 6v6 more than you enjoyed 8v8 but the reality is most players enjoyed 8v8 more and people only prefer 6v6 because they have found it easier.

This is where you are wrong. I don't know anyone that judges player skill based on rank, and those that do are generally retarded.
However, if you were to ask "Which is most likely to perform better in HA?" then the answer will most probably be the rank 3 player. I am sorry but 9 out of 10 times the higher ranked player knows more about HA than the lower ranked one (though it does reach a certain point where you can only know so much :P). I am saying this from experience in HA, and not pulling it out of my ass.

Ok well then since no one did anything for you then why not do it for someone else? at least 1 person. thats all im sayin. It would do more good then bad and you never know you may even stuble across someone with a knack for builds or a talent to it. Dont be afraid to experiemtn with players as much as you would with builds.

"Ah yeah, ofc, all the balanced players love 6v6 since there is sooooo much balanced builds going around. I mean, you really got space in your builds to really make a balanced builds, you dont need a SoC, ward and extra condition removal on a non-monk, you're totally not being forced into running those primary/secondary professions since you dont require any of the skills I just said, you're totally free to run what you want and own all those gimmick n00bs who do bring that skills while they're useless sh*t. " WELL SAID!

No one can ever argue that 6v6 has brough more creativity or originallity. Id rather go back to days of iway infested ha than be stuck with such limited scope for builds

The problem with trying to get a PvEr to relate is theres nothing in PvE that can show you have skill, except your performance in a mission.

PvP has gladiator, champion and hero titles. However in some form or another, all of these titles can be farmed, resulting in dilution of its meaning.

Also, stop assuming people here are of the PvE crowd. Its rather condescending. Assumption is the mother of all mistakes.


i would agree with you there, regardless of wether you pulled it our your ass or not. However we are still making assumptions.