skill nerf already?

If you think that Izzy caters for idiots when he balances skills then you are sorely, sorely mistaken. Some might argue that skill balances he has made in the past have been questionable, but I believe there are very few that could do that part of his job as well as the man himself.

I guess i am missing something here i am not trying to start any sort of flame wars or anything but how can you say that one effects the other more you cant it effects both the same

I am going to assume that English isn't your first language, seeing as your ability to comprehend fairly basic statements is lacking somewhat. I said that skill balance does not matter as much in PvE, not that it doesn't effect PvE as much.

Keep trying sparky.

if thats the case just ditch PvE all together and make this game more like unrealtournement thats PvP with guilds and all the goodies lol

Skill combinations. Player behavior vs. Programmed AI. Many reasons.

Example: A nerf or buff to Balthasar's Aura wont affect PvE much, because you guys dont bring it (AI forces monsters to scatter and thus no one brings it - and PvE, as we all know, is more effective when its organized and controlled in one area). However, it would greatly affect the use of smiters in PvP.

Lawl, JR wins this thread.


Anyways, to make this post useful, a reply to your opinion and suggestions:

Maybe make the AoE conditional as well... as in, 'if there are spirits nearby'... it can still be used to spike, but likely not to hurt the rest of the team as badly as it does now. There's no need to make it worse than Unnatural Signet

My idea for Blinding Surge? Make it work like Healing Burst and Star Burst. If it blinds in AoE, make the user lose an additional -5 energy. A minor difference, but it won't diminish the pressure as badly anymore

As for Shield of Absorption... make it 15 sec recharge or lose a second from the duration. It won't be killed.

Tough to tone this one down... even though SF deals nice damage, it IS an elite... but some people's suggestions to double the casting time, add exhaustion etc. are just ridiculous. Up to ANet to nerf it... but if it were up to me, I wouldn't touch it... it lacks deep wound

Oh, and to the guy who wanted to see SF work like Shatterstone... bad idea. There's a major difference between hex and condition removal. Read your suggestion again, and check the condition removal skills vs. the hex removal ones.

That, or lengthen the recharge (15 seconds?). Upping the cost won't change alot, they've got Soul Reaping indeed.

I still prefer an Axe Shock War, a shadow step+snare can't beat a kd, even though attentive monks will see the spike coming from miles away... but that's what's pressure is for.


@Sid Doog.
I used to be a hardcore PvE'er, until I actually wanted to see how good/crappy I was compared to other people. In the first months of GW, even PvE builds worked properly in most PvP arena's (I remember my 3 fame run when i entered HA for the first time... no elitism, nobody asked about my build). Nowadays I kill time by messing around with builds in RA, HB's, CM's and AB's, if I don't feel like playing PvE.

Time has passed, but the premise of Guild Wars that PvP IS the main part of the game hasn't changed, and balances will affect the entire gaming community of both PvE and PvP. EoE got nerfed a while ago to 'fix' Alliance Battles, which indeed affected alot of PvE players (Urgoz' Warren was made a bit tougher... though not much), but that's not much of an argument... just an example that hardly proves anything.

Mike is correct when saying that PvP will always have an unknown factor, namely your opponents. This makes the most important part of GW exciting, sometimes refreshing in case you meet a new build and crushed by it during the first encounter, then get back at them later in the match.
In PvE, you'll nearly always know what you're up against: the same area, the same mobs spawning at the same spots. This is also why Mesmers rock in PvE.



OR... you could quit playing GW and play some single player game?
Or work at Anet, kill some skills and make all the hardcore PvP'ers quit, noes!

If you bought GW for the PvE, just enjoy it with what you have. PvP is what GW has always been about, yet Anet will continue to make PvE content, and add new continents with each chapter. They leave it to the player what he/she will play.
Since you're a hardcore PvE'er, don't even look at the PvP scene. Yes, PvP has the most effect on what skills will be changed, but that's just the way it is. Adapt, don't whine.

I personally think he caters for people who's builds no longer work against new skills and wont change so they scream for a nerf.

Then you are personally wrong.

Now why try to attack me when i was have some good convo i guess you felt threatened ?? thats not what i am doing here just asking ?"s is all



I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with someone about a video game i was just trying to state an opinion is all but i guess you have to always be right well have at it sparky you win


P.S keep tryin

You posted something that was incorrect, I corrected you. You misunderstood what I was saying so I corrected you again.

Welcome to the internet.

OR... you could quit playing GW and play some single player game?
Or work at Anet, kill some skills and make all the hardcore PvP'ers quit, noes!

If you bought GW for the PvE, just enjoy it with what you have. PvP is what GW has always been about, yet Anet will continue to make PvE content, and add new continents with each chapter. They leave it to the player what he/she will play.
Since you're a hardcore PvE'er, don't even look at the PvP scene. Yes, PvP has the most effect on what skills will be changed, but that's just the way it is. Adapt, don't whine.[/QUOTE] how am i whineing about anything just stateing an opinion,and if you read 99.99% of these threads it is always the hardcore PvP'ers that are whineing so why not just have them adapt??? just a ? is all

Can we RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stop derailing the thread?

>.>

This thread is being killed... JR, perhaps you should put a stop to this one...

Also, as a law student, it's hilarious to see all the fallacies people use... try bringing some arguments instead of 'Poisoning the well'. JR is a respected person on this forum (by most people ), and knows what he's talking about (most of the time, but now, imo, he is.).

And stop using Ad Hominem arguments; return to your PvE shell, please. I don't think I actually need to say my own arguments to prove that your comments here haven't really helped this thread, you're basically making an idiot out of yourself. (No, I'm not flaming... I just want to prevent an escalation of this entire thing.).

Read what you have said/typed: Only taunting without any real reasons other than your statement that you love PvE. Well too bad, son: Guild Wars isn't all about one guy. There's more than 3 million copies sold out there, and you won't change alot. Especially as an admitted PvE'er.

[/judge mode]

EDIT:

I rest my case.

Oh, and stop trying.

PvE'ers out # PvP'ers hands down so this game has a much bigger PvE base ok so what who cares, does what people type here affect you in real life lol man i cant figure you people out like to dish but cant take it i guess

So this will be my last response to this thread and i do appolgize if you think i highjacked it or taunted anyone if i did sorry carry on

Base Rate Fallacy. Not a good argument at all... you might as well say all Germans are evil because 60 years ago some very naughty people started a war, it's basically the same.

And a bit of the Argumentum Ad Populum. It's not that there's a majority, that they're always right.

STOP TRYING.

The only thing I agree with you so far is the fact that this thread has derailed badly. So back to what this thread was made for, or lock it, please.

PS: sorry if the WWII reference might be harsh for some people on this forum, I just wanted to give an absurd analogy that cannot be denied (though it's actually a fallacy as well, but shh); mods can delete that part if they want.

Depends on your point of view I suppose, all I see is stubborn people in PvP refusing to think anything but cookie builds and not actually thinking about why other teams keep kicking their arse, so they just call for a nerf.

No one is calling for a nerf, we are calling for a:

S K I L L B A L A N C E

..as in EQUALITY of skills & no broken or rediculousy overpowered skills (IE Blinding Surge, SF, Spoil Vic, Dervishness, etc) - which would encourage LESS cookie cutting and button mashing and unoriginality.

Ps. No high end guilds in GvG use cookie cutter in their builds. Ever. We let that fall to PvE'ers and HA'ers (IE, GROUP NEEDS BIPPER AND TANK AND MONK spam FTL). The cookie cutter builds were initially made Anet @ the PvP creation screen so PvE'ers wouldnt look completely retarded when they tried to PvP.

pfft whats the big deal with sandstorm

all u have to do is move <-<

is it so hard to do?

i love that skill >.<

Yes, but in KOTH maps it's too overpowered. You need to keep your Hero on the alter to cap. Moving is not an option.

LOL Equality, wouldnt be much of a game then would it, as you'd be there for bloody hours.

I thought the whole point of PvP was to beat your opponent by having an advantage skill wise.

Just going to pop in here and say that your immense logic is both bulletproof and awe-inspiring. I am greatly enlightened by your words of wisdom.

- Swiffle

The point of PVP is to be able to combat other guilds/teams/players by using PLAYER, repeat PLAYER skill, not to be assraped by a team running 8x copies of an overpowered character skill.

And thus skills are adjusted in PVP accordingly to keep this philosophy. Yes while some skills ie. spirit bond WERE ment with only pve in mind (see solo UW monk) these are very few and far between. An imbalanced skill will GREATLY affect PVP far more than it will impact PVE. I for one, dont want to see a tournament won due to someone running an imbalanced skill because it worked well against monster AI...

First off I would like to thank you for your intelligent reply to my post.

Second off I think this sparked the conversation in the wrong direction. I had made a small comment on how and in this special case I think that jagged bones is a problem in the pvp format of the game, especially the abuse you now see in HA. The skill is quite unique and more or less at first glance(if you haven't seen the skill already) there is an evil grin most necromancer players will smile about. It's a great skill, but in my honest opinion it is too powerful for the fact that was mentioned. Soul Reaping. I love it how it is in the PvE format for the fact that, not exactly everything leaves a corpse behind. Thus, you can keep minions up even if you have limited external resources.

The game is called Guild Wars. This is a game that will always eventually lead to the PvP format. Whether you are a PvE fan or PvP fan there is one thing in common, skill is determined on the guild teamwork to defeat other guilds. PvE is repetitive~This is not insulting it~ It's a fact.

I just wanted this endless conversation to end(, I know I'm contradicting myself).

Now back to your reply on my post JR, I have no problem with Spoil Victor's Mana cost+cooldown. I just want possibly upto 25% of its damage taken away. Blood builds in the past OoB, OoP. Are usually support to some kind, I like the offensiveness this gives althought I don't care for how it wrecks Attacking classes, and Spellcaster classes in a way I would imagine a mesmer doing so, with alot more damage.

Shadow Prison to me is a huge problem, like I said the snare power of this skill is ridiculous. Honestly I like that warriors even use dismember now, and this encourages it... although I hate how it is abused like a red headed step child. It is too powerful for its mana and effect. IMO. I try my best to look on the scale of two skills we can all relate to: Sprint, Charge(Elite). These skills are similar and one is more powerful then the other. I believe if an elite is more powerful then this on a comparison scale, it is too powerful. For me this is something the dev's should look more upon.

I actually did not even think of shield of absorbtion, that is possibly another skill the dev's should look into. Although I think the mana cost, cooldown, and effect are balanced. I am interested in how you would change it.

Again I did not try to bring PvE into reason to balance skills, It's just that if this skill gets nerfed I am just in sorrow for the necromancers using it to just have a good chance in some PvE missions/Quests/Group Farmings. I just think that this skill atm is fair in one environment and not the other.

EDIT: Also ty for the PM's about how I think Divine Favor should be changed. I do think this will make monks more effective into what they were planned to be "Holy Spellcasters". Smiting Alone does not justify them. I think also that monks in general should profit way more from Divine Favor then they do atm. I will reply to you all shortly.

Nope. Posting a thread on a PvP subject in a PvE forum makes PvPers post in said thread and then flames inevitably start.

...The "E" in PvE stands for easy? Doesn't it? I still pve when I need gold, and there are a million ways to abuse the current skill list and there will be a million more after the skill balance. If you think you absolutely HAVE to be that one guy in an 8 man party that spams Searing Flames in order to beat something, well, try to get better ok? There's likely a build that could solo that group.

...do I smell something burning?

Glad to hear it as most ppl I team up with are both inspired and enlightened by the logic behind my builds I run

About the issue with Blinding Surge, my suggestion is making it 10 energy cost, if you are under the effects of an enchantment you gain 1...3...4 energy.

Makes air attunement more attactive too wouldn't you think? still the spammable lightning strike damage and less viable for abusing it as a secondary elementalist.

(forgive me if I forgot something entirely that would kind of make this too powerfull still, but it's been tired and I kind of just need some rest...)

g'd nite!

They should just make Bsurge 10e and 5-8 recharge. That way it isn't so over-powered.

Searing Flames. Elite Spell. 15e, 1c, 5r. Target blah blah damage, blah blah Burning for 5 seconds.

Means you can't just spam SF, gives people time to remove the Burning. Still very strong, now just not so strong.


As for other skills, I suppose Jagged Bones could do with something changed, as it's just a bit too strong in HA. I also think Spiritual Pain could have a lower damage amount, or just a lower AoE damage amount.

Everybody and their dog seems to have an opinion on spells and want to nerf whatever they have trouble with. Also pvp and pve = bad marriage, they should get divorced as soon as possible. Somebody please think about the children lol.

Now that Ele's can solo farm UW - expect some major nerfing Elemental's.......

again?
In all fairness i think Ele's have been hit with the nerflaser far too much by now.
Why do you see so many eles in NF compared with Factions?
Becoz now they're actually worth something again.

Just end the euro-spike builds, I'm just so tired of seeing the same games over and over...

im looking forward to the update, as long as they don't make any skills useless im fine with it, and they shouldn't go that far.

Because the Elonian Esprit shop has all the latest and skimpiest dresses, actually.

Hehe nice one...

Too bad that very same Esprit shop sucks in Necro clothing

Twisting Fangs is an insane skill, yes, but there is no reason to nerf it. It allows for easy cover of conditions, which is why I follow Temple Strike with it. A monk removing conditions will remove bleeding, no big deal. The Deep Wound, Dazed, and Blind stay, leaving me able to obliterate my foe.

People would go back to using flash. 10e alone is too strong of a nerf already to justify taking it over the non-elite skill.

Remove aoe blind + maybe increase recharge to 7 gogogo.

Making skills into complete trash isn't the point of nerfing. I realize you probably hate SF as much as I hate avatar of grenth, but nerfing it as hard as ether renewal isn't the answer.

3s recharge, maybe chop 1 second off burning (that would put it at 6, I think). Anything more would cause it to fall out of use. Sandstorm is better than SF anyway and earth line offers support whereas fire offers nothing other than SF. (omgomgomg meteor shower!) Put that fact and your nerf together and you'll never see a fire ele outside of AvA and Random Arenas again.

I fail to understand something in all the requests of skill nerf for PvP.

People ask to nerf everything: Searing Flames, Spoil Victor, Spiritual Pain, Shield of Absorption, Blinding Surge, Sandstorm (lol), avatars, Rampage as One and all skills you can imagine.

Everyone has his own hated skill he wants to see destroyed.

My question is: is there currently in PvP a winning build based around one or more of those skills, which wins ALWAYS and cannot be countered in any possible way?

If there is, the skill or skills are clearly unbalanced and need to be corrected.

But if this is not true, what is the PvPer idea of a balanced game?
And what are the requirements for a PvPer to consider the game "perfectly balanced"?
I fail to understand this, and I'd like to have an answer from experienced PvPers.
And also would like to know what is their "vision" of PvP, what kind of game they want to play.


My personal opinion.

I think that most of PvPers don't want to admit that, whereas PvE is killing the same monsters that spawn in the same number in the same locations and use the same skills, PvP is playing rock/paper/scissors.

You start a PvP match with whatever build, pressure, euro-spike, SF spammer, Iway, or no fotm but a perfectly balanced team, but whatever build or not build you choose, no one can ensure that you win for sure.
If you are lucky to find an opposing team which is unprepared against you, you win.
If you are not lucky and the opposing team has counters against you, you lose.
STOP.

Instead in my opinion most of PvPers think that PvP for them has to be like PvE (in which you always win ... ehm nearly always ) and they must win always.
When they find an opposing team that beats them using whatever build, they start to whine and call for nerfs, accusing some "unbalanced skills" to be the reason of their defeat.

Wake up, PvP is rock-paper-scissors, for sure you have to skilled but there is no possibility to win always against whatever opponent.

as has been said many many many many many times, just because a skill can be countered does not mean it cannot be over-powered.

if you were running a balanced build and that were truly the case, then ANet will have completely failed in balancing the game.

Thread MVP (in the "logic" division):